http://www.theatlanticcities.com/neighborhoods/2012/05/limits-density/2005/ (http://www.theatlanticcities.com/neighborhoods/2012/05/limits-density/2005/)
Some interesting themes for Jacksonville, namely that building tall buildings is no guarantee of dense/vibrant neighborhoods. The density we should be aiming for is a density of uses, not of square footage.
Great find. Makes me think of Miami. For a city with so many condo tower and all you see are parking garages at street level.
I have to disagree on this one, high-rises are the most important to a major city. They add charactor, they make you think about the complexity, the expense, the engineering skills it took to pull it off. They add inspiration, (especially when you're looking at it from 10 miles away on the freeway) I agree about Miami though, which is why we should look to NYC, Philly, Boston, and to an extent, Baltimore. We can do it, especially in DT, if nowhere else, DT needs to be as built as we can get it.
I say, let's go as far as to attempt to build the tallest building in the world! Right here in DT JAX!
The density Jax needs for the most part is to follow Riverside's experience in the core neighborhoods. Obviously giant new projects downtown should be more vertical and not sprawl out like our abomination of a new courthouse.
QuoteObviously giant new projects downtown should be more vertical and not sprawl out like our abomination of a new courthouse.
Amen brother, if the Feds could build a courthouse on one square block, why did the City think they needed multiple?
You said it twin courthouses there would have looked great.
Good points. DC is really the token model here, but not ironically it is the most expensive city behind Manhattan.
I think Houston keeps building up and up and up (both 4-5 stories and 50 stories), and yet nothing being built in Houston connects and the overall vibrancy of the city is as dead as they come. Dallas the same to a much lesser extent (its tallest area - downtown - is dead, but Uptown and along Mockingbird are coming together, and yet these areas are a mixture of mid-rise and low-rise).
The point about tech firms is also true. I see that happening where I am - these firms are massing in the warehousy districts and in low-rises around the universities.
A development my firm is working on features 400,000 SF floorplates (nearly 10 acres) and only ~10 floors. It will have tech firms and general loft office space, multifamily, condos, and retail/market space with gardens and a track and event space on the roof. Once all is said and done, including parking the building will more efficiently maximize floorspace than any skyscraper could.
This weekend I'll try to get around to showcasing new rental product going up en masse in Raleigh-Durham, Charlotte, Atlanta, Nashville and Birmingham to depict the current trend for infill (a trend that has not reached Jacksonville except in 1-2 developments total). None of it is high-rise/skyscraper.
Quote from: simms3 on May 16, 2012, 03:14:36 PM
Good points. DC is really the token model here, but not ironically it is the most expensive city behind Manhattan.
I think Houston keeps building up and up and up (both 4-5 stories and 50 stories), and yet nothing being built in Houston connects and the overall vibrancy of the city is as dead as they come. Dallas the same to a much lesser extent (its tallest area - downtown - is dead, but Uptown and along Mockingbird are coming together, and yet these areas are a mixture of mid-rise and low-rise).
But of course darling, Mockingbird and Uptown are on Light-Rail and Streetcar, the amazing clusters that have sprung up along the Plano Light-Rail line are perfect vibrant models. Keeping in mind that Dallas like Jacksonville is as hot as the hubs of hell in the summer, albeit Jacksonville seems to have forgotten the function and art of 'AWNING'.
Quote from: mtraininjax on May 16, 2012, 02:24:02 PM
QuoteObviously giant new projects downtown should be more vertical and not sprawl out like our abomination of a new courthouse.
Amen brother, if the Feds could build a courthouse on one square block, why did the City think they needed multiple?
Well the Feds went for the ultra-modern urbanist elite look, Jacksonville went for the Mayberry RFD appearance.
Quote from: urbaknight on May 16, 2012, 02:08:04 PM
I have to disagree on this one, high-rises are the most important to a major city. They add charactor, they make you think about the complexity, the expense, the engineering skills it took to pull it off. They add inspiration, (especially when you're looking at it from 10 miles away on the freeway) I agree about Miami though, which is why we should look to NYC, Philly, Boston, and to an extent, Baltimore. We can do it, especially in DT, if nowhere else, DT needs to be as built as we can get it.
I say, let's go as far as to attempt to build the tallest building in the world! Right here in DT JAX!
Hard to copy a downtown in a Continental Climate in a Temperate Sub-Tropical Climate. As I have already said, the fine art of covering our sidewalks seems lost on the current incarnation of downtown Jacksonville.
Quote from: urbaknight on May 16, 2012, 02:08:04 PM
I have to disagree on this one, high-rises are the most important to a major city. They add charactor, they make you think about the complexity, the expense, the engineering skills it took to pull it off. They add inspiration, (especially when you're looking at it from 10 miles away on the freeway) I agree about Miami though, which is why we should look to NYC, Philly, Boston, and to an extent, Baltimore. We can do it, especially in DT, if nowhere else, DT needs to be as built as we can get it.
I say, let's go as far as to attempt to build the tallest building in the world! Right here in DT JAX!
I don't disagree. The thrust of the article to me, however, was that building high-rise single-purpose structures matters less than concentrating uses. Correct me if I'm wrong, but aren't almost all the high-rises downtown single purpose? Not even ground-floor retail. The BoA tower especially reminds me of this:
(http://www.costar.com/webimages/oakbrook1a.jpg)
Another Jahn building next to a suburban shopping mall, right off the interstate, surrounded by parking lots. The Berkman and towers on the Southbank would be just as much at home on the Gulf Coast, with their significant street set-backs and parking-centric designs.
Chicago's Trump Tower on the other hand is a condo-hotel with ground floor retail and a 16th floor restaurant. Water Tower Place in Chicago is a major shopping mall, condo-hotel *and* office building. While the Loop (almost entirely office space) is dead after 6 PM, mixed-use, high-rise neighborhoods like River North and Streeterville are always bustling.
Quote from: JFman00 on May 16, 2012, 09:09:06 PM
Correct me if I'm wrong, but aren't almost all the high-rises downtown single purpose? Not even ground-floor retail.
Actually, nearly all of the downtown skyscrapers have retail on the ground floor. A few, such as Everbank Center (former AT&T) and Wells Fargo Center (former MODIS/Independent Life) have mini malls. BOA has a bank branch, a coffee shop and at least two retail spaces on the first floor. One used to be a restaurant but it closed a couple of years ago. The problem with downtown is you can barely see any of the first floor retail from the street.
I had no idea. I'd guess they're designed mostly to cater to people working in the tower during the day?
They, like most downtown buildings constructed after 1950 are horribly designed at street level. One of the quickest ways to improve downtown is to expose businesses in the towers to the street.
^As I say at every opportunity, doing just that has done wonders for downtown Orlando.
As far as the retail issue goes, sinage alone won't be enough. (it is a great start though) In addition to sinage, retailers should have their front entrances right on the sidewalks. If people can just walk in to a shop, they'd be more likely to do so; Basically I'm just trying to eliminate any and all excuses for people to avoid these businesses.
It would take a lot of work retrofitting the buildings we have now. But we'd be wise to consider this in future building projects. kudos to Wells Fargo for realizing and implementing their plan, I'm sure it was a huge pain for them but they stepped up!
Part of the visibility problem is they aren't allowed to put signage out on the street, or in the windows, for aesthetic reasons. But if you work downtown, you know about most of them.
The Chief of Police is determined that the streets of the city shall not be obstructed by signs that mar the beauty of Jacksonville. Already there have been a few arrests of merchants who refused to take the signs down and the police are adamant in stating that if the merchants do not comply with the law, more arrests will follow...
Times-Union, November 13, 1909
Guess we reap what we sow eh?
OCKLAWAHA
Quote from: Debbie Thompson on May 17, 2012, 08:41:37 PM
Part of the visibility problem is they aren't allowed to put signage out on the street, or in the windows, for aesthetic reasons. But if you work downtown, you know about most of them.
Seems like simply policy change and the nudging of government (Mayor's Office, JEDC, DVI, etc.) can change this. It would be easier to do this than pull off funding a convention center anytime soon.
The owner of the lobby sandwich shop in the BoA Tower told me it was the landlord that didn't allow signage, as I recall. But that was years ago, so my memory could be faulty. I don't think tasteful white lettering and graphics in a pleasing font in the window would detract from the building. Something garish may, but I don't think that would. I was also told the rent was too high. At one time, there was even a retail flower shop in the lobby inside the Laura Street entrance. They sold potted plants, cut flowers, and small bouquets. But they closed too. They said rent too high, couldn't post signage. Kathy who had the small gift shop said the same thing. Rent too high. Wasn't making money. In all those instances, visibility may have helped bring people in to make it profitable. And Parmenter could realize a full space at lower rent is better than an empty one. But then, you could say that about Main Street landlords in Springfield too.
The biggest surprise/best kept secret in the BoA Tower is the restaurant on the 42nd floor where the Barnett Bank board room used to be. It's been discussed on this forum. Amazing views of the river all the way to NAS on the south, and the Dames Point Bridge to the east, and beyond. Sometimes the jets will fly up the river past the tower going to NAS while you are dining. And the best part? It's cheap. It's an Aramark cafe. You can eat lunch for less than $10. (If it's still open. I no longer work downtown, so don't know.)
Sounds like the rent is too damn high. Where is Jimmy McMillan when you need him??
BOA has allowed shops to put Sandwich board style signs out recently. A small step but an admission that signage is needed.
Signage, outdoor seating, sidewalk directories, awnings, separate entrances, window displays, etc. are all options that should be on the table, imo.
Quote from: thelakelander on May 18, 2012, 09:50:43 AM
Signage, outdoor seating, sidewalk directories, awnings, separate entrances, window displays, etc. are all options that should be on the table, imo.
These are just basic things that would significantly help increase visibility for establishments downtown. The fact that these are currently prohibited by the City if baffling. It would cost them no money to allow this.