that took a long time.
Yeah, we saw it from 17 when we were headed down to the GF's aunt's house in Ortega. Woohoo!
The only downside is we can't fish from it anymore. Boooo! :)
Quote from: TheCat on May 02, 2012, 12:46:47 PM
that took a long time.
Well Played, sir.
(http://i906.photobucket.com/albums/ac266/nonickbrand/gifs/Clap-2.gif?t=1269542727)
Quote from: RiversideLoki on May 02, 2012, 12:52:32 PM
Yeah, we saw it from 17 when we were headed down to the GF's aunt's house in Ortega. Woohoo!
The only downside is we can't fish from it anymore. Boooo! :)
Really?!
Ortega is going downhill fast...and every time the bridge closes for extended periods of time (which is frequent in the last few years) it gets worse and worse.
The beach is becoming more and more appealing to more people than ever before, my parents included. Unofficially, if they can sell their house (their house is one of a good many for sale in Ortega now, especially riverfront), they will purchase a condo in PVB. The exodus is real and has been happening for a few years now.
Wahoooooo! For how long ?(!)
Quote from: simms3 on May 02, 2012, 01:06:50 PM
Ortega is going downhill fast...and every time the bridge closes for extended periods of time (which is frequent in the last few years) it gets worse and worse.
The beach is becoming more and more appealing to more people than ever before, my parents included. Unofficially, if they can sell their house (their house is one of a good many for sale in Ortega now, especially riverfront), they will purchase a condo in PVB. The exodus is real and has been happening for a few years now.
My problem with Ortega is 2 fold. You can hardly go anywhere without having to use that hellhole called Roosevelt, and secondly, it's SO FAR from everything.
QuoteOrtega is going downhill fast...and every time the bridge closes for extended periods of time (which is frequent in the last few years) it gets worse and worse.
The beach is becoming more and more appealing to more people than ever before, my parents included. Unofficially, if they can sell their house (their house is one of a good many for sale in Ortega now, especially riverfront), they will purchase a condo in PVB. The exodus is real and has been happening for a few years now.
Uh, yeah, the property values will tell a different story. I didn't see where the City leveled old historic homes and put up projects, but the bridge has been down a while and most of the inner part of Ortega has been separated from the outside world. The bridge is old, as old as some of the houses between the body of water. Congrats to your parents for moving, but some of the most valuable homes, as listed by the COJ property appraiser, still reside in Ortega. I don't see the mass exodus, in fact, I see more people moving in, being thankful they don't have the crazy RAP restrictions. I know a few Appointed people in the City who left Avondale to Ortega to not have to deal with the Code Enforcement Nazis.
Quote from: ben says on May 02, 2012, 01:22:44 PM
Quote from: simms3 on May 02, 2012, 01:06:50 PM
Ortega is going downhill fast...and every time the bridge closes for extended periods of time (which is frequent in the last few years) it gets worse and worse.
The beach is becoming more and more appealing to more people than ever before, my parents included. Unofficially, if they can sell their house (their house is one of a good many for sale in Ortega now, especially riverfront), they will purchase a condo in PVB. The exodus is real and has been happening for a few years now.
My problem with Ortega is 2 fold. You can hardly go anywhere without having to use that hellhole called Roosevelt, and secondly, it's SO FAR from everything.
Having grown up in Orange Park and having used both Blanding and Roosevelt Boulevards, I have much more praise for U.S. 17 when it comes to getting in and out of Jacksonville.
Unless you live in Ortega Forest there is a greatly reduced need to use Roosevelt. The Ortega commuting patterns to get just about anywhere are to use the Ortega Bridge through Avondale and Riverside and up the 95 ramp right there near RPDS.
Also, there really is an exodus. So much so that PVB listing agents are coming to Ortega and Avondale to help local agents (like my mother) convince sellers to come down in price. That was the methodology at the beach, and now the beach is sold out and you can hardly find a home to buy, let alone a lot to build on.
There is always a little bit of a move from non-river to the river (my parents did, as did my uncle, and my grandmother did the reverse when my grandfather passed away), but now there is an even larger move to the beach. There was always an issue with RAP preservation code enforcement, which probably prevented my parents from looking at Avondale when they bought the house they live in now (we were looking for a fixer upper and a house we could add onto...would have been difficult in Avondale).
Bottom line is that Ortega has big problems ahead. It won't compete with PVB. For intown neighborhoods, most of the transplants are moving to San Marco, and they certainly are not coming to Ortega and fewer are coming to Avondale.
Finally, some of the biggest houses in Ortega are currently on and off market for 50-60% what they could have sold for 5-7 years ago. Similarly sized and prominent homes in PVB just did not see that level of depreciation. We are selling 550 SF studios in a condo tower in an off area of Manhattan right now for more than some of the good size waterfront homes in Ortega. That's how bad it is.
QuoteAlso, there really is an exodus. So much so that PVB listing agents are coming to Ortega and Avondale to help local agents (like my mother) convince sellers to come down in price. That was the methodology at the beach, and now the beach is sold out and you can hardly find a home to buy, let alone a lot to build on.
I don't believe that for a minute. Congrats to your parents and your mother, my wife is a realtor with Prudential Network Realty and last year the Avondale/Riverside/Ortega office led all the other offices in the city in total sales. This included Ortega. There are always exceptions, but Ortega will always be a draw with St. Marks, the square, and the desire of people to move to Ortega who want more yard and more amenities, such as the FYC or TCC. My yard is 60 feet across in Avondale, not much for what you can get with double and triple the lot width in Ortega and there is more land to allow people to live there. Its a tradeoff, urban living in Riverside and Avondale or Family living in Ortega.
As the populations age as well, moving people to a condo or a retirement area are not easy decisions. Many people love the homes they raised families in, and many are being retro-fitted to accommodate living on the ground floor, for people with problems walking. The older homes are going through as much change as the people are living inside of them, because people love the areas they live in.
No doubt there are good deals abound in the world of real estate, but there are PLENTY of homes for sale on the ocean down ponte vedra blvd. As you go to the TPC next week, take a look at all the options available, at the beach for residences, there are far more than you lead us to believe. If there are not, watch out, the builders will be tearing down and building new, and the vicious cycle will have returned.
All true statements, but they don't dispel the other truth that many in Ortega (and Avondale) are moving to the beach. St. Mark's is a big draw, but FYC and TCC are no longer the draw they were (and membership at both has plummeted to unsutainable levels). Furthermore, because Ortega is such a tight knit "high brow" (or so some think) society, many transplants shy away from the neighborhood and prefer San Marco or just about anywhere on the SS.
And to add, those who are dropping a chunk of cash on a home do not want to put that cash across the street from very rundown homes. What wasn't a problem before is now turning into a huge problem - for both Ortega and Avondale. That is overall appearance. Most of Ortega and a good half of Avondale look pretty rundown compared to other parts of town.
Compound that with the feeling of isolation to those not accustomed and the overall "old" feel and appearance of the neighborhood (and I'm not talking historical, I'm talking seedy/spotty/unmaintained).
My mother is in the same office. She was selling all the waterfront homes up until '08 (well and a couple others), and now still lists them, but they don't sell. Her business has ironically suffered more than my father's (who's in commercial), and a lot of what she sells nowadays, if at all, is no longer in Ortega.
I grew up in the neighborhood, but could never picture myself living there unless it were to drastically change and go the opposite direction. The bridge being closed all the time is sort of the icing on the cake, metaphorically sealing off the neighborhood from the world.
QuoteSt. Mark's is a big draw, but FYC and TCC are no longer the draw they were (and membership at both has plummeted to unsutainable levels).
Wow, that is complete and total horse manure. FYC is profitable as is TCC. If they were unsustainable, they would close their doors, yet they remain open.
Quoteprefer San Marco or just about anywhere on the SS.
Really, people would rather move from their historic areas to the SS? Land of chain and all that is unholy with subdivisions every 50 feet? Or as I call it, the land of septic tanks and no sidewalks - Mandarin Road in particular. People are not moving to San Marco, in fact, they are leaving it, the road is the deciding factor. Look at the square, its not as robust as in years past, people won't drive the road.
Rundown? Uh, no chance there. Again, some of the top properties in Jax are in both areas, while I don't always agree with the property valuations, I can say that I was blown away at some of these multi-million dollar valuations, the Business Journal has a link to the story.
The issue with the riverfront homes is that people used their homes as piggy banks, and thought valuations would continue to rise, when they fell, they could not sell, trapped in their homes. People have jobs waiting for them elsewhere or other solutions, but their homes will not sell for the amount they have invested and they are stuck with them. Plus, some of those prices for homes were using 2006 prices, and we are just not there any longer. Some of the owners are on crack if they think they can get those prices now, and are just unrealistic.
Seeing as how you are a GT grad and a tremendous sales person, do you have a set of knives I can purchase from you? Your mother is a fantastic agent and your dad is a great storyteller. I have nothing but the highest admiration for them both. Keep it real for us in ATL and make us proud!
I took an out of town rep to lunch at biscottis today, and he was stunned at how beautiful the area was, he said he didn't know Jacksonville had anything like this. Doesn't sound too run down to me.