The Jacksonville Regional Transportation Center
(http://www.metrojacksonville.com/photos/thumbs/lrg-3383-p1070726.JPG)
On January 10, 2008, the FDOT hosted a public hearing to showcase their plans for a new $147.65 million transportation hub.
Full Article
http://www.metrojacksonville.com/content/view/691
This is a step in the right direction but I am not crazy about the layout. It seems a little spread out to me. We have the oppurtunity to build something that the people of Jacksonville will use for many years. Let's do it right.
I agree. The design still has such a "sprawl" mentality behind it. People around here need to think in the 3rd dimension -- vertical.
Maybe they should shuck the Convention Center behind the original Beaux Arts terminal,
and use the footprint of the exhibit halls for as much of the JTA or Greyhound facilities
as possible, or shift the Amtrack layout.
Someday soon build a decent convention facility at Commodore Point and extend the Futurama train to the new site.
This city confuses me sometimes.
The solutions for the courthouse, transportation center and convention center are all linked, in my opinion.
1. Construct new courthouse on intended moonscape on Adams Street.
This moves the courthouse off the river, eliminates an urban eyesore and anchors the movement of government facilities near Hemming Plaza.
2. Construct new convention center facility on city hall annex/existing county courthouse site
This move would allow for the construction of a modern convention center facility in a centralized location with a convention center hotel (Hyatt) and entertainment options (Bay Street/Landing/Riverwalk) already in place. It also rids the Northbank of an eyesore (the courthouse parking lot).
3. Convert the Prime Osborn property into the transportation center.
There's enough space to do this, plus use a portion of the old terminal for some sort of transportation museum or a relocated MOSH. This also returns the site back to its original use.
4. Sell/lease excess blocks north of Bay Street for private development
The land earmarked for this sprawling transportation center could be used for private infill development, such as affordable infill urban housing. This will result in growing the downtown residential base (creates a market for retail infill) and a profit source for JTA to help pay for the operations and maintenance costs of transit systems, such as urban commuter rail or streetcars.
This four step process would result in solving the problems of several issues hampering the city and enhance the vibrancy of downtown by clusting complementing development together for a chance.
One aspect of a convention center relocation is going to be the ability to expand in the future. A preferable, central location (like the Courthouse Parking Lot) is going to ultimately mean a cap on the square footage of the exhbition space.
That may not be a bad thing, since you will never match the size and scale of certain venues.
If the convention center is constructed to allow for vertical expansion, then it could be doubled in size when the time comes.
Quote from: thelakelander on January 15, 2008, 09:38:27 AM
This city confuses me sometimes.
Sometimes? It confuses me most of the time.
Lake that looks like a letter to the Editor to me. Keep it short and the TU will print it.
well it have my aprovle
This is nuts - this is not a transportation center - this is a series of independent transportation facilities connected via a series of skywalkks.
The major plus side is that these proposed facilities are much less spread out than they currently are. Blocks apart instead of miles. I HAVE to look at the positives.... but I'm still not crazy about the layout.
BTW, does anyone know what "Phase 1" entails?
At least they are not tearing down the Prime Osborne. Kind of amazing actually.
Quote from: Jason on January 15, 2008, 12:10:17 PM
The major plus side is that these proposed facilities are much less spread out than they currently are. Blocks apart instead of miles. I HAVE to look at the positives.... but I'm still not crazy about the layout.
BTW, does anyone know what "Phase 1" entails?
Phase 1 is the Skyway and Transportation management office blocks between Bay and Forsyth Streets. There's no official date for the breaking ground or completion of the additional phases.
(http://www.metrojacksonville.com/photos/thumbs/lrg-3374-p1070732.JPG)
What will the changes to that skyway station include, a parking lot?
What I have yet to understand is why the skyway crossed over W. Bay Street. That terminus would have been a breat addition to eigher a more compact transportation center or an expanded convention center or BOTH! Then, even using their current plan, everything could be shifted down a block.
I was at the meeting fussing with the FDOT guys... When I opened the first volley, you could hear the JTA crew stampede for the back doors.
BUS, it is ONLY FOR BUS,
JTA bus
GREYHOUND bus
BRT bus
"TROLLEY" bus (potato chip trucks)
They consider the Skyway DEAD.
Amtrak or any other rail is an after-thought.
The main buildings are NOT being planned to handle ANY type of Light Rail Vehicle, old or new, streetcar or heritage. They are NOT being designed for double deck buses, or any change in current bus tech. Roof clearance will NOT allow for Trolley Buses, or electric streetcars.
For all of JTA's "We'd like to do rail, someday..." (Blaylock at the DMU show), they obviously have not one dime to spend on doing rail "SOMEDAY" or "TODAY".
I have almost lived at the Prime Osbourne the last few days, over, under and through it. There is NO REASON, why the tunnels can't be used for 4-5 upper level tracks, ending at Park Street Viaduct.
3 More tracks on the lower level at the tunnel mouth, could be for Amtrak on FEC.
Light Rail, COULD come in on two of those upper tracks and dive under the bridge in a tub and about a 8% grade. The Skyway, could do the same thing, or come around back.
There is more then enough room for the entire JTA and Greyhound facility, upstairs there is plenty of room for JTA offices of Transportation "whatever". Even better, there is room for a REAL transit agency offices, and turn the current JTA offices into the highway agency.
I'd love to play re-group the buildings and try and build it all at the "JACKSONVILLE UNION TERMINAL" yes, I knew Prime Osbourne, forget it, sorry Prime, it's JACKSONVILLE UNION TERMINAL... FOREVER!
Ocklawaha
I think the changes at the Skyway station include a 4 level parking garage, with space for shops on the ground floor, a "pedestrian plaza" facing Johnson Street, and BRT stations on both Bay and Forsyth streets. Don't know if it includes a pedestrian bridge across Bay to the Conv. Center / Amtrak station.
Nice post Ock.
Ock, how extensive is the tunnel system you explored? Imo, it needs to be saved and restored at all cost, regardless of if JTA/FDOT incorporate it into their plans or not. At the very least it would be an attractive spot for a railroad or transporation museum. My fear is that they eventually move forward with their plan the way it is drawn up and destroy the tunnel system in the process.
Is Union Terminal protected by any sort of historical designation? If so, wouldn't the tunnels be included as part of the station?
Its on the National Register and its a local landmark. From this image, I would assume the tunnel system is at least longer than the length of a full city block.
(http://fpc.dos.state.fl.us/general/n032953.jpg)
Hey Lake, I found a great site, that helps fill in some of the gaps of the old aerial photos like this...
http://web.uflib.ufl.edu/digital/collections/FLAP/
Thanks, I'm going to have to do a little exploring with that site.
Is this the tunnel entrance in the background?
(http://fpc.dos.state.fl.us/reference/rc09664.jpg)
1943 2C - 206 has the Terminal in it.
(http://www.flarr.com/jtctrack311xa.jpg)
http://www.flarr.com/jtc4.htm
(http://i196.photobucket.com/albums/aa111/Ocklawaha/unionstationtunnels.jpg)
Hey Y'all:
This is very close. Lake, your image shows the main tunnel but not the boarding tunnels. I would love to know which of the side tunnels are left. We could access 2 and saw evidence of a third.
I'm planning to go back soon, as several reporters want to go with me. Let me know, if any of you want to go. Also the old FORD PLANT, let me know when you want to bust in there too.
Sorry about missing tonight, I was at City Council this morning and it went VERY well indeed. Looks like another meeting maybe next Weds. about 1pm.
Ocklawaha
Let us know when you plan to go back out there and to the Ford plant. I'd like to tag along, but I'll have to make sure I won't be missing any meetings at work.
Btw, how did the council meeting go? Steve had taken the day off to attend, but Diane told us it was canceled until next month.