(http://economistsview.typepad.com/.a/6a00d83451b33869e20168e9f3787c970c-800wi)
Well that's not ok...
Highest share relative who/what?
Convenient that China, India, Thailand, etc. aren't even mentioned on the list.
How's that working out for Spain, Portugal, Belgium, Greece and Italy?
Well, we could just send those low wage jobs out of the country. Would that make you happy?
Quote from: KenFSU on April 13, 2012, 03:15:23 PM
Highest share relative who/what?
UK, Canada, Ireland, Germany, Netherlands, Austria, Spain, Japan, Australia, Portugal, Denmark, Greece, NZ, France, Finland, Norway, Italy, Belgium
Quote from: KenFSU on April 13, 2012, 03:15:23 PM
Convenient that China, India, Thailand, etc. aren't even mentioned on the list.
Convenient if the only countries you can beat are in the developing world.
Quote from: Kaiser Soze on April 13, 2012, 04:12:17 PM
Well, we could just send those low wage jobs out of the country. Would that make you happy?
Not as happy as it apparently makes you to send middle-class jobs overseas instead.
Quote from: finehoe on April 13, 2012, 04:18:58 PM
Quote from: Kaiser Soze on April 13, 2012, 04:12:17 PM
Well, we could just send those low wage jobs out of the country. Would that make you happy?
Not as happy as it apparently makes you to send middle-class jobs overseas instead.
What middle wage jobs are being sent overseas?
Quote from: Kaiser Soze on April 13, 2012, 04:20:20 PM
What middle wage jobs are being sent overseas?
The section written by Griff Witte in D. Stanley Eitzen and Janis E. Johnston’s book
Inequality: Social Class and Its Consequences is about how the middle-class is shrinking and its effects on the job opportunities for college and high school graduates. One of the glaring problems discussed in Witte’s piece is the outsourcing of manufacturing and tech jobs. Basically, the secure middle class jobs are sent to other countries because labor is cheaper for these companies. In turn these jobs disappear and what is left is lower paying and less secure service-sector jobs. Witte writes of the numerous people that lost their middle class jobs and struggle to find a suitable job that could lead to the American dream. A closer look at outsourcing shows that it can lead to success for many businesses, but what is rarely talked about is what it does to inequality in the social world. Richard C. Insigna and Michael J. Werle wrote about the business strategies of outsourcing in their work,
Linking Outsourcing to Business Strategy. The overwhelming problem with outsourcing is that it causes a larger income gap between the different social classes, it also causes the lower income strata to increase and make the upper strata wealthier and smaller, which leads to greater inequality. Without these middle class jobs, Witte displays that a high-school diploma, and even a college degree could mean less in the coming future because the jobs that will be left will be low wage or highly skilled labor jobs, which are harder to obtain. Witte explains a college graduate’s situation, “And yet, as Moore’s situation shows, a college diploma offers a porous shield when demand for a certain skill evaporates. College graduates have, in recent years, become an increasingly large percentage of the long-term unemployed. When they find new work, their salary cuts have especially deep†. When these jobs “evaporate†it leads to greater inequality and a larger income gap, because people can’t get well paying jobs. Outsourcing may cut costs for certain corporations but the cost to the middle class and economic inequality could be too great to overcome. All this leads to a greater number of people finding it harder to achieve the American dream.
Would like to know what the authors consider middle class jobs
Quote from: KenFSU on April 13, 2012, 03:15:23 PM
Highest share relative who/what?
Convenient that China, India, Thailand, etc. aren't even mentioned on the list.
And here is what we are up against folks. So many who would be perfectly happy if the U.S.A. could bid lower than Bangladesh on labor costs. Lets race to the bottom not just of the developed nations let's show Laos we stand more poverty than those weaklings. That is some real patriotism there.
Quote from: Kaiser Soze on April 13, 2012, 04:20:20 PM
Quote from: finehoe on April 13, 2012, 04:18:58 PM
Quote from: Kaiser Soze on April 13, 2012, 04:12:17 PM
Well, we could just send those low wage jobs out of the country. Would that make you happy?
Not as happy as it apparently makes you to send middle-class jobs overseas instead.
What middle wage jobs are being sent overseas?
Ask any I.T. person you know. Ask any light manufacturing person you know. Ask any heavy manufacturing person you know.
Tell me something I dont know. I'm one of those low wage workers. So much for doing better than my parents. :'(
The Dems were in charge for a majority of the time period that those jobs left and most of those jobs were union jobs. Hmm any correlation? Carp carp carp...the Republicans....carp carp carp....George Bush.....carp carp carp....tax the rich......carp carp carp....talk amongst yourselves
Quote from: JeffreyS on April 13, 2012, 04:57:12 PM
Quote from: KenFSU on April 13, 2012, 03:15:23 PM
Highest share relative who/what?
Convenient that China, India, Thailand, etc. aren't even mentioned on the list.
And here is what we are up against folks. So many who would be perfectly happy if the U.S.A. could bid lower than Bangladesh on labor costs. Lets race to the bottom not just of the developed nations let's show Laos we stand more poverty than those weaklings. That is some real patriotism there.
Are you serious?
Putting a LOT of words in my mouth there for a simple question about the context of a descriptionless three year old chart.
I ask about those other countries because the title of the thread is "The US has the Highest Share of Employees in Low Wage Work," which is misleading and patently untrue.
And I ask relative who/what because if we *are* discussing developed countries, the chart is missing a good 15 countries.
But sorry, didn't mean to be so unpatriotic...
Quote from: KenFSU on April 14, 2012, 12:42:38 PM
Quote from: JeffreyS on April 13, 2012, 04:57:12 PM
Quote from: KenFSU on April 13, 2012, 03:15:23 PM
Highest share relative who/what?
Convenient that China, India, Thailand, etc. aren't even mentioned on the list.
And here is what we are up against folks. So many who would be perfectly happy if the U.S.A. could bid lower than Bangladesh on labor costs. Lets race to the bottom not just of the developed nations let's show Laos we stand more poverty than those weaklings. That is some real patriotism there.
Are you serious?
Putting a LOT of words in my mouth there for a simple question about the context of a descriptionless three year old chart.
I ask about those other countries because the title of the thread is "The US has the Highest Share of Employees in Low Wage Work," which is misleading and patently untrue.
And I ask relative who/what because if we *are* discussing developed countries, the chart is missing a good 15 countries.
But sorry, didn't mean to be so unpatriotic...
Well I will take back pinning those feelings on you.
I am not saying "Ken" but I do believe those race downward sentiments are out there. Perhaps the corporate interest do not want us to race all the way to the bottom but definitely downward.
Just to be clear not sarcastic because I seem to have been wrong on Ken's intent. MY opinion that those feelings exist is now not saying those are Ken's feelings.
Quote from: stephendare on April 14, 2012, 12:52:15 PM
Quote from: bill on April 14, 2012, 12:40:32 PM
The Dems were in charge for a majority of the time period that those jobs left and most of those jobs were union jobs. Hmm any correlation? Carp carp carp...the Republicans....carp carp carp....George Bush.....carp carp carp....tax the rich......carp carp carp....talk amongst yourselves
Well Bill, do you think it was the magic presence of the 'dems' that made those jobs leave?
Lets see if you can (for once) back up one of your sweeping statements with a little fact.
Perhaps you can explain how these jobs you are referring to came to leave the country.
If you would be so kind as to tell us the exact cause, like a bill or an incident and then show us which jobs immediately bailed.
I have confidence that you will be able to unleash the power of google to do this.
Perhaps the tap tap tapping of your key key keyboard will match the carp carp carping that you seem to be hear hear hearing.
I laid out the question that this happened when the dems and unions were in charge. Any correlation? I doubt it but maybe if you read it again you can understand.
Fair enough buddy :)
No worries.
Quote from: stephendare on April 14, 2012, 01:46:55 PM
so then, no. you cannot prove or show examples that would make your statement true?
why do I remain unsurprised?
Go back to your Moms basement and delete the posts that you disagree with or cannot understand
I bet raising taxes on those companies will stimulate more high paying jobs.
Quote from: stephendare on April 14, 2012, 02:00:41 PM
Quote from: BridgeTroll on April 14, 2012, 01:54:50 PM
I bet raising taxes on those companies will stimulate more high paying jobs.
i dunno. since we lowered the taxes on companies whose products were being produced by cheap malaysian labor, they formerly high paying jobs went overseas.
Maybe you mean that we should resume the old tax system which encouraged higher wage labor?
Yes now the highest in the world. Good plan. Damn you might be half as smart as you think you are.
The fact is on this one the Dems have done better at talking but they particularly Bill Clinton have supported free trade. Basic Hamiltonian economics worked fine until we switched to trickle down economics in the early eighties. Hamilton's basic premiss's were tariffs and a well regulated market place for people to compete in. I feel the Sherman anti trust laws were the biggest most successful changes to our economic policy since Hamilton. Since 1980 Republicans and Democrats too have softened tariffs, regulations and anti trust laws to the detriment of the American worker.
So the Dems while clearly an upgrade to the Republicans have not been good.
Quote from: stephendare on April 14, 2012, 02:00:41 PM
Quote from: BridgeTroll on April 14, 2012, 01:54:50 PM
I bet raising taxes on those companies will stimulate more high paying jobs.
i dunno. since we lowered the taxes on companies whose products were being produced by cheap malaysian labor, they formerly high paying jobs went overseas.
Maybe you mean that we should resume the old tax system which encouraged higher wage labor?
I dunno either... but it sure is nice out here at the blues fest! 8)
On my way
Quote from: bill on April 14, 2012, 02:05:15 PM
Yes now the highest in the world.
Lies.
(http://thinkprogress.org/wp-content/uploads/2012/02/corporatetaxcharts0222.png)
Quote from: finehoe on April 15, 2012, 11:04:35 AM
Quote from: bill on April 14, 2012, 02:05:15 PM
Yes now the highest in the world.
Lies.
(http://thinkprogress.org/wp-content/uploads/2012/02/corporatetaxcharts0222.png)
Well that pretty much sums it up doesn't it..
That is why I like to say we should cut the rate 5% but put in a floor of 20% no matter what deductions you qualify for.
The middle class has been shrinking for 30 years + and most of that time the GOP has controlled at at least the White House or both houses of Congress, or both. So Bill, you can drop the false narrative that Dems only created this situation. The truth is both parties have sold out to big business, it's just the GOP did it earlier and more completely.
We are headed for a second guilded age. Without a major reversal, there will soon be a small and extremely wealthy ruling class, and a large working class with little wage distinctions among it.
Quote from: vicupstate on April 16, 2012, 08:18:38 AM
We are headed for a second guilded age. Without a major reversal, there will soon be a small and extremely wealthy ruling class, and a large working class with little wage distinctions among it.
Looking forward to the day.
Hopefully my wealthy, ruling master will see fit to give me a small hut near a small field to grow some crops; maybe some livestock to tend to. I like working outdoors and playing in the garden. Not having to worry about being poor would be great, just make do with what you have.
Quote from: ChriswUfGator on April 15, 2012, 10:19:56 PM
Quote from: finehoe on April 15, 2012, 11:04:35 AM
Quote from: bill on April 14, 2012, 02:05:15 PM
Yes now the highest in the world.
Lies.
(http://thinkprogress.org/wp-content/uploads/2012/02/corporatetaxcharts0222.png)
Well that pretty much sums it up doesn't it..
Not totally...
http://www.ehow.com/way_5202142_effective-tax-rate-calculation.html
Quote
Corporate Effective Tax Rate
Calculating the effective tax rate of a company can be harder because taxable income is not always disclosed in annual reports. Pre-tax income can be used instead of taxable income. You can find the pre-tax income on the income statement and the amount of taxes paid in the cash flow statement. For example if you found that the pre-tax income was $2,000,000 and the taxes paid were $500,000, the effective tax rate would be 25%.
Why Corporate Effective Tax Rates Are Important
When making an investment in a company, investors want to make sure the company is well managed. Because the differences between effective tax rates of companies of equal size that perform similar functions in the same geographical region are generally due to managerial decisions, a company with the lower effective tax rate could have the better administration and therefore be a better investment.
http://www.investinganswers.com/financial-dictionary/tax-center/effective-tax-rate-1229
QuoteEffective Tax Rate
2What It Is:
The effective tax rate is the average rate at which an individual is taxed on earned income, or the average rate at which a corporation is taxed on pre-tax profits.
How It Works/Example:
The formulas for effective tax rate are as follows:
Individual: Total Tax Expense / Taxable Income
Corporation: Total Tax Expense / Earnings Before Taxes
Effective tax rates simplify comparisons among companies or taxpayers. This is especially true where a progressive, or tiered tax system is in place. Those subject to progressive taxes will see different levels of income taxed at different rates. The following is a hypothetical example:
Company A
Annual Pre-Tax Earnings = $600,000
Total Taxes Paid = ($100,000 *10% + $400,000 * 15% + 100,000 * 25%) = $95,000
Effective Tax Rate = $95,000 / $600,000 = 15.8%
Company B
Annual Pre-Tax Earnings = $900,000
Total Taxes Paid = ($100,000 *10% + $400,000 * 15% + $400,000 * 25%) = $170,000
Effective Tax Rate = $170,000 / $900,000 = 18.9%
Why It Matters:
In the example above, note that both Company A and Company B are in the 25% marginal tax bracket. However, this does not provide a fair comparison of their tax exposure. In reality, Company B has much more money taxed at the uppermost rate than Company A, and has to pay nearly twice as much in taxes.
Fortunately, the difference is clearly visible in the higher effective tax rate of Company B (18.9% vs. 15.8%). Thus, effective tax rate is typically a more accurate reflection of a company's tax liability than its marginal tax rate.
It is important to note that the amount of cash tax payments that an individual or corporation actually pays out may differ materially from the amount of tax expense in a given period. This is because most companies prepare two different sets of financial statements: one for reporting purposes and one for tax purposes.
QuoteThis is because most companies prepare two different sets of financial statements: one for reporting purposes and one for tax purposes.
In other words, corporations just make shit up.
Quote from: finehoe on April 15, 2012, 11:04:35 AM
Quote from: bill on April 14, 2012, 02:05:15 PM
Yes now the highest in the world.
Lies.
(http://thinkprogress.org/wp-content/uploads/2012/02/corporatetaxcharts0222.png)
Was bill right? This came from Huffpo so it must be true... ;)
QuoteU.S. Corporate Tax Rate To Be Highest In The Developed World
Posted: 03/30/2012 3:31 pm Updated: 03/31/2012 11:47 am
* Japan's corporate tax rate dropping to 38.01 pct on Sunday
* Combined U.S. 39.2 pct rate will be developed world's highest
By Patrick Temple-West and Kim Dixon
WASHINGTON, March 30 (Reuters) - The United States will hold the dubious distinction starting on Sunday of having the developed world's highest corporate tax rate after Japan's drops to 38.01 percent, setting the stage for much political posturing but probably little tax reform.
Japan and the United States have been tied for the top combined, statutory corporate rate, with levies of 39.5 percent and 39.2 percent, respectively. These rates include central government, regional and local taxes.
Japan's reduction , prompted by years of pressure from Japanese politicians hoping to spur economic growth, will give that country the world's second-highest rate.
This has triggered complaints from U.S. politicians and business groups.
"This isn't an April Fool's Day joke," said Senator Orrin Hatch, the leading Republican on the Senate Finance Committee.
"Every industrialized country around the globe understands that tax rates can determine whether or not businesses succeed or fail," Hatch said in a statement.
Across most of the political spectrum there is broad agreement that the U.S. corporate tax rate is too high, though few corporations actually pay that rate because the loophole-riddled tax code gives them lower "effective" rates.
Republicans and Democrats agree that the tax code needs work. It has not been thoroughly overhauled in 25 years.
In February, President Barack Obama proposed a corporate tax reform blueprint that included a 28 percent top rate.
Republican presidential hopeful Mitt Romney has said he wants to cut the corporate rate to 25 percent.
COMPETITIVE EDGE
The average 2012 corporate tax rate for the 34 developed countries is 25.4 percent, according to the Organization for Economic Co-operation and Development.
"As countries such as Canada and the United Kingdom have moved to reform their tax systems and lower rates to encourage economic growth, America's inaction puts American worldwide companies at a competitive disadvantage and threatens our economic recovery," said Bruce Josten, an official at the U.S. Chamber of Commerce.
Some U.S. companies pay close to the 35 percent top corporate tax rate; some pay nowhere near that, thanks to tax breaks that let them lower their "effective" tax rates.
Of the 30 companies in the Dow Jones industrial average, 19 told shareholders their effective rate for their 2011 fiscal years, mostly ending Dec. 31, was below Obama's proposed new tax rate, according to a Reuters analysis of securities filings.
Of these companies, three - telecom company AT&T, Bank of America, and insurance company Travelers - posted a tax gain.
For the index's other 27 companies, effective rates reported ranged from 2.7 percent for telecom giant Verizon Communications to 43.3 percent for energy group Chevron Corp.
These figures are taxes for shareholder accounting but not necessarily what was paid last year because Congress lets companies defer parts of their income tax for future years.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/03/30/us-corporate-tax-rate_n_1392310.html
Reality Check: Effective U.S. Corporate Tax Rate Much Lower Than Most Other Developed Nations
Republicans have been kvetching today about the fact that, as of Sunday, the U.S. will have the highest statutory corporate tax rate in the world following a scheduled cut in Japan’s corporate tax. “The United States is a world leader in countless ways. ‘World’s Highest Taxes’ is a title we should give up as soon as possible,†wrote Sen. John Barrasso (R-WY) in a Fox News op-ed.
“This isn’t an April Fool’s Day joke; as of April 1, the United States of America will have reached the inauspicious position of having the highest corporate tax rate in the developed world,†said Sen. Orrin Hatch (R-UT) in a statement “I want America to be number one in many things, but having the highest corporate tax rate is definitely not one of them.â€
This is constant refrain from Republicans, who then blame the supposedly high U.S. corporate tax rate for discouraging job creation. But as we’ve noted time and time again, while the U.S. has a high statutory corporate tax rate (meaning the rate on paper), U.S. corporations actually pay incredibly low taxes due to the ever-proliferating loopholes, credits, and deductions in the tax code and the use of overseas tax havens.
U.S. corporate taxes that were actually paid (the effective rate) fell to a 40 year low of 12.1 percent in fiscal year 2011, despite corporate profits rebounding to their pre-Great Recession heights. The U.S. both taxes its corporations less and raises less in revenue from corporate taxes than its foreign competitors.
Politico’s Ben White also pointed out that Japan has a value added tax, so it isn’t actually true that the U.S. will have the highest corporate tax rate on Sunday. As billionaire investor Warren Buffett has said, “it is a myth†that U.S. corporate taxes are high. “Corporate taxes are not strangling American competitiveness,†Buffett added.
Of course, it is theoretically possible to lower the U.S. corporate income tax rate while simultaneously raising revenue to help reduce the federal deficit by closing loopholes and cracking down on tax havens. But Republicans have absolutely no interest in that.
There are plenty of republicans who are for closing "loopholes". The problem is the definition... to some "loopholes" are incentives or tax breaks to help with foriegn competitors. For example...
http://www.accionusa.org/home/small-business-loans/green-business-resources/green-business-resources.aspx
QuoteWhat incentives and regulations are available for green businesses?
Green Business Incentives:
There are green tax incentives and green business tax credits for businesses of all sizes.
At the federal level, examples include an energy-efficient commercial buildings tax deduction, a business energy reduction tax credit, an energy-efficient appliance tax credit for manufacturers, and a new energy-efficient tax credit for green-savvy builders.
At the state level, many are eager to attract renewable energy companies to their region, and offer tax breaks to get them there. Washington State, for example, charges no sales tax on renewable energy equipment produced or sold there. And some forward-thinking cities are beginning to offer "density bonuses" and green building incentives to developers and builders to encourage sustainable land use (From "Get Tax Incentives for Green Living." )
There are thousands like this. A smart corporation finds all the incentives or "loopholes they can find to lower their tax rate... just as you do on your income tax filing... :)
Quote from: BridgeTroll on April 16, 2012, 10:00:06 AM
There are plenty of republicans who are for closing "loopholes".
Who are these Republicans, and which "loopholes" have they suggested closing?
Me... all of them... then lowering the corporate tax rate to be in line with the rest of the world.
Quote from: BridgeTroll on April 16, 2012, 10:06:03 AM... all of them...
BT's been possessed by Sarah Palin!!
Quote from: finehoe on April 16, 2012, 09:39:47 AM
QuoteThis is because most companies prepare two different sets of financial statements: one for reporting purposes and one for tax purposes.
In other words, corporations just make shit up.
No, they have to produce GAAP financial statements to investors and also have to have a set using the tax rules so they can get a jist on what their tax bill is going to look like.