Word on the street from a reliable source...anyone know better?
That sucks. They weren't spectacular & it was overpriced for hot dogs/burger king fries, but I kinda liked going there from time to time. And was def the best thing to go into that space in a loooong time.
Stupid concept, dumb location. You could get better food from the nice lady on the Walgreen's corner.
Lack of seating wasn't a problem for them, Stephen. Lack of customers was. Silly to try to blame RAP for this....or you are just trying to pull my leg? It worked too! ;)
I had been there several times and I liked what the place offered. Not having the back patio area to seat people did affect them. The last time I was there people were waiting for outside seating. I liked the concept, thought the food was fine and priced appropriately. If this is true, I am not sure what can work there, as nothing seems to stay long.
Nothing food related will work without that back patio. It's the best spot in the place. BTW, I liked the food, concept and pricing.
Quote from: Dog Walker on May 04, 2012, 07:42:38 AM
You could get better food from the nice lady on the Walgreen's corner.
For some reason, everytime I was looking for an evening snack, she was no where to be found.
Oh, that's right! She's only there for lunch. Silly me.
Quote from: stephendare on May 04, 2012, 07:55:22 AM
Quote from: Dog Walker on May 04, 2012, 07:42:38 AM
Stupid concept, dumb location. You could get better food from the nice lady on the Walgreen's corner.
Lack of seating wasn't a problem for them, Stephen. Lack of customers was. Silly to try to blame RAP for this....or you are just trying to pull my leg? It worked too! ;)
The food was great, and the concept was awesome.
Never had a meal that we didn't enjoy, and the place was usually busy no matter when we went.
It is a problem when hot boxing little housewives get it into their head that they can just arbitrarily decide how many seats a restaurant 'needs' because a li'l ole number just popped into their heads.
The truth is that people outside of the profession generally have no freaking clue how a restaurant works.
Cutting off 25% of his earning potential was a pretty dastardly thing to do. And it totally came out of this pinheaded concept that residential property owners are the only ones with the right to use their property, to the detriment of the commercial property owners.
In this case, a single property owner behind the business has asserted his rights to purchase a home without doing any due diligence whatsoever as to who the adjacent property owner might be.
Nice sense of entitlement.
But hey, its only money right? The owner and his family that put so many many hours and who knows how much in total investment and gave a pretty cool place for the residents of the area to enjoy----what is that compared to the convenience of some jerk who decided after five years or so that he didn't like living behind a restaurant?
Luckily he had an organization that could help him out when it came time to rezoning his new neighbor's property ---- but only after watching the man and his family go through the entire renovation without mentioning his objections a single time until it was too late to do anything but move forward or walk away from the investment.
As an outsider... this information seems kind of innuendo - ish. Is there something more substantial out there to see?
Too bad. Good food, awesome space. I didn't realize the back patio was totally closed off the last time I was there; I can see that losing that would do any restaurant in. It will be missed.
Does the zoning allow for seating out back?
That sucks. I ate there quite often as it was cheap with something to offer other then the pizza or sushi. The inability to eat out on the back patio definitely hurt them.
The location seems like the place restaurants go to die and I was really hoping Alpha Dog would buck the trend.
I think the hotdog idea is great but artisian food...not the stuff from winn dixie. if they;d have made those dogs themselves id be on it. Personally id love to see a good hamburger hotdog place with class and live music....where are the performers?
It seems like different parts of Jacksonville, independent of each other, are fostering extremely anti-business attitudes. Or is it just a few squeaky wheels?
My wife dreamt of opening up an Italian bakery. She gave that dream up. Until we move, anyway.
Quote from: Dog Walker on May 04, 2012, 07:42:38 AM
Stupid concept, dumb location. You could get better food from the nice lady on the Walgreen's corner.
DW, I'm so sorry that Alphadog's existence ruined your life. May you find peace in their passing on.
Without the back patio, Alpha Dog was just one of a dozen places to get a sandwich and a basket of fries in Riverside/Avondale. With the back patio, it would have been the place to be from Thursday night through Sunday afternoon. That was where they could have really set themselves apart as far as experience goes and the menu would have worked itself out. They were really crippled by the person they lovingly referred to as, 'the d-bag in the green house'.
I've had several great meals there. I dunno what the hubbub is about. The Ragin' Cajun is probably the best sausage I've ever had.. Andouille with frickin' Jambalaya on top?!?! Their fries are "meh" but I don't go there for the fries. And the price wasn't that bad.
^Yeah, the dogs (size and variety) were pretty filling for the price, imo. It was a great change of pace from the typical menus in the area.
Quote from: stephendare on May 04, 2012, 08:24:24 AM
Quote from: cline on May 04, 2012, 08:20:29 AM
Does the zoning allow for seating out back?
It did previously. The owner of Alphadog bought the restaurant incorporating the patio which has been used by all previous businesses.
They had the public hearings, spent the money, invested in the business, and at the last moment was blindsided by the sudden exclusion of the back of the property, exactly the same way that Kay was describing in how they limited the property use for the Rogue at the behest of Jennifer Maycheck.
I was not aware of this. So, the back patio was taken out of service based on RAP pressure? Am I reading that wrong?
I don't think it was RAP, but a person that lived behind the establishment. From what I understand, they thought that they had the ability to use the back area when they opened. It turns out they needed an exception to serve out there, and had been battling to get one. In the mean time, they were not allowed to do any serving out there. I have not heard of RAP's involvement in any of it.
I'm far from the situation and have a limited understanding. But since that doesn't stop anyone else, I'll tell you what I know.
It wasn't an issue with the back patio, per se. The issue came from the plans to have live music on the back patio Thursday through Sunday until 2AM each night. The back patio of Alpha Dog hasn't been used for this purpose before. So, the homeowners in the vicinity had a problem with that business model, which was not approved beforehand.
I don't think RAP has anything to do with it. There's a lot of speculation. Will be nice to get some facts.
From the sign on the back patio door, they were not allowed to do service at any time back there. It was closed off during the day, just for dining.
If its true, I'll be sad to see it go. I really like the place (and I don't eat hot dogs!). Nice little bar to grab a drink after work, good reasonably-priced food. It always seemed to be pretty busy. In fact, it probably contributed to business at the nearby antique stores, and it livened up a dead end of Park/King.
Shame they couldn't open the back up, as that is a great space. I don't understand how they could be limited in using that space, at least during the day...I could see after 10pm maybe being a noise issue, but before that, what is the impetus for the restriction? If it is RAP, that reflects poorly on them.
The interior could still use more of a remodel. Its very fragmented for a restaurant space (not that it ever stopped me from going, but a less awkward setup certainly couldn't hurt).
Irrelevant tangent: that Norman's food store needs to be replaced. Its horrendous. They have nothing in stock and what they do have in stock is usually old (went there for OJ and it was 3 months expired - and there were bottles older than that). Are they dealing outta the place or what? I can't fathom how they stay in business.
Quote from: thelakelander on May 04, 2012, 09:16:49 AM
^Yeah, the dogs (size and variety) were pretty filling for the price, imo. It was a great change of pace from the typical menus in the area.
Agreed. Around $6 for a hot dog and fries was a pretty fair price.
My name is Jim Doughfman and I am the owner of Alphadog Grill. I was waiting to comment until I had a chance to talk to the rest of my employees this morning but you guys were too fast for me. Yes, we are closing. It was really a perfect storm of a few issues the patio being one, but also rising costs and the loss of my civilian job that was covering my initial losses. As far as the patio goes, the previous restaurants had all used it in the past without issue. The broker sold me on the space based on the beauty of the back patio. I spent about $25,000 building a tiki bar and beautifying the area including the construction of a small stage that we had planned to use for acoustic music on Saturday and Sunday afternoons sorta like you get on St George st in St Augustine. The Grinch who lives behind me watched me build for 2 months all along knowing that the RAP inspired overlay had created a zoning restriction to any business against using the outside rear area of their business to conduct business if the business shared a boundary with a residential area. We do and he knew that and continued to watch until our grand opening when he called the city inspector and had us shut down. It wasn't about music, it was about conducting any business including serving food. Technically, we weren't even allowed to let people smoke back there. That is the zoning regulation according to the inspector who to his credit felt really bad about shutting us down before we had even had a customer. I would like to say it had been a great ride but the last 2 months have been a financial disaster for me. However, I did enjoy meeting and serving the great people of Riverside, the real reason I chose to open here. Thanks to everyone for the kind words. I know some of you own or run restaurants. I would ask one favor. Please consider my employees for any positions you might have open. They are the best and the brightest and didn't deserve this. Thanks.
Thank you for providing a nice place for us locals to eat and relax. Good luck recovering on your losses and on your future endeavors.
that ain't right.
Jim, you ran a great restaurant and there are many of us who will be sorry to see you go. Good luck with your future ventures.
Jim, I will never forget the support we received from one of your employees who came to one of our land use meetings and sat there for five hours in order to have 3 minutes to speak on our behalf. If she is a representative sample of all of your employees, I would agree they are all great people and highly employable. If you know who I'm speaking about, I'd like to contact her to express my appreciation. You can let me know via this thread, or kickbacks@comcast.net or phone/text 904-759-1747. Thank you and I'm sorry for your experience on Park St.
sad, sad, sad.
Quote from: RiversideLoki on May 04, 2012, 11:18:07 AM
Thank you for providing a nice place for us locals to eat and relax. Good luck recovering on your losses and on your future endeavors.
Well said...
Did the broker know about the back yard restrictions? Seems like there was a misrepresentation somewhere along the line..
Quote from: Kickbackssteve on May 04, 2012, 11:32:23 AM
Jim, I will never forget the support we received from one of your employees who came to one of our land use meetings and sat there for five hours in order to have 3 minutes to speak on our behalf. If she is a representative sample of all of your employees, I would agree they are all great people and highly employable. If you know who I'm speaking about, I'd like to contact her to express my appreciation. You can let me know via this thread, or kickbacks@comcast.net or phone/text 904-759-1747. Thank you and I'm sorry for your experience on Park St.
Thanks Steve. That was Leah, she is my neice. I will give her the message.
Quote from: ben says on May 04, 2012, 01:38:49 PM
Did the broker know about the back yard restrictions? Seems like there was a misrepresentation somewhere along the line..
They didn't seem to and never mentioned it if they did, but it seems like something they should have been aware of I agree.
Quote from: Jimmy on May 04, 2012, 03:12:06 PM
You should consider speaking to an attorney about the representations made to you by the broker that you relied on to your detriment. I have no idea if there's anything there, but a lawyer with the right experience should be able to tell you.
Thanks Jimmy. I'll look into it.
It's an idea. I'm sorry things didn't work out for you. I ate in your place a time or two and enjoyed the dogs.
Quote from: stephendare on May 04, 2012, 08:24:24 AM
Quote from: cline on May 04, 2012, 08:20:29 AM
Does the zoning allow for seating out back?
It did previously. The owner of Alphadog bought the restaurant incorporating the patio which has been used by all previous businesses.
They had the public hearings, spent the money, invested in the business, and at the last moment was blindsided by the sudden exclusion of the back of the property, exactly the same way that Kay was describing in how they limited the property use for the Rogue at the behest of Jennifer Maycheck.
The property use for the Rogue was not limited by any one person's request. (I thought we were done with the blame game). As for Alphadog, the owner himself explained it was a different situation with many factors. I am sorry to see them go, especially before having the chance to participate in their trivia.
Do you mean to tell me a RAP board member watched for 2 months & 25k spent knowing full well he could not use this space...and said nothing to the owner till he was done?
Quote from: stephendare on May 04, 2012, 03:38:17 PM
Quote from: doglover on May 04, 2012, 03:36:30 PM
Quote from: stephendare on May 04, 2012, 08:24:24 AM
Quote from: cline on May 04, 2012, 08:20:29 AM
Does the zoning allow for seating out back?
It did previously. The owner of Alphadog bought the restaurant incorporating the patio which has been used by all previous businesses.
They had the public hearings, spent the money, invested in the business, and at the last moment was blindsided by the sudden exclusion of the back of the property, exactly the same way that Kay was describing in how they limited the property use for the Rogue at the behest of Jennifer Maycheck.
The property use for the Rogue was not limited by any one person's request. (I thought we were done with the blame game). As for Alphadog, the owner himself explained it was a different situation with many factors. I am sorry to see them go, especially before having the chance to participate in their trivia.
Apparently RAP board member Richard C is the man in the green house.
Stephen, just to clarify, Richard C has not been a member of the RAP board for quite some time. That said, I am sad to see AlphaDog close. My daughter loves going to the "hot dog place" and a good friend of mine is a huge fan of karaoke night.
As a former planner with the city, I cannot tell you how many zoning fights were a result of "my realtor told me..." While there may be some realtors and brokers who are zoning savvy, it has been my experience that most are not. This unfortunately causes hardships for many folks who rely on their realtor to give them all of the pertinent information about a building.
When will the last day be?
I don't see a board member named Richard C on the 2012 list.
Quote from: riverside planner on May 04, 2012, 03:56:43 PM
Quote from: stephendare on May 04, 2012, 03:38:17 PM
Quote from: doglover on May 04, 2012, 03:36:30 PM
Quote from: stephendare on May 04, 2012, 08:24:24 AM
Quote from: cline on May 04, 2012, 08:20:29 AM
Does the zoning allow for seating out back?
It did previously. The owner of Alphadog bought the restaurant incorporating the patio which has been used by all previous businesses.
They had the public hearings, spent the money, invested in the business, and at the last moment was blindsided by the sudden exclusion of the back of the property, exactly the same way that Kay was describing in how they limited the property use for the Rogue at the behest of Jennifer Maycheck.
The property use for the Rogue was not limited by any one person's request. (I thought we were done with the blame game). As for Alphadog, the owner himself explained it was a different situation with many factors. I am sorry to see them go, especially before having the chance to participate in their trivia.
Apparently RAP board member Richard C is the man in the green house.
Stephen, just to clarify, Richard C has not been a member of the RAP board for quite some time. That said, I am sad to see AlphaDog close. My daughter loves going to the "hot dog place" and a good friend of mine is a huge fan of karaoke night.
As a former planner with the city, I cannot tell you how many zoning fights were a result of "my realtor told me..." While there may be some realtors and brokers who are zoning savvy, it has been my experience that most are not. This unfortunately causes hardships for many folks who rely on their realtor to give them all of the pertinent information about a building.
When will the last day be?
We will close Sunday at 6pm. After 6p I have invited the employees and their friends and families to eat and drink until the inventory is gone. We do have something special planned tomorrow for our customers. We will be having an "Occupy the Patio Movement" party. I have saved up $250 for the fine. We will open the tiki bar and piss off Richard C one last time.
haha. thats great!
What are the hours for tomorrow? I have a tee time at noon, but would like to stop in afterwards.
Even a former member. A good neighbor, knowing the overlay, should at least have mentioned it to Alphas owner. Right? Anyway, much luck to Jim & what his future holds.
Quote from: 02roadking on May 04, 2012, 04:15:56 PM
...A good neighbor, knowing the overlay, should at least have mentioned it to Alphas owner. Right?
I agree, regardless of whatever affiliation. Holding that information back until the end is a real dick move.
Quote from: Lucasjj on May 04, 2012, 04:15:12 PM
What are the hours for tomorrow? I have a tee time at noon, but would like to stop in afterwards.
10:30am till midnight.
Quote from: respman on May 04, 2012, 03:24:17 PM
Quote from: Jimmy on May 04, 2012, 03:12:06 PM
You should consider speaking to an attorney about the representations made to you by the broker that you relied on to your detriment. I have no idea if there's anything there, but a lawyer with the right experience should be able to tell you.
Thanks Jimmy. I'll look into it.
Bingo. The broker should be carrying Errors &
Omissions/Professional Liability (omissions emphasized) insurance to cover this type of scenario.
Quote from: Lucasjj on May 04, 2012, 04:18:18 PM
Quote from: 02roadking on May 04, 2012, 04:15:56 PM
...A good neighbor, knowing the overlay, should at least have mentioned it to Alphas owner. Right?
I agree, regardless of whatever affiliation. Holding that information back until the end is a real dick move.
+1
The back patio of that property is the best part of it. It is quiet, peaceful, lush, green, and private. Without the live music couldn't the owner have gotten an exception to serve food back there? If every previous restaurant which operated there was able to before why not Alpha Dog? Would definately speak with an experienced attorney before throwing in the towel.
Lesson to be learned: whenever buying a commercial property make sure it is approved for the intended use. This is unfortunately partly the responsibility of the buyer.
P.S. Go back and review the purchase contract and see what it says about land use and zoning. I bet it's mentioned somewhere in there.
Quote from: MusicMan on May 04, 2012, 06:20:12 PM
The back patio of that property is the best part of it. It is quiet, peaceful, lush, green, and private. Without the live music couldn't the owner have gotten an exception to serve food back there? If every previous restaurant which operated there was able to before why not Alpha Dog? Would definately speak with an experienced attorney before throwing in the towel.
Lesson to be learned: whenever buying a commercial property make sure it is approved for the intended use. This is unfortunately partly the responsibility of the buyer.
P.S. Go back and review the purchase contract and see what it says about land use and zoning. I bet it's mentioned somewhere in there.
I lease it. The owner told me he had been using it so I never thought to look at that type of zoning issue, but you are right it ultimately falls on my shoulders to ask the right questions.
this Richard guy sounds like a huge douchbag.
Quote from: fsquid on May 04, 2012, 11:55:58 PM
this Richard guy sounds like a huge douchbag.
Why? because he raised $7000 for gay and lesbian students? Or because he exercised his rights as a citizen?
:o ::)
Quote from: fsquid on May 04, 2012, 11:55:58 PM
this Richard guy sounds like a huge douchbag.
While hearing one side of a story from anonymous people on the internet might make him sound like that, the reality couldn't be further from the truth. He is one of the warmest, most considerate, and generous people I know. This discussion shouldn't be made personal to anyone. That's the last I'll say about Richard in this regard.
I never intended this to turn into a personal attack on Mr C. The truth is although I didnt appreciate his waiting till I opened to complain, the ordinance was the ordinance and I was violating it whether he called the city or not. His blessing would have only postponed the inevitable. Maybe it helps me get a variance, but it doesn't change the law. Personally if business owners have to pay property taxes on all of their property, they should have the right to utilize all of their property. If my backyard is useless to me, why do I have to pay for it?
^Good point.
Can I just say that this biz would be perfect for a mobile food truck. :) Not a run of the mill hot dog cart, but a truck where you could pretty much keep the exact same menu.
Too bad we live in a city that would run it out of town. But still, I'd gladly pay $5-$6 for a "gourmet" style hot dog, with chips or fries (without having to tip servers). I think the overhead of the business as it was (rent, buildout, server staff, etc) was probably too much to stay in it for this type of food.
Quote from: peestandingup on May 05, 2012, 06:58:55 PM
Can I just say that this biz would be perfect for a mobile food truck. :) Not a run of the mill hot dog cart, but a truck where you could pretty much keep the exact same menu.
^Agree here as well.
A lot of great people have come to me today and offered wonderful advice. I can't thank all of you enough. Some new possible options have come to light so all may not be lost after all. I will update if anything solid happens. Thanks again to everyone for the support.
Since I was born shortly after the last Pterodactyls dog was grilled, I think I can score this place pretty well. As some of you kn ow, I was poisoned during the Vietnam War, and the battle's have been raging in my digestion ever since. I purposely walk very carefully when I venture into a new menu, just as you would tip toe through a mine field, for me it IS a minefield.
But for reasons known only to God, Alpha Dog has been different. My first visit I decided to roll the dice and go for one of the Signature Dogs. The Godfather, this little piece of heaven on Italian Bread with Grilled Italian Sausage, marinated mushroom and marinara covered in melted mozzarella and Italian spices, was incredible. Flavorful to the max, I was surprised when it seemed completely at peace in my gut. Finally I had found a gourmet meal that didn't set off a nuclear chain reaction. The best damn sausage dog I've ever had, and that includes quite a few countries and continents.
You just have to know that I was going to order 'The Hippie', when I did I wasn't disappointed. While I usually prefer a meat and potato's type of dinner, due to conditions beyond my control, there are times when a Grilled Veggie Dog on whole wheat bun with guacamole, tomato and carrot, was just what the doctor ordered. Again I was pretty damn amazed, any of you old 'freaks' that hadn't tried this missed a real treat.
With my "Okie" roots and my Oklahoma State Pride bubbling to the surface from time to time, 'The Cowboy' was a meal I couldn't say no to. The Cowboy a ¼ lb kosher beef dog with Cheddar Jack cheese, Honey BBQ and Smoked Applewood
brought back memories of the chuck wagon festival at the Cowboy Hall of Fame - The Smithsonian of the Amerian West. The only thing missing from this meal was the skillet made apple cobbler, served on the tail gate of a 1885 model Studebaker wagon.
This was a little restaurant with taste that could literally take you there... I even toyed with the idea of suggesting some new items, maybe a 'Colombian Dog' featuring Spanish Chicharon, served on pan de queso.
I is never too late to try again, even if you must create a whole new vehicle for exposure, I think you'll do well. Think about this, 4 times a day (with luck it will soon be 6) from 100 - 200 persons gather at the Amtrak station on the northwest side of town... there is NO food service except for the usual plastic wrapped vending machine types. This is just one of many locations that might do quite well with a food truck. Toss in the local railroad yards, securing permission to sell from your truck just outside the office at Moncrief, Baldwin, Simpson and/or Bowden.
IN ANY CASE, DON'T QUIT! Where ever you land, I'll be among the first to tell my friends and family that one can't go wrong at Alpha Dog. Put me down as a huge fan.
OCKLAWAHA
Quote from: stephendare on May 05, 2012, 10:42:37 AM
Quote from: BridgeTroll on May 05, 2012, 10:25:05 AM
Quote from: fsquid on May 04, 2012, 11:55:58 PM
this Richard guy sounds like a huge douchbag.
Why? because he raised $7000 for gay and lesbian students? Or because he exercised his rights as a citizen?
:o ::)
Perhaps the hypocrisy of having more people at his parties than would be legally allowed at a business, serving alcohol until the wee hours of the morning, with dance music playing but then campaigning to keep his neighbor from exercising those same rights?
bingo. The Richard guy is correct in the law on this one, just a douchebag in the way he did it. Everyone has an opinion, that one is mine.
Do you know Richard? Do you know if you have the right facts about this? Real easy to denigrate people or behavior when you are anonymous--safe behind your poster ID. This forum has devolved in a way that makes me not want to participate.
You've always needed an exception for outside sales and service. Quit blaming everything on the Overlay. It just shows you don't know what you are talking about.
This was clearly a situation that the Neighbor and Jim should have been communicating from the start.
Jim seemed sincere in doing only acoustic with no amplification and the noise would have been akin to a "Dull Roar" like any casual neighborhood parties. This could have been further loosely enforced by keeping everyones voices down. (loosely enforced by the help of fellow regular patrons)
THEN...there could have been the kindhearted acception granted by the neighbor whom was genuinely interested in his area having a breathing scene and cool chill spot in a great block of Riverside.
If he didn't like it "after giving it a try" he could have brought Thor's hammer down. But in this economy please give the entrepreneur a chance...if only because it is an American Tradition!
I would've installed a gate in my backyard fence, so I could get easier access to the dogs, brats, schnitzel, beer and music. My fee for not calling code enforcement would be one beer and one of the above meat-like products. Problem solved.
FWIW, I think the neighbor could have advised the business owner regarding the restrictions and that a wait and see approach could've been utilized. I don't know the guy and I think the d-bag term is getting overused these days,(that or we're being overrun) but calling code enforcement before there was an issue (regardless of whether he was within his right to do so) seems wrong.
This issue does point out how confusing zoning and land use regulations can be to the average person. This particular situation could have occurred anywhere in Jacksonville. It's an informational situation a business friendly city needs to resolve.
Lakelander , You as well as I have lived in different cities, This kind of issue wouldn't even be brought up in Atlanta...
The neighbors that live around establishments like this understood where they were buying or renting and enjoyed the shops instead of claiming some sort of selfish "Resident Entitlement" (Thinking about 5-Points).....
Oh I forgot ...I live in Riverside..(Slaps head)
Just looked at the Realtor maps, and couldn't help but notice that Richard is not directly behind Alpha Dog.
That large apartment building is, Richard only borders a corner of the Alpha Dog property.They share no common property lines, and his house is about 60 feet from the property line. I doubt he would have even heard acoustic music performed in the patio area while inside his home.
I'm sad to see they are closed. We never had a bad meal there. I did comment to my husband that the last time we did take out it seemed a little sparse but that happens with take out from time to time so I wasn't concerned.
The place was always busy when we were there and I know others that visited regularly too.
What is the issue with daytime use of the back patio? Does the overlay actually say you can't use an outside space at any time if it is adjacent to a residential property? If so, that's silly and hopefully not part of the intent of the overlay. What about the antiques stores next door that have items in their back yards? Are they in violation of the law? Law getting in the way of common sense.