Urban Projects Struggle To Stay Alive
(http://www.metrojacksonville.com/photos/thumbs/lrg-3163-dsc_0015.JPG)
Downtown will never be the same again. Well maybe it will be. Here's a brief list of urban projects that died or were indefinately delayed in 2007.
Full Article
http://www.metrojacksonville.com/content/view/689
that sucks.
depressing :'(
It really does suck. And the worst part is these projects more than likely aren't going to pick back up until the real-estate market does which won't be for at least 2 more years :( They never even broke ground on the Oak Street project....just a vacant lot with a sign and a fence.
A long list of housing projects. But lets face the urban core does not need more housing anyway. The place is empty. There is a huge excess of housing even without all these projects. All the people live on the southside.
If the downtown ever comes back, the city (or whoever is investing in the city with these housing projects) needs to understand that investments need to be made in the following ways:
1) safety (visible police presence in the evenings....you don't have to remove the homeless....I see homeless in NYC all the time but it never prevents me from going there...I feel safe because there are lots of people around...and police here and there)
2) something open (maybe open a shop or two past 3pm.....not just the Landing....the Landing has such a firm control on the downtown social scene, but it really is isolated from the rest of the downtown....so it does not inspire any movement from the Landing to downtown or vice versa....it is just "Lets go to the Landing" as if it is more than Twisted Martinis, Hooters, and a few closed at 8 (or whatever early time they close) fast food places)
3) something going on (build a park or amphitheater in the downtown, bring people there for concerts surround it with businesses, have events there everyday whether big name concerts or just local artists, guys that juggle flaming torches, whatever......have something going on). I guess they could use Hemming Plaza now. Expand the Art Walk to Wed and Fri's.....1st and last.
4) End the depression (I frequently try to go to the core with friends for happy hour, food, latenight, etc. and most of the time the places we go to are almost empty....this is depressing...also I have talked to people who live downtown and their only words are "its kind of boring"....kind of?....of course no one is there after 5pm....the place is deserted...because there is nothing to do)
Don't give me this bullshit that I should be dissappointed that these "housing projects failed." Good I am glad. These outside investors did some paperwork and said lets invest in condos in Jacksonville. They probably do not live here because if they did they would realize that more housing is the last thing downtown needs. The place is empty already. Empty.
Stop investing in condos. Invest in restaurants, entertainment, parks, anti-depression, ethnic celebrations, ethnic parades, nightlife, techno coffee shops, libraries.
Empty.
The silver lining is that I'd rather have a long laundry-list or proposed but delayed/cancelled projects than a short one. Rome was not built in a day and neither will be a resurgent downtown. I
t's a matter of time (and admittedly it could be as much as a few years) for the real estate market to settle before many of these developers dust of their plans, make some tweaks, and begin to build again. Things are headed in the right direction. The core fundamentals that caused these developers to propose these projects aren't going to go away - the real estate market did however, but it will back.
Quote from: NJ to JAX WHAT DID I DO? on January 10, 2008, 08:34:20 AM
A long list of housing projects. But lets face the urban core does not need more housing anyway. The place is empty. There is a huge excess of housing even without all these projects. All the people live on the southside.
If the downtown ever comes back, the city (or whoever is investing in the city with these housing projects) needs to understand that investments need to be made in the following ways:
1) safety (visible police presence in the evenings....you don't have to remove the homeless....I see homeless in NYC all the time but it never prevents me from going there...I feel safe because there are lots of people around...and police here and there)
2) something open (maybe open a shop or two past 3pm.....not just the Landing....the Landing has such a firm control on the downtown social scene, but it really is isolated from the rest of the downtown....so it does not inspire any movement from the Landing to downtown or vice versa....it is just "Lets go to the Landing" as if it is more than Twisted Martinis, Hooters, and a few closed at 8 (or whatever early time they close) fast food places)
3) something going on (build a park or amphitheater in the downtown, bring people there for concerts surround it with businesses, have events there everyday whether big name concerts or just local artists, guys that juggle flaming torches, whatever......have something going on). I guess they could use Hemming Plaza now. Expand the Art Walk to Wed and Fri's.....1st and last.
4) End the depression (I frequently try to go to the core with friends for happy hour, food, latenight, etc. and most of the time the places we go to are almost empty....this is depressing...also I have talked to people who live downtown and their only words are "its kind of boring"....kind of?....of course no one is there after 5pm....the place is deserted...because there is nothing to do)
Don't give me this bullshit that I should be dissappointed that these "housing projects failed." Good I am glad. These outside investors did some paperwork and said lets invest in condos in Jacksonville. They probably do not live here because if they did they would realize that more housing is the last thing downtown needs. The place is empty already. Empty.
Stop investing in condos. Invest in restaurants, entertainment, parks, anti-depression, ethnic celebrations, ethnic parades, nightlife, techno coffee shops, libraries.
Empty.
I agree with nearly everything you said, but no rooftops, no retail. Simple as that. The artists/bohemenians/pioneers have to move in first before the coffee shops, restaurants, entertainment will have a customer base. The problem is the prices have already exceeded what the artists/bohemenians/pioneers can afford. Catch-22 stalemate.
Quote from: second_pancake on January 10, 2008, 08:31:02 AM
It really does suck. And the worst part is these projects more than likely aren't going to pick back up until the real-estate market does which won't be for at least 2 more years :( They never even broke ground on the Oak Street project....just a vacant lot with a sign and a fence.
The Oak Street project isn't delayed.....its dead.
Fuddruckers? I had forgotten all about that. Do they stil have the "Coming Soon" sign on the front of that space?
Quote from: vicupstate on January 10, 2008, 09:03:45 AM
Quote from: NJ to JAX WHAT DID I DO? on January 10, 2008, 08:34:20 AM
A long list of housing projects. But lets face the urban core does not need more housing anyway. The place is empty. There is a huge excess of housing even without all these projects. All the people live on the southside.
If the downtown ever comes back, the city (or whoever is investing in the city with these housing projects) needs to understand that investments need to be made in the following ways:
1) safety (visible police presence in the evenings....you don't have to remove the homeless....I see homeless in NYC all the time but it never prevents me from going there...I feel safe because there are lots of people around...and police here and there)
2) something open (maybe open a shop or two past 3pm.....not just the Landing....the Landing has such a firm control on the downtown social scene, but it really is isolated from the rest of the downtown....so it does not inspire any movement from the Landing to downtown or vice versa....it is just "Lets go to the Landing" as if it is more than Twisted Martinis, Hooters, and a few closed at 8 (or whatever early time they close) fast food places)
3) something going on (build a park or amphitheater in the downtown, bring people there for concerts surround it with businesses, have events there everyday whether big name concerts or just local artists, guys that juggle flaming torches, whatever......have something going on). I guess they could use Hemming Plaza now. Expand the Art Walk to Wed and Fri's.....1st and last.
4) End the depression (I frequently try to go to the core with friends for happy hour, food, latenight, etc. and most of the time the places we go to are almost empty....this is depressing...also I have talked to people who live downtown and their only words are "its kind of boring"....kind of?....of course no one is there after 5pm....the place is deserted...because there is nothing to do)
Don't give me this bullshit that I should be dissappointed that these "housing projects failed." Good I am glad. These outside investors did some paperwork and said lets invest in condos in Jacksonville. They probably do not live here because if they did they would realize that more housing is the last thing downtown needs. The place is empty already. Empty.
Stop investing in condos. Invest in restaurants, entertainment, parks, anti-depression, ethnic celebrations, ethnic parades, nightlife, techno coffee shops, libraries.
Empty.
I agree with nearly everything you said, but no rooftops, no retail. Simple as that. The artists/bohemenians/pioneers have to move in first before the coffee shops, restaurants, entertainment will have a customer base. The problem is the prices have already exceeded what the artists/bohemenians/pioneers can afford. Catch-22 stalemate.
This is why its a bad thing to continue to demolish historic buildings. Its much easier for an artist/bohemian or urban pioneer to afford to fix up a small old building then to buy a downtown lot and build a new modern structure on it.
Quote from: copperfiend on January 10, 2008, 09:17:43 AM
Fuddruckers? I had forgotten all about that. Do they stil have the "Coming Soon" sign on the front of that space?
I don't know about the interior wall, but its been removed from the outdoor courtyard windows.
I think a lot of these died because they were based in the incentives the city was offering, and not in a real interest to revive downtown.
Until the growth of downtown is more organic and natural, its not likely to take solid hold.
There are tons of ways to make this happen, but the city has to want it.
It is a catch-22. Like vic's point (and correct me if I misunderstood), the developer's were building on the premise that just the act of putting in homes would increase interest which would cause them to sell. More people living in downtown = more people shopping, eating, playing in downtown, so the businesses would readily stay open past 5pm or 8pm because the people living there would ultimately require it.
The businesses in downtown can't afford to stay open past peak hours right now. They would most certainly fail with one or two people coming in from Springfield or down the street to grab a burger. They have increased prices just to make ends meet as it is. Business men will pay $10 for a burger at lunch, so that offsets what they could've made if they were in a large residential area like Southside staying open til 9pm and selling burgers for half the cost.
I disagree with the "artists/bohemians" theory though. These residences were not built with them in mind. They were built with the wealthy young business person in mind...even the ones from other states. We're talking about not just rebuilding a downtown but just short of creating one from scratch. In order to do that, it requires money...money that folks from Southside or Orange Park and especially the "artists/bohemians", just don't have, to be able to sell their homes, pack up the family and move downtown. If those condo developments draw people with money from other states that see just how empty downtown is, they'll come here with investment and vision on their minds. They'll move here, buy retail/business space, set up shop and start generating some revenue by people who already live in downtown and the surrounding areas. That opens the doors for the artists who scraped all they had together to open an art-gallery, coffee shop, or record store, to start turning profit. You need money to make money. That's the catch-22.
NJ: We DO have an amphitheatre as well as a HUGE and very expensive collesium that rarely get used. I can't tell you when the last major recording artist was here (and I'm talking the Elton John's, Rolling Stones, and U2's of the world). They all go to Orlando, Miami or Atlanta. The city doesn't even do a decent job of booking the stadium. There is never anything going on down there when games aren't in full force.
I don't know how we can ever expect to fill the developments or generate any money into our city when we do little to draw anyone here. And no, one freakin SuperBowl does not make up for all the poor-planning and lack of foresight, lol.
Quote from: Pavers on January 10, 2008, 08:47:06 AM
The silver lining is that I'd rather have a long laundry-list or proposed but delayed/cancelled projects than a short one. Rome was not built in a day and neither will be a resurgent downtown. I
t's a matter of time (and admittedly it could be as much as a few years) for the real estate market to settle before many of these developers dust of their plans, make some tweaks, and begin to build again. Things are headed in the right direction. The core fundamentals that caused these developers to propose these projects aren't going to go away - the real estate market did however, but it will back.
My thoughts exactly, Pavers. That list says to me that Jacksonville is an up and comming city full of potential and those developers recognized it. The market slump is the sole reason for their pull-out IMO and when things get back to normal they'll be returning with renewed vigor. Let's just hope the city is ready for them this time and the approval process streamlined, as well as the master plan well implemented.
A few ideas to get people downtown (other than for the art walk):
Homeless roller "show off" at Hemming Plaza
Give the homeless some roller skates, set up a sound system to play disco/techno/hip hop music, and let them skate around with wireless mics. They can "sound off" as they skate around. You can have just freestyle skating where the homestyle just entertain on their skates with the music and the micorphones, or you can have races, or both. We do need an outdoor roller rink to be built though. A great investment opportunity. Free admission, but sell hot dogs, beer, etc. Pay the homeless some of the proceeds from the beer, hot dogs, etc.
Saturday afternoon Monkey Painting at Hemming Plaza
Put down some cloth. Set up big 2'x10' matboards. Give a few monkeys some paintbrushes and paint cans and lets see what they can do. Again sell cotton candy, soda, hot dogs. Proceeds go to the monkeys (just kidding). Display the results at the Landing. "Look what these monkeys can do!"
Some more ideas:
Guys that Juggle flaming torches
Drum concerts
Ethnic celebrations
BBQ Cook Offs
I do think that there needs to be more going on downtown. Something at Hemming Plaza, something at the Landing, something on East Bay St., something at the Times Union.....all at once...at least every weekend. The downtown needs to bring people in. More events....more advertising...there is an investment.
And these events need to be complimented by cafes/restaurants/etc that have outdoor seating. Art shops/clothing stores/ lounges etc. that are visible before people walk from the event to their cars. They need to be close to the entertainment centers.
The ideas are endless. Implementation is lacking. Who is in charge here? What is their purpose/goal for downtown? That is the real question. A nobody like myself can post ideas on this blog all day and nothing happens unless the guys in charge have the same drive/opinions that I do.
Quote"Look what these monkeys can do!"
We already have that too. It's called, JTA ;D
NJ: We DO have an amphitheatre as well as a HUGE and very expensive collesium that rarely get used. I can't tell you when the last major recording artist was here (and I'm talking the Elton John's, Rolling Stones, and U2's of the world). They all go to Orlando, Miami or Atlanta. The city doesn't even do a decent job of booking the stadium. There is never anything going on down there when games aren't in full force.
This is not true. I personally within the past 2 months have been to several events at the Arena including an R Kelley concert. Van Halen will be playing, Hannah Montanna, Dancing With The Stars, the Police Fireman Boxing event, Micaheal Buble.. there are lots of events at The Arena. I suggest you visit the box office and go to some events.
I agree with Dapperdan to a large degree. I've noticed in my time living near downtown that for the most part people don't "come outside". It's like there are events that happen, but noone attends them. When I moved to Riverside I was really shocked at how many things actually go on that aren't publicized. I think part of the reason (which has been discussed over and over on this site) is accessiblity and options. It's simply not worth the pain to actually get out and do things downtown. Case in point. Last year's Caribbean fest that was held at Metro Park. It was a GREAT. I was told that it's been going on here for some years now, but the numbers were very low. I asked some friends of mine who seemed interested why they didn't attend, and almost every one of them said that it was too much of a hassle to go do anything downtown only to have to leave in a couple hours.
Like it was said before, it's sort of a catch 22. Where do you put the blame here? The city, for not having proper accessibility and entertainment, or the people for being lazy. Surely in Miami and South Beach you get the same traffic headaches (probably more), but people don't seem to mind because once you're parked, you can pretty much stay in the area all day and night with various activities.
But, if the people don't come, there is no real incentive to open more entertainment/cultural venues, and without more venues, the people won't come.
synergy....connectivity.....
All of the problems going on today are a direct result of not having these two things downtown.
The location of Metropolitan Park has a lot to do with the low turn out. We can call it downtown and it may be within DVI's imaginary borders, but its a mile away from the Northbank core with nothing interesting in between. What goes on there is just as beneficial to the Northbank as what goes on at Edward Waters College or Hendricks Avenue. Everything has and continues to be developed with no relation to their surroundings.
Instead of having these things in Metropolitan Park, maybe we should try to have them in Hemming Plaza and on the sidewalks of Laura and Hogan between the Landing and Hemming? Doing this would actually expose visitors to the shops that are downtown and mix them in with people visiting the Landing and Library, creating a bigger crowd and pulling in walk up traffic. Do that enough and then the core starts to get the notion of being the place to be, which attracts more residences, retailers and cultural events.
Looking back, I truly believe not getting the Landing's courtyard opened up to Laura Street, before the Super Bowl was one of the largest tragedies in urban Jacksonville's recent history.
QuoteThis is not true. I personally within the past 2 months have been to several events at the Arena including an R Kelley concert. Van Halen will be playing, Hannah Montanna, Dancing With The Stars, the Police Fireman Boxing event, Micaheal Buble.. there are lots of events at The Arena. I suggest you visit the box office and go to some events.
Uh...I think you just proved my point. With the exception of Van Halen, and the Police, I would hardly put "Dancing with The Stars", "Fireman Boxing", "Michael Buble", "R. Kelly" and "Hannah Montana" up there with U2 and the Rolling Stones. I guess if the city's goal is to attract people over the age of 60, under the age of 12, or pedophile supporters into downtown, then you're right. They're doing a great job.
It's true there's probably a lot more going on down there than I know of because like webini said, it's just not publicized very well. I've been out to ticketmaster on several occasions and have seen little to nothing. The shows that seemed interesting were either playing at the Florida Theatre or Freebird down at Jax beach. The only thing I've seen scheduled at the stadium during off-season is an occasional monster truck show.
If we could get one major event/concert in here every month or so and then fill the rest of the time with the Dancing with the Stars on Ice with Boxing Gloves kind of stuff, that's be great.
Sadly Hannah Montana would kick the fudge out of a U2, Rolling Stones double bill anywhere. We get shows but Orlando is always going to get its' share too.
there are a few big country stars coming Geoge Strait later this month and Alan Jackson next month. It's hard for Jax to attract every big name act because we have to compete with Palm Beach/Ft lauderdale/Miami, Tampa and Orlando! What gets me is when I see big name artist (Lynard Skynard to name one) go to Gainesville and not Jacksonville.
How is Michael Buble' not a great act? That is a different act to come to Jacksonville, IMO, a lounge singer. Celtic Women is comming, like I said, Van Halen, Blue Man Group, George Straight, Guns N Hoses, Steve Harvey, Hannah Montanna. I don't think there are any really big acts touring right now. So I think that is a pretty good lineup.
I know we have to compete with all the other big cities like Orlando...but we should be our own big city, #$%@it! And yes, it is sad that Hannah Montana is what's considered a big act nowadays ~sigh~. Dang, even New Kids on the Block was better...nevermind, I can't even believe I was going to say that.
Is it just me or does it seem as though events are fewer now adays in Jax as they were in say, '99? Or have I just gotten older?
Quote from: Webini on January 10, 2008, 03:23:53 PM
Is it just me or does it seem as though events are fewer now adays in Jax as they were in say, '99? Or have I just gotten older?
I'm with you. I've been here since 1990 and though there are spurts, for the most part it seems as if things have just petered out.
Back to the earlier theme in this thread.
Here's a first hand experience from a couple of "artists/bohemians/pioneers", a New York couple in search of cheaper square footage in an urban setting.
For over 2 years now we've been trying to get a hold of a downtown Jax building to turn into live/work space. Ready to take on the impossible, we have checked out every vacant building and knocked on every door imaginable. While waiting to hear the news on our latest bid, our hopes are extremely low. Property owners are simply not willing to negotiate. If they can't get the asking price (all of which are unreasonably high), they'll simply board up the building and wait (that usually means wait until the building is dilapidated, then turn it into a parking lot).
One of the properties we were very serious about is city owned. Although in an extremely poor condition, we were more than willing to put all of our money, time and effort into it. If anything we thought the city would be glad that someone was willing to take on such a crazy project, but ...... the price they asked was ... to put it mildly, outrageous! Actually, we thought the price was purposely designed to turn away people like us.
Why do property owners have a such a skewed idea of what downtown Jax really is? Could it be all those grandiose redevelopment plans we hear about over and over again?
Take a closer look at the list of failed downtown projects. Besides the Historic Adaptive Reuse list, hardly any are worth crying after. Most were just vertical gated communities, with their backs turned to the street life, stealing the river views away from the rest of the city (just like that pompous Berkman Plaza).
Life can not be planned or designed on a piece of paper. It has to happen on it's own. It has to be allowed to happen.
Sorry for the rant, but ... this city has a way of frustrating a person more than New York can!
QuoteLife can not be planned or designed on a piece of paper. It has to happen on it's own. It has to be allowed to happen.
Sorry for the rant, but ... this city has a way of frustrating a person more than New York can!
Nothing truer has ever been spoken. Welcome to the forum and to Jax ;)
Wow. Great post. You just nailed it from afar. It alls goes back to the leadership in the city. The city could follow any one of a number of examples to see a revitalized core. Instead we worry about planning for an outer loop and BRT.
Ive said it before, I will say it again. Tony Allegretti for Mayor!!!
well the calssic backlash of the dieing american realstate industry
I wouldn't say that all of these urban projects are scratched of delayed. A lot of these projects, mostly residential, couldn't be built until the residential real estate market is restored. And PLEASE, we all due respect, but even the mayor and the city council wanted these projects to get built. The people of Downtown Vision said so themselves. I know, I've been to there downtown office four times. It's like I said, it's the fallen real estate market that kept some of the project from being built not the city. After all, I think that we have been murmuring and complaining for the wrong reasons. All of that can't get anything done and its won't make this city any better. I'm sorry but it's true ::). We will see some, if not all of these projects get built. So there's really no need to worry. 8) Jesus Loves You... Stay Positive!
QuoteI wouldn't say that all of these urban projects are scratched or delayed. A lot of these projects, mostly residential, couldn't be built until the residential real estate market is restored.
Wouldn't that make them.......delayed?
QuoteIt's like I said, it's the fallen real estate market that kept some of the project from being built not the city. After all, I think that we have been murmuring and complaining for the wrong reasons. All of that can't get anything done and its won't make this city any better.
I don't believe you can blame the city for some of these developments falling through, but I also don't think we do the city any good looking at things through rose colored glasses. We have problems that we need to face up to and fix to move forward in the future. It doesn't get anymore positive then being able to admit we're not perfect and working to strive for perfection by addressing the negative factors that hold the core back.
Quote from: jeh1980 on January 16, 2008, 11:58:44 PM
I wouldn't say that all of these urban projects are scratched of delayed. A lot of these projects, mostly residential, couldn't be built until the residential real estate market is restored. And PLEASE, we all due respect, but even the mayor and the city council wanted these projects to get built. The people of Downtown Vision said so themselves. I know, I've been to there downtown office four times. It's like I said, it's the fallen real estate market that kept some of the project from being built not the city. After all, I think that we have been murmuring and complaining for the wrong reasons. All of that can't get anything done and its won't make this city any better. I'm sorry but it's true ::). We will see some, if not all of these projects get built. So there's really no need to worry. 8) Jesus Loves You... Stay Positive!
The slump in the housing market is no doubt a huge factor in the housing slowdown DT (and citywide), and the city government is not to blame for that.
However.... The city IS to blame for the courthouse not being under construction (and probably close to finished by now) and by extention ALL of the office and other projects that were proposed as spinoff from that.
Private money follows public money, the BJP proved that.
Also, had Peyton not screwed it up, the Landing might be undergoing a major expansion/renovation as well. Instead, all we ended up with is some amusement park renderings, and an outdated '80's centerpiece for DT. YOU MUST OPEN THE DOOR WHEN OPPORTUNITY KNOCKS!
The Haydon Burns Library project might also be further along if the city had not taken an inordinate amount of time to select a buyer for it.
The Main St. pocket park was been a waste of $700K that could better have been spent differently (like Smart parking meters !!) .
I could go on, but I think I've made my point.
Just because the housing market is slumping, does not mean I'm going to give a "pass" to the city for all the mistakes they have made, and the complete dearth of vision.
YOU can lower your standards for our public servants, I choose not to.
Seriously - how muck is LaVilla being held back because it's separated by three blocks with no sidewalks and dirt.
Plus closed streets. It is Jacksonville's ground zero, except the terrorists in this case are over in city hall.
I think it's the mindset of the people that continues to hold Jacksonville back. We are a very large city with small-town thinkers. Furthermore, many of our white residents still prefer to flee from areas where non-whites are thought to be in greater numbers. Simple as that. The white flight that took place in the 1970's is still alive in the minds of many locals. That's why the proliferation of development in Mandarin and the Southside, and thus downtown suffers. People would rather drive 20 miles to work than entertain the idea of moving downtown.
I live downtown and when I mention that fact to people elsewhere in Jacksonville, oftentimes they
1) ask why
2)ask if I'm afraid
3)say they haven't been downtown in years but remember it as a frightening, dark part of town
Downtown has a public relations image problem that is based on past fears rather than reality. I'd take a evening walk in Downtown over Arlington or Mandarin anyday.
Even my neighbors, sad to say, shock me with their narrow-minded comments. It seems they want to live around only people who look, think, vote like they do. They question why non-whites are walking down the sidewalks in front of theirr homes. (answer: because they are citizens of these United States and lived downtown long before you did.)
I just thought this was a missing piece of the puzzle to why downtown Jacksonville remains stagnant. It is a reflection of our city's collective mindset. The coolest, most open-minded of my neighbors have relocated from urban centers in more progressive cities. They are often disappointed. If they are non-white , they usually say they are not used to being treated with this subtle yet ever-present rascism that exists here. There's the reality from a downtown pioneer. Happy MLK day!
I agree, to an extent.
Downtown living has made big strides. I feel like once the real estate market's down turn is over downtown will finally find that residential tipping point.
Give the homeless some roller skates, set up a sound system to play disco/techno/hip hop music, and let them skate around with wireless mics.
I was feeling sad until I read this line!!!! WOW!! This would be some funny shit!! ROFLMAO!! thanks
Quote from: jaxwilll on January 21, 2008, 11:12:52 PM
I live downtown and when I mention that fact to people elsewhere in Jacksonville, oftentimes they
1) ask why
2)ask if I'm afraid
3)say they haven't been downtown in years but remember it as a frightening, dark part of town
Downtown has a public relations image problem that is based on past fears rather than reality. I'd take a evening walk in Downtown over Arlington or Mandarin anyday.
Wow man that's really sad. When I go building hunting downtown from about 1am to 3am in the morning there is nothing to worry about. There is no crime downtown.....I just come out park my car at a Hemming Park corner and walk. I may see a sleeping bum here or there and the occasional JSO patrol car and thats it. Just me and the streets and the buildings. There is no crime downtown.
personally I think they should stop trying to build luxury high rises and try converting the great vacant buildings already downtown. After they do that they can slowy start to get people back into the area and build clubs, resturaunts, cofee shops, etc. then the high rises will come it just takes pactience, and a little attention. ;)
I have been born and raised in this poor backwards little burg and I left for a year to live in (of all places) Des moines, Iowa. Sad part? I lived in downtown Des Moines (a city where the entire metro accounts for 500,00 people) and always had something to do or somewhere to go. Now I live just north of downtown and most days I have no reason to cross first street (unless I'm going to work or the burrito gallery).
The problems I see are primarily price, a distorted view of downtown from the outside (several of my friends who have lived in Jax for years are terrified of downtown), lack of a community feel, and no space whatsoever for anyone who isn't a multi-millionaire to do anything.
Why is Riverside and San Marco so cool now? poor people bought cheap houses and rented cheap storefronts and made the kind of places they want. Naturally the community starved suburbanite would see this is a thriving community to get into and slowly force the uglier and poorer sections out so they can have this great community all to themselves (anyone been to riverside lately? I leave for a year and when I come back it feels like san marco). If the city was to open some of the smaller buildings (I have 6 I can think of off the top of my head) up to anyone who would do something with them (and yes I mean the bohemian/artist/pioneer type) they may be surprised at the result. for now the only hope I have for downtown to do anything worth getting up for is Chamblin's (and every time I ask when he is going to open he always says 2 weeks or so, but he's been saying that for 5 months).
And would a decent grocery store be too much to ask?
Hopefully, The Library project will be something that becomes a catalyst for downtown vibrancy. It will be an impressive scene, if pulled off successfully.
Jacksonville needs to heed the call of the future:
Shortcut to: http://online.wsj.com/article/SB121538754733231043.html?mod=hps_us_inside_today
great article.
Fantastic article.
We could definitely use some planning like that around here.