The City Council is basically telling JTA to focus on mass transit.
Wow.
http://jacksonville.com/news/metro/2012-03-29/story/jta-might-soon-be-out-road-building-business
So is this considered a good thing or a bad thing?
I was just about to try and post this--and probably not succeed...
Anyway, I was blown away to see this. Could it be that the chance to fix a royal f--kup has come?
Ocklawaha, is destiny calling you, sir?
Anti Redneck, this is not only good, it is downright awesome! If they can shift to mass transit only and hire a really qualified director, good things will happen for Jacksonville. I just hope the idiots on the council keep their mouths closed and let Bishop and Crescimbeni do the talking on this issue. It is nice to see the two of them become a little bolder on issues such as mass transit. I think having a supportive mayor on their side probably helps.
Well let's see what becomes. I'm on board.
I had a conversation tonight with someone pretty high up that leads me to believe this will happen fairly soon
On a related note, a new strategic plan was to be presented to the JTA Board today
Strategic plan developed by and presented by who?
Quote from: Kay on March 29, 2012, 10:01:43 PM
Strategic plan developed by and presented by who?
It is a stretegic plan for the agency...developed by staff...and presented to the JTA Board
an interesting issue not raised in the article
the current gas tax can be used for capital AND operating costs...sales tax dollars can NOT be used for operations
so getting rid of the gas tax and instead using sales tax for transit won't help operate the system
woot woot almost knocked me off my seat! Great news!
Just read it. Fucking awesome! Man this got my pumped. We need a new direction in this city. Let get it right for ONCE. Its about time the city government pimp slaps JTA.
Nice. I'm glad this is being discussed by city leaders instead of just on MJ forum boards.
Quote from: stephendare on March 29, 2012, 11:37:28 PM
Quote from: thelakelander on March 29, 2012, 11:27:34 PM
Nice. I'm glad this is being discussed by city leaders instead of just on MJ forum boards.
All it took was perseverance and patience.
Thanks Stephen and everyone invovled.!
Now that this matter has been accomplished, let's try to get our other concerns pushed through. Like downtown for example.
Needless to say, I am thrilled with this.
Quote“There just isn’t going to be a lot of money for road construction right now,†Jones said. “And we need to find a better way to get people around town.â€
Let us show you Councilman Jones. It starts with the Mobility Plan.
I don't want to downplay the news, as it's good to hear, but there's still going to be a problem with the people currently at JTA. Right now JTA is a good road building agency and a poor public transportation agency. Just telling them to change their focus from the thing they're good at to the thing they're not good at isn't going to solve the issue.
Quote from: dougskiles on March 30, 2012, 06:13:12 AM
Needless to say, I am thrilled with this.
Quote“There just isn’t going to be a lot of money for road construction right now,†Jones said. “And we need to find a better way to get people around town.â€
Let us show you Councilman Jones. It starts with the Mobility Plan.
+1
Which will work as shown by 7-Eleven. They want to do major expansion throughout the market but did they rush to the suburbs where the mobility fee moratorium would would have granted them the biggest relief or the core where they wouldn't have the fee even after the moratorium sunsets? They went to the core because businesses gravitate to where they think their business model works best not to where the city council has given insider benefits to the local good ol boys. You seem to be learning city council learn from the Mobility Fee Moratorium mistake as well.
Quote from: Tacachale on March 30, 2012, 09:09:19 AM
I don't want to downplay the news, as it's good to hear, but there's still going to be a problem with the people currently at JTA. Right now JTA is a good road building agency and a poor public transportation agency. Just telling them to change their focus from the thing they're good at to the thing they're not good at isn't going to solve the issue.
I think you state it too strongly that it won't solve the issue but it may not. If they are competent in the area they have chosen as the higher priority that competence may well translate to new priorities. Plus they are getting new leadership.
Quote from: Tacachale on March 30, 2012, 09:09:19 AM
Right now JTA is a good road building agency and a poor public transportation agency. Just telling them to change their focus from the thing they're good at to the thing they're not good at isn't going to solve the issue.
The change starts from the top and works its way down. A new leader brings in new people. No different than what Mayor Brown has done. It doesn't happen over night. But it doesn't happen at all without a change in focus directive from the city leaders.
Maybe JTA can steal Jesus Gomez away from Gainesville's RTS. My only experience with them is on Gator gameday but color me impressed.
Quote from: urbanlibertarian on March 30, 2012, 02:03:46 PM
Maybe JTA can steal Jesus Gomez away from Gainesville's RTS. My only experience with them is on Gator gameday but color me impressed.
I completely DISAGREE with this. RTS is much smaller than JTA. We need someone from a LARGE city mass transit like METRO from NYC or BART from San Francisco. Someone who is already familiar with the state of the art services and efficient operations and compare to JTA to push for massive improvement.
In other words, I wouldn't mind if Uncle Ockie would be the director of JTA.
-Josh
JTA needs someone with strong transit background. Preferably with fixed guideway transit i.e. streetcar, LRT or Commuter Rail. I would suggest look outside Florida to Charlotte, Houston, Dallas, Austin, Salt Lake City, Portland, San Diego, Sacramento, San Jose, Minneapolis that should be a good start.
Chicago's Metra (commuter rail) has done quite well on a shoestring budget.
Quote from: fsujax on March 30, 2012, 02:45:12 PM
JTA needs someone with strong transit background. Preferably with fixed guideway transit i.e. streetcar, LRT or Commuter Rail. I would suggest look outside Florida to Charlotte, Houston, Dallas, Austin, Salt Lake City, Portland, San Diego, Sacramento, San Jose, Minneapolis that should be a good start.
+1
Maybe they'll finally kill that stupid sprawlling ass transit hub. And go back to the drawling board with a more compact and major city like atmosphere.
Quote from: fsujax on March 30, 2012, 02:45:12 PM
JTA needs someone with strong transit background. Preferably with fixed guideway transit i.e. streetcar, LRT or Commuter Rail. I would suggest look outside Florida to Charlotte, Houston, Dallas, Austin, Salt Lake City, Portland, San Diego, Sacramento, San Jose, Minneapolis that should be a good start.
I wonder if Jta will offer a competative salary.
well, for the Director of SLC UTA to come here it take $400,000 a year salary.
Quote from: Bill Hoff on March 29, 2012, 09:03:34 PM
The City Council is basically telling JTA to focus on mass transit.
Wow.
http://jacksonville.com/news/metro/2012-03-29/story/jta-might-soon-be-out-road-building-business
All this really is - lazy journalism. Larry Hannan went to he same two people in City Council who he knows hates JTA and asks them for a comment. And guess what - he got exactly what he wanted. Bishop and Crescembeni have made it very clear over the past eyars that that don't like anything about JTA. Crescembeni is still bitter about JTA gettign the go-ahead from council (over his objections) to put up bus shelters with advertising. Bishop thinks he can design roads/bridges/overpass/etc better than anything JTA can do. Have you seen his portfolio - not very impressive.
Come on Larry - work a little harder. There are 19 members on the council. Maybe ask a question of the other 17 and see what happens. Nope. Better to go back to the quote machines. Weak!
Quote from: fsujax on March 30, 2012, 03:19:49 PM
well, for the Director of SLC UTA to come here it take $400,000 a year salary.
How much did Blaylock make?
Quote from: stephendare on March 30, 2012, 03:46:57 PM
Quote from: exnewsman on March 30, 2012, 03:35:52 PM
Quote from: Bill Hoff on March 29, 2012, 09:03:34 PM
The City Council is basically telling JTA to focus on mass transit.
Wow.
http://jacksonville.com/news/metro/2012-03-29/story/jta-might-soon-be-out-road-building-business
All this really is - lazy journalism. Larry Hannan went to he same two people in City Council who he knows hates JTA and asks them for a comment. And guess what - he got exactly what he wanted. Bishop and Crescembeni have made it very clear over the past eyars that that don't like anything about JTA. Crescembeni is still bitter about JTA gettign the go-ahead from council (over his objections) to put up bus shelters with advertising. Bishop thinks he can design roads/bridges/overpass/etc better than anything JTA can do. Have you seen his portfolio - not very impressive.
Come on Larry - work a little harder. There are 19 members on the council. Maybe ask a question of the other 17 and see what happens. Nope. Better to go back to the quote machines. Weak!
Meh. It would be even lazier to simply accept these ad hominem attacks on bishop and Crescimbini as the gospel.
Ive been told the same thing by at least four other council people, so I don't think that Larry Hannan is too far off
Well I'm sure that BB and JC are glad you have their back. Doesn't make my comments any less true.
Thank you sir.
Quote from: exnewsman on March 30, 2012, 03:35:52 PM
Quote from: Bill Hoff on March 29, 2012, 09:03:34 PM
The City Council is basically telling JTA to focus on mass transit.
Wow.
http://jacksonville.com/news/metro/2012-03-29/story/jta-might-soon-be-out-road-building-business
Bishop and Crescembeni have made it very clear over the past eyars that that don't like anything about JTA.
Well honestly, what is there to like about JTA? Unless of course you like a piss poor mass transit system run by an inept organization.
As far as laziness...you've got the head of JTA pushing 300k a year and quite a few others getting close to 200k a year that all basically do nothing. Now that's laziness. But hey, I guess you can't really blame them. I mean, why actually try and do anything when you're making a six figure salary off of the taxpayers and you have no accountability.
The thing that gets me is the duplication of administrative effort. FDOT is more than capable of managing road construction projects on a larger level. And COJ Public Works does a fine job on the smaller city projects. There simply is no need to have a third group in the mix.
Quote from: dougskiles on March 30, 2012, 08:06:07 PM
The thing that gets me is the duplication of administrative effort. FDOT is more than capable of managing road construction projects on a larger level. And COJ Public Works does a fine job on the smaller city projects. There simply is no need to have a third group in the mix.
+1
I never understood why JTA was in charge of building roads. That was a bonehead idea to give them road-building duties. I would like to see better road systems here, though. I brought this up before, why not build an expressway that goes from downtown to the beaches? It shouldn't be that hard to do.
Quote from: Anti redneck on March 30, 2012, 09:46:09 PM
I brought this up before, why not build an expressway that goes from downtown to the beaches? It shouldn't be that hard to do.
The Hart Bridge was built as the first leg of a downtown to beaches expressway, but I think that the development along Beach Blvd made that into a bad idea.
The J Turner Butler is an expressway to the beaches, but you have to go down I-95 a few miles to get to it.
Quote from: Dashing Dan on March 30, 2012, 10:09:43 PM
Quote from: Anti redneck on March 30, 2012, 09:46:09 PM
I brought this up before, why not build an expressway that goes from downtown to the beaches? It shouldn't be that hard to do.
The Hart Bridge was built as the first leg of a downtown to beaches expressway, but I think that the development along Beach Blvd made that into a bad idea.
The J Turner Butler is an expressway to the beaches, but you have to go down I-95 a few miles to get to it.
I was thinking more along the lines of visitors coming in from I-10 east. They already fixed that issue for those coming from I-95 north. It would just be nice to see something get done from the other way. I'm sure there's a way to work it out.
Historically, JTA started in the 1950s as the Jacksonville EXPRESSWAY Authority. It became "Transportation" in the early 1970s when they acquired the private bus operator. As noted above, the Hart Expressway was the first phase of an expressway to the beaches - the leg that ends at Parental Home Road would have continued southeast, then follow the Butler alignment from around UNF. But, certain interests stopped it.
JUATS file
JUATS 2015. Amendment July 1997. Draft MPO Jacksonville Urban Area Transportation Study Long Range Transportation Plan
Post-it notes in the file;
JTA expand to REGIONAL
Promoted by C.A.C./MPO
Stephen Jensen-Chair (president of road building co.) ph 268 7766. "cool reception"
MPO Calvin Burney
Cheers!- North Miami
Edited to completely spell Chair's name
Quote from: Charles Hunter on March 30, 2012, 10:38:18 PM
Historically, JTA started in the 1950s as the Jacksonville EXPRESSWAY Authority. It became "Transportation" in the early 1970s when they acquired the private bus operator. As noted above, the Hart Expressway was the first phase of an expressway to the beaches - the leg that ends at Parental Home Road would have continued southeast, then follow the Butler alignment from around UNF. But, certain interests stopped it.
Any way to get those interests going again?
Jax already has plenty of expressways. We don't need anymore. JTB serves as the "expressway" to the beach. It's limited access (for the most part), is directly linked to I-95, and takes you straight to the beach.
You think the Outer Beltway or SR 9B is a lot of cash, just try blasting an expressway to the beach from downtown now. That will certainly run you over a billion. If we do find a pot of gold at the end of the rainbow, we just might want to use it on maintaining what we already have. After all, at some point the Mathews Bridge will need some work and it alone might consume that billion.
The Hart Bridge Expressway, the skyway, the Kings Avenue Garage, and the Outer Beltway. I'm picking up a theme here.
Instead of "The Bold New City of the South" or "Where Florida Begins" we should call ourselves the home of half-baked transportation projects.
Just curiosity, but what kinds of qualifications does a person need to direct an organization like JTA? Are these guys mostly engineers or something like that? Are there specialized degrees that are applicable to the mass transit field and others that more applicable to road construction and city planning? It's something that I have no background in, so I was just wondering.
Quote from: thelakelander on March 31, 2012, 08:07:41 AM
You think the Outer Beltway or SR 9B is a lot of cash, just try blasting an expressway to the beach from downtown now. That will certainly run you over a billion. If we do find a pot of gold at the end of the rainbow, we just might want to use it on maintaining what we already have. After all, at some point the Mathews Bridge will need some work and it alone might consume that billion.
If you think about it, it would not be that much to connect Hart Bridge Expressway to JTB. While you're at it, connect it to 9A as well. At least finish the job. 9B and Outer Beltway, I haven't even heard about that in a while. Have they even done anything with that?
Furthermore, is the Outer Beltway and 9B really necessary? To me, those look like projects that can be put off for a while until the very end.
Quote from: Dashing Dan on March 31, 2012, 08:27:14 AM
The Hart Bridge Expressway, the skyway, the Kings Avenue Garage, and the Outer Beltway. I'm picking up a theme here.
Instead of "The Bold New City of the South" or "Where Florida Begins" we should call ourselves the home of half-baked transportation projects.
Sad, but agreed.
Quote from: Anti redneck on March 31, 2012, 04:14:52 PM
If you think about it, it would not be that much to connect Hart Bridge Expressway to JTB. While you're at it, connect it to 9A as well. At least finish the job.
It would cost a ton in ROW acquisition costs and you just can't take people's land for the hell of it anymore.
Quote9B and Outer Beltway, I haven't even heard about that in a while. Have they even done anything with that?
9B is under construction and a short segment of the Outer Beltway is supposed to start construction soon.
QuoteFurthermore, is the Outer Beltway and 9B really necessary? To me, those look like projects that can be put off for a while until the very end.
Imo, neither is but those who make their money in road construction would tell you otherwise.
^ That would be the only tricky part is how to build it and keep people living around the area happy. If you can master that, the rest should be simple. I'm not saying it would be totally simple, but I think there's always a way when enough minds come together. Besides, IMO it probably would've been cheaper to do all of that than to build 9B and the Outer Beltway, which I don't really see much use out of those roads (<-- thank you, Peyton).
Quote from: Fallen Buckeye on March 31, 2012, 09:13:04 AM
Just curiosity, but what kinds of qualifications does a person need to direct an organization like JTA? Are these guys mostly engineers or something like that? Are there specialized degrees that are applicable to the mass transit field and others that more applicable to road construction and city planning? It's something that I have no background in, so I was just wondering.
ideally, you'd want someone who had experience with management, planning and engineering, transit operrations, budgeting, and public relations....of course you'll never find someone who is experienced in all those.
Quote from: thelakelander on March 31, 2012, 05:43:20 PM
Quote from: Anti redneck on March 31, 2012, 04:14:52 PM
If you think about it, it would not be that much to connect Hart Bridge Expressway to JTB. While you're at it, connect it to 9A as well. At least finish the job.
It would cost a ton in ROW acquisition costs and you just can't take people's land for the hell of it anymore.
Quote9B and Outer Beltway, I haven't even heard about that in a while. Have they even done anything with that?
9B is under construction and a short segment of the Outer Beltway is supposed to start construction soon.
QuoteFurthermore, is the Outer Beltway and 9B really necessary? To me, those look like projects that can be put off for a while until the very end.
Imo, neither is but those who make their money in road construction would tell you otherwise.
I thought the Outer Beltway was dead.
QuoteLawmakers Wednesday released a county-by-county breakdown of how next year's $70 billion state budget will by divvied up.
In Northeast Florida, $283 million will flow to Duval and Clay Counties the First Coast Outer beltway. The project will allow drivers to drive between Blanding Boulevard and Interstate 10.
http://jacksonville.com/opinion/blog/457554/matt-dixon/2012-03-28/lawmakers-release-county-county-budget-numbers-outer
Thanks Lake. What a waste of money.
Quote from: tufsu1 on March 31, 2012, 08:00:23 PM
Quote from: Fallen Buckeye on March 31, 2012, 09:13:04 AM
Just curiosity, but what kinds of qualifications does a person need to direct an organization like JTA? Are these guys mostly engineers or something like that? Are there specialized degrees that are applicable to the mass transit field and others that more applicable to road construction and city planning? It's something that I have no background in, so I was just wondering.
ideally, you'd want someone who had experience with management, planning and engineering, transit operrations, budgeting, and public relations....of course you'll never find someone who is experienced in all those.
I know someone with those exact qualifications who is thinking about applying for the position, but won't if he is required to move to Duval County.
Quote from: Dog Walker on April 01, 2012, 11:06:38 AM
Quote from: tufsu1 on March 31, 2012, 08:00:23 PM
Quote from: Fallen Buckeye on March 31, 2012, 09:13:04 AM
Just curiosity, but what kinds of qualifications does a person need to direct an organization like JTA? Are these guys mostly engineers or something like that? Are there specialized degrees that are applicable to the mass transit field and others that more applicable to road construction and city planning? It's something that I have no background in, so I was just wondering.
ideally, you'd want someone who had experience with management, planning and engineering, transit operrations, budgeting, and public relations....of course you'll never find someone who is experienced in all those.
I know someone with those exact qualifications who is thinking about applying for the position, but won't if he is required to move to Duval County.
So this person wouldn't move to Duval County for a 300k per year job?
Nope. It wouldn't be a huge raise for him, but he would be willing to commute for it.
^^^Please by all means keep this person anonymous, but are there any underlying reasons why he/she would not live in Duval County? I suspect a reason may have to do with a much more serious underlying issue afflicting Jacksonville than the lack of public transit. It couldn't possibly be schools - Jax housing is cheap and private schools are cheaper than in larger cities and $300K goes a LONG way in Jax. Could it be crime? I wouldn't think so - the city is not "that" dangerous and is much better than it has been and much better than in the 90s, plus crime is isolated in areas, not city-wide. Could it be traffic? Obviously not if the person would actually rather commute in from the burbs.
Just breaking down possible 1st reasons for not moving somewhere. If this person were in his/her 30s, single or married without kids, I wouldn't blame the person for wanting to live in PVB if the salary were $300K. You have the club, other young people, a place where in the future you can raise kids, the beach, good restaurants, biking, beautiful scenery, etc.
Quote from: Dog Walker on April 01, 2012, 02:51:46 PM
Nope. It wouldn't be a huge raise for him, but he would be willing to commute for it.
So how many major public transit agencies has this person been in charge of before?
Quote from: Dog Walker on April 01, 2012, 11:06:38 AM
Quote from: tufsu1 on March 31, 2012, 08:00:23 PM
Quote from: Fallen Buckeye on March 31, 2012, 09:13:04 AM
Just curiosity, but what kinds of qualifications does a person need to direct an organization like JTA? Are these guys mostly engineers or something like that? Are there specialized degrees that are applicable to the mass transit field and others that more applicable to road construction and city planning? It's something that I have no background in, so I was just wondering.
ideally, you'd want someone who had experience with management, planning and engineering, transit operrations, budgeting, and public relations....of course you'll never find someone who is experienced in all those.
I know someone with those exact qualifications who is thinking about applying for the position, but won't if he is required to move to Duval County.
Does this person already own a residence on the Southbank?
In the world of politics, if you have a house somewhere, you must live there.
What's the update on this?
patience...this will not happen overnight....we'll know a lot more when JTA advertises the Exec. Dir. position
Hopefully they'll choose the right guy.
I dont believe the director is required to live in Duval County. JTA is separate from COJ.
The JTA has much bigger problems than who the director is, was, or might be.
Which is why it should be completely dismantled and reinvented as some other organization. There's way too much dead wood in that organization. They need new blood. Out with the old, in with the new.
So what are the roles of the TPO and RTA in relation to the JTA?
Why not one singular North Florida Regional Transportation Association/Organization?
The TPO is a planning and prioritization agency...as mandated by Federal law
JTA also does some planning but mainly implements
The RTA is being studied and has not been formed yet...but if it is, there will be collaboration with both the TPO and JTA