It's a rare treat to see a line outside of city hall to attend a city council meeting. The hall is packed. Standing room only.
There is not a vote on the bill tonight. Tonight is just a conversation
Council Member E. Denise Lee says on the late Pastor Harvey, It takes a lot of courage to stand up and talk about what you believe in. To stand up despite the criticism you may receive in return.
There is standing room only here tonight, or according to Councilwoman Lee "a lot of courage." Sitting alone, on both sides of me are men holding speeches that they intend to share with this large group tonight, and from the small bits of chatter I can hear around me Jacksonville is ready to speak up.
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Intro to meeting included commendations and resolutions...aka government compliments, " whereas, you are so cool for xyz reason we'd like to make it official "you are so cool, officially."
You can watch the city council meeting live on the link below and take part in the conversation.
http://media.coj.net/COJCouncil
the COJ wifi is extraordinarily slow. Do not plan on taking over world from Jacksonville city hall. The network will drive you nuts.
This is the agenda to tonight meeting.
http://cityclts.coj.net/coj/CurrentYear/Council/88-May-22-12-AGENDA.htm
The Councilmen/women are extra lively tonight. They have a crowd and that is, again, a rare treat. Denise Lee is working the crowd performing a little stand up comedy. Giggles from the crowd cause Lee to say "was that funny?"
She knows it was funny. It was funny.
If it's not clear Lee will make you explain. they are discussing bill 2012-273, Inland Navigation Dist. This has to do with dredging near heckscher drive.
The man beside me just stated, " This is my first CC meeting. It's kind of mind numbing don't ya think? Is it always like this?"
Perhaps, the CC should rethink the itinerary next time there are hundreds of people in attendance to talk about one particular item.
Quote from: AshleyLauren on May 22, 2012, 06:12:20 PM
Perhaps, the CC should rethink the itinerary next time there are hundreds of people in attendance to talk about one particular item.
This happenned with this meeting on Kickback's expansion. It ended up running 6 hours since they ran it like a regular meeting with several items on the agenda, even though the room was filled with people only concerned with that one item.
This will be a long night.
Denise Lee is a fire cracker. Somewhat long-winded, yet straight to the point.
Apparently, the city has serious technical difficulties. At the Mayor's Economic Summit there were numerous problems including the sound system and spastic lighting. Tonight, the queue that allows council members to ring in so that they may have a turn to speak is now not working. Making the members raise their hands in order to be called upon to speak.
Tamara, firecracker is the perfect word! I have the feeling we have yet to see her in full force.
Wow, first time seeing the council go to war With the general council. Usually, they are quick to abdicate. Denise lee takes the mic and the crowd sighs. Lee, loves to let everyone know there is so much more she could talk about but she won't.
Important discussions tonight. They are discussing 2012-316, management of our entertainment facilities. According to Lee, Mayor Brown fired SMG and put out the rfp for management. She thinks brown made a huge mistake by excluding city council in this process. She thinks the process needs to be started over and another rfp should be exercised so that city council is involved in spending/protecting the tax payers money. Especially since it was city council that initially made those contracts.
Joost, he's come a long way. When I first saw him in the city council meeting. There was a coyness to him. Now, shiny suits and I can only describe it as a "pimp walk"
Bishop is up. He's concerned about Brown's decision. He's the first to say the people are here for another reason and we need to move forward and this particular bill needs to go to committee. There is not enough info to vote. Hefty stuff for one nights work.
This resolution seems to be for the legal reqiure,ent that the council has to approve the contract for entertainment management. So, yes it has been approved.
We've just been informed that the jaguars Have the ultimate veto. They have final say on who manages the stadium. Crescembeni, not happy with the general councils opinion wants to get another attorneys opinion.
Okay, we're jumping to the reason everyone is here. This will be a long night, tacahale. Yarborough is going through public comment decorum...don't clap, talk to the council as a group not to any one council person...don't piss us off. Those cops over there will take you away.
This first speaker is going to hyperventilate.
[EDIT] And he goes crazy early... wow.
Clay Yarborough cracks a joke to applause " we have a few speakers tonight" he holds up a large stack of speaking cards.
I'm getting a little nervous. This is a contentious issue. I'm hoping for civility. First speaker, says, we have anti-discrimination laws...this bill creates a "super class."
He says:
The bill is unconstitutional. People should have the right to fire if someone is not representing their business accordingly. Example, man making sales calls in a mini skirt.
A few speakers in support of the bill speak.
A pastor representing pastors speaks, he says:
They Absolutly oppose this bill. This bill has nothing to do with fairness or equality. It has everything to do with holding people who do not agree with homosexuality or gender identity issues to have to agree with that lifestyle. This discriminates against people who do not agree and hold a moral opposition to this...
I'm going to refer to homosexuality, gender identity and anything related as "orientation identity" and abbreviated as OI. Sorry if thats weird.
Speaker 3:
Yes!Allow all residents of duval county to live without fear of loss of their rights. Everything about this bill will help. It will bring better employers and employees.
Speaker 4:
No! Statement of opposition from Trinity, NorthJax, Florida Baptist Convention, Westside Baptist, Pastors of the state we oppose this issue. We have clarity and conviction. It has nothing to do with fairness or hiring, jobs, or the elimination of discrimination. The ordinance would discriminate against every person with religious or moral beliefs. It is a unlawful invasion of the constitution. What will happen to the protection of religious organizations and facilities? "Come down hard against this ordinance."
Speaker 5:
Not clear on his opinion. Council member advises him to deal with his problems with MAYO.
Speaker 6: Evokes tears to describe how she feels about Jacksonville's discrimination against minorities.
Speaker 7: Does this bill affect all of Jacksonville negatively? No. It benefits them.
Speaker 8: Reverend Harvey Carr: Call out the council members that have left the room now that 296 is being discussed. (Right before we began Stephen Joost had to call members back because he needed 14 to proceed.)
"This is not a religious ordinance. All men are created equal. Freedoms and rights have continued for all people." Reverend Carr compares this ordinance to the stand taken for civil rights for African Americans. Stating, "If we had not done that then many of you would not be able to sit where you sit much less vote."
Holy crap, Kim Daniels just went off the map.
Speaker addresses that he is insulted that they made everyone in the "audience" wait and when this issue came up so many of the council people left.
They left:
Denise lee
Warren jones
Matt schellenberg
Ray holt
Richard Clark
Kim Daniels Suggested that...a vote for gay rights is a vote to end the rights of other protected classes. Speakers response was "I'm sorry, what?" Audience laughs. Council president admonishes crowd...Kim realizes that what she said was not the best way to make her point. Sits down with " that's all I'll say about it"
Speaker, in favor of bill says, the end vote is with the council. He suggest that ministers will say yes to this bill and ministers will say no. He suggest that doesn't really matter. There are good reasons to pass this bill. Then he uses biblical passages to make his point.
Warren jones is back. He introduced the bill. Most speakers, so far, support the bill. Robin Lumb has left.
As the meeting goes on, gay Jacksonville residents are pleading with the council to pass the bill. They have expressed their endurance of job losses, name-calling, vandalism of property, and harassment.
A transgendered woman tearfully described her being asked to use the men's room at her job despite her identifying as a woman.
However, religious leaders have also asked the council to pass the bill. Two ministers have told council that everyone deserves civil rights. One quotes Dr. King and the Deckaration of Independence.
Speaker 11: We should be a progressive city. It's the right thing to do. Fiscally beneficial to our city and its citizens. All of them.
Speaker 12, 13, 14, 15: I believe every citizen in this city should be treated equally. Truly, it is long overdue. All citizens deserve fairness. If were to succeed as a community and grow then I urge you to pass this human rights ordinance. It makes good business sense. It is the right thing to do. This will help us move past ignorance and prejudice.
You are probably beginning to get the point. The message is pretty clear. Every Jacksonville citizen should be considered equally. No matter their color, gender, or lifestyles. Pretty inspiring to see person after person, not knowing each other but all in agreement and support of this bill they believe in so much.
Speaker, in favor of the bill, claims he was fortunate to be hired based on his talent and not his sexual orientation. He says passing this bill is the right thing to do
On a side note: Does anyone know why they are made to tell their addresses before speaking? Wouldn't that be considered risky for something like this?
A college professor says some of his students feel cursed and damned, no longer wishing to remain in this community.
Media is packing up. Although, we are not even close to completion. Seriously, no where close...
If you want to watch the public comments live go here...
http://media.coj.net/COJCouncil
Point is made that this bill has nothing to do with...
Homosexual marriage or The morality of homosexuality...don't confuse the issues.
Lots of MetroJax people in the building. Melanie and Gerald are looking stylish as always. Be careful, they may get a picture of you. Andy is walking around taking pictures of big name people. Stephen Dare is walking around working the crowd with important people like UNF President John Delaney. I believe I saw Tamara sitting on the ground towards the back in between a bunch of standing men. Arash has disappeared unless he is still on the third row. And I finally found a plug in the very back. Next to the trash cans. We are in it for the long haul.
DID KIM DANIELS REALLY JUST SAY THAT?
Kim Daniels just asked if sexual orientation extends to animals.
And just said in Egypt it's legal to sleep with dead people.
Oh my goodness.
I stand corrected. Councilwoman E. Dennis Lee was not the one to watch out for. Kim Daniels has evoked many moments of public outburst from the audience with her ridiculous comments. Stephen Joost has told the audience several times to calm down but has yet to reprimand Kim Daniels in the same way.
To Clarify:Dead animals and the heathens who love them will notbe welcome at Kimberly Daniels annual Christmas Party.
not a psychiatrist myself, but I think she quotes the DSM wrong. DSM now speaks of "Sexual Orientation Disturbance", which excludes gay/lesbian as a disorder (older versions did). Someone most have fed her a sound bite.
has anybody spoken against the bill who is not a "pastor" of some kind?
Speaker: " So many people do not even realize this is happening."
--Do most people really ever know what is going on? Isn't that half the problem. So many people are still narrow-minded and unwilling to consider different and varying opinions. Many have no insight or idea of the politics taking place in Jacksonville. This bill is about rights, but if used correctly it could also be used to educate citizens about the unconstitutional discrimination many of Jacksonville's citizens endure each day.
Discrimination is driving young people out of Jacksonville? This further proves that Jacksonville is only hurting itself
To be fair city councilmen/women are coming and going. Lee is back joost is gone. Tag team. No has spoken against the bill except the first few people. The current speaker kinda threatens...I know powerful people and they care about this bill. Another speaker, " we have a lot of discrimination in Jacksonville. I'm a democrat and I'm discriminated against. There is a brain drain I this city. Our talent does not feel comfortable here...pass this bill so the rest of the country does not think we are a close minded city,"
Quote from: movedsouth on May 22, 2012, 08:08:31 PM
not a psychiatrist myself, but I think she quotes the DSM wrong. DSM now speaks of "Sexual Orientation Disturbance", which excludes gay/lesbian as a disorder (older versions did). Someone most have fed her a sound bite.
has anybody spoken against the bill who is not a "pastor" of some kind?
Thus far, no. I lost track of how many speakers have taken the stand. Speaker 3 came in place of a group of pastors opposed to the bill. I.e, Trinity Baptist, Evangel Temple, NorthJax, Westside, First Baptist, etc. But those pastors did not take the time to come speak for themselves. And no other speaker has opposed the bill yet.
I caught one of the speakers in the hall while looking for the bathroom and complimented her on speaking up. She stated she was nervous and would have felt more comfortable talking to kindergarteners.
"That shouldn't be a problem considering some of the council members have the maturity levels of kindergarteners," I replied.
Kim Daniels is priceless... wow.
I need to find her address for her office so that I can send her a Tin-foil hat tomorrow. She's that far gone.
Kim Daniels just asked if the bill would, in effect, void all birth certificates.
Goodness.
Audrey killed it. Fantastic speech.
"When you took the oath of office, you swore to protect all of the residents of Jacksonville, not just some of them" -Audrey Moran
Audrey Moran "This bill is good for Jacksonville. This bill has broad community support. People from all across our city are urging you to bring our city in line with other metropolitan cities and ban all remaining types of discrimination. Chamber of Commerce, one of the largest in the country, voted yes on this bill last Friday."
Audrey Moran reminds the council members that they took an oath to protect all members of the community.
Kim's last question was probably her first almost relevant question. She was trying to ask, and she didn't really, what are the potential legal ramifications for employers when it comes to the legal gender vs the stated gender of an employee.
"Public opinion is clearly on our side, " says speaker.
That's definitely one of the best lines I've heard all night on this matter
10 minute break. And all of the MJ staff runs out to either smoke or inhale second hand.
Quote from: RiversideLoki on May 22, 2012, 09:10:28 PM
10 minute break. And all of the MJ staff runs out to either smoke or inhale second hand.
ahaha, Funny because there was a recess and we actually all came to the front!
Does Jacksonville want to be known as a city that scares people off? These testimonials are a cry for help. All night I've heard the word "please".
"I'm asking you to PLEASE pass this bill."
"PLEASE consider giving everyone equal rights"
I will trust this speaker when she tells me the amount of cats she owns.
It seems as the night goes on the testimonies become more personal. Reminding me of what Council Member E. Denise Lee's comment in the beginning that it takes courage to take a stand. Again, speaker after speaker takes the stand to tell their stories of discrimination in Jacksonville. The City Council members body language is questionable. Several with their heads down, some with their chins resting on their hands, and others in a blank stare portrayed across their faces. No one has asked a question in a while and you have to wonder what is going through their minds right now. Have they zoned out and are no longer present? Or have they already been convinced of how to vote?
Well, the woman that just took the stand claiming 54 years of celibacy and that this is not at all about sexuality woke the council members and some of the audience up.
Correction made about DSM comment. Homosexuals are human beings. And as human beings we have rights.
Jacksonville must be progressive in its policies in order to compete. Laws need to be changed. Up the anti-discrimination policy. It is time for progress to happen again in Jacksonville.
Did anyone catch that woman's name?? Or where she was from??
crowd has thinned out. Speakers are in support of the bill. Nothing pronounced or profound. Council members, like the people in the gallery are kind of fading...or, maybe, I'm projecting. There is a reporter sitting beside me and she is editing footage of the meeting. I've been looking at Kim Daniels on a perpetual loop for the last hour on her laptop.
A speaker opposed to the bill, represents herself as sexually neutral. She has a few arguments:
1) freedom of association - without explanation 2) An employer that needs to lay someone off chooses the straight person for fear of a lawsuit if the person who is homosexual (etc) is fired.
Warren Jones, Bill Sponsor, points out that the bill does not apply to employers that have 15 or less employees.
"We are not doing this just for Jacksonville..."
Beautiful words.
QuoteI will trust this speaker when she tells me the amount of cats she owns.
Are you referring to Kim Daniels?
"Please show me my city will protect me."
A tearful cry from a long time resident.
Quote from: TheCat on May 22, 2012, 09:44:06 PM
QuoteI will trust this speaker when she tells me the amount of cats she owns.
Are you referring to Kim Daniels?
Also the eunuch.. Which could also be referring to K.D....
Listening to more testimonies, I'm learning that not only are lgbt community members being discriminated against but PERCEIVED lgbt members are getting the flack. A woman's deep voice, short hair, and masculine fashion sense means she is gay? This goes back to what we are taught in math, science, and psychology: correlation NOT causation.
Jimmy keepin' it classy.
Well spoken Jimmy!
Nice Job, Jimmy!! you are right. Your home town can surprise you and it has been inspiring to be here tonight.
This gay, female minister has voiced what I have been thinking. This isn't about religion or who we sleep with. This is about living up to our constitution.
I love Pastor Valerie, She's always been a good neighbor. The parishioners of the church have been super nice. They recently had an issue with someone in the area calling city code enforcement to keep the workers working on Lee HS from parking in the church's lot. The other day they went around door to door to plea to the people in the area to allow them to park. Otherwise they would be parking on-street and clogging the street.
I believe Kim Daniels is playing devil's advocate, again. I want to know who was she asking about. Amendments to whose rights? The churches? I am not sure she actually posed the question correctly. Any ideas, Arash??
Maybe....wait for it...we might have...Yes, we do. A man in opposition is afraid that this will open the door to more liberal acts of legislation and to more liberal ways of thinking. "Your going to open a door you might have difficulty changing later on. Not saying amendments shouldn't be made at all, but I ask you to vote in opposition of this bill."
Though I respect those that have expressed their religious beliefs, there has to be more explanation beyond religion. Clearly Kim Daniels identifies as a Christian, but do we know if the rest of the council is? Perhaps some don't believe in religion or God and need more convincing?
Breaking News
Kimberly Daniels has just beaten her current high score in Minesweeper, and will be retiring to her chambers for a private celebration
This man challenged the council to take a look back and remember their childhood years. Getting teased because you're the short kid or you cannot throw a baseball very well. Is discrimination that much different? If we look at this ordinance through a child's eyes....
Quote from: joshuataylor on May 22, 2012, 10:18:16 PM
Breaking News
Kimberly Daniels has just beaten her current high score in Minesweeper, and will be retiring to her chambers for a private celebration
(http://i.imgur.com/cQSyT.jpg)
I dont know what Koo Koo been Kim Daniels fell off of, but she hit her head a few to many times! This bitch is crazy, there is no other way to put it.
You know what... Jacksonville is being shaken at the core and I love it. Its time for the city to change. That bill should have been revised 20 years ago. Audrey Moran said it best so I hope Mr. Brown is listening.
What the hell did that camel and tent line mean?
a speaker said something like "I'm black. I'm straight. And, gays make cities awesome!"
Kim is speaking...I don't know how to interpret. In her own way she's been entirely strategic tonight about the points she wants to make. Strategic but not good at implementing her strategy.
The points she wants to make:
1) sexual orientation should be specifically defined and not left open to interpretation.
2) Potential problems with the legal definition of gender vs. the stated gender of the individual
3) there should be a religious exception (there is)
The way she asks a question; however, is mmediately awkward. Her questions are muddled and as you're trying really really hard to discern what she is saying you suddenly hear something like "sex with animals," and your like "what the f*&%?!" I'm trying to stop swearing and Kim provokes me. She attempts to frame her questions in such away as to coax an answer,
"do you like cookies, yes or no?"
"it depends on the cookie..."
"yes or no"
"no...?"
She has only chosen people that are the most charismatic to question. My assumption, she thinks if she can get the charismatic to agree to a badly articulated point she is making she will be able to make a case for modifying the bill. It has not worked...I think, mainly, because she is hard to comprehend. A better speaker may be required for Kim to make her points and ask her questions.
An interesting speaker has come up to the podium. he says he wants to provide another perspective. He says he believes in Jesus and believes that Jesus loves all people and he loves all people, and that includes all of the people that are represented in this bill. He does not believe that there should be special protections given to people who have a specific kind of lifestyle.
A few speakers later. A man who sits on the board of an organization that helps people who do not want to be gay. He supports this bill. He has been fired for living a gay lifestyle.
FSCJ faculty supports the bill. Sent the union rep. Good on em. If you know any FSCJ professors, you know that they're incredibly progressive. Despite Don Green's efforts.
Quote from: Lucasjj on May 22, 2012, 10:24:14 PM
What the hell did that camel and tent line mean?
LucasJJ, when you figure it out please let me know!!
Benny Diamond just won the whole universe.. sorry poetry guy... you can't follow that up.
"I'll lead a gay parade. I won't wear a rainbow, but I'll lead the parade."
As long as there's a man like Benny Diamond in Jacksonville, Jacksonville will be a-ok.
Quote from: joshuataylor on May 22, 2012, 10:32:00 PM
"I'll lead a gay parade. I won't wear a rainbow, but I'll lead the parade."
As long as there's a man like Benny Diamond in Jacksonville, Jacksonville will be a-ok.
Because he's the hero Jacksonville deserves, but not the one it needs right now. So we'll hunt him. Because he can take it. Because he's not our hero. He's a silent guardian, a watchful protector. A dark knight.. leading the gay parade.
A speaker says we can amend rights but we cannot amend the scriptures. He suggest genesis 18.
One of the city council regulars is at the podium. The city council does have regular public speakers. He says, "if you guys would have acted sooner we wouldn't be here so late tonight."
"Let me be proud of Jacksonville." A very heartfelt and honest request.
Here we go, folks.
Quote from: duvaldude08 on May 22, 2012, 10:23:59 PM
I dont know what Koo Koo been Kim Daniels fell off of, but she hit her head a few to many times! This bitch is crazy, there is no other way to put it.
You know what... Jacksonville is being shaken at the core and I love it. Its time for the city to change. That bill should have been revised 20 years ago. Audrey Moran said it best so I hope Mr. Brown is listening.
Duval Dude.... you ALWAYS crack me up brother !! :o ;D
Shorter Kim Daniels; "I like turtles."
"professionalism is not being discussed here tonight," says a sobbing Jacksonville woman
"Jacksonville can be known as a place of equality," says a young woman who shares stories of friends losing job opportunities due to being transgendered.
I concur. Sexuality does not define how we do our jobs.
Quote from: RiversideLoki on May 22, 2012, 10:22:07 PM
Quote from: joshuataylor on May 22, 2012, 10:18:16 PM
Breaking News
Kimberly Daniels has just beaten her current high score in Minesweeper, and will be retiring to her chambers for a private celebration
(http://i.imgur.com/cQSyT.jpg)
You all are BAD ;)
OH BOY! Randy McDaniels is going to speak! I can't wait! ::)
This man has proclaimed how proud he is of Jacksonville and passing this bill will decrease the job rate....
Um...huh?
This man basically just referred to California as some homosexual Mecca. He claims passing this bill will not help in job growth but it will do the opposite; well, his claim wasn't exactly clear, but he definitely is against the bill.
Speech 101: don't talk with your hands. Just saying.
Just a reminder of Mr. McDaniels http://jacksonville.com/opinion/blog/403455/matt-dixon/2010-12-11/activist-who-led-fight-against-muslim-professor-jax
This lawyer's head is so shiny.
By council rule all business of the CC must end by midnight. Therefore, people can wait but it sounds as if they mean you should go. However, before the president even finished his statement half the chamber is gone.
attorney accidentally refers to council as "members of the jury". He fears that moral objectors to homosexuality will be sued. Provides examples, photographers were sued because they did not want to photograph a same sex marriage. Furnishes a few other examples.
The speaker before him says, "if the community is 86 percent for this bill than the bill is not necessary.
Okay, council rules dictate that the city agenda must be completed before midnight. So, they have to continue to other agenda matters. Joost asks the people in the gallery to stand if they want to show their support. The majority of the room stand. Then asks those who want to show their opposition to stand. A few stand.
Recess is proclaimed. The crowd flees. As do I.
Thank you all for the entertaining and edifying coverage.
^^ And dont forget to thank Kim Daniels for an uneventful meeting! I kinda like having her around. Comic relief at its best! ;D
Quote from: duvaldude08 on May 22, 2012, 11:32:03 PM
^^ And dont forget to thank Kim Daniels for an uneventful meeting! I kinda like having her around. Comic relief at its best! ;D
Only way I would thank her ,is for stepping down, and that is not going to happen !
Thank you for catching me up. I had to leave at the break at 9:00. I had comments prepared, but when I saw the stack of speaker cards, I figured I'd wait and see how it went before I put one in. I didn't need to. When I left, the count was 42 in favor, 2 against, including Pastor Brunson who spoke for several churches. However, the pastor of our church, Arlington Congregational, an ONA - open and accepting congregation - along with others, wrote a letter in support. And many other pastors, including other Baptist pastors, spoke in support.
My favorite speaker of the night may have been the Rabbi, who compared Leviticus 18:22, which speaks of a man sleeping with a man, as a "small" transgression as opposed to an abomination, and compared it to eating a ham sandwich. Even if you believe it's not wrong at all, you had to love the Rabbi. Although, the speaker who quoted the verses about adulterers being sentenced to stoning and not to touch the skin of a dead pig (football) came in a close second, I have to say.
The City Council just voted to extend meeting to 12:30am. Yarborough once again begins calling names on cards for Amendment 2012-296, but the majority of the individuals left the chambers after the amendment was tabled. Council Member Crescimbini brings to the attention of the Council that the language used when the amendment was tabled (that individuals would have time to stand at the end of the meeting) was not clear enough to convey to the public that they would lose their opportunity to speak before the council.
Joost deems the practice fair.
Now I'm sitting in the council room listening to the names of people who all had stories to tell being read aloud to deaf ears. Presently, six speakers of the 100+ have been present to speak. If you wished to have your voice heard, the Good Old Boy system has just tricked you out of your opportunity. Welcome to the Bold New City Of The South.
Oh, what a night.
This has been a very long night. It's the home stretch at the City Council. Speakers tonight were something like 90 in favor of our bill and 18 opposed. Had more people stayed, while Council went back to other business, I think we'd have had a slightly better ratio. But I'll take it.
And thank you for the nice comments on my speaking. It was a lot to orchestrate and I'm quite glad it's over.
Next, the action will shift to June 4 and June 5 for the bill's two committee hearings. And then, hopefully, onward to victory on June 12 at Council.
I quit watching around 11:00. If anyone who wanted to speak was not allowed to, I seriously doubt if any new points could have been made.
Seeing folks who chose to speak in public who did not have the ability to put two sentences together was painful. Speaking of which, I am thankful that Ms. Daniel did not have to ask anyone for the time of day; if she had had to ask, it would have taken her a minute or so to get the question out: With regard to the hour - - - that is -- umm -- I was wondering if there is the possibility that --- about minutes too, if you wouldn't mind explaining - - - ummm, how is it that --- what I want to know is if --- well anyhow exactly what time is it???
Quote from: Debbie Thompson on May 22, 2012, 11:47:06 PM
My favorite speaker of the night may have been the Rabbi, who compared Leviticus 18:22, which speaks of a man sleeping with a man, as a "small" transgression as opposed to an abomination, and compared it to eating a ham sandwich. Even if you believe it's not wrong at all, you had to love the Rabbi. Although, the speaker who quoted the verses about adulterers being sentenced to stoning and not to touch the skin of a dead pig (football) came in a close second, I have to say.
Rabbi Lief is a very good speaker and hios synagogue and the overall community are better because he is here.
He and I have had a few conversations about keeping kosher....yes, I very much enjoy a ham sandwich :)
Quote from: joshuataylor on May 23, 2012, 12:18:39 AM
If you wished to have your voice heard, the Good Old Boy system has just tricked you out of your opportunity. Welcome to the Bold New City Of The South.
The Gool Ole Boy system would never have scheduled a meeting just to hear public comment on this item
Who was the lawyer against an anti-discrimination bill? So I know who to add to my shit-list when I run across him. Gay, black, Indian chief, disabled, whatever, discrimination is discrimination and should be battled wherever possible. It's embarrassing to see so many people arguing their personal religious beliefs are grounds to subjugate whole swaths of the population to second-class citizenry. And for the record these are the same tired old arguments people used in the 1950s and 1960s to maintain segregation. And before that, it was the Italians. And before that it was the Irish and Catholics. During WWII it was the Japanese.
There is always some group appointed to serve as U.S. society's whipping boy. Next in line after gay people seems to be Hispanics. Sad facet of human nature. Even more sad and disturbing to watch people justify it with the same tired old religious arguments and flimsy justifications. Shows we've learned nothing as a nation for 100 years. This is also a civic embarrassment, as Jimmy Midyette noted on the news last night, every other major city including Daytona Beach (much smaller than we are) has already implemented an anti-discrimination bill.
"The fact that 86% of the community support it means we don't need it..." WTF, seriously?
Well, that was a heck of a night.
Random thoughts: we should probably check out all the other 66 major cities that have passed a similar ordinance to see if a lot of mustached, mini skirt wearing men have been showing up to work. (The first speaker, the minister, is apparently concerned this will be a problem.)
Ms Daniels has a concern that if we don't discriminate against these people then nobody will be special because we won't be discriminating against anyone? Isn't that sort of the point?
Someone observed the irony that the meeting was preceeded by the Pledge of Allegiance during which we all supported "liberty and justice for all" and then went on to discuss NOT doing it. Hmmm.
I'm guessing the tourism department in Egypt is working on new advertising slogans even as we speak, like "VIst Egypt! Bring your sheep!"
I left some time after 10 when I thought my head would explode if I heard one more remark that danced around what is, in fact, simple bigotry.
I heard no arguments from the other side that would not have been deemed horrendous if you substituted the word "black" for the subject at hand. Property rights? Okay, if it's legal to discriminate against the LGTB community because it's your own property then why not blacks? Come on. This is the same group of people who said these same things 50 years ago.
As was pointed out repeatedly, it's time for Jacksonville to go down THIS time on the RIGHT side of history.
The thinking of some people in this city really baffles me. At my job I am the lead over one of our employee resource groups, which is the black leadership forum. We have one that is for gays and trangenders also. However, they have not been active in years and I talk to the lead he does not care to even bring it back up because of all the negative feedback the company was getting. At one point, we were allowed to pass out information to employees. Well employees became "offended"by been offering information and emails begin flying to HR quoting bible scripctures and stated they could not believe that our company supported such an initiative. Really? There is a resource group for blacks, asians, veterans and the disabled. But its wrong for us to have one for gay employees????
^What company are you with, DD?
Quote from: ChriswUfGator on May 23, 2012, 08:59:46 AM
Who was the lawyer against an anti-discrimination bill?
I believe he works for the Florida Famioly Council
Quote from: tufsu1 on May 23, 2012, 10:49:06 AM
Quote from: ChriswUfGator on May 23, 2012, 08:59:46 AM
Who was the lawyer against an anti-discrimination bill?
I believe he works for the Florida Famioly Council
He's John Stemberger of the Florida Family Policy Council. He lives in Orlando and makes his living bashing gays in Court. I don't think he's read our rules of the Florida Bar. (No, I'm being flip, I know that even the Klan got to hire zealous advocates, so why not the modern-day version?)
Quote from: duvaldude08 on May 23, 2012, 10:19:11 AM
The thinking of some people in this city really baffles me. At my job I am the lead over one of our employee resource groups, which is the black leadership forum. We have one that is for gays and trangenders also. However, they have not been active in years and I talk to the lead he does not care to even bring it back up because of all the negative feedback the company was getting. At one point, we were allowed to pass out information to employees. Well employees became "offended"by been offering information and emails begin flying to HR quoting bible scripctures and stated they could not believe that our company supported such an initiative. Really? There is a resource group for blacks, asians, veterans and the disabled. But its wrong for us to have one for gay employees????
we just have a diversity group. We don't really have one that pinpoints a certain race
Quote from: fsquid on May 23, 2012, 11:12:27 AM
Quote from: duvaldude08 on May 23, 2012, 10:19:11 AM
The thinking of some people in this city really baffles me. At my job I am the lead over one of our employee resource groups, which is the black leadership forum. We have one that is for gays and trangenders also. However, they have not been active in years and I talk to the lead he does not care to even bring it back up because of all the negative feedback the company was getting. At one point, we were allowed to pass out information to employees. Well employees became "offended"by been offering information and emails begin flying to HR quoting bible scripctures and stated they could not believe that our company supported such an initiative. Really? There is a resource group for blacks, asians, veterans and the disabled. But its wrong for us to have one for gay employees????
we just have a diversity group. We don't really have one that pinpoints a certain race
Yeah were the oppisite. We dont have a diveristy committee, but we have diveristy recongintion month. Then we have the business resource groups or employee resource groups (some companies use different names). FORD is another company that has them also.
Thanks MJ for doing this live blog!
I surely wish this piece could have been shared before the last vote on this issue. It is heartfelt and in my view the words of a truly brave individual looking at past choices made. A lot to be learned here.
http://www.upworthy.com/must-watch-a-politician-loses-it-and-restores-my-faith-in-humanity?c=O98
Thanks Charles Hunter for sharing this. :)
Definition of TOLERANCE
1: capacity to endure pain or hardship : endurance, fortitude, stamina
2a : sympathy or indulgence for beliefs or practices differing from or conflicting with one's own
2b : the act of allowing something : toleration
3: the allowable deviation from a standard;
Definition of ACCEPTANCE
1: an agreeing either expressly or by conduct to the act or offer of another so that a contract is concluded and the parties become legally bound
Two unique and distinct concepts.
One can tolerate but not accept. But if one must accept something they can't tolerate, that is something completely different.
That's just parsing. At any rate, the only thing anyone would have to "accept" with the HRO is that discrimination is unacceptable.
No parsing was attempted. They are used interchangeably in many discussions on the subject.
I was just highlighting that they aren't the same.