I recently learned of Karen Klein, the 68-year-old bus monitor who was verbally abused by seventh grade boys, and I thought "they must have not gotten spanked enough or at all when they were kids!"
It seems to be a theme with me, lol. Anytime I see a child, teenager, or even an adult (Lindsay Lohan) act out in such a disrespectful manner I'll say they must have not gotten spanked.
Last year I got into a back-and-forth debate with someone, on YouTube, about whether it is okay to spank your child. She seemed horrified at the idea and said it was wrong, because you're teaching the child that problems should be solved with violence. I stuck by my view that kids deserve to get smacked on their behind if they are being bad. I also think timeouts are useless.
What do you think?
I don't know if it's as cut-and-dry as spanking or not spanking...to me it's more that kids have little to no consequence for sh-tty behavior. It should be easy to outsmart a child, since nothing they do is all that much different from the crap we all tried to pull as kids, or our parents when they were kids, etc... But I guess everybody wants their kids to "like" them, which is NOT the same as being respected.
The little a-holes in this particular case won't understand the full impact of what they put this woman through, until somebody finds a way to affect them in the same way. Because more than likely, their parents aren't gonna do jack about this.
On a side note, it seems to me from when Klein was interviewed on TV, she's been getting grief from people just about her whole life. So on the bright side, she's got a half-million coming her way from a charity started in her name.
What works for one child may not work for another. Completely ruling out spanking as an option is just as dumb as resorting to it exclusively.
A couple of swats with a paddle that sting but leave no lasting marks isn't going to harm a child.
Yes and often. It'd be nice if we could spank other people's kids when their parents won't do it first...and then spank the parents. :D
^What he said
I was spanked and I think I turned out OK. That is debateable of course! haha
Humans must communicate with each other in order to achieve reasonable order and progress on whatever objectives are set before them. In the case of children who are emerging from infants, and through to the late teen years, there are occasions when the children do not understand the language usually spoken by adults. They do not understand the “why†in some situations, and therefore they don’t abide by the rules or the instructions set by the adult in charge of the classroom or other environment.
Fundamentally, some children do not understand the language being used, or what is expected of them by the situation within which they are acting out their behavior for the day.
And this is where the idea of spanking, or perhaps a better word and method, "paddling" comes into play. Paddling is a form of communication. Whereas words do not make sense to some kids, paddling does. Words might not get their attention, but paddling does. Paddling, by way of the warm feeling on their bottom, encourages them to focus on the objectives for which the teacher was hired, perhaps the objectives set before the class, which usually concerns something about learning about the world, something about learning to have self-discipline and respect for others. And if there is ever a time to convey to kids that there is a thing called reasonable behavior, responsible behavior, that chaos in behavior will only cause them problems down the road, that disrespect to others is not appropriate, that bullying is not good, and that there is order in the universe, the time is when they are kids. Unfortunately the only language some kids can understand while conveying this knowledge is paddling.
Paddling should be used sparingly, as some children and teens might have unfortunate deficiencies of the mind, or temporary problems at home causing problems at school. Therefore, there are occasions when paddling is not appropriate.
However, there are occasions when paddling is definitely appropriate. I still remember when, during both Elementary School and Junior High School, I would be disruptive in the class, or disrespectful to the teacher. I recall the paddlings I received. My bottom became warm after several hits from the paddle with the holes. I understood that language, the language of paddling, and even then, I knew that it was good for me.
Most kids and students never exhibit behavior which would warrant paddling. But there are some who do need it, and because they have not been, they have never been encouraged to wake up and engage the objectives for which they are in school.
Therefore, if some of you parents and others who think it horrible to paddle some of our kids who know only that language, if you wonder about the dropouts, the insolence, the disrespect, the lack of discipline, and the ignorance possessed by the kids who never have been paddled when they should have been, look in the mirror to find a major cause of it. You have failed your kids, and other kids, by withholding the use of the only language they could understand. Your lack of understanding of some of the dynamics of human psychology, your shortsightedness, your ignorance, is one cause of the lack of discipline in our schools.
To this day, I am confident in saying that the paddlings I received was very much needed as a method of encouraging me to wake up and think more responsibly about our classroom objectives. I needed those paddlings. If I could, I would embrace the teacher and assistant principle who paddled me, and tell them how much I appreciate the fact that they cared about me and my future. In some measure, the use of the language of paddling improves a child's ability to understand the language of words.
In my opinion, the current outright forbidding of paddling kids in the schools is one of the major factors which ultimately results in the lack of discipline in our schools, the lack of good morale, and the inability to keep good teachers who flee the semi-chaos which is a consequence having so few tools to encourage discipline amongst the kids.
Again, there are times when paddling is not the best action, but there are times when it is the only and best choice, because it is a persuasive language, easily understood by most kids. Withholding the language of paddling in some instances is hurting the kid who needs it for his or her own progress in education and self-discipline.
Humans of all ages need a reasonable level of order in their lives, and they need enough knowledge of what is expected of them so that they can make the best decisions about their own behavior. Language is the best method to convey this information. It is unfortunate that so many of us wish to ban one of the best forms of language from some of the kids who need it desperately so that they can become responsible and productive citizens.
I summary, and I must be honest, those parents and others, who, by some gross ability to achieve the most stupid decision to ban paddling entirely from our schools, are fools, big fools, and they should be held responsible for the lack of discipline in our schools, and for a big chunk of the failures in our educational system.
Discipline? Look at what is socially acceptable in riding an airplane these days, when I was a kid, we had to wear a sportcoat and loafers on the plan, now some of the people on a plane are wearing a bikini and are so foul mouthed, you'd swear you were sitting near a drill sergeant.
Times have changed and not for the better in how we as human beings treat other human beings. My grandfather used to look at us and we knew we had better mind our manners or all hell was going to break loose. The fear was what kept us in line. Today, there is no fear instilled with kids, or little of it. Yes Ma'am, No Sir, are these southern traits still being taught at home? So basic, but so forgotten.
Spanking is fine between consenting adults in the privacy of their bedrooms, but it's hardly the kind of thing children should be involved in ;)
Quote from: Tacachale on June 23, 2012, 10:17:52 PM
Spanking is fine between consenting adults in the privacy of their bedrooms, but it's hardly the kind of thing children should be involved in ;)
Oh.....thanks Tacachale.... how clumsy of me. I meant of course, "paddling" throughout my post. Spanking is different, as it is a more of a contact sport, and is more appropriate for adults. I changed all the references to "paddling". I was focusing on the primary issue of child discipline in the schools, forgetting the rather subtle differences between spanking and paddling. Yes...... paddling is best used in this case.
That's an insightful take on, Stephen. I definitely agree that hitting becomes wrong when it leads to brutality
I have three children. One swift pop in the butt hasn't hurt any of them. As an earlier poster said, children don't always understand the language. You cannot reason with a child.
At some point, labor will be used with my children as punishment. I can remember as a teenager coming home and there would be a truck load of mulch or dirt on my driveway a day or two after doing something stupid. My dad would point to the shovel, the wheel barrow and where the mulch/dirt was to go. After a couple hours (and a few blisters) you got the point.
Quote from: Tamara-B on June 23, 2012, 10:16:41 AM
What do you think?
I'm in favor of paddling your child ONLY if one cannot find the cat o' nine tails...
"Should children be spanked"?
Yes. Whip their a$%^ss so that they remember something bad will happen the next time they act up. Its called a deterrent and has never killed anyone. Its really not that complicated. It has worked well in this country right up until the latest generation of free love parents started spawning offspring. Its what this entitled generation needs more of. A lot of these whippings are especially needed in the Riverside/Avondale neighborhoods.
Quote from: KEGreene1 on July 05, 2012, 10:56:16 AM
My dad would point to the shovel, the wheel barrow and where the mulch/dirt was to go.
I keep somewhere between 10-15 bags of mulch that need to be constantly moved. ;D
Whip em, Whip em good!!
Devo, 1980s
Quote from: stephendare on July 05, 2012, 05:08:44 PM
Quote from: RMHoward on July 05, 2012, 05:00:46 PM
Whip em, Whip em good!!
Devo, 1980s
Devo.
One of my favorite bands! Based on the idea that we as a species are de evolving. (going backwards)
Ironic, considering.
They are also big in the Church of the Subgenius.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Devo#1975.E2.80.931980
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Church_of_the_SubGenius
Funny you would quote them, you know, on a cosmic level.
PRABOB, dear brother in slack!
I was a "new" convert in '94... Ol' RMHoward here should know that we don't spank our children.. we eat them.. with fava beans...
I thought we solved the paddling issue. Okay... a few more words.
The parents who proudly say they never spanked their children are able to enjoy this condition because they probably were quite above average in communicating with their children. The children they delivered to the schools were very fortunate in having communication and social skills which allowed for good classroom behavior. Teachers love them, and certainly don’t have occasion to wish paddling upon them. There are many kids like this, who of course have no place in the paddling world.
But the parents who failed miserably to communicate verbally and calmly with their children, who perhaps avoided their children, delivered to the school a child having a wild nature, a child with no self-discipline, with no social skills, and no communication skills. What is the teacher to do? The child does not understand language or words, nor does it slow down enough to focus on the meaning of words. The child is semi-chaotic, impulsive, disruptive, and in need of intensive care, which the teacher is unable to give because of the needs of the other thirty kids. Thank you parents, stupid and uncaring parents, for delivering such a disruptive kid to the classroom. You deserve a black star, plus a paddling.
Not being able to engage the wild child with words and calm communication, it would be quite appropriate in my view if the teacher had the tool of paddling to gradually force the semi-chaotic kid to slow down and think….. which is a good and necessary thing to do in a classroom.
My somewhat antisocial behavior as a kid was a direct result of my being around an alcoholic and abusive father who almost never communicated directly and calmly to me. I am of course not alone. Therefore I was like a wild child, seeing little order or structure, deficient in social or communication skills, and not inclined to listen to rules and abide by them. The occasional paddling in school began to impress upon me that there must be some order in the universe, that there was a right way to behave. For me, the occasional paddling caused me to stop my chaotic behavior, and to begin to listen to the words spoken by the teacher and other adults. In my opinion some parents should be paddled along with their kids, as they are in most cases the root cause of the child’s need for paddling.