I've seen a couple of regular posters are Realtors, so I'm throwing this out for comments...Hypothetically speaking, assume you are selling your house and your agent has told the potential buyer's agent that no inside appraisals will be allowed without a written offer. The buyer's agent then tries to set up a showing appointment with the buyer (this would be the third showing for that buyer) and a "friend" who is in reality the appraiser. When questioned, the buyer's agent admits to the planned deceit and says that it doesn't matter because the seller wouldn't know if the "friend" was an appraiser, family member or whatever. Is this cause to file an ethics complaint against the buyer's agent?
Quote from: mvp on May 06, 2012, 06:50:10 PM
I've seen a couple of regular posters are Realtors, so I'm throwing this out for comments...Hypothetically speaking, assume you are selling your house and your agent has told the potential buyer's agent that no inside appraisals will be allowed without a written offer. The buyer's agent then tries to set up a showing appointment with the buyer (this would be the third showing for that buyer) and a "friend" who is in reality the appraiser. When questioned, the buyer's agent admits to the planned deceit and says that it doesn't matter because the seller wouldn't know if the "friend" was an appraiser, family member or whatever. Is this cause to file an ethics complaint against the buyer's agent?
Don't quote me on this, but I do believe realtors have a duty of good faith and fair dealing. Deceitfully bringing an appraiser in would not be good faith and fair dealing. I don't really know enough about filing ethics complaints with the board of realtors, though. And, on a related note, not sure what the point of 'not allowing inside appraisals' is...personally, I'd be very skeptical of a house/seller that demanded a written offer before being able to appraise whatever the buyer is attempting to purchase. How else would you make a legit offer? Last few times I ran into sellers who did this, the sales turned out to be bum deals. One was an agent attempting to sell a listing that wasn't his, another was falling down onto its own foundation. Not good.
Quote from: mvp on May 06, 2012, 06:50:10 PM
I've seen a couple of regular posters are Realtors, so I'm throwing this out for comments...Hypothetically speaking, assume you are selling your house and your agent has told the potential buyer's agent that no inside appraisals will be allowed without a written offer. The buyer's agent then tries to set up a showing appointment with the buyer (this would be the third showing for that buyer) and a "friend" who is in reality the appraiser. When questioned, the buyer's agent admits to the planned deceit and says that it doesn't matter because the seller wouldn't know if the "friend" was an appraiser, family member or whatever. Is this cause to file an ethics complaint against the buyer's agent?
What's wrong with the property that you have to force restrictions barring people from having an appraiser inspect the interior until after they've already bound themselves to a written offer first? That's flying more red flags than china. I guess you can always complain, NEFAR is who you want to talk to. But I think you're wasting your time, everybody's going to hear the fact situation, roll their eyes, and that will be the end of it. It just sounds like a scam to any halfway rational person hearing it. I think the bigger ethical problem is the listing agent who agreed to apply those conditions, people have a right to know what they're getting before they buy it. And "as-is" doesn't really alter a seller's liability, despite what most people think.
Thanks for your replies. There are a couple reasons for the terms. First, some neighbors have had bad experiences with buyers making good offers, keeping the house off the market for 30+ days and then appraisers giving ridiculously low appraisals since we've had a few short sales in the neighborhood. Second, my realtor says that if someone is getting VA or FHA financing, the first appraisal done on the property remains in force for any subsequent VA/FHA buyers. So if you get a bad appraiser, you're screwed. There's nothing to hide - the house is in mint condition and was purchased 4 years ago for cash amongst multiple offers. We are not in a hurry to sell and have a set price that we will accept. There are intangibles that would not show up in an appraisal as well. We don't want to hold the house off the market while someone tries to secure financing. A buyer's realtor can easily look at sold comps to see what the lowest possible appraisal would be and figure how much cash would be needed to make up the difference between the mortgage and the list price, which would be the highest possible sales price. Either someone can afford the house or they can't.
All that being said, the issue is not whether our requirements are difficult or not, but that the buyer's agent was attempting to perpetrate what seems to be a fraudulent act. Could an appraiser come into a home without the buyer's consent or under false pretenses? Chris, help me out on this since you're an attorney!
Bad appraisals can be challenged.
Offer the property with Cash or conventional financing only.
Have it appraised yourself. You should be able to get a very good appraisal if there are true comparable sales
within your neighborhood. Based on that, you can put a copy the under "Documents" tab in the MLS.
Everything else sounds like a waste of time. Your home can appraise at (hypothetically) $100,000
but if there is no one out there who will pay that for it you will have to wait until that buyer shows up.
Thanks, that's good advice.
It sounds pretty deceitful of the Buyer's realtor (and the appraiser). I guess you can file a complaint with FREC (FL Real Estate Commission). You can look up that realtor's license on DBPR's website (myfloridalicense.com).
I am not sure how much power NEFAR actually has to police their realtors.
In all fairness though, I am not sure what, if any harm could come off of some Buyer's unauthorized appraisal. If the Buyer uses it to try and make a low offer to you, just reject the offer. In fact, if you feel that violated, just reject all offers from that Buyer and their realtor. Furthermore, report the Buyer's realtor to his/her Broker.
This is a non-issue. Hopefully the buyer's agent has as good an opinion as an appraiser as to the home's value. (If he/she didn't, buyer needs a more qualified agent.) Buyer can take pictures and show them to an appraiser if buyer thinks the appraiser is more qualified than his/her agent to give a value opinion.
Almost any agent will have access to the information on MLS to see what comparable homes are selling for.
One appraiser = one opinion. Two appraisers = two opinions. If you really want a good idea of value, get 3 appraisals and go with the average of them. You will be surprised at the spread between the three. The pricier the home, the bigger the spread in dollars - maybe in percentages too.
If you need a good appraiser, try Bob Crenshaw's place.
http://www.cwac.com/index.php (http://www.cwac.com/index.php)
Appreciate the advice and referral.
I found the Realtor Code of Ethics http://www.nefar.com/filebin/2012COE.doc (http://www.nefar.com/filebin/2012COE.doc) and noted the following:
• Standard of Practice 3-9
REALTORS® shall not provide access to listed property on terms other than those established by the owner or the listing broker. (Adopted 1/10)
Quote from: mvp on May 06, 2012, 11:08:15 PM
Thanks for your replies. There are a couple reasons for the terms. First, some neighbors have had bad experiences with buyers making good offers, keeping the house off the market for 30+ days and then appraisers giving ridiculously low appraisals since we've had a few short sales in the neighborhood. Second, my realtor says that if someone is getting VA or FHA financing, the first appraisal done on the property remains in force for any subsequent VA/FHA buyers. So if you get a bad appraiser, you're screwed. There's nothing to hide - the house is in mint condition and was purchased 4 years ago for cash amongst multiple offers. We are not in a hurry to sell and have a set price that we will accept. There are intangibles that would not show up in an appraisal as well. We don't want to hold the house off the market while someone tries to secure financing. A buyer's realtor can easily look at sold comps to see what the lowest possible appraisal would be and figure how much cash would be needed to make up the difference between the mortgage and the list price, which would be the highest possible sales price. Either someone can afford the house or they can't.
All that being said, the issue is not whether our requirements are difficult or not, but that the buyer's agent was attempting to perpetrate what seems to be a fraudulent act. Could an appraiser come into a home without the buyer's consent or under false pretenses? Chris, help me out on this since you're an attorney!
Honestly I don't think you have a complaint there, or at least one that anybody will do anything about anyway. You ought to just let the appraiser come in, and as my collleague said, appraisals can be challenged. If they really like the house, they'll just try again with a second appraiser. Although its getting harder now that the banks have such relatively short lists, it still happens, and that process is actually helpful, because if you get two or three all under the price you had in mind, then you know it's time to work on the price. Which you'd never know without the feedback, you're basically just limiting your showings because it seems like you have something to hide when you don't.
As to what you can do, FREC won't do anything unless they steal money or don't pay their license renewal, and NEFAR investigates the conduct stuff, but in this case I don't think it's going to go anywhere. Technically, it's probably an ethical violation, yes.
Quote from: ChriswUfGator on May 07, 2012, 09:12:45 AM
Honestly I don't think you have a complaint there, or at least one that anybody will do anything about anyway.
+1.
Honestly, I think this one is a dead end. What's the point of the ethics complaint? I mean...what are you getting out of it? Sounds like a lot of wasted time, effort, and a fat headache. Let's say, best case scenario, you're right, and the Realtor "did wrong." Do you expect some sort of compensation? If not, is the slap on the wrist the Realtor ultimately gets worth it?
QuoteSo if you get a bad appraiser, you're screwed.
Well that is the RUB, isn't it? The bank, if its a financed deal, is going to use their own appraiser anyway, so you really have no control over who is used. If your Realtor is worth their salt, they will know the appraiser used and have had experiences in the marketplace, if it is an out of town appraiser, ask the bank for a local one, as out of town people have little local experiences, too often.
Don't spend the 500 bucks or so for an appraisal. Just have your realtor provide you with a Broker Price Opinion, BPO, of the values in the neighborhood. That is part of their fee, to provide you with the best information available and make recommendations on what you can/should do, but ultimately, this is your decision.
I agree with the others, let this one roll off your back, trust your gut, and your Realtor's and move on. Get the BPO on the property and use that as leverage with all offers.