"Welcome to the regular scheduled meeting..."
Happy Tuesday and Happy City Council Meeting!!
Despite my better sense, I am here. Now if there is another bomb threat I am stating now I will be leaving!
Almost a full house tonight. Random empty seats here and there but for the most part the chamber is full this evening. Several different groups of people this evening. More in attendance than just those in support of or against the anti-discrimination bill 2012-296. Joost opens correcting people's thoughts that there will be a vote on bill 2012-296 this evening, he declares the possibility that there will be a vote in two weeks depending on the Rules Committee and RCD/PHS committee meetings next week.
I will apologize ahead of time, the tv's are not lowered this evening; therefore, I cannot see the entire council's name plates (and i have not learned all of them) nor will I be able to see the speakers at the podium. I can say there are four council members absent tonight.
Could be a calm show tonight, but I will update you if anything interesting, educational or inspiring takes place!!
Prior to the meeting today, a group of ex-mayors and City Council presidents formed outside of the council chambers to formally support the legislation banning discrimination in the LGTB community.
Here are some youtube videos going up:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4uxmDYAoQvM&feature=youtu.be&a
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Od-i3VG41eY&feature=youtu.be&a
Kim Daniels makes a presentation honoring Jacksonville native, Tim Tebow. Congratulating him on achieving success and his continuous philanthropic efforts. Kim Daniels states this this hits close to her heart as she has two sons that have super bowl rings (really?). She does throw in there that when her house was broken into at the last council meeting two weeks ago one of the rings were stolen.
"24 year old football player from Jacksonville, FL is bringing passion back. What is most exciting to us as a city is that we get to claim him. We know he is a Jacksonville guy."
Stephen Joost makes a presentation honoring The Bolles School Bulldog football team for winning the state 4A class championship. This is their 11th state title, 9 of them since 1989, led by Corky Rogers. Joost graduated from Bolles and states, he plays golf with Mr. Rogers. Crescembeni also went to Bolles and played football for a couple years, regretfully he was never asked to attend a CC meeting as his team never won a State title.
Fun Fact: Tim Tebow did not choose to go to Bolles which adds some irony to these presentations.
2012-290 is a bill that gives $1,456,871 to the Wallace Foundation to develop after school programs. Not for the after school programs but to figure out the best way to create in school and after school programs. Council seemed torn on the bill yet it was passed. Joost, Yarborough and Crescembeni amongst those against using this money. Crescembeni states, "I think there are better ways to spend our money since our budget is already so tight." Crescembeni, I will say it for you. It just got tighter.
Meredith Stevenson: First speaker this evening. She believes the passing of bill 2012-296 will allow pedophiles to use public restrooms and alter the safety of young girls and boys. "Are you willing to open that door for crimes like pedophilia to take place by passing this bill?"
I must say, I am slightly confused how we got on pedophilia already. Perhaps, I am wrong and this meeting will be nothing but calm.
Alan Stevenson: Assumed husband of Meredith. Going back to the confrontation between Ms. Mead and Don Redman last Tuesday. He asks, "How would this ordinance have stopped any of those 30 something acts of discrimination?"
Stated, nearly 95% of all large cities in America have already passed this bill.
Woman takes the stand in honor of a young boy that was killed by an unchained dog. Asks the council to implement a tethering ordinance, so that adequate dog care is forced and less children are bitten or possibly killed by an unchained dog. Crescembeni states he will personally follow up with it.
Paul Zinc: Founder of Providence School. States people have moved across the country to live here based on our moral/traditional values this community represents. Therefore 2012-296 will have a negative economic impact on our city. Zinc believes traditional communities attract traditional families.
Ashley, did I just read it's a request for 1.5 million to the wallace foundation just to figure out the best way to create after school programs?! >:(
Tonya Hilcox: Another woman saying, she is worried about the safety of our children and young people. Worried about the impact the free expression of the LGBT community will have on the community. She is worried that children will be victims of pedophilia if this bill is passed.
I'm sorry but straight men and women can be pedophiles as well, right?
Dentist from the beach claims the passing of this bill will affect insurance rates and malpractice law-suits will soar. Joost comments that if this is true then there should be empirical evidence showing Jacksonville to have the lowest insurance rates and amount of law-suits in the state, assuming it is true we are the last big city in Florida to pass this bill.
(Side note: People should really be declared sane before being allowed to speak at these things.)
A bio-chemically alter man takes the stand. Revealing herself to be a man that chose to alter his body to be a woman. Points out there is nothing wrong with the gender expression she is doing. Implores people to remember this is about gender expression not sexual expression. This bill does not allow genitalia to walk the streets of Jacksonville legally but allows a person to choose which gender they affiliate with.
Quote from: TheCat on June 12, 2012, 06:28:38 PM
Ashley, did I just read it's a request for 1.5 million to the wallace foundation just to figure out the best way to create after school programs?! >:(
TheCat, yes. The answer as to what it does was not clear. Crescembeni made it sound as if that money will be used to employ 2 full time workers and several part time workers for several years to research and create adequate after school programs to be implemented in the city in the future. Not 1.5 million dollars to be used right now for after school programs. Weird, right? Joost, Yarborough, Crescembeni and Lumb were against it but it passed.
Don Redman asks a man how he can explain that he was born a homosexual and born a Christian based on the Bible. Gauntlets are thrown and interpretation varies. The woman behind me just said, "I didn't know they fought about the Bible at a CC meeting. I didn't know they were allowed to fight at all." Kim Daniels takes Redman's defense arguing also with the man (I'm sorry I don't know how to spell your name, Swatsky? Swatvy?) about Romans chapter 1. Argument ends with speaker and Daniels stating they loved each other.
Beth Heath: The idea of taking away rights from one group to give them to another is unconstitutional. Tells the council they are wrong if they think Duval County voters elected them to change one word of the constitution or the HRO.
(It is becoming alarmingly aware that government classes in high school and undergraduate classes are not doing an adequate job of teaching the people how our government works.)
Finally!!!! Someone points out there is no correlation between the LGBT community and pedophilia! And that she hopes she can guarantee there is no one in this room that think pedophilia is an acceptable act.
A lot of the room has cleared out. The majority of what I can see are wearing white shirts, indicating the individuals support of the bill as asked by the Jacksonville Committee for Equality.
How is a Council Member allowed to use the bible in an argument of human rights?
Redman's questioning sounds like it should be at some place other than Council.
Bottom line ( as I stated before ) Redman and Daniels in particular are going to fight this bill tooth and toenail and are just displaying total ignorance. This is NOT CHURCH! It is about a bill in City Council about a certain group of human's rights, and the bible or references there in should have ZERO ZILCH NOTHING NADA to do with proceedings in Council. If these two people cannot get this through their heads , they have no place in Council. Period.
"Don Redman asks a man how he can explain that he was born a homosexual and born a Christian based on the Bible. "
pretty easy answer: "God created mankind in his own image" (Genesis 1:27)"
A little reverse psychology, " the supporting sides argument is one of emotion and good intentions. They use words like "equality" and "fairness" which make it hard to fight against this amendment." Lawyer, Mr Cannon points out that this bill will not stop or allow legal action to be taken for most of the types of discrimination that have been shared at the meetings. Asks the council to take a look at the wording being considered and throw it out and start over.
So, in an attempt to not be redundant and repeat the things already said tonight or that have been said in the last month is becoming a tedious task. The same arguments are being thrown around, the same questions are being asked. We are at a stand still, a grid lock if you may. Both sides appear annoyed, angry and insulted and the Council appears border-line condescending towards everyone as most keep leaving the room and many have not asked a single question, Crescembeni, Daniels, and Redman seem to be the three that are the most decided and yet they are asking all of the questions. A valiant attempt to trip someone up and sway the rest of the group to their side.
fwiw... if you are reading the news, there appears to be more of a correlation between priests and pedophilia then pretty much anything and pedophilia.
Quote from: movedsouth on June 12, 2012, 08:00:46 PM
fwiw... if you are reading the news, there appears to be more of a correlation between priests and pedophilia then pretty much anything and pedophilia.
Thank you!!!! Ugh! It's so frustrating!
Is the live blog still going on?
A male 4th grade teacher takes the stand, recants the story of a letter his principal received stating, he was acting gay at a target. Speaker states, I dont see how, perhaps I squealed over a Liza Minnelli CD.
Subsequently following this letter the man was made to "come out" to his school. Imagine being made to explain your sexual orientation to an auditorium of children.
A man takes the stand, He states God is warning us. Like in New Orleans there was a gay pride parade days before Hurricane Katrina, the worst natural disaster to ever shake America. And now in Duval County the beginning of hurricane season welcomed us with TS Beryl the same week all this talk began, and it has not stopped raining since. 'This is our warning.'
Quote from: RexMontana on June 12, 2012, 08:05:25 PM
Is the live blog still going on?
Yes, I am still here. If you read a couple of posts above. I am attempting to avoid repeating the things that have been said over and over again in the last couple of weeks. And as at the CC meetings there is time for public comment a lot of the comments are redundant, rambling or ranting or things that we have covered several times which is why this particular strand does not have as many comments. In short, I am trying not to bore!
I'm blown away. Jacksonville's reputation as a backwoods redneck town is fully deserved based on this city council meeting. Wow.
This is a first, "You are bringing death to our doorway."
Lots of pastors taking the stand tonight. Lots of out of towners as well. There are about 50 people left tonight, and still most are wearing white shirts.
Up next will be the discussion of the bill at the Rules Committee and the RCD/PHS meetings next week. The Rules Committee meets on Monday at 930 and the RCD/PHS Committee meets on Tuesday at 2pm. These are the two meetings that have been assigned the bill so that they Council may make a more educated and well rounded decision. Each committee is open to the public and is held at City Hall in the CC Chamber. These meetings last week were extremely rewarding and insightful and you can read about what took place at those meetings under the "News" portion of the forum. Hopefully, Bishop learns from Gulliford and both Committee leaders will offer a forum that is equal to both sides.
After that, hopefully, the bill will be voted on at the next CC Meeting two weeks from now. We will update you the moment we find out if that is concrete or not.
****** In the meantime, I would like to hear more from our members. How do you foresee this ending? Do you think the LGBT community will prevail or will the religious and economic worries trump their passion? If it does not pass what will happen next? If it does, how will the religious organizations of the city retaliate?
As well as, how do you think the members have weighed the information they have been given to make their decision?
And if someone could school me a bit. If the bill is not passed, I assume it will not be the end of the attempt to add the LGBT community to the Anti-Discrimination bill. What will be done next? And how long does a council member have to wait to resubmit it?
Quote from: simms3 on June 12, 2012, 08:41:18 PM
I'm blown away. Jacksonville's reputation as a backwoods redneck town is fully deserved based on this city council meeting. Wow.
With regard to particular Council Members, Simms, I could not agree with you more! That these 3 council members are putting up this much of a stink is Preposterous at the very least. This mindset keeps us in the dark ages. I truly wish these individuals could be removed from the positions. They are contributing zero.
I think it will be passed with , particularly Daniels and Redman kicking and screaming and thumping their Bibles all the way.
That is it for me tonight. Forgive me for leaving early, but some of this is hard to take over and over again. The various feelings evoked at these meetings is overwhelming. There has been an argument going on all week about where do Jacksonville go wrong? My answer, when we allowed people to stand in a room and condemn another because they are different. When we forgot the person sitting next to you is a human being despite what they do. And when we decided one way is the right way.
I would love to hear your thoughts, fears, worries, or critique. Thank you for your continuous contribution to my blogs.
Good night.
Quote from: Timkin on June 12, 2012, 08:50:31 PM
I think it will be passed with , particularly Daniels and Redman kicking and screaming and thumping their Bibles all the way.
Well lets break it down. Shall we? There are 19 council members. We know, well I think we know, for sure Daniels, Redman, Yarborough, Bishop, Lumb, and Lee are unequivocally no's. Joost may be in that group as well. Crescembeni appears to be in support, Gulliford might be. And Jones of course is a yes. Schellenberg appears on the fence. That leaves Boyer, Gaffney, Brown, Holt, Carter, and Love that have not that I can remember spoken out at all on the matter.
So we know for sure there are 6 maybe 7 members in opposition. How many have to vote yes for it to pass?
While I was responding Yarborough announced we are on our last public speaker for the night.
It takes 10 votes to pass an ordinance. In the rotunda before the meeting, I heard someone say the expect the vote to be 10-9, and don't know which way it will go.
I left a few minutes before the last speaker - those seats aren't the most comfortable. Interesting meeting ... and who knew there was a National Sodomy Day, as one of the preachers announced.
Why would Lumb not go along with the bill. How does it affect him?
Was the whole CC meeting supposed to be about this one bill? Or is there other order of business actually related to normal CC functions? I understand the bill is important and needs to pass, but this should have been a quicker pass with the business community making sure it gets through alright...and then on to other business. At least that's how I envision a CC meeting should go.
Have we heard much from the biz community on this? Aside from the masses/CC/LGBT/preachers creating a firestorm on both sides, where has the usually more rational and pragmatic business community been in all of this? I would think the biz community would use this as an opportunity to make sure a bill passes that signals Jax as a more progressive place than people elsewhere consider it...and obviously that would help the private sector immensely.
^The business community, including the Chamber and the Civic Council, is very strongly in support of the bill. They haven't been quiet about it at all.
Of course there are individual business owners who oppose it for whatever reason; certain council members would prefer to listen to them over the vocal support of every significant business group when considering the voice of the "business community".
And there's no "firestorm on both sides"; one side is in favor of basic protections for LGBT citizens as a moral and legal necessity, and the other side is fighting them at every step of the way.
Quote from: Tacachale on June 12, 2012, 09:41:17 PM
and the other side is fighting them at every step of the way.
^ Absolutely! It is absurd. No one is messing with their rights. They are acting out of the realm of the job they are supposed to be doing by bringing up the argument that this isn't right because The Bible says its wrong. Point blank these , council people are attempting to deny rights to a group who deserves it, and in the process ,doing a stellar job of displaying their ignorance and bias. I won't forget this when election time rolls around again.
Quote from: Timkin on June 12, 2012, 09:16:07 PM
Why would Lumb not go along with the bill. How does it affect him?
I put Lumb in the opposing category because at the RCD/PHS committee last Tuesday he said he cannot support the bill the way it has been amended right now. That said, next week he could change his mind but as of last Tuesday he claimed he would not be supporting it.
Quote from: simms3 on June 12, 2012, 09:20:34 PM
Was the whole CC meeting supposed to be about this one bill? Or is there other order of business actually related to normal CC functions? I understand the bill is important and needs to pass, but this should have been a quicker pass with the business community making sure it gets through alright...and then on to other business. At least that's how I envision a CC meeting should go.
Have we heard much from the biz community on this? Aside from the masses/CC/LGBT/preachers creating a firestorm on both sides, where has the usually more rational and pragmatic business community been in all of this? I would think the biz community would use this as an opportunity to make sure a bill passes that signals Jax as a more progressive place than people elsewhere consider it...and obviously that would help the private sector immensely.
Simms, No the whole CCM was not supposed to be about this one bill. If you read through the first few posts on this thread you see I briefly state some things they talk about. The problem with CCM's is that unless you are avidly up to date on the bill numbers you get lost rather quickly. The first half of the night normally goes something like, "Bill number so and so is doing whatever and will be changed for this or given x amount of money. All those in favor say I. (Most say I) So say the council bill has been passed." And they move on to the next one. It's very quick and there is not explanation given as to what they are talking about. You are given the meeting agenda. It looks like this:
http://cityclts.coj.net/coj/CurrentYear/Council/86-June-12-12-AGENDA.htm
Now, yes, I am an intern, and yes all of this is very very new to me; however, I would assume most people dont understand 80% of what is on that paper.
As far as the business community, surprisingly they appear torn with members of the business community standing up for both sides. A lot of this was discussed last week at the Rules and RCD/PHS committee. I live blogged both of those and the threads are under news.
You're doing great, Ashley, thanks for the coverage. On the "business community", though, it's not "torn" on this issue. There are businesspeople on both sides, but the Chamber of Commerce, Civic Council, and representatives of the largest employers are all avidly for it. And most of them already have comparable policies at their own firms in place.
OK, so this thread has me kinda pissed. I can't believe the people of Jacksonville allow themselves to be led by this band of dumbasses. I don't care what their past accomplishments are, I don't care how "nice" or "genuine" they might be as people. As public servants, they're shit. I believe they might be attempting to intentionally demoralize the voter base into not being at all interested in what they're doing. This way they can simply screw off on the taxpayer's dime and nobody will really care. If that's not their plan, then they simply don't know what they're doing. You spend an entire meeting Bible thumping, and kick the whole thing off with a presentation on Tim Tebow??
WHAT...THE...F-CK....
But if these...people...are who we as a city elect as City Council members, what does it say about us as a city?
People need to see this crap happening. I believe at some point, meetings were televised--or still are, somewhere. There needs to be an expose of some kind about how a city--who seems to be soooo concerned with how its tax dollars are spent-- allows its Council meetings to be glorified thumb twittling, its members getting paid to do pretty much nothing.
Quote from: Charles Hunter on June 12, 2012, 09:13:52 PM
It takes 10 votes to pass an ordinance. In the rotunda before the meeting, I heard someone say the expect the vote to be 10-9, and don't know which way it will go.
I heard the same thing last week. I forget who told me, but they too said 10-9, we don't know which way it will go.
I totally agree with you Kells.
Read Simms' post Inferences (http://www.metrojacksonville.com/forum/index.php/topic,15294.msg283527/topicseen.html#new) and you might get some better insight as to why they are acting the way they are.
Quote from: kells904 on June 13, 2012, 08:42:54 AM
OK, so this thread has me kinda pissed. I can't believe the people of Jacksonville allow themselves to be led by this band of dumbasses. I don't care what their past accomplishments are, I don't care how "nice" or "genuine" they might be as people. As public servants, they're shit. I believe they might be attempting to intentionally demoralize the voter base into not being at all interested in what they're doing. This way they can simply screw off on the taxpayer's dime and nobody will really care. If that's not their plan, then they simply don't know what they're doing. You spend an entire meeting Bible thumping, and kick the whole thing off with a presentation on Tim Tebow??
WHAT...THE...F-CK....
But if these...people...are who we as a city elect as City Council members, what does it say about us as a city?
People need to see this crap happening. I believe at some point, meetings were televised--or still are, somewhere. There needs to be an expose of some kind about how a city--who seems to be soooo concerned with how its tax dollars are spent-- allows its Council meetings to be glorified thumb twittling, its members getting paid to do pretty much nothing.
There CLEARLY needs to be a separation of Religious conviction from doing a public service job. The bill asked to be passed does not ask for us to molest animals, allow pedophilia, walk a tight-wire naked with our significant other. What we are asking for is not to be discriminated upon on the basis of our sexual identity. Some of our council members, BECAUSE THEY PERSONALLY OPPOSE homosexuality , have it in their heads that because their "christian" calling says that this is wrong, that they have the right to reinforce this , while doing a public service job. Somehow this must be a conflict of interest. There are some of these council members I personally like and appreciate, and some of them I can't stand , because they think that their Christianity GIVES THEM THE RIGHT to decide what can be law and what cannot. In other words they are judging, and THEIR OWN BIBLE STATES: "Judge not, lest you be judged" They want to preach by the bible but are unwilling to LIVE BY ALL OF IT!! Kind of a double standard. AND We pay them to do this.
IT IS FRIGGING ABSURD !!!! WHAT EXACTLY are we paying these people to do ?