Metro Jacksonville

http://apps2.coj.net/City_Council_Public_Notices_Repository/20120418%20Ad%20Hoc%20Hemming%20Plaza%20Mtg%20Notice.doc

Meeting room is packed. That means about 30 people.

And of course, the meeting is running late...which means I have run to put quarters in the meter, shortly.

Denise lee has arrived. She adjourns the meeting by knocking on the table.

She apologizes for being late with a funny joke.

Denise says...

The last meeting was the closure or when all of the official recommendations were made for hemming plaza. Denise, now invites the director from moca to come up to the table of officials.

Denise, mentions releasing an rfp for vendors to maintain the park.

She is now directing her attention to moca and giving the mic to marcelle, moca directoer, speak on the situation.

She says...

The current situation of hemming plaza is a thorn in our side ( and the library's). Kids and families have been accosted while visiting the museum. Most recent example a kid was accosted and a swastica was marked on  a kids arm .

She believes that programming is the answer to hemming problems. The park has not been activated, yet. Moca, held a nighttime event and 300 people were in the park. Moca is able and willing to take part in the programming.

Denise lee  thanks mica for their support. Redman, now has the floor "will you have more events in the park, moca"

Moca "subsidize the events and yes we can." she continues"we have to win people back, though, that will take a concerted effort"

A gentlemen in a bow tie, now speaks"he is really disturbed by the kid getting marked by the swastika. He is wondering where are the police."

Reiman speaking to the police rep asks what "what's the deal"

Rep from the ups store says "ultimately it all comes back to security. She mentions all of the garbage littered all over the park that occurs during the weekends.

Denise recognizes two reps from the mayors office in the meeting. Warren, in the audience, tells a story about a. Igarette butt.

Dare speaks,"I like Marcelle's use of the word "activation of the park"...rfp is not necessary. Asks, other than money, what  can the ci do to make things easier.

She answer" permitting could be made easier...advertising and marketing...collaborative effort...regular,continual effort...if we only have two months of attention on programming....

Dare asks" should there be a board that the key hemming players set up events?

Denise invites Terri of dvi to the table of officials.

Dvi says "we need a group of people to get together and talk about maintaining the park...."the park needs some love."

Council person, the one in a bow tie...don't know his name...says "we could have small campaign that hemming park is the heart of the city. The most successful way of getting things done is not government it's passionate people who group together and make tags happen.

Denise"this committee will create an advisory board to maintain hemming plaza. Another advisory board."

After Dare asks will there be money for the events Denise says not quite. As usual, we are willing to spend big money to tear down and demolish but not upgrade and improve. 500k for tree removal and furniture management but nothing for event planning. Denise sAys, to clarify, we needed money. We all now we need money.

The Everbank building on Riverside Avenue is now rotating in food trucks five days a week.  Food trucks/vendors, etc. are free forms of programming that could be implemented by simply changing policy.  Issuing RFPs on the former Shelby's coffee space and the Synder Memorial are also free options that will help activate the park's "Outer Square."

The man with the Bow tie somehow compares little league baseball raising funds to hemming plaza maintanence.

Denise says "at the end of the day the city is responsible"

Someone who lives downtown  says one stake holder group has not been mentioned "residents"

He says...

There is nothing downtown for me to enjoy. The moca things and library events make sense. But he asks himself "why would I go to hemming park..." essentially says we need more amenities.

A visually stimulating place and creating table spa that's customer based. So, independent businesses manage their tables...says a resident of the urban core

Another resident comes to the podium...she has a scooter. She saw what they did to the Atlanta centennial park. She essentially says attract the residents to the park and you will get even more people living downtown.

The people in hemming plaza do not have a choice on places to go to....

Denise disagrees with that statement. There are choices. It is a myth that everyone there is homeless.these people are taking advantage of our laws/government.

It is a myth that everyone there is homeless.  Some are rightfully spending their time in the park and taking advantage of the few amenities it still has.  However, they may not fit the demographic profile desired by some.

I'm not sure what's happening....something about government gun laws.

From the audience...not related to the topic of hemming plaza. Food permitting and jso getting rid of illegal vendors. Ultimate point, it should be easier for downtown businesses to get permitted.

Denise lee has a way of inviting people to speak, though ultimately friendly, the potential speaker is not sure if they are invited to speak or about to get arrested.

Historical society  speaks...hemming park is important.

Jason from the general council office speaks...

He says everything  comes down to getting more users in the park.

Food trucks...even if they come downtown there is no place to sit. It's not just special events...it's daily activities that are important. Wehave a captive audience every week...

Mentions Portland 's approach to management...establishing a anchor tenant. In their cases it was Starbucks. Portland has the park programmed more for daily activities. So the question is who will be in charge . Jason, talks about his talk with Jim baily...an operating agreement would have to have the following...
.programming
.plaza is still used as a public forum
.still able to have private events.

Other issues to consider if a private vendor is there
.freedom of speech
.funding
.public forum

Portland funds 1.2 million to maintain their freedom courthouse block.
Who is the operator?
.for profit or not for profit or organization.

Jason is continuing...he uses riverside arts market as an example of private\public partnership.

Redman asks "can art walk vendors pay to be there and fund the park..."

Terri of dvi says "ah, no. We will keep that money."

Denise says, another meeting next week. Lets look at other cities.

So the rfp is going forward...it looks like we are willing to pay for profits to manage the park but not the non profits who are willing to manage...? When mocha, library and other stakeholders are willing to manage money is maybe there.

Denise "we are going to make this happen. Not everyone is going to be happy. No one in the history of the country has gotten all of the votes. Nothing goes without criticism and criticism can be constructive.and the criticism that has happened here has been constructive. "I think we are on a soap box sermon. And like many sermons you want listen but you'd rather go eat lunch. She did just say "they did crucify Jesus." she commends everyone for persevering. She says everyone deserves a right to a quality of life.

Someone cuts off Denis lee to say food trucks are bad. At least he cut off Denise lee.

Meeting over.

Sooo, it sounds like there were a lot of recommendations for added amenities and programming, and yet, things are still moving forward as they always were?  Am I not reading it right?  Again with a bunch of recommendations, which are ignored? 

Edit:  Thanks for the live updates!  Really enjoyed being able to read them.

Lol, there's no places for people to sit if a truck occasionally set up at the park to help draw more use into it?  Are they talking about our Hemming Plaza?  between the ledges, fixed benches, seats and tables, there's plenty of spaces.

What a waste.  "Thanks everyone for your input, but I'd rather go eat lunch."  I wonder where Denise Lee is going to lunch.  If we had food trucks and patio seating in Hemming park, she could have just eaten there.

Sounds like the typical Jacksonville ignore-all-public-input-and-do-what-we-want-anyway kind of a meeting.  Will this all come before the City Council for a vote before it can be finalized? 

She's eating lunch with her mother . I'm not sure where...

Maybe I need to buy stock in a bulldozer company and hand business cards out to the city council.

Has anyone tried reverse psychology? "I think we should tear everything out and pave it!" "Whoa now, wait a minute, we can't just blow money tearing out a perfectly good park!" "....Excellent."

Thanks for the live blog!

The City of Jacksonville's Office of Special Events is located at 117 W. Duval Street.  Please tell me, why can't any of these individuals in that office coordinate (monthly, bi-weekly or weekly) programs for a park that's right across the street from their office!!!  I'm not trying to throw any of these people under the bus or food truck but I'd like to know what are we paying them for if not for special events in public spaces.  Seeems like the director of the department would've taken the initiative to program some events seeing the recent renewed interest from many residents to make the park more vibrant.  To me, it seems like such a waste of time to involve elected City Council members (whom maintains busy schedules) on matters that seems so simple and easy to fix???

Only spend money on extensive park programming, maintenence and restrooms. Problem solved!

p.s. Thanks for the live blog!

Quote from: thelakelander on April 18, 2012, 11:51:48 AM
Lol, there's no places for people to sit if a truck occasionally set up at the park to help draw more use into it?  Are they talking about our Hemming Plaza?  between the ledges, fixed benches, seats and tables, there's plenty of spaces.

I know Denise Lee and Jerry Moran have spent the first months of the Hemminng debate saying the problem was that there was seating so people would hag out too much. Mention food trucks and there is no seating, absurd.

^I know, right? Pretty crazy.

More and more I'm thinking the people who care about the core need themselves a lobbyist or two.

Quote from: JeffreyS on April 18, 2012, 04:15:23 PM

Quote from: thelakelander on April 18, 2012, 11:51:48 AM
Lol, there's no places for people to sit if a truck occasionally set up at the park to help draw more use into it?  Are they talking about our Hemming Plaza?  between the ledges, fixed benches, seats and tables, there's plenty of spaces.

I know Denise Lee and Jerry Moran have spent the first months of the Hemminng debate saying the problem was that there was seating so people would hag out too much. Mention food trucks and there is no seating, absurd.

Once the seating is removed, then there won't be any seating for the patrons of the truck vendors.  That is what they are trying to accomplish.   

Quote from: Jimmy on April 18, 2012, 04:29:12 PM
More and more I'm thinking the people who care about the core need themselves a lobbyist or two.

I have long advocated MJ branching off into a separate but like-minded political group. Make endorsements, raise and donate campaign contributions and push turnout for candidates that 'get it'.  Politics is  about power FIRST and policy second. 

When you can rightfully claim to be the force that elected somebody, THEN they will listen to you, as oppose to giving lip service around election day.   

QuoteSo we will spend twice the amount of money, foreclose the possibility of the surrounding cultural institutions from being able to program the park, raise taxes and create yet another layer of process---only this one would be with a profit motive---all in order to find a legal way to evict rather than outnumber the homeless.

Is the fact that these people (THOSE PEOPLE) are American citizens escaped this city's attention?  (Not to mention the shameful fact that a large number of homeless Americans are veterans).

If (THOSE PEOPLE) are breaking the law, have them arrested.  If not, let (THOSE PEOPLE) enjoy their freedom of assembly in a public park.

Quote from: Jimmy on April 18, 2012, 04:29:12 PM
More and more I'm thinking the people who care about the core need themselves a lobbyist or two.

The urban core definitely needs to gather its strength and let its voice be heard.

 Hmmm.  There is money for hard-scape but no funding for leaving the park alone and spending less to help set up events.  Follow the money connections.  They exist.

 :-X

Quote from: strider on April 18, 2012, 06:33:05 PM
Hmmm.  There is money for hard-scape but no funding for leaving the park alone and spending less to help set up events.  Follow the money connections.  They exist.

So, someone wants a job?  But Strider, that is so cynical.

Sometimes I think the same way about the demos.

QuoteHmmm.  There is money for hard-scape but no funding for leaving the park alone and spending less to help set up events.  Follow the money connections.  They exist.

+1

Give me a budget of $30k annually (instead of the money going to the Ambassadors to move tables and chairs around daily) and I can give you 10 quality events a month in that park... easy.  Easy!!!

I attended the ad hoc meeting today as well. My first. Here's what I took away from it:

- MOCA's ED, Jason Teal, and the random Churchwell Loft resident spoke quite well. Put those three in a room together and I think the problems could be solved in no time.

- Overall, it was a positive tone and meeting. The discussion was broad. The only details I remember being discussed were Stephen Dare suggesting the event permitting process being streamlined for MOCA and Jason Teal explaining the different lease, RFP, etc options the city has and what impact that would make. Everything else was just lightly touched on.

- No mention of the previous meetings suggestions/recommendations (ie, remove trees, etc).

- The three Council representatives leave a lot to be desired when it comes to this issue. They didn't contribute anything of value, other than Lee's positive "can do" attitude.

So what's next with this?  If there was no mention of the previous meetings recommendations, does this mean that the hard-scape "improvements" are still the committee's game plan?  Or has the plan shifted away from the major overhaul and is now focused on management of existing facilities?

After reading today's Jacksonville Daily Record I more fully understand pieces of the proposal.

Wow, this is one of the MOST RADICAL, SADDEST ideas I've ever heard ANY single city ANYWHERE propose. 

This is not just a public park...this is the city's PUBLIC SQUARE.  The square block fronts City Hall, the Federal Courthouse, and the central Public Library. 

The Record states the space might no longer be a public park...that the "City could reserve its right to use the park at its own discretion with 30 days notice to the operator."

So the ability to protest City Hall in the public square would be determined by City Hall?  May as well ignore controversial federal cases as well. 

Cities highlight their public squares as one of their key, if not their MOST, important public asset.  The squares are revered and honored.  They become legendary in their accumulation of important historical events.   

Of all incredible places, the United States, a city will strip control of the assets and free use of its public square.  This is unbelievable and worse than embarrassing. 

Jdog,

From the metting yesterday, Jason Teal described different options for the park.

It could lease the park during specific times, like RAM does with the space underneath the Fuller Warren Bridge.

It could hand over operating the park to a private company, like has been done with the Jags stadium and arena.

Or it could do it all itself.

Those are the 3 options, as I understand them.

If one of the first 2 options come to fruition, whcih is looking probable, then while the park is being leased/operated, that entity has say over who comes and goes. Ie, Occupy Jacksonville protestors wanted to demonstrate at RAM, but were told they could not. As the Jags do with the football stadium.

Or, maybe only a portion of the park could be leased...

(it's all sounds very complicated)

Sounds like they are over complicating what should be a simple and affordable solution.

Contracting out services I could be okay with...giving up an amount of control of the usage of the assets, and the timing of the usage of the assets, in the public square seems troubling (IMHO).   

QuoteSounds like they are over complicating what should be a simple and affordable solution.

Exactly!


With a budget of $30k, I could give you two or three events at the park a week.  It's laughable when you compare that to how much money we spend on hosting events(all the businesses we support make money and beg us to do more).

Quote from: fieldafm on April 19, 2012, 01:47:14 PM

QuoteSounds like they are over complicating what should be a simple and affordable solution.

Exactly!

With a budget of $30k, I could give you two or three events at the park a week.  It's laughable when you compare that to how much money we spend on hosting events(all the businesses we support make money and beg us to do more).

^It really is unbelievable when you think about it.

Our fear of the poor is so great that we are giving up our town square?

You're right, Sheclown.  Those "undesirables " at the park now know that they have a value.  $900,000.00 in capital "improvements" or the value of the land  that is Hemming Park.  Which I would guess is a lot more than that $900,000.00.  That is what this committee is willing to commit to move those "undesirables" out of the park.  I would say our park, but as this committee seems hell bent on giving it a way (or making it unusable), I guess we better get used to the idea that we, the public, will have no public square, have no Hemming Plaza.  It will essentially belong to a private entity.  And do not doubt for an instant that this move to privatize the park is a move to insure those "undesirables" get moved out.  The councilmen on this committee realized that public sentiment was going against their $ 900,000.00 expenditure to move those "undesirables" on, so they came up with this idea and are embracing it 110%.  And once it is sent out, will capital improvements paid for by the city be part of the deal?  Wouldn't want to give your buddy a park that needed work, now would you?

Follow the money trails.  They are there.

Quote from: sheclown on April 19, 2012, 06:36:19 PM
Our fear of the poor is so great that we are giving up our town square?

An unbelievable reality.

The official meeting minutes...

http://apps2.coj.net/City_Council_Public_Notices_Repository/20120418%20Ad%20Hoc%20Hemming%20Plaza%20Mtg%20Min.doc.

Quote from: thelakelander on April 19, 2012, 03:30:56 PM

Quote from: fieldafm on April 19, 2012, 01:47:14 PM

QuoteSounds like they are over complicating what should be a simple and affordable solution.

Exactly!

With a budget of $30k, I could give you two or three events at the park a week.  It's laughable when you compare that to how much money we spend on hosting events(all the businesses we support make money and beg us to do more).

^It really is unbelievable when you think about it.

But this is just the beginning when you think of our so called Public spaces and the Public, Private, Partnership within a newly created Downtown Investment Authority.

So who wants to kayak and fish under our brand new No Fishing signs  not before Waterways next to our Historic Promised 680' Downtown Public Pier?

I am Downtown and why you aren't.

It was announced at the DIA 11/20/13 Board meeting that there is a meeting on Hemming Plaza today at 3pm rm 825 Ed Ball bldg. From what I gathered this is it and I welcome any correction to my interpretation but this project will be moving forward today and there is one maybe two groups that will be making a pitch.

Hemming Update -- Sunday -- Easter Morning.

I'm on the cafe patio .. reading the NYT & the TU .. with Americana and muffin.  Quiet.  I'm sitting, facing the park, behind the iron bars.

A man approaches on the sidewalk over my left shoulder, white fellow, 30 perhaps, wearing beige coat, and  .. mumbling.. "My great grandfather was ..  unintelligible .....".  He leaned over ....."Hey .. do you have a cigarette?"  Don't smoke.  "Can I have some coffee?  I got up and went inside.  He mumbled off.  What would I have done if the person requesting coffee had been somewhat well dressed, and had seemed normal?  In the past, I've made three or four espressos for sidewalk people, as there is nothing close on Sunday mornings.
   
About an hour later, while doing taxes, there are three white people sitting on the steps of the Snyder, one being the fellow asking for a smoke.  All seemed new to area.  Two were gesturing a little excessively -- perhaps alcohol, or via neurological cause.  The fat fellow appears to be texting. From my distance I couldn't determine if one was male or a female.  Two are engaging in lively conversation ... shaking hands several times.
 
Two black fellows, around thirty, come around the corner with plastic bags.  They take aluminum cans from the corner can, from our cans, and from the roll-off dumpster in front of Snyder.  They work fast ... finding perhaps fifteen cans. The fellow with beige coat rises, walks to where the fellows are working the roll-off dumpster, and walks in a circle of about 5' radius.  The two ignore him.

A short Asian fellow walks by, pushing a bicycle with a bucket filled with aluminum cans.  From around the corner, a white woman, somewhat heavy, looks in the trash can near the Snyder ... pulls something out and eats it.

The undetermined sex person stood up and began to walk .... giving evidence of being a male of the species.  There are about thirty people enjoying the park.

Life is good. 

That's a nice slice of life snippet, Ron. Sounds like you can enjoy live entertainment by just walking outside. Happy Easter.

Quote from: stephendare on April 20, 2014, 11:40:42 AM
Well I think its great that even when the city is shut down for Easter there are still a couple of people pulling the metal out of the landfills and using the recycling program.

Its amazing how we create these micro economies and ecospheres even in our dead urban areas.

I wonder what they made of the unfriendly guy reading his newspaper behind bars on Easter Sunday?

Wherever there is hunger ... wherever there is need....  the animal must act to reduce it, else it will die.  The animal doesn't care if the need is satisfied in the woods, in the suburbs, or in the city. 

These fellows, by whatever cause or circumstances, are obviously on the bottom rung of the economic ladder.  I would love to witness some of the fellows who have sequestered themselves high above the masses via obscene wealth, whether in government or business -- as gained via corrupt maneuvering and greed -- be forced to live by gathering aluminum from cans and dumpsters.

And this opinion, primarily because these beasts of greed, as a consequence of their efforts to become obscenely rich, destroyed the economy to the degree that these fellows pulling aluminum have few opportunities for jobs.  Where are the jobs?  Where is equality of opportunity? 

Extracting metal from trash and dumps is good and necessary, as it works to improve the ecosystem.

I suspect these fellows would like to occasionally exercise other options.  Surely the income is seldom sufficient to supply a reasonably good quality of life.

Books?  The noble book.  Let me have them all ... so I can organize them, and make them available to all the curious....

Today at the 7/15/14 Finance agenda meeting 2014-434 Hemming Plaza will have a Public Hearing at the 7/22/14 Jacksonville city council meeting.