At the risk of being called a xenophobe, racists, bigot, etc. I present the following short video. Some would argue that this is happening here in the US in places like Detroit. I really do not know if that is true. However, i would like to get a reaction to this from some of the more vocal members on this forum in terms of immigration policy. Is this acceptable to you? Would you welcome this behavior in Springfield, Avondale, etc. and trumpet their rights to act this way?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0hKEd6rzbeg&feature=share
Thanks
I live in the UK. There are no Sharia courts in the UK that are recognised by the government. There is no Sharia law in the UK.
I live in an area (and borough) with a very large muslim population. Guess what? They're just like you and me. They don't want to overthrow the government or impose anything on anyone. At least not the muslims I work with or my landlord, or the guys who run all the shops I frequent, or my friends, etc.
I wouldn't say that there aren't extremists. There clearly are. But I don't take their opinions to represent all muslims, just as I don't accept the opinions of the EDL and BNP as being representative of all white English or Britsh people.
It's worth noting that the most regular demonstrations I see by muslims in my neighbourhood are by the PKK, protesting the Turkish imprisonment of their leader. They are not remotely islamist.
The good thing to keep in mind is that the UK and the USA are civil societies that allow people to voice their opinions. I don't mind a bit of protesting, because it reinforces our rights to freedom of speech and freedom of assembly.
That is a racist video. I'm not going to call you a xenophobe, racist of bigot, as I don't know you. But your actions (posting this link) do indicate a certain level of ignorance.
Adam,
Thanks for your response. I posted a video and asked for honest opinions. You gave yours. Thanks again. You claim the video is racist. How so? It is very easy to label someone or something as racist. I do not recall any reference to race mentioned from either side in this video. Did i miss it? Was the video taken out of context? Or was it fabricated? Is this an isolated incident of this type of demonstration? Please elaborate. You claim that posting this video shows a "certain amount of ignorance". How so? I sense an extra ordinary sensitivity from you on this issue and perhaps a little, shall we say intolerance for those who are alarmed by the video content.
@RMHoward
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2012/mar/20/fbi-informant (http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2012/mar/20/fbi-informant)
Quote from: JFman00 on March 29, 2012, 10:03:19 AM
@RMHoward
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2012/mar/20/fbi-informant (http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2012/mar/20/fbi-informant)
To play devil's advocate: Being deep undercover is inherently risky, because of the 'untouchable' factor mentioned in the article. Another issue may also be that while 'pretending' to convert, Monteilh, was truly converted to Islam and did indeed become the same 'radical Islamist' that he was originally seeking out.
His turning against the FBI could be a form of the new Jihad - the one without bomb vests - peaceful tactics used to discredit an entire agency as a stepping stone used in the master plan to take down the entire country.
Quote from: Non-RedNeck Westsider on March 29, 2012, 10:25:09 AM
Quote from: JFman00 on March 29, 2012, 10:03:19 AM
@RMHoward
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2012/mar/20/fbi-informant (http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2012/mar/20/fbi-informant)
To play devil's advocate: Being deep undercover is inherently risky, because of the 'untouchable' factor mentioned in the article. Another issue may also be that while 'pretending' to convert, Monteilh, was truly converted to Islam and did indeed become the same 'radical Islamist' that he was originally seeking out.
His turning against the FBI could be a form of the new Jihad - the one without bomb vests - peaceful tactics used to discredit an entire agency as a stepping stone used in the master plan to take down the entire country.
The Muslim community took out a restraining order against him and reported him to the FBI. Seems to me they're doing a better job than the FBI is. I'm not going to respond to the conspiracy theory.
Quote from: JFman00 on March 29, 2012, 10:28:13 AM
Quote from: Non-RedNeck Westsider on March 29, 2012, 10:25:09 AM
Quote from: JFman00 on March 29, 2012, 10:03:19 AM
@RMHoward
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2012/mar/20/fbi-informant (http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2012/mar/20/fbi-informant)
To play devil's advocate: Being deep undercover is inherently risky, because of the 'untouchable' factor mentioned in the article. Another issue may also be that while 'pretending' to convert, Monteilh, was truly converted to Islam and did indeed become the same 'radical Islamist' that he was originally seeking out.
His turning against the FBI could be a form of the new Jihad - the one without bomb vests - peaceful tactics used to discredit an entire agency as a stepping stone used in the master plan to take down the entire country.
The Muslim community took out a restraining order against him and reported him to the FBI. Seems to me they're doing a better job than the FBI is. I'm not going to respond to the conspiracy theory.
That's actually part of it. If you 'out' the informant to agency that he works for, not only to you give yourself credibility, buy you also extract him from his current 'mission' so he can move on to the next thing..... :o
FWIW, my opinion on the first video is that I don't have one. You can't form an opinion based off of one handicam video thrown onto Youtube. I'm sure there are dozens more to substantiate it, just as there are probably dozens of others that would discredit it. These days, the only opinion I feel safe forming is something that I've seen or witnessed first hand.
Quote from: Non-RedNeck Westsider on March 29, 2012, 10:25:09 AM
Quote from: JFman00 on March 29, 2012, 10:03:19 AM
@RMHoward
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2012/mar/20/fbi-informant (http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2012/mar/20/fbi-informant)
To play devil's advocate: Being deep undercover is inherently risky, because of the 'untouchable' factor mentioned in the article. Another issue may also be that while 'pretending' to convert, Monteilh, was truly converted to Islam and did indeed become the same 'radical Islamist' that he was originally seeking out.
His turning against the FBI could be a form of the new Jihad - the one without bomb vests - peaceful tactics used to discredit an entire agency as a stepping stone used in the master plan to take down the entire country.
I dont think Maj. Hasaan of Fort Hood fame got the memo on the new "peaceful tactics" game plan. Or the fellow in France last weekend, or..........
Quote from: RMHoward on March 29, 2012, 10:41:38 AM
I dont think Maj. Hasaan of Fort Hood fame got the memo on the new "peaceful tactics" game plan. Or the fellow in France last weekend, or..........
They're all tactics, both peaceful and destructive. If you truly believe that we are being invaded by Islamic Radicals, then you need to read the playbook. {Hint: it's not the Koran}
Quote20. The following are the principles to be observed by an invading force: The further you penetrate into a country, the greater will be the solidarity of your troops, and thus the defenders will not prevail against you.
21. Make forays in fertile country in order to supply your army with food.
22. Carefully study the well-being of your men, and do not overtax them. Concentrate your energy and hoard your strength. Keep your army continually on the move, and devise unfathomable plans.
23. Throw your soldiers into positions whence there is no escape, and they will prefer death to flight. If they will face death, there is nothing they may not achieve. Officers and men alike will put forth their uttermost strength.
24. Soldiers when in desperate straits lose the sense of fear. If there is no place of refuge, they will stand firm. If they are in hostile country, they will show a stubborn front. If there is no help for it, they will fight hard.
25. Thus, without waiting to be marshaled, the soldiers will be constantly on the qui vive; without waiting to be asked, they will do your will; without restrictions, they will be faithful; without giving orders, they can be trusted.
RMHoward give me your opinion of Westboro Baptist Church protesting soldiers funerals, and tell me how that differs from the video above.
In my opinion, while you claim that the UK is being overrun by extremist Muslims, I could contend that the US is being overrun by extremist Christians.
Both groups are very vocal minorities, much like the posters on Jacksonville.com and some of the very "vocal" right-wing supporters on this very site. They don't represent the norm or the mainstream of the country. Sure, it makes for some great video to stress "your side" of the propaganda war.
Quote from: RiversideLoki on March 29, 2012, 10:58:35 AM
RMHoward give me your opinion of Westboro Baptist Church protesting soldiers funerals, and tell me how that differs from the video above.
In my opinion, while you claim that the UK is being overrun by extremist Muslims, I could contend that the US is being overrun by extremist Christians.
Both groups are very vocal minorities, much like the posters on Jacksonville.com and some of the very "vocal" right-wing supporters on this very site. They don't represent the norm or the mainstream of the country. Sure, it makes for some great video to stress "your side" of the propaganda war.
Where did i claim the "UK is being overrun by extremist Muslims"? Exactly where is that Riversideloki? Point it out to me. Please dont put words in my mouth. I posted a video and solicited opinions. I asked if folks would be comfortable with these demonstrations in neighborhoods like Riverside and Avondale (because i know lots of folks from those areas frequent this forum). I take it from your post that you would be very supportive and welcoming to them marching the streets of wherever you live. Thanks for the input. I have a few data points now to add to the list. As far as the Westboro Baptist Church, I believe their actions are despicable and i have witnessed them up close and personal. However, I understand they have the right to do what they do. Westboro Baptist Church is not a world-wide phenomena.
To be quite frank, the only thing I would welcome is abolishing religion. And that's my last statement in this thread. I won't feed the troll anymore.
Quote from: RiversideLoki on March 29, 2012, 11:19:17 AM
To be quite frank, the only thing I would welcome is abolishing religion. And that's my last statement in this thread. I won't feed the troll anymore.
Typical. Fabricate statements and falsely attach them to someone as having said them. Get called on it. Then in a huff, like a spoiled child, call names as you exit the premises.
We go through this every single time... you post a video/article of something that expresses a certain viewpoint which you hold while you try to cover your ass by trying to "catch" anyone who calls you out on it with technicalities.
It's like saying "Well I'm no pedophile, but look at these pictures of naked children! Opinion?"
You're a farce.
Quote from: RiversideLoki on March 29, 2012, 11:46:36 AM
We go through this every single time... you post a video/article of something that expresses a certain viewpoint which you hold while you try to cover your ass by trying to "catch" anyone who calls you out on it with technicalities.
It's like saying "Well I'm no pedophile, but look at these pictures of naked children! Opinion?"
You're a farce.
So, that wasnt your last post, huh? I may be wrong, but i dont remember previously posting any videos like this requesting input before. Did you make that up too? Is anyone who disagrees with you a troll, or a farce? I suspect so. Unlike you, i really am done on this post. It has degraded into namecalling and lying as it usually does with folks like yourself.
(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/1/19/Trolls.jpg)
Quote from: RiversideLoki on March 29, 2012, 10:58:35 AM
RMHoward give me your opinion of Westboro Baptist Church protesting soldiers funerals, and tell me how that differs from the video above.
In my opinion, while you claim that the UK is being overrun by extremist Muslims, I could contend that the US is being overrun by extremist Christians.
Both groups are very vocal minorities, much like the posters on Jacksonville.com and some of the very "vocal" right-wing supporters on this very site. They don't represent the norm or the mainstream of the country. Sure, it makes for some great video to stress "your side" of the propaganda war.
As a Christian, active with my church groups and such, I can tell you that Westboro is about as welcome among Baptists as a Klansman at an NAACP meeting. They are seen as a rogue, unthinking congregation and an embarrassment to Christianity.
Quote from: RMHoward on March 29, 2012, 09:38:53 AM
Adam,
Thanks for your response. I posted a video and asked for honest opinions. You gave yours. Thanks again. You claim the video is racist. How so? It is very easy to label someone or something as racist. I do not recall any reference to race mentioned from either side in this video. Did i miss it? Was the video taken out of context? Or was it fabricated? Is this an isolated incident of this type of demonstration? Please elaborate. You claim that posting this video shows a "certain amount of ignorance". How so? I sense an extra ordinary sensitivity from you on this issue and perhaps a little, shall we say intolerance for those who are alarmed by the video content.
The video is very racist. It's called "TIP OF THE ICEBERG: THE EFFECTS OF IMMIGRATION FROM THE 3RD WORLD".
The woman in the video even talks about the actions of an extreme few or something like that, but the video tries to imply that the UK is being overrun by muslim extremists. I don't know much about the case those guys were protesting, but it's their right.
It's also worth noting that a lot of christians believe non-christians are going to go to hell because they aren't christian. I don't see a huge difference there.
Finally, I'd like to point out the irony (and idiocy) of having someone with the surname "Dooley" complaining about immigrants to England and the UK.
I would bet money the video was produced by the EDL.
I think this video will answer all of your questions about radical islam: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
Quote from: drhandbook on March 29, 2012, 01:58:31 PM
I think this video will answer all of your questions about radical islam: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
+1
Quote from: drhandbook on March 29, 2012, 01:58:31 PM
I think this video will answer all of your questions about radical islam: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
Quit messing around.. this is a serious subject..... (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1wnE4vF9CQ4)