Metro Jacksonville

Looks like FECI is going to be creating a new passenger service that will connect Orlando to Miami, then to Jacksonville and Tampa. Interesting development.

http://www.businesswire.com/news/home/20120322005917/en/Florida-East-Coast-Industries-Announces-Plans-Private

Orlando - Miami rail service is a great idea for tourists. It would be even better if it was high speed rail (not saying it isn't, but I didn't see anything in the article).

lots of details still need to be worked out. I highly doubt it will be true HSR since it will operate in the FEC ROW.

Code name, All Aboard Florida. How original?

Wonder of this conflicts with the long discussed FEC/Amtrak project? Or does this kick start that project?

I would say that FECI just smacked Amtrak in the mouth and said, we are tired of waiting on the bureaucracy, we are moving forward. Amtrak needs FECI more than FECI needs Amtrak.

^If FEC wants to do this, I'd say go for it!  Their system is responsible for Florida's entire East Coast, so the land uses and urban clusters are already in place to make it work.  On the surface, this sounds like a potential winner to me and I love the time frame.

(http://photos.metrojacksonville.com/Transit/FEC-Private-Passenger-Rail/i-vfP2d4G/0/M/All-Aboard-Florida-Infographic-L.jpg)

Better get ready to dial 1-800-HELLO JACKSONVILLE TERMINAL! Get that convention business out of the Terminal BEFORE we end up with another 'AMSHACK' FECSHACK!

Watch the back door on this one as the FEC connects to the NASA railroad and some of the aero-space manufacturing is in Orlando. Also Port Canaveral has been clamoring for a rail link for two decades. I bet this is WAY MORE complex then anything in those news releases say.

^Ock, I was thinking the same thing.  This is being billed as passenger rail but it also sets up for FEC to expand freight rail operations to Orlando and Tampa. Brilliant move on their part.

And I think CSX is going to be VERY reluctant to let FEC/NS get any kind of a foothold on the freight rail business in Orlando.

Of course it is. Ock are they utilizing some abandoned rail corridor from Cocoa to Orlando? not sure.

^My guess is they'll want the median of the Bee Line.  It's a straight shot and the shortest distance.

I think they'll be working out a deal with the state to use the Beachline (conveniently it ends in Cocoa) and I-4 ROW...you know, just like HSR was going to do!

I wonder how long its going to take the FTU and other local media to pick this story up?  It's been out in South and Central Florida media outlets for a few hours now.

Ok so they're just doing stops in ORL, WPB, FTL, and MIA?  How about all of the in-betweens like (Historic) Cocoa Village, (Historic Downtown) Melbourne, Vero, PSL, and the like?

I can't imagine they'd just bypass them/ignore them altogether?

They never said where the stops would be located.  That information hasn't been released at this point.  I can't imagine they wouldn't have a stop in the vicinity of Port Canaveral.

Exactly.  That would tap into the tourism industry right there, and would feed potentially from OIA and points south.

Tie together probably two major airports (MCO and MIA), multiple mostly-historic *and walkable* districts (Cocoa, Rockledge, Eau Gallie/Melbourne), a port or two (Canaveral and Miami, depending on the terminus), and a regional airport (MLB), and you've got yourself something.

I wonder how or if it would or could eventually tie in to TriRail?

Rail along the Bee Line/Beach Line Turnpike has been a dream even prior to HSR. The 'old route' was going to be highway 50 and the State nearly funded it until environmentalist slammed the door with concerns over the St. Johns headwaters.

As for abandoned right-of-way, the FEC has been in the neighborhood before, but keep in mind Orlando was a tiny citrus town and Kissimmee was the heart of the Florida cattle business. Thing's have changed a bit.

(http://i196.photobucket.com/albums/aa111/Ocklawaha/CRITICAL%20Maps/RAILROADS-CENTRAL-FL-MAP-1926.jpg)
Central Florida - 1926

The old FEC route came out of New Smyrna Beach, one line went to
New Smyrna-Satsuma-Lake Helen-Orange City.
another
New Smyrna (actually Oak Hill) to Maytown-Osceola-Chuluota-Holopaw-Nittaw-Yehaw-Okeechobee
another
Titusville-Maytown-Enterprise-Benson Junction-(Sanford via Joint track)

Doesn't look like any of this will play into the scheme just yet, however it is remotely possible that the former New Smyrna-Maytown-Osceola segment might play a part, there is also an idea for a freight bypass around Orlando. The FEC might be playing to all of these 'incentives' New Smyrna-Osceola puts them with a couple of miles of Oviedo-UCF. CSX has/had a line from Sanford to Oviedo which is somewhat cut back today, however preserved as a rail trail. One of the expressed purposes of the rail trail program is to preserve right-of-way for future transportation use.

This is very cool but not totally unexpected.

OCKLAWAHA

I doubt they are looking at anything seriously other than laying track on Beach Line ROW.  They are basically tying the dead HSR corridor into their existing network.  Anything else, and you're expense of acquiring ROW and working it into Central Florida destinations will cost a lot more than the $1 billion estimated for their entire project.

I guess they looked at those HSR numbers and realized that a modified corridor service with conventional technology (the thing we said Amtrak should have done) makes sense financially.

Looks like it would be really hard to run the train along the ROW of the Beeline between the FEC tracks and the St Johns.  You've got lots of building on either side of the road and the road passes over 3 others in that stretch, icluding I-95.  I'd assume that those intersections would have to be reworked to get I-95 over the train. 

Seems like sneaking out of Brevard between Port St John and Cocoa might be easier for that stretch, or to the north pf Port St John.  According to the property appraiser Flagler Development (FEC) owns the two long skinny parcels in the middle of this map: http://g.co/maps/3xj6j

It's a straight shot if you use the Bee Line's median.  That's the same ROW that was considered for the second leg of HSR from Orlando to Miami.

Actually, the map on close inspection shows the line coming off the FEC slightly north of Cocoa. A route like that might use an alignment that compliments the NASA branch.

Either way I suspect The Beachline Turnpike is where the tracks would end up. Just pointing out they did own a bunch of land and right of ways in that territory at one time. Keep in mind Lee Cypress had a mill at both Osceola and Holopaw, both served by the FEC track until the end of WWII. Lee had their own railroads that stretched far off into the woods in virtually every direction from each of these points, so if your shopping for a railroad right-of-way, this area is a buffet.

I like some of the facts at the end of the Miami Herald story.

QuoteThe company said All Aboard Florida passenger rail service will include business- and coach-class service with advance purchase reserved seating, gourmet meals and wireless Internet. Stations in Miami, Fort Lauderdale, West Palm Beach and Orlando will have transfers to Metrorail, Metromover or SunRail, allowing passengers to reach their final destination.

The company said it would be working in depth with local, state and federal officials, as well as the communities along the route. It the coming months, it will perform ridership, engineering and environmental studies.

FECI, through its subsidiaries and affiliates, is a major owner and developer of real estate and transportation-related businesses within Florida.

Read more here: http://www.miamiherald.com/2012/03/22/2708219/company-plans-train-between-miami.html#storylink=cpy

Just checked some maps, looks like FEC still owns 'an escape route' which peels away from the mainline in Titusville, just north of the station which (miracle) is still standing, and heads northeast into Volusia toward Maytown. So though the likely thing here is some sort of up the sleeve deal by Rick Scott who might bring to the table some sort of sweeping change ability to get this planned, engineered, approved and built in that time-frame. Any involvement with the State, NASA, and Port Canaveral would likely use the previously mentioned possible routes on the Beach Line and/or SR 50.

the local FDOT District in Orlando will be issuing a study soon for transit connecting SunRail to the airport....would tie in real neatly if this private service followed the Beachline.

Love the part about a connection with Sunrail, which means it goes BEYOND OIA to a connected terminus... Here all along I thought this was about OIA. LOL!

Maytown is well out of the way of Disney, the airport, and I-Drive.

Quote from: Ocklawaha on March 23, 2012, 01:29:17 PM
Love the part about a connection with Sunrail, which means it goes BEYOND OIA to a connected terminus... Here all along I thought this was about OIA. LOL!

Yes this seems like there is some private company logic behind it.

Quote from: thelakelander on March 23, 2012, 01:51:28 PM
Maytown is well out of the way of Disney, the airport, and I-Drive.

Correct but a turn west at I-95 and Aurantia Road isn't too bad.

Quote from: JeffreyS on March 23, 2012, 01:55:12 PM

Quote from: Ocklawaha on March 23, 2012, 01:29:17 PM
Love the part about a connection with Sunrail, which means it goes BEYOND OIA to a connected terminus... Here all along I thought this was about OIA. LOL!

Yes this seems like there is some private company logic behind it.

OIA! Which is why I said all along that HSR would fail even if it was built. Short on numbers they would have collapsed and done more damage to HSR then any wreck in China could.

Logic is all over the FECI and SE Florida corridor studies, hardly a page can be turned without the connection of rail and downtown comes into play, development, CITY CENTERS, rail gets you into town, not out in a glorified cow pasture. Everyone on the studies has been saying it over, and over, but when it comes to Orlando... OIA! OIA!

I suspect THIS is why it will hook into Sunrail, AND with state owned trackage, who's to say some stings might not be pulled to aim those trains right into central Orlando. Assuming of course that these folks decide this is REALLY a good investment.

Spokesman for FECI on Progressive Railroading.

QuoteThe studies under way also will help FECI determine train speeds. The company plans to operate trains at top speeds of 100 mph to 110 mph, says Barney.

http://www.progressiverailroading.com/high_speed_rail/news/Florida-East-Coast-Industries-to-develop-private-passengerrail-service--30360# (http://www.progressiverailroading.com/high_speed_rail/news/Florida-East-Coast-Industries-to-develop-private-passengerrail-service--30360#)

I was able to confirm that this service will have no adverse impact on the proposed Jax to Miami Amtrak service. Two different markets are targeted and the FECI will be a much more robust service with trains pretty much operating all day.

Note to self, FECI is NOT excluding State funded right-of-way and construction! If it opens or breaks ground in 2014, it will be just in time to reelect Rick Scott. Anyone else smell a skunk?

QuoteA good leader... if possible, always present his demands to the vanquished in installments."
Adolf Hitler

Quote from: JeffreyS on March 23, 2012, 01:55:12 PM

Quote from: Ocklawaha on March 23, 2012, 01:29:17 PM
Love the part about a connection with Sunrail, which means it goes BEYOND OIA to a connected terminus... Here all along I thought this was about OIA. LOL!

Yes this seems like there is some private company logic behind it.

OIA is still a major player. Sunrail will just be extended to the airport's proposed intermodal center....just like HSR. I doubt this thing gets into DT Orlando.

I believe CSX totally covered their selves as to existing freight customers, but if that area around the power plant blooms with FEC style distribution centers and warehousing, they could be off and running freight in no time at all.

Here's a OCK-TRANSLATION of the release for those that don't understand rail.

Quote"All Aboard Florida offers a different approach," Barney said. "It will be privately owned, privately operated and privately maintained. There will be no risk to taxpayers."
http://www.ajc.com/travel/company-plans-train-between-1396239.html

"It will be privately owned" Yes, the company that actually runs the trains, but not the trains, track, right-of-way between Cocoa and Orlando, South of Cocoa these trains will operate over a private railroad under contract. .
"privately operated" Yes, the company that operates the trains will be private. In short a contract operator.
"privately maintained" Yes again, the FEC will take care of their track South of Cocoa, and might take care of the states track too... depending on the paycheck being large enough.

What I see this boils down to is what Lakelander and I said all along, this is a high density, frequent stop, corridor with some opportunities for non-stop or limited stop services (however such services defeats a large part of what rail is about). It's not the dumb HSR plan, rather the EXACT same track route, with HrSR conventional trains.

In the end this short corridor along with a Jax-Miami, Miami-Orlando-Tampa, Jax-Orlando-Tampa service will look very much like "Amtrak California". It's something I corresponded with the new governor about in detail shortly after his election, encouraging him to peruse this course and kill the bullet train. We are getting "Amtrak Florida" but with a decidedly Republican slant... A private operator, a mere paper management company to staff and run the trains.

You can bet this privately operated service will then be turned on Amtrak and the nation as a hammer to kill Amtrak by the Grand Old Party. It's all smoke and mirrors boys and girls because half of the commuter rail in the America's is already done this way. So though I fully agree with the concept being tested and used, I'll be watching the back door to see if these guys are going to try and twist this into some 'unique anti-Amtrak success story'. 

Speaking of corridor service, they hired Eugene Skoropowski out of retirement who ran the Capital Corridor in California to run the operation.

QuoteRecently FECI's Florida East Coast Railway appointed Eugene Skoropowski as Senior Vice President-Passenger Service Development, based in Orlando. Skoropowski's resume includes management positions at the Southeastern Pennsylvania Transportation Authority and the Massachusetts Bay Transportation Authority, and he also worked with Fluor Corp. on the HSL Zuid Project for Thalys high speed trains between Brussels and Amsterdam. He was the popular and effective head of the Capitol Corridor Joint Powers Authority in California, where he skillfully balanced the needs of Amtrak's state-supported passenger services and those of the freight railroads they operated over. Now, Skoropowski's appointment is not such a mystery.

full article: http://railfan.com/railnews/

Skoropowski calls this the Capital Corridor of the East with a bigger market.  Trains would also operate on one hour headways.  They envision running a Miami to Cocoa train by 2014, even if the new segment to Orlando isn't complete.  This article also implies that the $1 billion cost may not be a hurdle for FECI. FECI's parent company, Fortress Investment Group has $43.7 billion in assets and raised $4.2 billion in capital last year.  It also owns 5,000 acres of land in Florida, nine of which are in downtown Miami that can be developed as TOD.

http://www.trainorders.com/discussion/read.php?4,2721261,2722298

Quote from: thelakelander on March 23, 2012, 03:32:23 PM

Quote from: JeffreyS on March 23, 2012, 01:55:12 PM

Quote from: Ocklawaha on March 23, 2012, 01:29:17 PM
Love the part about a connection with Sunrail, which means it goes BEYOND OIA to a connected terminus... Here all along I thought this was about OIA. LOL!

Yes this seems like there is some private company logic behind it.

OIA is still a major player. Sunrail will just be extended to the airport's proposed intermodal center....just like HSR. I doubt this thing gets into DT Orlando.

correct...connections to downtown will be via SunRail or possibly a future light rail line.

sorry Ock but this is exactly the route HSR would have taken....and yes, FDOT was already looking for ways to link SunRail to HSR for several years, so the upcoming study is nothing new