The latest report just confirms what we've been saying, THIS WILL HAPPEN. There is an interesting bit about OIA having a station and apparently considers that it will be used by JACKSONVILLE PASSENGERS! Thank you Orlando. Otherwise anyone still on the fence? Just ask yourself why they are 'picking operators' and 'trains' but they still don't know if it's feasible! Yeah, right...
QuoteThe company already owns 200 miles of track needed for the route- it says it will cost a billion dollars to build the final 40 miles between Cocoa and Orlando, and modify the existing freight track to accommodate the new service, called All Aboard Florida.
Spokesperson Christine Barney says there’s an appetite for intercity rail in Florida- but the ill fated high speed rail project between Tampa and Orlando shows public funding is not the way to go.
Barney says the company is confident it will get the funding it needs to start rolling in 2 years time.
“We’re already looking at selecting the operators, picking the actual trains, you know, we’re moving very quickly," she says.
"We understand that if the project is going to move forward things have to happen quickly, but we think that’s a reasonable expectation.â€
The service aims to make the trip from Orlando to Miami in about 3 hours, and could run up to 14 times a day.
Barney says that could mean up to 3 million fewer cars on the road.
“It is going to be a learned behavior because people haven’t had this option before. But our initial studies indicate that there are enough people that don’t like the delays that occur, the traffic that occurs, the cost, wear and tear on cars, gas, and the difficulties of driving.â€
The train will stop in West Palm Beach and Fort Lauderdale, but Barney says there could be potential to link up to airports and seaports- including Port Canaveral and Orlando International Airport.
Stan Thornton, project Liaison Manager for the Greater Orlando Aviation Authority, says the airport is talking to Florida East Coast Industries about the proposed rail line.
Thornton says it could increase passenger traffic by giving people better connections to the airport.
“We have people who come down from Jacksonville, we know that from our garage traffic," says Thornton.
"It’s what we call a catchment area and we think that could increase by up to 50 per cent.â€
All Aboard Florida is not the only passenger rail service that could be rolling on the east coast: Amtrak is also exploring a service from Jacksonville to Miami on the same stretch of track.
(OCK NOTE: This also bodes well for the Cocoa station which is supposedly still 'uncertain'. Fact is, if the Amtrak trains happen on the FEC, the connection to OIA from JAX would be in COCOA.)
Florida East Coast Industries says Amtrak and All Aboard could both use the track without any conflict.
The company says it will have a better idea of the final route of the train and the timeline for completion once ridership, engineering and environmental studies are finished in the next few months.
SOURCE WMFE: http://www.wmfe.org/site/News2?page=NewsArticle&id=12779&news_iv_ctrl=1041
I have a question Ock....do you now support a rail station at OIA?
Quote from: tufsu1 on May 18, 2012, 01:28:31 PM
I have a question Ock....do you now support a rail station at OIA?
My position is unchanged on the OIA station. I've said from the start that a train passing through, using OIA as a way-stop between downtown centers would be great, but as a terminus, it would suck. The FECI project plans on a physical concoction with the State Owned Sunrail Line around Sand Lake Road and ultimate entry into Orlando proper. That connection is going to be the OUC railroad, which ALREADY connects the area east of OIA along the Beach Line with downtown via the loop around the south end of the airport. If the south terminal is ever built, it would be very close but not within the airport terminals themselves and would probably rely on a shuttle connector.
All of that is fine with me, but PLEASE don't tell me it is going to run from OIA to Miami because that would be a tragic misstep.
OCKLAWAHA
Where did you hear that the FECI project would extend into DT Orlando? I could see a distinct possibility where it temporarily terminates at the Orlando Airport but riders will be able to catch a Sunrail train into DT Orlando cross platform.
Quote from: thelakelander on May 18, 2012, 03:38:02 PM
Where did you hear that the FECI project would extend into DT Orlando? I could see a distinct possibility where it temporarily terminates at the Orlando Airport but riders will be able to catch a Sunrail train into DT Orlando cross platform.
I believe it is implied in a couple of statements they have made:
"FEC said in a statement. "In addition, stations in Miami, Fort Lauderdale, West Palm Beach and Orlando mean convenient transfers to Metrorail, Metromover or SunRail, allowing passengers to reach their final destination."
"(The) company is planning a new privately owned, operated and maintained passenger train service that will connect Downtown Miami and Orlando by 2014."
There is no clear plan to extend Sunrail beyond the Sand Lake Road station in the direction of the airport. The city has proposed to build a light-rail line to connect them. They are doing an alternatives analysis now.
That being said, nothing is written in stone yet and any line could go most anywhere. I'm basing my comments on the fact that is Sunrail doesn't make it into OIA, and the FECI says they WILL connect to Sunrail, then there is absolutely no reason that an FECI train couldn't continue on up to the Lynx Transportation Center. Keep in mind the most critical piece of this plan is the OUC spur. This spur intersects the state owned Sunrail trackage where the Central Florida Parkway meets Intermodal Way/also where Orange overpasses the railroad.
The logic is simple here, they will be using a state owned right-of-way from Cocoa to East Orange County, and a city utility from East Orange to Orange Avenue, why wouldn't they continue on northward into the principal surface transportation hub? Remember railroad's run on each others trackage all the time, especially where company A is not in competition with company B in any given territory.
"In addition, stations in Miami, Fort Lauderdale, West Palm Beach and Orlando mean convenient transfers to Metrorail, Metromover or SunRail, allowing passengers to reach their final destination."
There was a plan to extend Sunrail to the airport. If FECI comes along and basically replaces the dead HSR project with their own, it wouldn't be out of the way to see this thing pick up steam again. If this happens, I find it hard to believe it extends north to Orlando's downtown. There would be no need with the headways that Sunrail would be running.
(http://photos.metrojacksonville.com/Transit/High-Speed-Rail-Florida/OrlandoHSR-1/819131780_XqebM-M.jpg)
(http://photos.metrojacksonville.com/Transit/High-Speed-Rail-Florida/OrlandoHSR-3/819131783_yhAgh-M.jpg)
(http://photos.metrojacksonville.com/Transit/High-Speed-Rail-Florida/OrlandoHSR-4/819131791_Uqk3W-M.jpg)
correct Lake...in fact, FDOT just selcted the consultant who will do the Alternatives Analysis study for the OIA-SunRail connector...
and no Ock, it won't be connecting to downtown...fact is, the FECI line will likely follow the same alignment high speed rail was going to.
Well guess we'll just have to wait and see. I cannot imagine any railroad in the intercity-regional market placing a station on the far edge of town. Witness Jacksonville's Amtrak station. Even if Sunrail makes it into OIA, there is no reason to expect FECI won't be able to use the same track to access an existent rail station.
OCKLAWAHA
Sure, since it would then be competing with Sunrail for riders between OIA and Downtown Orlando in a similar fashion to what JTA is doing with BRT and the skyway on the Southbank.
Unfortunately, DT Orlando was never the center point of the region because Orlando was a dusty little citrus town with no significant influence on the other Central Florida communities before Disney took over the region. That makes Central Florida's demographics and population center somewhat different than a traditional city such as Jacksonville.
FECI has also mentioned if this initial service is successful, they'd be open to extending it to Tampa, which is the opposite direction of DT Orlando. It will be interesting to see how all this turns out but if I were you I wouldn't get my hopes up to high this early on this particular project going into DT Orlando. Better to be pleasantly surprised instead of utterly disappointed.
Quote from: thelakelander on May 19, 2012, 10:38:05 AM
Sure, since it would then be competing with Sunrail for riders between OIA and Downtown Orlando in a similar fashion to what JTA is doing with BRT and the skyway on the Southbank.
Not at all Lake! It's done all of the time. Witness Amtrak and Metrolink on any number of their lines. Between Los Angeles Union Station and Fullerton for example, Amtrak's Surfliner's make exactly 0 stops. Between the same two stations on the same mainline, Metrolink stops at Commerce, Norwalk/Santa Fe Springs and Buena Park.
FECI shouldn't be too blinded by OIA that they can't see a benefit in tapping downtown, which is MUCH easier to get to from over half of the metro area then the airport is. They also won't ignore the possibility of meeting Amtrak trains to or from Tampa at the Amtrak Station, Church Street Station or perhaps the Lynx Station. I do recall hearing that they plan to go at least as far as Sand Lake Road, but I haven't located my source yet. If/When I do, I'll share it with you.
QuoteUnfortunately, DT Orlando was never the center point of the region because Orlando was a dusty little citrus town with no significant influence on the other Central Florida communities before Disney took over the region. That makes Central Florida's demographics and population center somewhat different than a traditional city such as Jacksonville.
While it's true that Orlando is one giant Target store parking lot rather then an aged organic 'city', they are rolling right past us with a Skyline that is almost completely new. Huge development taking place in downtown Orlando, coupled with the synergy of communities like Winter Park, Altamonte, Apopka, Oviedo, Lake Mary, Heathrow, Longwood, Sanford, should make the center of population just about dead center somewhere around where Church Street crosses the Sunrail tracks... DOWNTOWN.
QuoteFECI has also mentioned if this initial service is successful, they'd be open to extending it to Tampa, which is the opposite direction of DT Orlando. It will be interesting to see how all this turns out but if I were you I wouldn't get my hopes up to high this early on this particular project going into DT Orlando. Better to be pleasantly surprised instead of utterly disappointed.
I'm not really too worried about it, you always win some and lose some and I'm comfortable with my crystal ball. As for the Tampa trains making a more central station location out of the way, it shouldn't effect it. I would imagine these regional trains will run in Push-Pull and it's only a couple of miles from where the OUC spur joins the mainline to the Amtrak station.
Depending on how they enter and exit, that's not much more then the back in move that will be required of some trains arriving at Jacksonville Terminal. The back in move into Tampa Union Station is probably longer.
I guess the future will tell. If I were forced to put money on it, I'm thinking FECI stopping at both OIA and DT has just as much of a chance as them going to both DT Miami and MIA and adding multiple stops between Cocoa and West Palm Beach. The difference between the Amtrak California/MetroLink example and Sunrail is that Sunrail will be a fledging start up that will need all the riders it can get. All eyes will be on it and those Central Florida counties ponying up cash for it aren't going to want their investment having to compete for ridership.
Lake, it works like this...
"NOTE 'A' YUKON, FLORIDA
Trains 75 and 76 will stop to receive or discharge passengers from Savannah and points north, and from Orlando and points south thereof. No local traffic handled."
Put in a modern timetable it would simply read, "FEC trains carry no local passengers between OIA, Sligh Avenue Station and Lynx Station in Orlando. Passengers may board at any of these stations to and from Cocoa Beach and all points south. For local services between OIA, Sligh Avenue Station and Lynx Station in Orlando see SUNRAIL."
In this manner both 'railroads' get into the airport and the city center and neither is taking people out of the seats of the other.
OCKLAWAHA
I understand how it works. I just don't believe that's going to be the case in this situation for a variety of non-rail operations related reasons.
in balitmore amtrak northeast regional and acela express both stop at downtown and the aiport, if you do both stations you get local and the tourism market.
Quote from: yapp1850 on May 20, 2012, 05:08:45 PM
in balitmore amtrak northeast regional and acela express both stop at downtown and the aiport, if you do both stations you get local and the tourism market.
Exactly Yapp!
I'm a railroad guy, and I have lived in both the Orlando (Heathrow) and Miami (Coral Springs) areas. If I were traveling between these two locations and had to drive out to or from the Orlando International Airport... I'd drive the whole way and wave to the train as it ran past me somewhere down on I-95.
(http://www.alansalerno.com/files/150188/orlando_florida_map.jpg)
I contend that it would be a fatal error to continue with the idea that the center of the Orlando metro is located south of the 436/528 interchange.
Why wouldn't you catch Sunrail and transfer at platform? By the same token, in Miami one would catch Metrorail and transfer at platform to FECI. Also, here are a few things that make your target market population center change:
1. Tampa/LakelandUntil this thing is extended to Florida's West Coast, that's an extra +3 million residents to tap into. Nevertheless, the market doesn't end at imaginary MSA borders. It's been rapidly growing SW for decades now.
2. Tourism marketThey get 50 million tourist a year. The lion's share are in the vicinity of the airport and SW towards Polk County and Tampa. That's a number we simply can't ignore that a traditional city doesn't. We don't have to like it but its a reality.
Also, FECI has stated that only four stops are certain at this point. One each in Orlando, West Palm Beach, Fort Lauderdale and Miami.
QuoteSo far, Cumber said, four stops appear certain for the train that has been dubbed All Aboard Florida: Miami, Fort Lauderdale, West Palm Beach and Orlando. The exact locations remain uncertain, except for Miami, where FECI owns nine acres downtown.
Missing as a possible stop is Cocoa, where the proposed train would veer west for Orlando. Bob Kamm, director of the Space Coast Transportation Planning Organization in Viera, said Brevard County officials want to know if they will have any involvement with the system.
"All we would see is the negatives ... if you are just blowing through and waving as you go by," Kamm said.
Cumber said the ridership study would determine if there is a Cocoa stop, but he added that the train's biggest appeal is that it would be faster to ride it to Miami or Orlando than drive a car. The projected travel time is three hours and two minutes, he said, compared with about four hours by auto.
http://southeast.construction.com/yb/se/article.aspx?story_id=172605338
With Sunrail already serving the entire metro Orlando population north of the airport, I'd be surprised if FECI:
A. Bypasses the OIA/I-Drive area for downtown Orlando.
B. Adds two Orlando stations as a part of phase 1.
Quote from: thelakelander on May 20, 2012, 06:43:12 PM
Why wouldn't you catch Sunrail and transfer at platform?
Nope, Sunrail would be great for getting around the metro, but it's not the sort of train I'm going to drag 3 suitcases onto in order to drag them off and reload at OIA. Driving would be much simpler, but allow me to load those bags ONCE onto a conventional train, and I'll ride.
QuoteBy the same token, in Miami one would catch Metrorail and transfer at platform to FECI. Also, here are a few things that make your target market population center change:
1. Tampa/Lakeland
Until this thing is extended to Florida's West Coast, that's an extra +3 million residents to tap into. Nevertheless, the market doesn't end at imaginary MSA borders. It's been rapidly growing SW for decades now.
Agreed, however it's also been expanding northeast for the same amount of time. Except for a tiny stretch of swamp, EVERYTHING between Daytona and Downtown Orlando is already suburban with some urban. I simply think it's wrong to try and make a train into a plane. I will grant you and TUFSU the fact that some people MIGHT visit Mickey and use public transit to go south or east, but the lion's share of those people already have their tour bus tickets in hand when they step off the plane, or they have a rental car. People from Miami certainly DON'T need Orlando's airport to travel around the world when they can do that from their home town.
I mean, why not a station at the Orlando-Sanford International Airport? Daytona Beach? There is also a landing strip up near Apopka, but they sure as hell are not train stations. We have long preached the wisdom of bringing Amtrak back downtown in Jacksonville, we've seen how ridiculous it is to travel 5 miles out of town to get to the depot. Likewise the train station for Orlando needs to be IN Orlando's CBD. Nobody form Tampa-Lakeland is going to drive to Orlando to catch a train for Miami, even Amtrak's Silver Star would beat that end to end time.
Quote2. Tourism market
They get 50 million tourist a year. The lion's share are in the vicinity of the airport and SW towards Polk County and Tampa. That's a number we simply can't ignore that a traditional city doesn't. We don't have to like it but its a reality.
Do you remember the plan for the triangle of passenger rail? Tampa-Miami-Orlando-Tampa? People from roughly Haines City westward to Tampa also do not need OIA, in light of Tampa's great airport.
QuoteAlso, FECI has stated that only four stops are certain at this point. One each in Orlando, West Palm Beach, Fort Lauderdale and Miami.
QuoteSo far, Cumber said, four stops appear certain for the train that has been dubbed All Aboard Florida: Miami, Fort Lauderdale, West Palm Beach and Orlando. The exact locations remain uncertain, except for Miami, where FECI owns nine acres downtown.
Missing as a possible stop is Cocoa, where the proposed train would veer west for Orlando. Bob Kamm, director of the Space Coast Transportation Planning Organization in Viera, said Brevard County officials want to know if they will have any involvement with the system.
"All we would see is the negatives ... if you are just blowing through and waving as you go by," Kamm said.
Cumber said the ridership study would determine if there is a Cocoa stop, but he added that the train's biggest appeal is that it would be faster to ride it to Miami or Orlando than drive a car. The projected travel time is three hours and two minutes, he said, compared with about four hours by auto.
http://southeast.construction.com/yb/se/article.aspx?story_id=172605338
Cocoa will happen, in fact they will probably revive the 1960's modern station still standing along the FEC RY. I think in time there will be several other stops with trains running end to end making different intermediate stops. This way no one train will stop at all stations in order to keep the rail's shining.
QuoteWith Sunrail already serving the entire metro Orlando population north of the airport, I'd be surprised if FECI:
A. Bypasses the OIA/I-Drive area for downtown Orlando.
I don't think it will. It IS going to rap around the south end of the airport, a perfect location for a way-station.
QuoteB. Adds two Orlando stations as a part of phase 1.
When I grew up in Winter Haven and lived in Lakeland, we routinely flew out of both airports depending on the destination and fare. Both are relatively a short drive. Heck, I still fly out of Orlando a lot now, depending on the fares. Anyway, as I said earlier, we'll see. At this time, nothing I'm seeing written in the papers or hearing out of Orlando (I'm working with a lot of the public stakeholders down there on another transportation project) suggests that it will be going into DT Orlando. If it does, lunch is on me. :)
ok...so here's a new method of connecting OIA to SunRail....this makes high speed rail look cheap!
http://www.sunshinestatenews.com/story/maglev-company-says-it-can-fill-15-mile-gap-sunrail
Another article about Miami-Orlando rail link...note that it mentions a Cocoa to Jacksonville link
http://www.miamitodaynews.com/news/120614/story6.shtml
This article reads like the project will happen regardless of the study results. It seems their study is only intended to further flesh out how exactly this system will operate and how much it will cost FECI.
^^that is probably case Lake. They have been doing their due diligence for a while now.
I like the part that refers to the portion between Cocoa and Orlando as an area already designated for public use....just come out and say Beachline Expwy!
^God, I wish that existed when I lived in Orlando. That drive SUCKS. Though I guess it just goes to show why you don't move from Jax to Orlando if you like the beach.
Quote from: Ocklawaha on May 18, 2012, 12:17:16 PM
The latest report just confirms what we've been saying, THIS WILL HAPPEN. There is an interesting bit about OIA having a station and apparently considers that it will be used by JACKSONVILLE PASSENGERS! Thank you Orlando. Otherwise anyone still on the fence? Just ask yourself why they are 'picking operators' and 'trains' but they still don't know if it's feasible! Yeah, right...
QuoteThe company already owns 200 miles of track needed for the route- it says it will cost a billion dollars to build the final 40 miles between Cocoa and Orlando, and modify the existing freight track to accommodate the new service, called All Aboard Florida.
Spokesperson Christine Barney says there’s an appetite for intercity rail in Florida- but the ill fated high speed rail project between Tampa and Orlando shows public funding is not the way to go.
Barney says the company is confident it will get the funding it needs to start rolling in 2 years time.
“We’re already looking at selecting the operators, picking the actual trains, you know, we’re moving very quickly," she says.
"We understand that if the project is going to move forward things have to happen quickly, but we think that’s a reasonable expectation.â€
The service aims to make the trip from Orlando to Miami in about 3 hours, and could run up to 14 times a day.
Barney says that could mean up to 3 million fewer cars on the road.
“It is going to be a learned behavior because people haven’t had this option before. But our initial studies indicate that there are enough people that don’t like the delays that occur, the traffic that occurs, the cost, wear and tear on cars, gas, and the difficulties of driving.â€
The train will stop in West Palm Beach and Fort Lauderdale, but Barney says there could be potential to link up to airports and seaports- including Port Canaveral and Orlando International Airport.
Stan Thornton, project Liaison Manager for the Greater Orlando Aviation Authority, says the airport is talking to Florida East Coast Industries about the proposed rail line.
Thornton says it could increase passenger traffic by giving people better connections to the airport.
“We have people who come down from Jacksonville, we know that from our garage traffic," says Thornton.
"It’s what we call a catchment area and we think that could increase by up to 50 per cent.â€
All Aboard Florida is not the only passenger rail service that could be rolling on the east coast: Amtrak is also exploring a service from Jacksonville to Miami on the same stretch of track.
(OCK NOTE: This also bodes well for the Cocoa station which is supposedly still 'uncertain'. Fact is, if the Amtrak trains happen on the FEC, the connection to OIA from JAX would be in COCOA.)
Florida East Coast Industries says Amtrak and All Aboard could both use the track without any conflict.
The company says it will have a better idea of the final route of the train and the timeline for completion once ridership, engineering and environmental studies are finished in the next few months.
SOURCE WMFE: http://www.wmfe.org/site/News2?page=NewsArticle&id=12779&news_iv_ctrl=1041
This is great! A train from Jacksonville to Orlando International Airport could put JIA out of business.
Lets face it, flights from Orlando to ANYWHERE are much less expensive than from JIA. Even paying rail fare to Orlando, then airfare from Orlando would STILL be less expensive than airfare out of JIA.
Count me in!
^ I don't see how a 3 hour train ride to OIA would put JIA out of business....and I have a hard time believeing that a $20 one-way fare ($40 round trip) would still allow for cheaper flights from Orlando to ANYWHERE.
The cost of train tickets would probably cancel out any savings. Besides, the differences in prices depend on the destination. As I type, I'm in JAX right now, after a weekend in Cincinnati. In my particular case, flying out of JAX was the cheapest.
^ blasphemy lake...Orlando must always be cheaper :)
Quote from: tufsu1 on June 17, 2012, 10:18:29 PM
^ blasphemy lake...Orlando must always be cheaper :)
Any time Ive looked up flights, it is :)
It all depends. When I flew to Boston last month tickets from JAX were far and away cheaper than the other available flights in state. It was direct too. On the other hand I've flown out of Orlando and Sanford to get to Michigan, though there the wasted gas, parking fees, and the hassle of two 2+ hour drives really negated the savings. We won't be doing that again even if it is cheaper.
Airlines don't price by the market size or wow factors, the prices are set simply by how many tickets of each class are sold. When a flight to Orlando is running with empty seats the ticket prices will be higher, likewise a flight from Jacksonville that typically runs full will be lower. Simple as that.
Instead of linking the FECI line to Orlando via Cocoa and the Bee Line, why not tie in to Sunrail further north at Deland via Port Orange or Daytona? Much less track involved and the Cocoa line could be set aside as a future leg as ridership estimates and demand increases. Seems a whole lot LESS risky and would likely lure in more regular daily commuters from the Daytona area.
^FECI is shooting for the long distance Orlando/South Florida connection. With that said, FDOT District 5 is looking into possibly extending Sunrail (or some form of mass transit) to Daytona Beach from Deland, via I-4's median.
Funny thing about that is there are already TWO complete right-of-ways which had rails on them, one from Orange City to New Smyrna and one from Benson Junction (Enterprise/DeBarry) to New Smyrna. The Orange City route has been built over in places, but the other would be pretty easy to reconfigure back to rail. The Median of I-4 to SR-400 to the FEC in Daytona/South Daytona would be a tough job because it's all pretty urbanized from I-95 to the tracks. So you could get from the DeBarry/Deland area to I-95, but after that all bets are off without some really big $$.
What they are doing is using 'free' right-of-way which was purchased and set aside for the HSR train between Cocoa and Orlando. That route will cost them nothing and in fact the state might be building the tracks.
Quote from: thelakelander on June 18, 2012, 11:14:26 AM
^FECI is shooting for the long distance Orlando/South Florida connection. With that said, FDOT District 5 is looking into possibly extending Sunrail (or some form of mass transit) to Daytona Beach from Deland, via I-4's median.
actually FDOT isn't...at least not yet.....its the folks in Volusia County that want it studied
http://www.myhometownnews.net/index.php?id=93647
FDOT is considering it. I was asked and did to present to their higher ups in Deland on this exact topic two months ago.
Daytona has been talking about this since at least 1972, when I lived there.
The best way to obtain I-4 might be the old Atlantic and Western branch of the FEC RY. This line came off what is now the CSX at Orange City Jct. Last time I was there, there was still part of the wye track that led from Orlando/Sanford into the median of Graves Avenue. The old track followed the median of Graves to the area of 'Foothill Farms' where it jogged north and caught Lake Helen.
(http://fpc.dos.state.fl.us/reference/rc18308b.jpg)
I took this shot at OC JCT. the track I'm standing on was the A&W wye, the train is roaring down the mainline northbound.
Quote from: Ocklawaha on June 18, 2012, 03:40:26 PM
Daytona has been talking about this since at least 1972, when I lived there.
The best way to obtain I-4 might be the old Atlantic and Western branch of the FEC RY. This line came off what is now the CSX at Orange City Jct. Last time I was there, there was still part of the wye track that led from Orlando/Sanford into the median of Graves Avenue. The old track followed the median of Graves to the area of 'Foothill Farms' where it jogged north and caught Lake Helen.
I took this shot at OC JCT. the track I'm standing on was the A&W wye, the train is roaring down the mainline northbound.
Not possible since all of the ROW between Williams Street and Cedar has been sold off for development. The ROW is still undeveloped off of West Graves, but I seriously doubt the houses (large ones) between Springbark and Buford Ave. would allow any kind of rail nearby. In this case NIMBY is quite literal.
Yes, the Atlantic and Western Railway has been gone since the early depression years when the huge mill at Lake Helen closed down. The route through Enterprise would be easier but the new homes along the spring run around DeBary would probably shoot that down too, even though the bike path has preserved the route.
Whatever route they'd choose, they'll have to find a way to access both I-4 and a way past I-95 to the railroad. With the Cocoa connection a certainty, I wouldn't hold my breath on the Daytona Link.
Quote from: Ocklawaha on June 18, 2012, 09:39:45 PM
Yes, the Atlantic and Western Railway has been gone since the early depression years when the huge mill at Lake Helen closed down. The route through Enterprise would be easier but the new homes along the spring run around DeBary would probably shoot that down too, even though the bike path has preserved the route.
Whatever route they'd choose, they'll have to find a way to access both I-4 and a way past I-95 to the railroad. With the Cocoa connection a certainty, I wouldn't hold my breath on the Daytona Link.
Do you know how they were getting out of Cocoa? I can only see a couple of options, out of the Cocoa yard near Pluckebaum Road, or north to the Cidco Roundabout and using Grissom Parkway.
After that getting to MCO is easy, there is still rail service to the plant on the east side of Orlando, they could catch the spur at Wewahootee Road.
Quote from: Ocklawaha on June 18, 2012, 09:39:45 PMWhatever route they'd choose, they'll have to find a way to access both I-4 and a way past I-95 to the railroad. With the Cocoa connection a certainty, I wouldn't hold my breath on the Daytona Link.
With the Sunrail extension talk, they aren't trying to get to FEC's track. Heck, at this point it may not be commuter rail they end up with between West and East Volusia.
(http://farm5.staticflickr.com/4007/4634066746_535cdf2e23_z.jpg)
Bakersfield, Amtrak Terminal
Some sort of express bus services operating out of a Sunrail terminal such as Sanford, would be freeway close and a fleet of dedicated buses could make the trip into Daytona Beach at various points. In the evening when the train from Orlando pulled into Sanford, the buses would be lined up under the canopy with 'Ormond', 'Flagler Beach', 'St. Augustine,' 'Port Orange', etc on their destination curtains. Just a couple of easy steps across the platform and the passengers are on their way home in the express lanes of I-4.
OCKLAWAHA
^As of now, I personally believe that an express bus makes more sense then attempting to construct a commuter rail line down I-4.
Quote from: spuwho on June 18, 2012, 09:52:46 PM
Do you know how they were getting out of Cocoa? I can only see a couple of options, out of the Cocoa yard near Pluckebaum Road, or north to the Cidco Roundabout and using Grissom Parkway.
After that getting to MCO is easy, there is still rail service to the plant on the east side of Orlando, they could catch the spur at Wewahootee Road.
They'll be using the OUC RR to get from Sand Lake Road to the east side of the OIA airport and hence on the former HIGH SPEED RAIL right-of-way which runs along the south side of SR-528.
I detailed the two options at the Cocoa end in my article. Check out both Lakelander and my own article on the FECI 'All Aboard Florida,' project. Yeah, I know, if they wanted to run a contest for a STUPID name they couldn't have done any better LOL!
THE LAKELANDER:
FECI Bringing Private Passenger Rail To Florida By 2014 | Metro ...
Mar 27, 2012 ... Called "All Aboard Florida," the intercity passenger rail project will include business- and coach- class service with advance purchase reserved ...
www.metrojacksonville.com/.../2012-mar-feci-bringing-private-passenger- rail-to-florida-by-2014
OCKLAWAHA:
Stunning Things Are Happening As Florida Goes Rail | Metro ...
Apr 10, 2012 ... This is bigger than Jacksonville, bigger than 'All Aboard Florida' - this is just the start of an epic change in thinking as Florida goes rail.
www.metrojacksonville.com/.../2012-apr-stunning-things-are-happening-as- florida-goes-rail
Quote from: thelakelander on June 18, 2012, 10:59:41 PM
^As of now, I personally believe that an express bus makes more sense then attempting to construct a commuter rail line down I-4.
(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/f/f3/TRE%40FWITC.jpg)
Fort Worth is another GREAT example of how to pull this off. I probably wouldn't send but one bus route via US 92 and Deland, and maybe another via Lake Helen and Deltona, but I would most certainly tie it in in around Sanford/Lake Monroe, near where the tracks run under that FREEway.
Quote from: Ocklawaha on June 18, 2012, 11:20:31 PM
Quote from: thelakelander on June 18, 2012, 10:59:41 PM
^As of now, I personally believe that an express bus makes more sense then attempting to construct a commuter rail line down I-4.
Fort Worth is another GREAT example of how to pull this off. I probably wouldn't send but one bus route via US 92 and Deland, and maybe another via Lake Helen and Deltona, but I would most certainly tie it in in around Sanford/Lake Monroe, near where the tracks run under that FREEway.
I took TRE back to DFW while on a biz trip where I tried everything public for transport. Great service location in Dallas next to DART, but the double bus ride to get to DFW from the TRE station was a deal killer for repetition. Hopefully AAF (All Aboard Florida) will avoid that little problem at MCO.