I know it's an old article, but still an interesting one.
http://m.jacksonville.com/business/2009-12-13/story/lights_dimming_on_jacksonvilles_bold_plans_for_downtown#dda (http://m.jacksonville.com/business/2009-12-13/story/lights_dimming_on_jacksonvilles_bold_plans_for_downtown#dda)
As a DT resident for almost 9 years I'd say things have improved since 2009 and that DT seems to be a hot spot for new local businesses compared to the city as a whole.
DT did fade but it has been improving for the last few years.
I like how it mentions the plans that Sleiman had for the landing. I really wish that he could get some support on that and those plans could go forth.
Its def improved over the last couple years & there are new businesses, but its still not nearly up to snuff of what a DT in a city of this size should be. A lot of the new stuff is mostly bars & nightlife oriented. Downtown has to be more things to more people before the tides will truly turn. But you have to start somewhere I suppose.
BTW, here's the non-mobile version of the article: http://jacksonville.com/business/2009-12-13/story/lights_dimming_on_jacksonvilles_bold_plans_for_downtown
This is a continuation of the topic I began on Show Me the Money. The '09 T-U article fits right in to that topic. It poses a very specific question the concerns me and should concern all of us: I believe the City is right to offer incentives and possibly even direct loans for downtown development. BUT, I firmly believe that neither should be done unless the developer - the one with the profit motive - has "some skin in the game." If not, then it's a "heads I win " (if there is profit) or "tails you lose" (if the project tanks and the guy with the profit motive only loses the time invested). Maybe it is okay for the City to not directly participate if a project it helps is successful, because it will benefit indirectly from the success, but if the idea is "sharing" then there ought to be more than time and energy lost by the developer if the project fails.
I have worked downtown most of my professional life beginning in '65. I left in the late-80s and returned in 2005. I saw the big decline when the stores left, the Great Wall of China (a/k/a the Skyway) was built, the Landing opened and then lost its upscale retailers, the local owners of the large insurance companies sold and took their money and Independent and Gulf Life and Peninsular left, etc. (So why do we still have streets named after Independent and Peninsular?)
I don't see much change since the T-U article. Chew closed in favor of Five Points, Indochine opened (hope it's doing very well - it deserves to be), Everbank is coming (sort of big - credit column), Berkman II sits (pretty big - debit column). The Laura Street "improvements" have been built - somewhat increasing the width of sidewalks - that few use - and decreasing the width of the street itself so that when one parallel parks, following traffic is halted.
In discussing downtown, I propose a thread on what I'll call the Maxwell House dilemma. A few years ago, when MH was maybe going to leave town, we united to keep it here - a right move. But its manufacturing facility sits across the street from the Shipyards [not a] project. Okay, the aromas are strong but mostly acceptable, but the appearance of the factory is a bit out of place across the street from what was supposed to be upscale development. Suggestions anyone?
The statement I originally posed still hangs there: Show me the money.
See this recent T-U article about City assisted projects that are pretty much dead in the water.
http://jacksonville.com/news/metro/2012-03-08/story/jacksonville-projects-sit-idle-after-being-infused-city-taxpayer-money
Quote from: WmNussbaum on March 10, 2012, 07:36:06 PM
This is a continuation of the topic I began on Show Me the Money. The '09 T-U article fits right in to that topic. It poses a very specific question the concerns me and should concern all of us: I believe the City is right to offer incentives and possibly even direct loans for downtown development. BUT, I firmly believe that neither should be done unless the developer - the one with the profit motive - has "some skin in the game." If not, then it's a "heads I win " (if there is profit) or "tails you lose" (if the project tanks and the guy with the profit motive only loses the time invested). Maybe it is okay for the City to not directly participate if a project it helps is successful, because it will benefit indirectly from the success, but if the idea is "sharing" then there ought to be more than time and energy lost by the developer if the project fails.
I have worked downtown most of my professional life beginning in '65. I left in the late-80s and returned in 2005. I saw the big decline when the stores left, the Great Wall of China (a/k/a the Skyway) was built, the Landing opened and then lost its upscale retailers, the local owners of the large insurance companies sold and took their money and Independent and Gulf Life and Peninsular left, etc. (So why do we still have streets named after Independent and Peninsular?)
I don't see much change since the T-U article. Chew closed in favor of Five Points, Indochine opened (hope it's doing very well - it deserves to be), Everbank is coming (sort of big - credit column), Berkman II sits (pretty big - debit column). The Laura Street "improvements" have been built - somewhat increasing the width of sidewalks - that few use - and decreasing the width of the street itself so that when one parallel parks, following traffic is halted.
In discussing downtown, I propose a thread on what I'll call the Maxwell House dilemma. A few years ago, when MH was maybe going to leave town, we united to keep it here - a right move. But its manufacturing facility sits across the street from the Shipyards [not a] project. Okay, the aromas are strong but mostly acceptable, but the appearance of the factory is a bit out of place across the street from what was supposed to be upscale development. Suggestions anyone?
The statement I originally posed still hangs there: Show me the money.
Hmmm..... you got me on MH. Asking them to build a factory elsewhere in the city is rather risky and could drive them to pack up and leave. Incentives might help, but it could still threaten them. I would like to see some of the old Kuhn projects revived. I don't know what that would take. A good argument could be that this country hit rock bottom during those times. Those were some good projects. I know I keep bringing up the landing, but I remember seeing the plans for what Sleiman wanted to do with it. They were nice plans. I still hope he is fighting for that, because I believe that the landing is somewhat of a key to help downtown out. "If you build it, they will come." I know that hasn't been the case in the past, but I still believe.
The chasing off of industrial, maritime, and railroad facilities is the main reason for downtown's decline. IMO, Maxwell House should stay and we should consider a working waterfront over a passive one lined with condos.
If the Jail is staying, there is no sense in running off MH.
Moving the jail, police station and the myriad bail bond offices to another location such as Imeson or Cecil would go a long way toward making downtown a bit more friendly.
Accomplishing such a 'clean-up' and an active recruitment of unique anchor retail to a site like the Shipyards would bust the erroneous thought that downtown is somehow uniquely vacant and dangerous.
If the city could function as a mixed use project developer and we could attract several unique anchor stores such as Ikea or Bass Pro, and develop an upscale entertainment complex along Hogans Creek, the pedestrian sidewalk and Riverwalk traffic would hit new highs.
Quote from: Ocklawaha on March 11, 2012, 12:15:37 PM
Moving the jail, police station and the myriad bail bond offices to another location such as Imeson or Cecil would go a long way toward making downtown a bit more friendly.
Accomplishing such a 'clean-up' and an active recruitment of unique anchor retail to a site like the Shipyards would bust the erroneous thought that downtown is somehow uniquely vacant and dangerous.
If the city could function as a mixed use project developer and we could attract several unique anchor stores such as Ikea or Bass Pro, and develop an upscale entertainment complex along Hogans Creek, the pedestrian sidewalk and Riverwalk traffic would hit new highs.
I agree. Move the jail. There's condos next to it. Who wants to live near a jail?
Where would the money come from to move the jail? It would be cheaper to move the condos (I'm not suggesting moving Berkman, lol). However, I wouldn't get to caught up on the jail. Fort Lauderdale has a jail on its river and its downtown is still vibrant. In fact, its tallest condo tower and vertical Publix are both within a two block walk of it.
Does Fort Lauderdale allow the clutter of run down half way houses, bail bond, bounty hunter and soup kitchens, as we allow to be wrapped around our Jail? If not then that might be a good place to start a clean up for the purposes of getting more high value property off the public dole.
Ours wouldn't be cheap to move, that's a given, but if the entire police complex were to seek another location it would free up some amazing real estate for tax paying development. There might also be federal and or state grants to move an old, overcrowded Jail into a more state-of-the-art facility. I know a few places that have up dated and created a completely new complex for the criminal justice system.
The jail looks fairly modern (1970s/80s). If so, it will be around for a few decades.
Quote from: thelakelander on March 11, 2012, 03:53:22 PM
The jail looks fairly modern (1970s/80s). If so, it will be around for a few decades.
I think it was completed in 1991.
Wow. So it's not even 25 years old. It's definitely not going anywhere soon.
Quote from: thelakelander on March 11, 2012, 03:53:22 PM
The jail looks fairly modern (1970s/80s). If so, it will be around for a few decades.
............and decades from now,even if not so modern it may still be around.
Quote from: Anti redneck on March 11, 2012, 12:22:20 PM
I agree. Move the jail. There's condos next to it. Who wants to live near a jail?
maybe the people who live in Berkman...since the jail was there first!
Here is a picture of the Broward County Jail in DT Fort Lauderdale:
(http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_KMZs9Nysemw/S6UyPVT6lOI/AAAAAAAAAQk/Et89G66-jro/s320/IMG_0020.JPG)
(http://travelphotobase.com/i/USFL/FLL182.JPG)
Here is the Broward County Jail's newest neighbor and tallest building in DT Fort Lauderdale. The 42-story, 287 unit Las Olas River House. It features a 10,000 square foot glass walled fitness center overlooking the jail.
(http://photos.metrojacksonville.com/Learning-From/Fort-Lauderdale-Nov-2008/P1080052/453291051_aYxnM-M.jpg)
The jail in the center background of this Las Olas River image:
(http://photos.metrojacksonville.com/Learning-From/Fort-Lauderdale-March-2011/P1450013/1215525397_cgoNj-M.jpg)
Some may ask why I'm illustrating this. The point I'm trying to make is that we don't have to worry about spending money to relocate a jail or coffee plant to bring life to downtown.
As for big industry....
Baltimore Inner Harbor - Domino Sugar
(http://photos.metrojacksonville.com/Learning-From/Baltimore-MD-2009/P1250596/592129956_7mEAt-M.jpg)
Downtown Mobile - Port of Mobile
(http://photos.metrojacksonville.com/Learning-From/Mobile-April-2010/P1330189/837077646_oCUcz-M.jpg)
Downtown Norfolk - Metro Marine shipyard
(http://www.metrojacksonville.com/photos/thumbs/lrg-1526-p1020396.JPG)
Downtown Kansas City Garment Loft District - Folgers Coffee Roasting Plant
(http://photos.metrojacksonville.com/Learning-From/Kansas-City-August-2010/P1380275/968129537_zsK3k-M.jpg)
Thousands of loft units have grown around this coffee roasting plant that Folgers wants to shut down this summer. Downtown residents want it to remain manufacturing instead of being converted into another loft building. The community has since rallied to get a local coffee company to purchase the building and continue operating it as a coffee plant.
QuoteRoasterie founder plans bid to acquire Folgers Coffee factory
The comforting aroma of roastÂing coffee has long captivated people in downtown Kansas City. It even defines a disÂtrict there.
So when Folgers announced a year ago that it would close its GarÂment DisÂtrict plant by mid-2012, fans started a crusade to save it.
The “Please Don’t Close the Kansas City Folgers Plant!!†Facebook page now has more than 14,000 folÂlowers. One advocate pleaded: “We just don’t want the building to turn into the ‘Lofts of Folger Square.’ â€
Some people began peÂtitionÂing anÂothÂer coffee compaÂny, one with a strong folÂlowing in the community, to step in.
Danny O’Neill, founder of the RoasÂtÂerie, said he received more than 200 calls, e-mails and text messages afÂter the Folgers anÂnounceÂment. “Have you thought about taking the Folgers plant?†they said.
O’Neill tried to respond to each one. “Do you know how big it is?†he would say. “They roast in a day almost what we roast in a year.â€
But now O’Neill said he planned to make an offer for the propÂerty, even though anÂothÂer bid was pending. He said he hoped the community would back him.
When he toured the Folgers plant last fall, he found the size overwhelmÂing: 217,160 square feet over two mulÂtiÂstoÂried buildings. He tossed the reÂal estate brochure in the trash.
Fast-forward to last week. O’Neill returned from a buying trip to Costa Rica and found an esÂtiÂmate for an expanÂsion and renÂovation at the current RoasÂtÂerie site at 1204 W. 27th St. that topped $3.2 million. He didn’t expect it to be that much.
Then he heard the Folgers price tag was now $4.8 million. He didn’t expect it to be so low.
And it would be an even better deal if he sold off one of the Folgers’ buildings at 701 Broadway, earned tax credÂits for renÂovating a historic propÂerty, added a coffee shop on the first floor and converted a top floor into an event space.
The RoasÂtÂerie was founded in 1993 in O’Neill’s BrookÂside home. Less than a year latÂer it moved into a 2,000-square-foot space, and less than two years afÂter that it took a 13,000-square-foot site that was then so empty it echoed.
A decade latÂer the RoasÂtÂerie needs to expand again.
O’Neill said Kessinger Hunter got an offer last week from anÂothÂer poÂtential buyer for the Folgers plant. BroÂker Dan Jensen had no comÂment.
“It’s a landmark. The history â€" that would be awesome to be there roastÂing coffee,†said O’Neill from his office in the RoasÂtÂerie headquarÂters. “And we want to keep some of the Folgers employees. Some have been there 30 years, 32 years.â€
http://www.ongo.com/v/470084/-1/0369700D48156107/roasterie-founder-plans-bid-to-acquire-folgers-coffee-factory
All of the cities mentioned above have downtowns that are more vibrant than Jacksonville's. A lesson for Jacksonville would be don't chase big industry out of downtown. Companies like Maxwell House and North Florida Shipyards employ over 1,000 high paying downtown jobs combined. Instead, focus on addressing the surface parking lots and empty buildings that are littered all over downtown.
Quote from: thelakelander on March 11, 2012, 11:16:24 AM
The chasing off of industrial, maritime, and railroad facilities is the main reason for downtown's decline. IMO, Maxwell House should stay and we should consider a working waterfront over a passive one lined with condos.
I agree and a working waterfront. So who wants to kayak and fish under the brand new no fishing signs Downtown?
MJ'ers and Dist.5 fight for 2009-442
Jacksonville's Downtown CITIZENS REEF.
We Khan Make It Happen.
I want to kayak I will IM you.
^^^^^AWESOME!!!!!
We'll rock DOWNTOWN!
1. Under the TU building.
2. Hogans Creek. Cleanup this Sat. 8-11 then to RAM
3. Under the Hyatt parking lot
4. Sydney Gefen Park
5. Exchange Club Island
6. Kayaking and fishing Dist.5 over
Jacksonville's Downtown CITIZENS REEF
JeffreyS your in man.
We Khan Make It Happen.
We will be showing everyone.
We are Downtown and why you aren't.
Quote from: thelakelander on March 11, 2012, 01:41:44 PM
Where would the money come from to move the jail? It would be cheaper to move the condos (I'm not suggesting moving Berkman, lol). However, I wouldn't get to caught up on the jail. Fort Lauderdale has a jail on its river and its downtown is still vibrant. In fact, its tallest condo tower and vertical Publix are both within a two block walk of it.
At least if there's a domestic disturbance call, police won't have to go far. ;D
Quote from: Noone on March 11, 2012, 11:09:11 PM
Quote from: thelakelander on March 11, 2012, 11:16:24 AM
The chasing off of industrial, maritime, and railroad facilities is the main reason for downtown's decline. IMO, Maxwell House should stay and we should consider a working waterfront over a passive one lined with condos.
I agree and a working waterfront. So who wants to kayak and fish under the brand new no fishing signs Downtown?
MJ'ers and Dist.5 fight for 2009-442
Jacksonville's Downtown CITIZENS REEF.
We Khan Make It Happen.
YEAH!!! Stick it to the man!
Nice job, Lakelander. I stand corrected on Maxwell House. Now I'd like to know the per capita income in Broward County and Baltimore vs. Duval County. I suspect there is a noticeable disparity.
I checked with Wolfram Alpha, and in 1999, Duval was $20,753, Broward was $23,170, and Baltimore was $26,167. That doesn't sound like a lot, but for a family of 4, the difference is $10,000 a year between us and Broward. I'll bet it's a greater divide today - 13 years later.
Jacksonville's problem is, I think, a small base of people with something approaching wealth, however defined. I hope you can correct me on that - it'll give me hope.
And Pittsburgh has a jail downtown right next to Duquesne Univ. A lot of cities do. And I love the Maxwell House Plant. I do wish they would open a coffee museum on ground floor open to the shipyards property.
Quote from: WmNussbaum on March 12, 2012, 09:58:19 AM
Nice job, Lakelander. I stand corrected on Maxwell House. Now I'd like to know the per capita income in Broward County and Baltimore vs. Duval County. I suspect there is a noticeable disparity.
I checked with Wolfram Alpha, and in 1999, Duval was $20,753, Broward was $23,170, and Baltimore was $26,167. That doesn't sound like a lot, but for a family of 4, the difference is $10,000 a year between us and Broward. I'll bet it's a greater divide today - 13 years later.
sure, but income and cost of living go hand-in-hand...I can assure you that Jax. is at least 20% less expensive than Baltimore and likely similar vs. Ft. Lauderdale
Addition through subtraction will not improve DT and will probably make things worse. The jail and police bldg employ a lot of people. The Bay St district and Cathedral District need that daily presence of workers especially with the impending migration of the courthouse and related offices to the west.
Quote from: urbanlibertarian on March 12, 2012, 12:19:45 PM
Addition through subtraction will not improve DT and will probably make things worse. The jail and police bldg employ a lot of people. The Bay St district and Cathedral District need that daily presence of workers especially with the impending migration of the courthouse and related offices to the west.
+1
Noone, like I told you at CPAC, I want to kayak or canoe with you too. Send me a PM. Let's set something up in the next few weeks.
Went to the Landing Sat around 8pm. The place was dead. Only 4 restaurants left in the upper section. Very sad.
What is the current cost of living Downtown? A few years ago, it seemed pretty high. Has that changed? How does it compare to other and more developed Downtowns?
Quote from: respman on March 12, 2012, 06:04:40 PM
Went to the Landing Sat around 8pm. The place was dead. Only 4 restaurants left in the upper section. Very sad.
I think Sleiman just about gave up on it. It doesn't look any different now than when he first bought it.
Quote from: respman on March 12, 2012, 06:04:40 PM
Went to the Landing Sat around 8pm. The place was dead. Only 4 restaurants left in the upper section. Very sad.
so I guess you didn't go in the courtyard?
Friday night the place was packed, as Jake Own was performing at Mavericks....and there was a Gumbo festival in the courtyard Saturday afternoon.
Bottom line...the courtyard restaurants appear to be doing better of late.
Well, the city does owe the Landing a parking deck.....
Quote from: Anti redneck on March 12, 2012, 07:07:04 PM
Quote from: respman on March 12, 2012, 06:04:40 PM
Went to the Landing Sat around 8pm. The place was dead. Only 4 restaurants left in the upper section. Very sad.
I think Sleiman just about gave up on it. It doesn't look any different now than when he first bought it.
Might not look like it did when Sleiman bought it, but at least now the elevators smell like urine.
The upstairs food court does look bad, but I have to say it appears busier than it used to be. I go at least three times a week to the gym there. There always seems to be something going on in courtyard. It always helps to have something going on at the TUPAC or if there is a large meeting at the Hyatt. Several stores have also opened inside.
Quote from: fsujax on March 13, 2012, 09:22:05 AM
The upstairs food court does look bad, but I have to say it appears busier than it used to be. I go at least three times a week to the gym there. There always seems to be something going on in courtyard. It always helps to have something going on at the TUPAC or if there is a large meeting at the Hyatt. Several stores have also opened inside.
Did I miss something? When did they name the Times-Union Center after Tupac? :D
They really need some serious remodeling done for the Landing!. Really felt uncomfortable in that place.
TUPAC is just fun to say! thanks for the back-up Stephen.
^ yeah...I made a mistake in a thread a long time back, assuming that someone was making racial comments when speaking of all the people that go to the Landing after TUPAC.
Quote from: Rynjny on March 13, 2012, 11:50:30 AM
They really need some serious remodeling done for the Landing!. Really felt uncomfortable in that place.
The place needs a complete gutting. It is terrible. The inside is terribly outdated and the westside is a real dead zone. I give it a chance a few times a year and always leave thinking what a waste.
I wonder if Sleiman is still interested in buying the land underneath from the city.
The upstairs needs to emptied out. It's a waste of leasable space as a food court. On the other hand, the interior mall needs to revamped to allow the stores to face Laura Street and Independent Drive. A good start would be tranforming the west mall to a new food court that opens up to the courtyard where the Jackson statue used to be. That would allow the upstairs food court to be leased to a restaurant/entertainment anchor that would be willing to pay higher leasing rates for riverfront views. In the end, there would be less common area to heat and cool and more space being leased to revenue generating businesses.
A good start would be a crane with a wrecking ball after bubble-wrapping MacCools.... Possibly Chicago's Pizza as well
Agreed. It needs a complete revamping. I like the plan of opeinging up the center to Laura St.
Quote from: acme54321 on March 13, 2012, 02:01:47 PM
Agreed. It needs a complete revamping. I like the plan of opeinging up the center to Laura St.
I seriously doubt that will ever happen.
Quote from: urbanlibertarian on March 13, 2012, 01:20:15 PM
I wonder if Sleiman is still interested in buying the land underneath from the city.
I don't think the city will sell it to him. It's like they know what they're doing and want to drive it in the ground.
Quote from: Rynjny on March 13, 2012, 11:50:30 AM
They really need some serious remodeling done for the Landing!. Really felt uncomfortable in that place.
Like I said, I just don't think that'll ever happen.
Quote from: mtraininjax on March 12, 2012, 11:30:03 PM
Well, the city does owe the Landing a parking deck.....
They will never give it to him.
Quote from: Ocklawaha on March 13, 2012, 09:18:33 AM
Quote from: Anti redneck on March 12, 2012, 07:07:04 PM
Quote from: respman on March 12, 2012, 06:04:40 PM
Went to the Landing Sat around 8pm. The place was dead. Only 4 restaurants left in the upper section. Very sad.
I think Sleiman just about gave up on it. It doesn't look any different now than when he first bought it.
Might not look like it did when Sleiman bought it, but at least now the elevators smell like urine.
So it's gotten worse. That's good to know.
Quote from: copperfiend on March 13, 2012, 12:54:01 PM
Quote from: Rynjny on March 13, 2012, 11:50:30 AM
They really need some serious remodeling done for the Landing!. Really felt uncomfortable in that place.
The place needs a complete gutting. It is terrible. The inside is terribly outdated and the westside is a real dead zone. I give it a chance a few times a year and always leave thinking what a waste.
Very outdated. Yet, nothing has been done about it, nor has anything even been tried. Sad.
Shad Khan needs to buy the Landing!!!
I have no problem with it. I think it is a beautiful place that is mismanaged. I do like the idea of opening it up.
I am interested to know - if you go to the Landing regularly, why? If you don't, why not?
My answer is that I don't frequent the place. Why not? In the evening, I would be driving past San Marco Square which has more to do - better food, movie theater, wine bar, and the high probability I will see friends. In other words, I am more likely to frequent my neighborhood commercial area. For shopping on the weekend - well there isn't anything there that sells what I'm interested in. And on top of that, I perceive it as a pain to park. It may not be, but I just can't get that out of my head. Plus I remember having to pay for parking which I loathe to do (funny that I will gladly pay to ride a train or bus). I don't even know if you still have to pay, or if you can get vouchers to waive the fee - it still seems like a pain.
I don't have a solution for the woes. But it seems that with more people working DT and better connection to where people live (by reliable frequent transit service) it would improve.
QuoteShad Khan needs to buy the Landing!!!
Actually, I'd rather he buy and manage the southbank riverwalk, before Alvin allows it to fall into the river. Alvin claims they are working with businesses to make sure they have access to the Riverwalk while it is being repaired, but HEY, what if there is NO RIVERWALK, will it really matter?
Khan is the best thing to happen to Jax, too bad our idiot politicians say whatever it takes to get elected and continue to do NOTHING!!!!!
Quote from: dougskiles on March 13, 2012, 08:47:08 PMI am interested to know - if you go to the Landing regularly, why? If you don't, why not?
I work three blocks away but I don't visit on a regular occasion. There's simply nothing I can get from there that I can get from the businesses scattered throughout the Northbank during the weekdays. Every now and then, I'll stop for some food if I'm visiting Wells Fargo or Suntrust but typically, I'd rather order from Burrito Gallery, Chamblin's, Chomp Chomp, Zodiac Grill, Midtown Deli, Justin's, etc. than the food court.
Quote from: mtraininjax on March 13, 2012, 08:59:26 PM
QuoteShad Khan needs to buy the Landing!!!
Actually, I'd rather he buy and manage the southbank riverwalk, before Alvin allows it to fall into the river. Alvin claims they are working with businesses to make sure they have access to the Riverwalk while it is being repaired, but HEY, what if there is NO RIVERWALK, will it really matter?
Khan is the best thing to happen to Jax, too bad our idiot politicians say whatever it takes to get elected and continue to do NOTHING!!!!!
My thoughts exactly. Whether it be Khan or anyone else interested in upgrading the southbank. Then build a crosswalk across the river that connects into the landing.
I go to the landing 3-4 times a week. Usually around early dinner time.
I always see people and I always have a good time.
I don't have a negative thing to say about the place.
The new Irish pub that opened is great.
I don't go that often, but really it's because of limited funds for entertainment. One can usually find a parking place fairly close by...within a block or two generally. It's not that hard, and it's free after 6:00, remember. The City doesn't enforce parking meters after 6:00 pm. I enjoy eating outside at Koja Sushi on nice days. The river is beautiful. There are usually people inside the Landing.
The food court leaves a lot to be desired. When I worked downtown, we often brought our lunches and ate in the conference room that faced the river. Best lunch room in town! If we ate out, we went to Zodiac Grille, the sandwich shop in the Bank of America Tower, the 42nd floor cafe, or sometimes Koja Sushi or Burrito Gallery.
Quote from: BigGuy219 on March 13, 2012, 09:40:33 PM
I go to the landing 3-4 times a week. Usually around early dinner time.
I always see people and I always have a good time.
I don't have a negative thing to say about the place.
The new Irish pub that opened is great.
You see, I try to look at things from a visitor's standpoint. More along the lines of, where would I take a visitor around Jacksonville. With that being said, the landing does not look appealing. I agree that it's structure is very outdated. If visitors came to the landing, how many of them would come back? Would a visitor be attracted? This statement to me sounds like Jacksonville has a "locals only" attitude.
If entertaining a guest, make sure to dine at a waterfront restaurant on a weekend evening. The atmosphere is lively enough that you won't easily notice the negatives.
Quote from: thelakelander on March 14, 2012, 12:35:03 AM
If entertaining a guest, make sure to dine at a waterfront restaurant on a weekend evening. The atmosphere is lively enough that you won't easily notice the negatives.
Ok, but what if it is just visitors without anyone to show them around, but staying at the Hyatt? What would they think? Remember the reaction Eagles/Patriots fans got during the Super Bowl?
Quote from: Debbie Thompson on March 12, 2012, 01:45:51 PM
Noone, like I told you at CPAC, I want to kayak or canoe with you too. Send me a PM. Let's set something up in the next few weeks.
Debbie, I can't wait. We'll Make It Happen. It will be fun. We'll do Hogans Creek. River Cleanup Celebration this weekend. So it will be cleaner.
What an Epoch opportunity to share with you an opportunity to reclaim access to our St. Johns River our American Heritage River a Federal Initiative.
I can't wait to hear all the exciting things that are going on in Springfield.
When we are on the water we will be able to tell everyone because of legislation.....
We are Downtown and why you aren't.
Quote from: Anti redneck on March 14, 2012, 12:44:39 AM
Quote from: thelakelander on March 14, 2012, 12:35:03 AM
If entertaining a guest, make sure to dine at a waterfront restaurant on a weekend evening. The atmosphere is lively enough that you won't easily notice the negatives.
Ok, but what if it is just visitors without anyone to show them around, but staying at the Hyatt? What would they think? Remember the reaction Eagles/Patriots fans got during the Super Bowl?
Yes. But that reaction had more to do with Jacksonville being a smaller city hosting the Super Bowl in general than the Landing itself. With that said, I know the Landing has its problems. In fact, most of the old Rouse festival marketplaces do.
I think the City blew it for Super Bowl, but then we didn't really have a lot to work with downtown, either. I worked downtown when the city hosted the Super Bowl. I worked a block from The Landing, and you would not even have known the crowds were there. The city set up one corridor of tents from the stadium to The Landing, and they were full of expensive junk and food vendors. Temporary stores sprang up to sell overpriced t-shirts and hats. Everyone who came was pretty much funnelled along the river, unless they went to one of the temporary titty bars. Nothing was made available to them outside that line of tents. I looked for, but did not find, information about other things to do. Maybe I wasn't looking in the right place, but I don't know that a casual visitor would not have found info available along that venue.
Working downtown, I thought the Super Bowl would be so exciting. That venue depressed me instead.
On another note I noticed yesterday build out has started for the 7-11 at the corner of Forsyth and Julia.
Quote from: Anti redneck on March 14, 2012, 12:44:39 AM
Quote from: thelakelander on March 14, 2012, 12:35:03 AM
If entertaining a guest, make sure to dine at a waterfront restaurant on a weekend evening. The atmosphere is lively enough that you won't easily notice the negatives.
Ok, but what if it is just visitors without anyone to show them around, but staying at the Hyatt? What would they think?
Tons of them do it every year....and you know what...many of them say things like "what a beautiful river and skyline" "why aren't there more people walking around" and "don't Jax. residents see the jewel they have here".
I was in charge of a conference a few years back that was at the Hyatt for 700 urban planners from around the state....many shared these thoughts.
I live DT and I go to Chicago Pizza when I want a sports bar. The outdoor bar at Koja is a great place to watch the sunset. Fionn McCool's is great. The Landing has absolutely improved since Sleiman took it over. I can't really blame him for not sinking more money in it without owning the land underneath it.
Or having the parking that was promised when it was built. :-)
Quote from: Debbie Thompson on March 14, 2012, 12:40:05 PM
Or having the parking that was promised when it was built. :-)
That is definitely something I would keep on the city about. Granted, they're a bunch of liars and will never put in any parking.
Quote from: Anti redneck on March 14, 2012, 01:47:24 PM
Quote from: Debbie Thompson on March 14, 2012, 12:40:05 PM
Or having the parking that was promised when it was built. :-)
That is definitely something I would keep on the city about. Granted, they're a bunch of liars and will never put in any parking.
Not really. The city nearly settled the deal last year in a way that would have been to Sleiman's favor. It was killed when Sleiman pushed through a bill that would have bilked the city out of substantially more than what the city's obligation was.
In addition, the city set aside money from the Laura St facade grants for the Landing, and Sleiman has put together an impressive plan for the improvements. However it won't be done without the parking issue being resolved, and that's on Sleiman this round.
I did not know that. Somehow I missed that, and I thought I was up to speed. I knew it was almost settled last year. Didn't know Sleiman was the one who messed it up. What was he thinking? Now I have to go back and read what I missed. :-)
^The city's actual obligation to the Landing at this point is about $3.5 million toward a parking garage, upon its completion, plus a parking validation program. However, they were about to settle a deal that would have given Sleiman $3.5 million and a validation program without having to build a garage. In the end, Sleiman pushed a bill that would have given him another $1.9 million toward short term parking subsidies. This little addition is what caused Peyton to veto the deal.
I'm not anti-Sleiman. But the city doesn't deserve all the blame in this situation. This round, the issue was Sleiman trying to get much more out of the deal than the actual obligation.
Good luck on moving forward for residential occupation and recreation on DT. There are some excellent establishments DT for now.
The dominance of First Baptist Church, several indignant service facilities, centralized location for our local government, and easily accessible natural resources for pleasure are all great features in their own right.
For me personally, the excitement is in Riverside. The most walkable, bike-able neighborhood with young establishments opening weekly, with the most affordability in Florida for young adults means...
Riverside and J(action)ville is happening!
I think your mention of 'the dominance of FIRST BAPTIST CHURCH' might actually be right on target. Is there another institution in downtown that regularly pumps 10,000 people into the core 2 or 3 times a week, year round? Consider that First Baptist and a host of other churches in the core virtually guarantee 'population'. This population in true southern tradition leaves the church looking for restaurants, recreation and retail.
If MJ, our resident priest and FBC friends could organize a business - DT 'roundtable,' we might be the catalyst for some amazing change. What if the ENTIRE church community in the core announced Sunday, Wednesday, and other days as visit downtown days. What if the ENTIRE food, and entertainment businesses planned for and invited the crowds in? Rather then seeing these churches as obstacles, better to embrace them and have them embrace downtown.
I think MJ could set this up.
Quote from: Ocklawaha on March 15, 2012, 10:57:13 PM
I think your mention of 'the dominance of FIRST BAPTIST CHURCH' might actually be right on target. Is there another institution in downtown that regularly pumps 10,000 people into the core 2 or 3 times a week, year round? Consider that First Baptist and a host of other churches in the core virtually guarantee 'population'. This population in true southern tradition leaves the church looking for restaurants, recreation and retail.
If MJ, our resident priest and FBC friends could organize a business - DT 'roundtable,' we might be the catalyst for some amazing change. What if the ENTIRE church community in the core announced Sunday, Wednesday, and other days as visit downtown days. What if the ENTIRE food, and entertainment businesses planned for and invited the crowds in? Rather then seeing these churches as obstacles, better to embrace them and have them embrace downtown.
I think MJ could set this up.
I have my opinions on the First Baptist, but I already debated that. So I won't go into it.
that would be a good move Ock. FBC is now integrated into ArtWalk, so I dont see something like being too hard to pull off.
If there were such a 'roundtable', then there should be mention of all that dead space on Laura St, owned by FBC. Ennis mentioned way back that they could open up that cafeteria to the outside. Those lifeless walls along Laura need to go; it counteracts all the renovations a few blocks up. People in this town effing LOVE Golden Corral. Were they to turn that cafeteria into something like that, I'm sure they'd get that churchgoer business, and casual business as well.
With these recent posts Downtown is not fading. Maybe its not going in the direction of most here who consider a commerical DT essential for a metropolitan area, but J(action)ville is as vibrant a metropolitan area as any. Many of us here are participating in the recent extraordinary transition of Jax by patronizing new 21st century businesses, art forums, entertainment venues, which are scattered throughout the city, and I do mean the city of Jacksonville. Including Downtown.
We here in Jacksonville are doing great and we are going even further. And im not leading as a cheerleader.
Quote from: jerry cornwell on March 16, 2012, 11:46:44 AM
With these recent posts Downtown is not fading. Maybe its not going in the direction of most here who consider a commerical DT essential for a metropolitan area, but J(action)ville is as vibrant a metropolitan area as any. Many of us here are participating in the recent extraordinary transition of Jax by patronizing new 21st century businesses, art forums, entertainment venues, which are scattered throughout the city, and I do mean the city of Jacksonville. Including Downtown.
We here in Jacksonville are doing great and we are going even further. And im not leading as a cheerleader.
Oh really! How so?
Besides the remarkable comments from Mr. Khan that say essentially the same thing, the Everbank move, Laura Trio movement and gathering steam for the new convention center, the Smart Cities award speaks volumes to what outsiders see in our back yard. Jacksonville being on that same page as Medellin, virtually shouts 'JACKSONVILLE' to the world.
...The only downside of having Medellin get the same award is 'EVERYONE' in Colombia 'KNOWS' the Skyway is all my fault! LOL!
Quote from: Anti redneck on March 16, 2012, 01:02:43 PM
Quote from: jerry cornwell on March 16, 2012, 11:46:44 AM
With these recent posts Downtown is not fading. Maybe its not going in the direction of most here who consider a commerical DT essential for a metropolitan area, but J(action)ville is as vibrant a metropolitan area as any. Many of us here are participating in the recent extraordinary transition of Jax by patronizing new 21st century businesses, art forums, entertainment venues, which are scattered throughout the city, and I do mean the city of Jacksonville. Including Downtown.
We here in Jacksonville are doing great and we are going even further. And im not leading as a cheerleader.
Oh really! How so?
These are all solid facts. Some people will have problems with these facts, which I said in my post. But for a large number, the city has never been looking better.
Quote from: Anti redneck on March 16, 2012, 03:46:53 AM
Quote from: Ocklawaha on March 15, 2012, 10:57:13 PM
I think your mention of 'the dominance of FIRST BAPTIST CHURCH' might actually be right on target. Is there another institution in downtown that regularly pumps 10,000 people into the core 2 or 3 times a week, year round? Consider that First Baptist and a host of other churches in the core virtually guarantee 'population'. This population in true southern tradition leaves the church looking for restaurants, recreation and retail.
If MJ, our resident priest and FBC friends could organize a business - DT 'roundtable,' we might be the catalyst for some amazing change. What if the ENTIRE church community in the core announced Sunday, Wednesday, and other days as visit downtown days. What if the ENTIRE food, and entertainment businesses planned for and invited the crowds in? Rather then seeing these churches as obstacles, better to embrace them and have them embrace downtown.
I think MJ could set this up.
I have my opinions on the First Baptist, but I already debated that. So I won't go into it.
Though I haven't been a party to all of the debate, I would guess it's the 'narrow minded exclusionary stereotyping' of anyone that doesn't believe the way they do that is your major problem?
Quote from: jerry cornwell on March 16, 2012, 04:27:11 PM
Quote from: Anti redneck on March 16, 2012, 01:02:43 PM
Quote from: jerry cornwell on March 16, 2012, 11:46:44 AM
With these recent posts Downtown is not fading. Maybe its not going in the direction of most here who consider a commerical DT essential for a metropolitan area, but J(action)ville is as vibrant a metropolitan area as any. Many of us here are participating in the recent extraordinary transition of Jax by patronizing new 21st century businesses, art forums, entertainment venues, which are scattered throughout the city, and I do mean the city of Jacksonville. Including Downtown.
We here in Jacksonville are doing great and we are going even further. And im not leading as a cheerleader.
Oh really! How so?
These are all solid facts. Some people will have problems with these facts, which I said in my post. But for a large number, the city has never been looking better.
They've been saying about 15 years ago that "Jacksonville will be as big as Atlanta," that "Jacksonville would become the New York of the South". They were saying that "Jacksonville hasn't been discovered ", to "watch how big this city gets once we host the Super Bowl". That was the talk from back around 1997-99. I'm still waiting. The Super Bowl brought in so many negative responses, I didn't know whether to be ashamed or whether to laugh at all the things that I listed above. Jacksonville cannot become a metro area with the same small-town, good ole boy thinking that has plagued this city for years. In fact, I think Jacksonville got worse after the Super Bowl. Furthermore I heard football fans and other tourists say "we will never come back here". I think Shad Khan is going to find out the hard way of why no one ever comes here. Yes, he has the right idea, but the politics and attitudes of this city may stop him from "becoming Jacksonville's no. 1 salesman". For crying out loud, we get excited when we get a Hamburger Mary's or any other restaurant of that nature. Yet, we shiver at the thought of bringing in anything big like a theme park or something (and NO, this statement is NOT in reference to Mooneyhan). I'm just saying, I don't see enough big thinking here. We have a lot more to change than just downtown if Jacksonville is going to become this "big major city". I'll tell you why else it's not a major city: because major cities actually contribute to the U.S. Major cities have some sort of significance to them. How does Jacksonville contribute to America? What's the significance of Jacksonville? Don't give me the Jaguars or the military. That doesn't count. We need to start thinking a little bit bigger. That's when other people will take us seriously. That's when Jacksonville is recognized around the world.
Quote from: Ocklawaha on March 16, 2012, 08:28:13 PM
Quote from: Anti redneck on March 16, 2012, 03:46:53 AM
Quote from: Ocklawaha on March 15, 2012, 10:57:13 PM
I think your mention of 'the dominance of FIRST BAPTIST CHURCH' might actually be right on target. Is there another institution in downtown that regularly pumps 10,000 people into the core 2 or 3 times a week, year round? Consider that First Baptist and a host of other churches in the core virtually guarantee 'population'. This population in true southern tradition leaves the church looking for restaurants, recreation and retail.
If MJ, our resident priest and FBC friends could organize a business - DT 'roundtable,' we might be the catalyst for some amazing change. What if the ENTIRE church community in the core announced Sunday, Wednesday, and other days as visit downtown days. What if the ENTIRE food, and entertainment businesses planned for and invited the crowds in? Rather then seeing these churches as obstacles, better to embrace them and have them embrace downtown.
I think MJ could set this up.
I have my opinions on the First Baptist, but I already debated that. So I won't go into it.
Though I haven't been a party to all of the debate, I would guess it's the 'narrow minded exclusionary stereotyping' of anyone that doesn't believe the way they do that is your major problem?
No, I don't stereotype.
Huh? Anti-redneck doesn't stereotype? He of the anti-FBC, antii-Christian rants? :-)
The military doesn't count towards contributing to America? Gee, poor San Diago, Norfolk and Jacksonville. If only we didn't have those darn military bases, we could be great. LOL Don't discount the military as an economic engine. Why do you think Norfolk is fighting tooth and nail to keep every single carrier, and not let the Navy disburse the fleet at all, even one, to Jacksonville?
Quote from: Debbie Thompson on March 16, 2012, 10:18:02 PM
Huh? Anti-redneck doesn't stereotype? He of the anti-FBC, antii-Christian rants? :-)
The military doesn't count towards contributing to America? Gee, poor San Diago, Norfolk and Jacksonville. If only we didn't have those darn military bases, we could be great. LOL Don't discount the military as an economic engine. Why do you think Norfolk is fighting tooth and nail to keep every single carrier, and not let the Navy disburse the fleet at all, even one, to Jacksonville?
Whoa! Don't try to turn this all on me, now! Not cool! I don't go attacking individuals in here. I'd appreciate if you didn't as well. Another thing, don't accuse me of being anti-Christian. I'm far from it. I do not hold grudges against any religions. However, "I have my opinions on the FBC," in other words, that particular church. Another thing, I did not mean that having military installations is a bad thing. I do not understand why that alone should define a city. I would greatly appreciate it, Debbie, if you did not try to tangle up my words and use them against me. I try to remain as non-offensive as I can be. I think you should, too. In fact, an apology would be great.
Quote from: Anti redneck on March 16, 2012, 10:06:13 PM
Quote from: jerry cornwell on March 16, 2012, 04:27:11 PM
Quote from: Anti redneck on March 16, 2012, 01:02:43 PM
Quote from: jerry cornwell on March 16, 2012, 11:46:44 AM
With these recent posts Downtown is not fading. Maybe its not going in the direction of most here who consider a commerical DT essential for a metropolitan area, but J(action)ville is as vibrant a metropolitan area as any. Many of us here are participating in the recent extraordinary transition of Jax by patronizing new 21st century businesses, art forums, entertainment venues, which are scattered throughout the city, and I do mean the city of Jacksonville. Including Downtown.
We here in Jacksonville are doing great and we are going even further. And im not leading as a cheerleader.
Oh really! How so?
These are all solid facts. Some people will have problems with these facts, which I said in my post. But for a large number, the city has never been looking better.
They've been saying about 15 years ago that "Jacksonville will be as big as Atlanta," that "Jacksonville would become the New York of the South". They were saying that "Jacksonville hasn't been discovered ", to "watch how big this city gets once we host the Super Bowl". That was the talk from back around 1997-99. I'm still waiting. The Super Bowl brought in so many negative responses, I didn't know whether to be ashamed or whether to laugh at all the things that I listed above. Jacksonville cannot become a metro area with the same small-town, good ole boy thinking that has plagued this city for years. In fact, I think Jacksonville got worse after the Super Bowl. Furthermore I heard football fans and other tourists say "we will never come back here". I think Shad Khan is going to find out the hard way of why no one ever comes here. Yes, he has the right idea, but the politics and attitudes of this city may stop him from "becoming Jacksonville's no. 1 salesman". For crying out loud, we get excited when we get a Hamburger Mary's or any other restaurant of that nature. Yet, we shiver at the thought of bringing in anything big like a theme park or something (and NO, this statement is NOT in reference to Mooneyhan). I'm just saying, I don't see enough big thinking here. We have a lot more to change than just downtown if Jacksonville is going to become this "big major city". I'll tell you why else it's not a major city: because major cities actually contribute to the U.S. Major cities have some sort of significance to them. How does Jacksonville contribute to America? What's the significance of Jacksonville? Don't give me the Jaguars or the military. That doesn't count. We need to start thinking a little bit bigger. That's when other people will take us seriously. That's when Jacksonville is recognized around the world.
I see your point. You ask a very poignant question, "Whats the significance of Jacksonville?" Is it to be the NYC of the South? I dont think so. I will offer that a city of the 21st century is different than the 20th, which, i believe, was the highest achievement of the "city". New York itself with a population of over 10 million is, is effect, a huge center of poor with a small number of very, very wealthy. Los Angeles, which has no true geographical center (like Jacksonville) has approximately the same number, WAY too many people for such an outstanding natural area. To live there is actually a risk to your health. And its a city of one industry, film and television.
For myself, and i understand this question is very relative, our significance is an artistic, cultural, community with these amenities to offer to the members of the community. Also natural resources, which we have in abundance and, i know that i take for granted. By excluding the Jaguars and the military, you are taking away from an appeal to the rest of the world to say, "Hey, we are Jacksonville!". Is that what you are looking for in terms of Jacksonville? Thats fine, but I do know from bringing foreigners to Jacksonville how they have all loved the city. Our own dissatisfaction is with a lack of my aforementioned traits, which is in the process of turning around as we speak. And the corruption, here directed at the downtown itself. Which, i feel, is being dealt with by moving culture to other areas of Jacksonville, naturally the urban neighborhoods.
Quote from: Anti redneck on March 16, 2012, 10:06:13 PM
Quote from: jerry cornwell on March 16, 2012, 04:27:11 PM
Quote from: Anti redneck on March 16, 2012, 01:02:43 PM
Quote from: jerry cornwell on March 16, 2012, 11:46:44 AM
With these recent posts Downtown is not fading. Maybe its not going in the direction of most here who consider a commerical DT essential for a metropolitan area, but J(action)ville is as vibrant a metropolitan area as any. Many of us here are participating in the recent extraordinary transition of Jax by patronizing new 21st century businesses, art forums, entertainment venues, which are scattered throughout the city, and I do mean the city of Jacksonville. Including Downtown.
We here in Jacksonville are doing great and we are going even further. And im not leading as a cheerleader.
Oh really! How so?
These are all solid facts. Some people will have problems with these facts, which I said in my post. But for a large number, the city has never been looking better.
They've been saying about 15 years ago that "Jacksonville will be as big as Atlanta," that "Jacksonville would become the New York of the South". They were saying that "Jacksonville hasn't been discovered ", to "watch how big this city gets once we host the Super Bowl". That was the talk from back around 1997-99. I'm still waiting. The Super Bowl brought in so many negative responses, I didn't know whether to be ashamed or whether to laugh at all the things that I listed above. Jacksonville cannot become a metro area with the same small-town, good ole boy thinking that has plagued this city for years. In fact, I think Jacksonville got worse after the Super Bowl. Furthermore I heard football fans and other tourists say "we will never come back here". I think Shad Khan is going to find out the hard way of why no one ever comes here. Yes, he has the right idea, but the politics and attitudes of this city may stop him from "becoming Jacksonville's no. 1 salesman". For crying out loud, we get excited when we get a Hamburger Mary's or any other restaurant of that nature. Yet, we shiver at the thought of bringing in anything big like a theme park or something (and NO, this statement is NOT in reference to Mooneyhan). I'm just saying, I don't see enough big thinking here. We have a lot more to change than just downtown if Jacksonville is going to become this "big major city". I'll tell you why else it's not a major city: because major cities actually contribute to the U.S. Major cities have some sort of significance to them. How does Jacksonville contribute to America? What's the significance of Jacksonville? Don't give me the Jaguars or the military. That doesn't count. We need to start thinking a little bit bigger. That's when other people will take us seriously. That's when Jacksonville is recognized around the world.
None of these things have much to do with Jacksonville having a vibrant downtown. All you need is complementing uses locating together within a compact pedestrian scale setting for the environment most want to see. There are thousands of cities across the country that have achieved these things without becoming the "Bold City of the South", the next Atlanta, or spending hundreds of millions on some gimmick like an aquarium. It isn't a money thing. It's more about fostering opportunities to allow the area to grow naturally and organically.
It sure is a money problem. What is needed is someone who will spend the money to build "it" so that "they" will come. The big trick is to figure out what "it" is.
Quote from: WmNussbaum on March 17, 2012, 10:19:22 AM
It sure is a money problem. What is needed is someone who will spend the money to build "it" so that "they" will come. The big trick is to figure out what "it" is.
Less restrictions and hoops to jump through will make it cost less for a hundred someones to build a hundred "its" and they will come.
WmNussbaum, billions have been spent over the last two decades and look at where it has gotten the area. All the money in the world doesn't matter if you can't implement things right at the pedestrian scale level. If anything, we need to apply common sense to these situations that we continue to overcomplicate, which has resulted in tons of money and opportunities being thrown away. I'm one of the biggest downtown advocates out there but I can't even argue with opponents when good money has been burned on foolish redevelopment strategies.
If I offended you Anti-Redneck, then I certainly apologize. The smiley was meant to convey I was laughing, because in my opinion, I do feel you have been stereo-typing certain kinds of people here. And were I more easily offended, I could have been myself. But I try to realize this is a place to put your opinions out there. I try to remember everyone has opinions, and that I should be open to listening to them withour taking offence at them. However, if you feel you don't stereo-type people, and I have offended you, then I'm sorry.
For thos who think downtown is fading and that nobody goes to the Landing, I recommend stopping by today.
I certainly cannot argue about the money that has been wasted - or at least spent unwisely. My pet peeve is those stupid, stupid cobblestones in the Laura Street intersections that accelerate the deterioration of my car and do nothing to attract businesses.
I suspect our age-old buddy system is also responsible. One of the buddies sold the City on buying the train station for a convention center - about as far west as you can go and still be in an area of downtown. Then the City spent money with the Shipyards [not a] Project about as far east as you can go and still be in an area of downtown. I've said it before: For a city no more populous than ours is, our "downtown" is too spread out.
The City did well in moving City Hall to the St. James Building and putting a grand library in the same location. Now, however, we can't figure out how to make that area attractive because the Plaza they face is a home for the unwashed, the village idiots, panhandlers, and other unsavory types. Kudos to Ron Chamblin and Jerry Moran for keeping their businesses there.
But I digress. Lakelander, nothing will happen in the old core city or in any other part of downtown until somebody/ies step up to the plate and spend money on something - another fine restaurant or two that stay open at night (and good lighting to make it safer to be there then), a store that attracts shoppers like the Apple store in Towncenter or even something like a Whole Foods or Fresh Market grocery. I fear that nothing like that will happen until there is a good increase in folks who live in the area. And more folks moving there may be dependent on more amenities like shopping, lighting, etc. It's the chicken/egg problem all over again.
I hope to be at the DVI meeting Monday and see what the folks in the know have to say about this. Hopefully something encouraging.
Several things are happening right now. Riverside is booming, San Marco continues to grow and now new proposals are making their way up Main Street in Springfield. In downtown, don't underestimate the relocation of Everbank to the AT&T Tower or the 600 apartments proposed along Riverside Avenue. I fully expect to see several storefronts filled between the courthouse and Everbank by the end of the year. 7-Eleven (corner of Forsyth & Julia) is just the beginning.
I think we tend to overlook several places like Chomp Chomp, 1904, and Sweet Lady Blue opening up, when something like a Whole Foods or Fresh Market is viewed as the only key to success. However, those small local places are what make an urban environment special and unique to the rest of the city.
QuoteThe City did well in moving City Hall to the St. James Building and putting a grand library in the same location. Now, however, we can't figure out how to make that area attractive because the Plaza they face is a home for the unwashed, the village idiots, panhandlers, and other unsavory types. Kudos to Ron Chamblin and Jerry Moran for keeping their businesses there.
This is a situation where money has not solved the problem partially due to us ignoring the importance of pedestrian scale connectivity with major investments. A huge cause for Hemming's problems is the conversion of former retail spaces lining the park into office space. While the buildings are put in use 9-5 on weekdays, they effectively serve as dead zones for the park. Long term, the city should consider adding retail back into the ground level of a few of these buildings to help generate activity in the area. With Alvin Brown continuing to reduce the amount of people working for the city, the city should have office space it can live without.
Quote from: Debbie Thompson on March 17, 2012, 02:48:06 PM
If I offended you Anti-Redneck, then I certainly apologize. The smiley was meant to convey I was laughing, because in my opinion, I do feel you have been stereo-typing certain kinds of people here. And were I more easily offended, I could have been myself. But I try to realize this is a place to put your opinions out there. I try to remember everyone has opinions, and that I should be open to listening to them withour taking offence at them. However, if you feel you don't stereo-type people, and I have offended you, then I'm sorry.
It's ok. It's sometimes hard to catch humor on the internet. I guess I should word my responses more closely as well. But in the end, no hard feelings.