http://socialbicycles.com/
anyone think this idea will work in downtown?
http://www.metrojacksonville.com/forum/index.php?topic=14386.0
http://www.metrojacksonville.com/article/2012-jan-the-countrys-largest-bike-sharing-systems
http://www.metrojacksonville.com/article/2011-jan-bike-sharing-in-urban-jacksonville
Before we have bike share, we need some infrastructure to support it. It can be as simple as what is shown in the video:
(http://i47.tinypic.com/wjc0fl.jpg)
It doesn't take as long as we tend to believe in Jacksonville either. Lakeland implemented these changes recently after an accident this past March:
(http://www.theledger.com/apps/pbcsi.dll/bilde?Site=LL&Date=20120530&Category=NEWS&ArtNo=120539914&Ref=AR&MaxW=445&border=0)
(http://www.theledger.com/apps/pbcsi.dll/bilde?Site=LL&Date=20120530&Category=NEWS&ArtNo=120539914&Ref=V1&MaxW=728&logo=/images/watermark.gif&logoxpos=0&logoypos=0)
QuoteThe alterations may slow traffic flow a bit, city officials say, but they will make Lakeland more appealing to the young, educated demographic known as the creative class.
The changes also may help Lakeland in its bid to receive a Bicycle Friendly Community designation from the nonprofit League of American Bicyclists.
The plans arose from a task force appointed by the Lakeland City Commission in the aftermath of a March 1 accident involving three bicyclists and a driver at an entrance to the Lakeland Yacht & Country Club on the lake's south side.
QuoteBlack said he and other cyclists proposed some changes that he knew the city wasn't likely to accept: Turning Lake Hollingsworth Drive into a one-way, clockwise road, and treating the stretch near the club as if it were a school zone, with a maximum speed of 15 mph or 20 mph.
The city, though, has embraced other suggestions. Lilyquist shared plans to create 2-foot buffer zones between the vehicle lanes and a bike lane. The buffers will consist of two 8-inch-wide white stripes with 8 inches of unpainted surface between them.
The city is considering adding a series of round, 3/8-inch-high bumps on the stripe nearest the vehicle lane to alert drivers who begin straying into the bike lane.
The public works department also plans to paint the bike lane surface green in sections of high concern, including "pinch points" near Fairhaven Drive and near Beacon Road, Lilyquist said.
QuoteGreen bicycle boxes eventually will be painted at all the streets with stop signs and traffic lights.
The city admitted these multimodal improvements will slow vehicular traffic down (that's a bad word in Jax still...)
QuoteThe result of all of this may mean that vehicle traffic doesn't move as fast around Lake Hollingsworth, said Jim Studiale, city planning director. "It's taking (Lake) Hollingsworth and saying, ‘If you want to speed, go on Florida Avenue, go on Bartow Highway, go on another route,'" Studiale said. "But Hollingsworth, because it's this jewel of a recreational resource, we need to respect it more and make it more of a complete road and deal with safety and pedestrians, which may mean you can't go around the lake in a car in 2½ minutes. Maybe it's going to take you five minutes."
The cost of the planned modifications â€" less than $75,000 â€" would come from the city's transportation fund, whose primary revenue source is gasoline taxes, Lilyquist said.
full article: http://www.theledger.com/article/20120530/NEWS/120539914?p=4&tc=pg
Quote from: thelakelander on June 02, 2012, 05:26:44 PM
It doesn't take as long as we tend to believe in Jacksonville either.
The physical work can be done over a weekend (and mostly at night). What takes a while are all the meetings and studies needed to convince people that it should happen.
Great system. I think it could work here.
some of us are working on getting Intown Jax a bikeshare system as well as a greenlane (colored bike lanes) system...we've met with several council members and hope to meet with Public Works soon
Quote from: tufsu1 on June 03, 2012, 08:14:01 AM
some of us are working on getting Intown Jax a bikeshare system as well as a greenlane (colored bike lanes) system...we've met with several council members and hope to meet with Public Works soon
That's great news. I think that a coloured lane system of some sort (or at least dedicated bike lanes) is an absolute necessity if you're going to have a bikeshare scheme. You can't put bikes out for the general public without taking steps to ensure they won't get seriously injured or killed.
Riverside/Avondale/Downtown/San Marco seem like an ideal starting place for bikeshare and bike lanes. I can see it being really popular.
For those of us who are old enough to have lived through Jim Crow laws, the term "colored bike lanes" is a little disturbing. ;D
Quote from: thelakelander on June 02, 2012, 05:26:44 PM
It doesn't take as long as we tend to believe in Jacksonville either. Lakeland implemented these changes recently after an accident this past March:
(http://www.theledger.com/apps/pbcsi.dll/bilde?Site=LL&Date=20120530&Category=NEWS&ArtNo=120539914&Ref=AR&MaxW=445&border=0)
(http://www.theledger.com/apps/pbcsi.dll/bilde?Site=LL&Date=20120530&Category=NEWS&ArtNo=120539914&Ref=V1&MaxW=728&logo=/images/watermark.gif&logoxpos=0&logoypos=0)
QuoteThe alterations may slow traffic flow a bit, city officials say, but they will make Lakeland more appealing to the young, educated demographic known as the creative class.
The changes also may help Lakeland in its bid to receive a Bicycle Friendly Community designation from the nonprofit League of American Bicyclists.
The plans arose from a task force appointed by the Lakeland City Commission in the aftermath of a March 1 accident involving three bicyclists and a driver at an entrance to the Lakeland Yacht & Country Club on the lake's south side.
QuoteBlack said he and other cyclists proposed some changes that he knew the city wasn't likely to accept: Turning Lake Hollingsworth Drive into a one-way, clockwise road, and treating the stretch near the club as if it were a school zone, with a maximum speed of 15 mph or 20 mph.
The city, though, has embraced other suggestions. Lilyquist shared plans to create 2-foot buffer zones between the vehicle lanes and a bike lane. The buffers will consist of two 8-inch-wide white stripes with 8 inches of unpainted surface between them.
The city is considering adding a series of round, 3/8-inch-high bumps on the stripe nearest the vehicle lane to alert drivers who begin straying into the bike lane.
The public works department also plans to paint the bike lane surface green in sections of high concern, including "pinch points" near Fairhaven Drive and near Beacon Road, Lilyquist said.
QuoteGreen bicycle boxes eventually will be painted at all the streets with stop signs and traffic lights.
The city admitted these multimodal improvements will slow vehicular traffic down (that's a bad word in Jax still...)
QuoteThe result of all of this may mean that vehicle traffic doesn't move as fast around Lake Hollingsworth, said Jim Studiale, city planning director. "It's taking (Lake) Hollingsworth and saying, ‘If you want to speed, go on Florida Avenue, go on Bartow Highway, go on another route,'" Studiale said. "But Hollingsworth, because it's this jewel of a recreational resource, we need to respect it more and make it more of a complete road and deal with safety and pedestrians, which may mean you can't go around the lake in a car in 2½ minutes. Maybe it's going to take you five minutes."
The cost of the planned modifications â€" less than $75,000 â€" would come from the city's transportation fund, whose primary revenue source is gasoline taxes, Lilyquist said.
full article: http://www.theledger.com/article/20120530/NEWS/120539914?p=4&tc=pg
That makes a lot of sense for Lake Hollingsworth since Florida Southern is right there and Southeastern is right down the road. Does downtown Jax have as big of a demand for bike lanes?
Quote from: justinthered on June 03, 2012, 09:32:49 AM
Does downtown Jax have as big of a demand for bike lanes?
Bike lanes are no different than any other form of transportation infrastructure, in that if they are designed properly and connect two or more areas of activity, they will be used. The more protected the bike lanes are from car traffic, the more they will get used - particularly by women and children.
Tha fallacy in the thinking of some of our current leaders is that we only build the system when the demand has been demonstrated. I assure you, that logic is NOT what leads to the construction of highways. First and foremost they are constructed as a generator of economic development. Transit and bike infrastructure will also lead to economic development - of a more sustainable nature.
Fyi - The Jacksonville Bicycle Coalition is having one of their regular, open brain storm meetings today: Three Layers Ciffee House @ 3pm.
It would be a good way to introduce & discuss the topic to stakeholders and activists in the bicycle community.
I'll be there.
Quote from: dougskiles on June 03, 2012, 09:54:05 AM
Quote from: justinthered on June 03, 2012, 09:32:49 AM
Does downtown Jax have as big of a demand for bike lanes?
Bike lanes are no different than any other form of transportation infrastructure, in that if they are designed properly and connect two or more areas of activity, they will be used. The more protected the bike lanes are from car traffic, the more they will get used - particularly by women and children.
This isn't happening here at all though. The city clearly has a basic misunderstanding on what makes a safe & effective bike network. Painting a white line down a street or highway & calling that a "bike network" actually does more harm than good IMO. For one, because it's incredibly dangerous to mix pedestrians/bikes with automobiles. I don't care what anyone says, "open road" cyclists or anyone else. It's just a bad idea. And two, because they don't get used (because of those very dangers & the fact that the network is usually half assed/incomplete that you have to get off it anyway).
Case in point: The sharrows on Riverside Ave. No one uses it, including myself. ESPECIALLY if I have my kid along for a ride in her trailer. There's no way in hell I'd ride her on the streets in this town. So guess what? We stick to the sidewalks, as does most everyone else we see. So in my view, if a so called "bike network" or lane doesn't pass the kid test, it's probably shit. Now, if you want to put up a true divider, like a guard rail, a small raised wall or something, then we can talk. But of course that's not going to happen. At least not here. You'd never hear the end of it from the blowhards.
The only safe place to ride here is the Riverwalk. But that's more for recreation use, not necessarily a "network". It should be though. That thing should actually wrap around the entire urban core. And without a safe network, I'm not sure how successful any bike sharing service would be. It would be like sending soldiers out to battle armed with sticks, when everyone else has bazookas & machine guns.
Quote from: urbanlibertarian on June 03, 2012, 09:15:44 AM
For those of us who are old enough to have lived through Jim Crow laws, the term "colored bike lanes" is a little disturbing. ;D
which is why the term used is greenlanes
s to the comment above from psu....I 100% disagree....studies all over have shown that ridership goes up when bicycle infrastructure (including bike lanes and sharrows) are installed.....and here in Jax, I've seen a significant increase in bike usage in the urban core area over the past few years.
I loved biking in San Francisco, particularly by the piers. You not only had room (not one of those awful skinny excuses for bike lanes that dip sideways into the storm drain), but you had a sense that everyone driving was watching for you! And that's with lots of big hills around, too.
Car traffic in downtowns needs to slow down. The idea in a downtown is you find a single place to park and you keep your car in one place while you walk or whatever to where you want to go. Then slow traffic suddenly doesn't matter quite so much. Different paradigm for suburbia where you go to Target, finish there, then get in your car to drive across the enormous parking lot to the Ross. ;D
Quote from: tufsu1 on June 03, 2012, 01:31:43 PM
Quote from: urbanlibertarian on June 03, 2012, 09:15:44 AM
For those of us who are old enough to have lived through Jim Crow laws, the term "colored bike lanes" is a little disturbing. ;D
which is why the term used is greenlanes
s to the comment above from psu....I 100% disagree....studies all over have shown that ridership goes up when bicycle infrastructure (including bike lanes and sharrows) are installed.....and here in Jax, I've seen a significant increase in bike usage in the urban core area over the past few years.
I'm not disagreeing with you, but seeing an increase in ridership itself doesn't necessarily mean it is the result of adding sharrows. There are other reasons why (the most obvious one being fashion) cycling may be on the upswing in Jax.
I don't think a serious bikeshare system can or should be considered without a system of proper bike lanes. And, of course, serious investment (of time, money and resources) and commitment. The last thing I'd want to see is a smattering of bike stands set up around town with no bike lanes (or related infrastructure), little or no advertising and no maintenance. So when no one bothers to use them (or when ridership doesn't meet expectations), the powers that be can write off not only bikeshares, but cycling as a reasonable or desirable mode of transportation.
Interesting read on Yahoo yesterday concerning a company called sobi (socailbicycles.com).
Quote from: Adam W on June 03, 2012, 01:59:18 PM
Quote from: tufsu1 on June 03, 2012, 01:31:43 PM
Quote from: urbanlibertarian on June 03, 2012, 09:15:44 AM
For those of us who are old enough to have lived through Jim Crow laws, the term "colored bike lanes" is a little disturbing. ;D
which is why the term used is greenlanes
s to the comment above from psu....I 100% disagree....studies all over have shown that ridership goes up when bicycle infrastructure (including bike lanes and sharrows) are installed.....and here in Jax, I've seen a significant increase in bike usage in the urban core area over the past few years.
I'm not disagreeing with you, but seeing an increase in ridership itself doesn't necessarily mean it is the result of adding sharrows. There are other reasons why (the most obvious one being fashion) cycling may be on the upswing in Jax.
Pretty much what I was thinking. I have no doubt its up, but to say its because of some improved infrastructure here in Jax is probably not correct. I'm not aware of any real improvements over the last few years, esp in the core. What, the painted bike figures, er, sharrows on that small strip on Riverside Ave magically increased ridership all over town?? Doubtful.
Like I said, I'm out at least a few times a week & rarely see anyone using it. Nor any of the handful of painted on bike lanes in other parts of town. Most stick to the sidewalks & side streets, where there is no proper infrastructure whatsoever. People in general seem to be using what they are presented with & whatever is safe to use, even if its not exactly legal (sidewalks). This tells me that ridership is increasing, even if the city itself isn't supporting it. I reckon it will continue to be like this & there will be more & more safety issues, close calls, deaths, running into people on sidewalks, motorist distain (and vice versa), etc until the city actually gives a shit & starts accommodating everyone properly.
Most of the "improvements" I see are the ones outside the core, so that may be what tufsu is referring to. For instance, they tacked on a very narrow bike lane onto Normandy Blvd recently around Herlong Airport thats pretty much useless. It begins & ends in the middle of nowhere, with cars whizzing past you doing 65+ mph. I think I've seen maybe 3 people using it in 6 months. ::)
^Don't they have bike lanes near the St Johns Town Center, too? That always seemed like a dangerous place to cycle.
Somebody pointed out to me that it's no longer illegal to ride a bike on sidewalks in Florida. That's a shame. And I say that because by allowing cyclists to use sidewalks, it can be used to dismiss the need for separate, dedicated cycle lanes.
On the other hand, if it helps keep people from being killed, it's a good thing. Besides, in most of Jax (outside of the so-called 'urban core'), there aren't a lot of pedestrians using sidewalks anyway :)
There have been improvements in different areas of town beyond those sharrows, and conceivably this has been a factor in the upswing in bike riding in the city.
In San Marco people use the bike lanes on Hendricks Avenue all the time, despite them being a bit dodgy in some places. These were only added within the last few years, and now you can ride from far south of the square up almost all the way to downtown without directly fighting car traffic. Speaking personally I know that I biked the neighborhood and into downtown a lot more frequently than I would have if there weren't bike lanes.
How much more maintenance is required with the green lanes (painting the roadway?)? Does the coloration produce better safety numbers than a simple line or is it more gimmick? I'd hate to see a green lane installed and then not subsequently maintained as a green lane.
Quote from: PeeJayEss on June 04, 2012, 09:58:48 AM
How much more maintenance is required with the green lanes (painting the roadway?)? Does the coloration produce better safety numbers than a simple line or is it more gimmick? I'd hate to see a green lane installed and then not subsequently maintained as a green lane.
Not sure about the colour, though it might make the existence of the lane more apparent to motorists. One thing is certain - there must be enforcement. The police need to aggressively ticket anyone found driving in those lanes.
I'm an advocate of cameras for reasons like this, though I understand not everyone likes cameras.
In Jax it wouldn't be maintained and would eventually fade away.
Quote from: PeeJayEss on June 04, 2012, 09:58:48 AM
How much more maintenance is required with the green lanes (painting the roadway?)? Does the coloration produce better safety numbers than a simple line or is it more gimmick? I'd hate to see a green lane installed and then not subsequently maintained as a green lane.
The colored lanes help to better delineate the bike lanes from the roadways by creating a sort of visual/psychological barrier for car drivers. I heard about a study in Denmark that found that painted lanes reduced bicycle-vehicle collisions by 38%
Downtown is pretty rough for riding. One of the biggest problems I see is crossing the river. You have tow options, ride the pedestrian paths over the main street bridge, cross the Acosta on the shoulder, or ride Main St in the travel lanes. Acosta is OK if you don't mind cars blowing by at 65mph, but for average commuters that can be dicey and the bridge is pretty steep. The Main St pedestrian sidewalks are super narrow leaving no room to pass traffic in either direction and riding in the travel lanes seems like a death wish with no shoulder and all.
Usually if we want to cruise up to Springfield or DT we cross at Main St on the northbound sidewalk, it's narrower than the SB sidewalk but carries less traffic. Once DT it's usually sidewalks from there on until we get into Springfield.
Quote from: cline on June 04, 2012, 10:09:26 AM
Quote from: PeeJayEss on June 04, 2012, 09:58:48 AM
How much more maintenance is required with the green lanes (painting the roadway?)? Does the coloration produce better safety numbers than a simple line or is it more gimmick? I'd hate to see a green lane installed and then not subsequently maintained as a green lane.
The colored lanes help to better delineate the bike lanes from the roadways by creating a sort of visual/psychological barrier for car drivers. I heard about a study in Denmark that found that painted lanes reduced bicycle-vehicle collisions by 38%
They've recently installed these throughout different parts of London:
http://road.cc/content/news/39122-two-new-barclays-cycle-superhighways-open-london-today (http://road.cc/content/news/39122-two-new-barclays-cycle-superhighways-open-london-today)
There appear to be a few areas where the 'cycle superhighways' weren't thought out well - leading to a number of fatalities. But overall, the scheme seems to be a good one. One of the guys I work with uses the superhighway to cycle the 8.5 miles in to work every day and says it's a real improvement.
Throughout the rest of the area, we have sharrows and cyclists can use bus lanes (along with taxis, buses and motorcycles/scooters).
Quote from: Bill Hoff on June 03, 2012, 10:08:35 AM
Fyi - The Jacksonville Bicycle Coalition is having one of their regular, open brain storm meetings ...
Careful when you use 'open brain' and cycling in the same sentence. Jacksonville riders tend to view this differently than most. ;)
Quote from: acme54321 on June 04, 2012, 10:19:10 AM
Downtown is pretty rough for riding. One of the biggest problems I see is crossing the river. You have tow options, ride the pedestrian paths over the main street bridge, cross the Acosta on the shoulder, or ride Main St in the travel lanes. Acosta is OK if you don't mind cars blowing by at 65mph, but for average commuters that can be dicey and the bridge is pretty steep. The Main St pedestrian sidewalks are super narrow leaving no room to pass traffic in either direction and riding in the travel lanes seems like a death wish with no shoulder and all.
Usually if we want to cruise up to Springfield or DT we cross at Main St on the northbound sidewalk, it's narrower than the SB sidewalk but carries less traffic. Once DT it's usually sidewalks from there on until we get into Springfield.
Same here. Downtown is ALWAYS sidewalks 100% of the time. I wish it were different & you could ride on the streets somehow, but you really can't. That is unless you want to take up an entire lane, which I won't do. Tried that a few times. Once I got nearly clipped as a car passed me, and got honked at other times. Cars own downtown.
Like you, Springfield is about the only place I ride on the streets. Mostly because its very quiet & slow paced, with wide streets. Some parts of Riverside are OK for this too.
really? I ride on the streets downtown all the time
as for crossing the river, FDOT is working on putting sharrows on the Acosta Bridge ramps...and the hope to replace the drainage grates on the bridge shoulders with ones that are more bicycle friendly.
Quote from: tufsu1 on June 04, 2012, 11:08:30 AM
really? I ride on the streets downtown all the time
as for crossing the river, FDOT is working on putting sharrows on the Acosta Bridge ramps...and the hope to replace the drainage grates on the bridge shoulders with ones that are more bicycle friendly.
Oh God.
Do you think that's a bad thing?
I don't think the Sobi bike system would really work downtown, we don't really have the density or demand for some something like this. I would see the early adopters of this being the younger generation who are a bit more tech savvy using their smartphones etc.. and that group seems to already own bikes.
It's an interesting idea but I just don't see it working Downtown.
As far as riding Downtown goes, I've never had any issues, I think people should avoid riding on sidewalks, there for pedestrians. Ride on the rode so cars see you and make your presence known.
Wait, why sharrows on the Acosta? Why not bike lanes? At any rate, obviously either would be better than the current situation.
Quote from: tufsu1 on June 04, 2012, 11:08:30 AM
really? I ride on the streets downtown all the time
As do I and several hundreds of other people.
I also tear the tags from mattresses while in the store. Eat from a dip bowl after watching someone double dip. Routinely go beyond 3,000 miles between oil changes.
I am rebel.
Edit:
Just to add, I routinely ride my bike with a large, 100lb weimeraner running beside me. I stay on the road (bike lane if available) and he stays on the median between the road and sidewalk. Sure, I see the news reports of cyclists getting hit everyday, but I also see reports of bank robberies, shootings, car-jackings, etc. But I let that dissuade me from doing what I want.
As TPC stated, if more people would just do it, the drivers would be forced to be more aware. It honestly pisses me off when I see people 'commuting' on the sidewalk when I'm driving because I know that they're hurting the cause of awareness more than anything.
I'd like to see all this energy on biking lead to the creation/designation of an "Urban Core (Or In Town) Bike Trail" for both pedestrian and recreational uses. With the costs to acquire land, it couldn't possibly be a stand alone trail (entirely) and would have to be incorporated into our existing infrastructure. The costs to do so would likely be minimal relative to the impact of the trail, because a lot of the infrastructure is in place. The Riverwalk creates a great spine down the center and from there you can fan it out and make necessary improvements. I know the Mobility Plan has a lot of bike/ped funding opportunities in it, so you can use that as the groundwork for where to make improvements and create a connected network.
It doesn't have to be the worlds best bike trail/network at first. Just somewhere that you can show on a map and connects Jacksonville's In Town neighborhoods. Somewhere that people know they can safely ride and also get a cool perspective of the city. Then you can let it grow organically and add things like public art, markers, etc. If the user demand is there and it becomes popular the city would have no choice but to pump a lot of money into it and make it a destination.
People drive from all over to ride the Baldwin Trail. A flat piece of land set amongst mediocre subdivisions, with a few nice spots here and there. Imagine how many more would ride The Urban Core Trail set amongst the backdrop of the city, the river, and its finest neighborhoods. Not to mention the residents of In Town neighborhoods who would use it for transportation and recreation.
Quote from: tufsu1 on June 04, 2012, 11:08:30 AM
really? I ride on the streets downtown all the time
I do too. In fact, I find downtown to be one of the safest places to ride a bike in Jacksonville. Mostly because the speeds are lower. Secondly, because there is so much going on at street level, the drivers are more aware of pedestrians, cars pulling out, etc. I feel safer downtown than I do when I'm riding in the suburbs where you know that many of the drivers are looking down at their phones while going 45+ mph.
Quote from: Tacachale on June 04, 2012, 11:25:19 AM
Wait, why sharrows on the Acosta? Why not bike lanes? At any rate, obviously either would be better than the current situation.
the bridge itself is wide enough (the shoulders will double as bike lanes)....but there isn't enough room on some of the ramps for a dedicated bike lane
and here's some hard data from FHWA on what bike lanes and other infrastructure does to ridership
QuoteOur Federal Highway Administration, for example, just released a report on its Nonmotorized Transportation Pilot Program, a four-year effort required by Congress to construct a network of sidewalks, bicycle lanes, and pedestrian and bicycle trails connecting directly with schools, residences, businesses, recreation areas, transit centers, and other community activity centers. FHWA launched the program in four communities--Columbia, MO; Marin County, CA; Minneapolis, MN; and Sheboygan County, WI--and it has proven to be a great success:
•Over four years, people in these four communities alone walked or bicycled an estimated 32 million miles they would have otherwise driven;
•The communities saw an average increase of 49 percent in the number of bicyclists and a 22 percent increase in the number of pedestrians;
•The percentage of trips taken by bike instead of car increased 36 percent, and those taken on foot increased 14 percent;
•While each pilot community experienced increases in bicycling and walking, fatal bicycle and pedestrian crashes held steady or decreased in all of the communities; and
•The pilot communities saved an estimated 7,701 tons of CO2 in 2010.
http://fastlane.dot.gov/2012/05/bike-month.html
It's not that I wouldn't ride on the street downtown, my wife is another story. When there are no bike lanes and no shoulder a lot of people are not going to be confortable riding in traffic. Generally they are going to be slower riders and in that case I think the sidewalk is the best option. The alternative is to put someone who is inexperienced and nevervous up against cars. There's no real good answer there.
Good news about improvements to the Acosta. Those grates are annoying, especially when riding on skinny tires. I think it might also be wise of them to mark the shoulder as a bike lane top of the bridge in addition to the sharrowed ramps. Getting the city to run a street sweeper up there on occasion wouldn't hurt either.
Quote from: acme54321 on June 04, 2012, 01:50:21 PM
It's not that I wouldn't ride on the street downtown, my wife is another story. When there are no bike lanes and no shoulder a lot of people are not going to be confortable riding in traffic. Generally they are going to be slower riders and in that case I think the sidewalk is the best option. The alternative is to put someone who is inexperienced and nevervous up against cars. There's no real good answer there.
And thats really what a lot of us are missing arguing about streets vs sidewalks. Certain situations call for different methods to get where you're going since its such a broken system. And also, some are just simply not comfortable riding with traffic & with no shoulder. And they probably never will be. I'm not blaming those people or think they're "hurting the cause" when the city they live in isn't providing them with any alternatives. And I'm including myself in that camp.
Sorry, but I'm not gonna subject myself (or my child) to the risk just to support "the cause", esp in a city that's brain dead when it comes to stuff like this & will take 20 years of dodging cars to turn it around. Mean mug all you want at me, but fuck that. Its never going to happen. Not in a city that's ranked at the top for pedestrian injuries/deaths & at the bottom for bike infrastructure.
In slower urban areas where the traffic speeds are less, I have no problem biking, I do it around Avondale, with little issue. Obviously at night you MUST have flashing red lights at the rear and a flashing white strobe at the front, otherwise, you are an IDIOT and you deserve to get hit, when (2) 10 dollar lights will save your life and keep you from getting a ticket.
You have to be crazy to ride a bike on Mandarin road though, you might as well get the best insurance possible for your loved ones, cause you will get clipped on that road with no bike lane and too much texting while driving going on.
But the sidewalks were made for pedestrians NOT Bicycles. If you don't feel safe riding on the street, I sure as hell don't feel safer having you barrell down the sidewalk at me with my dog on a leash next to met. Get out in the street where you belong you idiot!
Quote from: peestandingup on June 05, 2012, 12:40:29 PM
And thats really what a lot of us are missing arguing about streets vs sidewalks. Certain situations call for different methods to get where you're going since its such a broken system. And also, some are just simply not comfortable riding with traffic & with no shoulder. And they probably never will be. I'm not blaming those people or think they're "hurting the cause" when the city they live in isn't providing them with any alternatives. And I'm including myself in that camp.
If you're going to use the sidewalk, get off the bike. It's pretty simple, cause or not.
Why are you uncomfortable riding on the roadway with no shoulder? Lack of doing it?
I'm worried about putting my motorcycle on the interstate, because I haven't been riding for very long - do I bitch about the speed limits being too fast? No. I take a safer - LEGAL - route that I feel comfortable with until I'm ready.
If you're uncomfortable riding your bike down Park St. (heavy traffic, no medians, lots of on-street parking and blind driveways) then just jump over a few streets to Riverside or Oak until you're ready. What's the problem? Why should every street cater to everyone when there are other viable options withing a few hundred feet of each other?
QuoteSorry, but I'm not gonna subject myself (or my child) to the risk just to support "the cause", esp in a city that's brain dead when it comes to stuff like this & will take 20 years of dodging cars to turn it around. Mean mug all you want at me, but fuck that. Its never going to happen. Not in a city that's ranked at the top for pedestrian injuries/deaths & at the bottom for bike infrastructure.
I would never put my kid or my dog in harms way intentionally. When I'm with either, I stay off of the main thouroughfares. When I'm on my own, I pretty much ride where I want. If you're going to get hit, you're going to get hit. It won't matter if you're on Blanding, Riverside or King St. there are bad drivers everywhere.
At the end of the day it's perfectly legal to ride your bike on the sidewalks in Duval as long as you yield to pedestrians. So until the law changes there's really nothing that's going to stop people from doing it.
Quote from: acme54321 on June 05, 2012, 01:31:58 PM
At the end of the day it's perfectly legal to ride your bike on the sidewalks in Duval as long as you yield to pedestrians. So until the law changes there's really nothing that's going to stop people from doing it.
You're right. When I was a kid, I believe it was illegal. Or so a cop told us when he visited my elementary school in 1980. And to be fair, you can't really blame people for riding on sidewalks when there are practically no bike lanes.
QuoteAt the end of the day it's perfectly legal to ride your bike on the sidewalks in Duval as long as you yield to pedestrians. So until the law changes there's really nothing that's going to stop people from doing it.
Or until someone is injured and Eddie and Chuck come calling.... :o
Quote from: Adam W on June 05, 2012, 01:41:38 PM
Quote from: acme54321 on June 05, 2012, 01:31:58 PM
At the end of the day it's perfectly legal to ride your bike on the sidewalks in Duval as long as you yield to pedestrians. So until the law changes there's really nothing that's going to stop people from doing it.
You're right. When I was a kid, I believe it was illegal. Or so a cop told us when he visited my elementary school in 1980. And to be fair, you can't really blame people for riding on sidewalks when there are practically no bike lanes.
Reminds me of this:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bzE-IMaegzQ
I feel like I saw this video because one of you guys posted it on this site. Maybe, maybe not. :)
Here's some more info. on green lanes
http://fastlane.dot.gov/2012/06/green-lanes.html?goback=%2Egde_1178607_member_121638660
Quote from: Non-RedNeck Westsider on June 05, 2012, 01:25:27 PM
Quote from: peestandingup on June 05, 2012, 12:40:29 PM
And thats really what a lot of us are missing arguing about streets vs sidewalks. Certain situations call for different methods to get where you're going since its such a broken system. And also, some are just simply not comfortable riding with traffic & with no shoulder. And they probably never will be. I'm not blaming those people or think they're "hurting the cause" when the city they live in isn't providing them with any alternatives. And I'm including myself in that camp.
If you're going to use the sidewalk, get off the bike. It's pretty simple, cause or not.
Why are you uncomfortable riding on the roadway with no shoulder? Lack of doing it?
I'm worried about putting my motorcycle on the interstate, because I haven't been riding for very long - do I bitch about the speed limits being too fast? No. I take a safer - LEGAL - route that I feel comfortable with until I'm ready.
If you're uncomfortable riding your bike down Park St. (heavy traffic, no medians, lots of on-street parking and blind driveways) then just jump over a few streets to Riverside or Oak until you're ready. What's the problem? Why should every street cater to everyone when there are other viable options withing a few hundred feet of each other?
QuoteSorry, but I'm not gonna subject myself (or my child) to the risk just to support "the cause", esp in a city that's brain dead when it comes to stuff like this & will take 20 years of dodging cars to turn it around. Mean mug all you want at me, but fuck that. Its never going to happen. Not in a city that's ranked at the top for pedestrian injuries/deaths & at the bottom for bike infrastructure.
I would never put my kid or my dog in harms way intentionally. When I'm with either, I stay off of the main thouroughfares. When I'm on my own, I pretty much ride where I want. If you're going to get hit, you're going to get hit. It won't matter if you're on Blanding, Riverside or King St. there are bad drivers everywhere.
Oh, yes yes. Because I don't want to put my kid in harm's way & ride with the cars in a city that's ranked among the most dangerous for pedestrians/bikes, with little to no infrastructure to support them, I simply MUST not know how to ride. Is that it?? Lol. No offense, you might be a genius in real life, but that's a pretty ass backwards stupid thing to say.
But for your information, I've biked in/lived in much bigger cities than Jax & was very comfortable riding off-sidewalk in them. Know why? Because they actually supported what I was doing. I didn't have my kid at the time, but looking back, I'd have no problem taking her for rides there. Here that's simply not the case. Forgetting that most streets don't even have shoulders, hell, even in the so called "bike lanes" that we do have, most aren't even wide enough to accommodate the width of her trailer & it would be spilling over into the street. No thanks. I'll keep doing what I'm doing.
But hey, that's your business if you think otherwise & want to subject yourself to it. Just don't cry about it or be shocked when you get clipped or get flattened by some redneck in his monster truck. Stay safe.
When I was in Cologne, Germany they had a stripe down the middle of the sidewalks. The part closest to the street was for bikes. is that legal here?
Quote from: urbanlibertarian on June 06, 2012, 02:59:24 PM
When I was in Cologne, Germany they had a stripe down the middle of the sidewalks. The part closest to the street was for bikes. is that legal here?
Here's what that looks like. I could def get behind this & it seems like it would be fairly easy to implement. Sam Marco & Springfield should have done this when they redid their sidewalks.
(http://farm7.staticflickr.com/6217/6365942425_db9d55a27e_b.jpg)
I came across this report recently by VTPI discussing the thought by many motorists that bicyclists and pedestrians have less of a right to use roads than motorists. I think this mentality is rampant in Jax. Thought it might be of interest to some since it kind of goes along with this conversation.
http://www.vtpi.org/whoserd.pdf