JSO says they it is responding to a shooting at Episcopal School of Jacksonville.
JFRD confirms that there are two victims on the campus.
JSO is not saying if any students have been injured.
http://www.news4jax.com/news/2-dead-in-shooting-at-Episcopal-High-School/-/475880/9234044/-/w57d6h/-/index.html (http://www.news4jax.com/news/2-dead-in-shooting-at-Episcopal-High-School/-/475880/9234044/-/w57d6h/-/index.html)
A teacher shot the principal and then herself. This is uncomfirmed coming from a student who is texting his mother at my work.
First Coast news has the information streaming with live video, if interested. Now they are saying a custodian had been shot. Who knows.
They do still say no students were harmed, only adults.
My brother is there now. He says the word is it's definitely a murder suicide and that no students were involved; it sounds like the victim was an employee.
News 4 is saying that it was an employee fired yesterday. The perp brought an AK-47 to the school according to the news. For your non military types the AK-47 is a Russian designed military assault rifle with a staggering rate of fire, and the ability to fire even if it's bumped, bounced and plunged into a tank of mud. This rife EASILY out guns ANYTHING the JSO would likely bring on the property in the back of a squad car.
Looks like a case of revenge, against the administrator or co-worker that led to the firing. The scary part is the weapon of choice says this could have been MUCH, MUCH, worse.
Don't want to get into gun chat but that's not really correct. Most likely not an ak-47, there are a gazillion rifles that look like them now but are functionally different. They're all semi-auto and even at full auto, it's rate of fire isn't very high. If I'm not mistaken, lots of JSO guys are carrying AR rifles now.
Sad that it happened but at least it wasn't another kid randomly targeting others.
Quote from: Ocklawaha on March 06, 2012, 02:23:37 PM
News 4 is saying that it was an employee fired yesterday. The perp brought an AK-47 to the school according to the news. For your non military types the AK-47 is a Russian designed military assault rifle with a staggering rate of fire, and the ability to fire even if it's bumped, bounced and plunged into a tank of mud. This rife EASILY out guns ANYTHING the JSO would likely bring on the property in the back of a squad car.
Looks like a case of revenge, against the administrator or co-worker that led to the firing. The scary part is the weapon of choice says this could have been MUCH, MUCH, worse.
I highly doubt it was a true AK-47, much much more likely it was a semi automatic clone. And yes Police officers do carry AR-15s or other comparable rifles in the trunk. With any firearm it could have been much much worse. Horrible situation for all involved.
My wife's friend heard from her kids, it was a head mistress who fired the Spanish teacher yesterday.
Lol posted the same thing at the same time ;)
Perhaps having been on the receiving end of the AK-47's 600 rounds per minute has tainted my viewpoint? In any case, I agree that it is likely something else. Kind of funny that to the news media all assault rifles are AK-47's (which speaks volumes to it's reputation) and all gun owners live in "compounds."
With any such rifle on the campus, we're just very blessed that this wasn't a larger massacre.
(http://26.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_lxu1du37zO1r7ekmco1_400.jpg)
Ock - Surely an AK-47 RIFLE is not something that looks like it belongs on a school campus, it must have happened bang-bang, literally, so quickly because surely people would have seen this as an issue. IT WAS AN ASSAULT RIFLE, HE CARRIED IT BACK ON THE CAMPUS CONCEALED IN A GUITAR CASE, then TOOK HIS OWN LIFE.
News people are stating that there is really no security entrance to the school. At Bolles, there is a security gate, so if someone had been fired, surely they would alert the staff at the gate to know to NOT let someone on campus if they were fired or not to come back to the property. I have a bad feeling that security will rise at all local schools as a result.
Now Episcopal has stated they will take spring break now, so classes will not resume until March 19.
I have heard from 4 sources that it was Dale Reagan, the headmaster. They are saying that the shooter was a spanish teacher who was fired yesterday. The headmaster's office is separate from the rest of the campus. Most of the administrators offices are along a road at the back of the school. They are about 400 yards from the classrooms.
I went to Episcopal from 1998-2005
My brother also says that the victim was Dale Reagan.
First Coast News is reporting the same, that Dale D. Regan was killed.
http://www.esj.org/about_us/head_of_school_message/index.aspx (http://www.esj.org/about_us/head_of_school_message/index.aspx)
Very sad indeed. Was an avid mountain biker, was a rider in the MS 150, really a good person, well connected. Very sad day in Jax.
This is terrible.
I was at Episcopal from 1994-2000. Dale Regan was an administrator at that time. She took over as head master shortly after I graduated. She was there when I and all three of my siblings attended.
A very sad day.
Terrible news
Horrible news!
Channel 4 interviewed a student who said it was the male Spanish teacher at the school.
Wow, if I were the coach, I'd buy a few lottery tickets. Lucky fellow, very fortunate.
Wow, that's heavy.
The rumors are flying all over. FTU live blog said the word is that the murderer was a Spanish teacher fired this morning; he came back with the rifle hidden in a guitar case. JSO hasn't officially confirmed yet because they want to notify next of kin.
Awful, awful story.
There is only one male Spanish teacher listed in the directory, Shane Schumerth. Though they could have potentially removed the guy after he was fired or after the incident.
"Shane Schumerth will be joining the Spanish Department. A graduate of Purdue University with a B.A. in Spanish, Schumerth has taught Spanish to students of all ages, including an immersion program to eighth graders. He has instructed Spanish-speaking international students in English, tutored Spanish and math, and was a grading assistant at Purdue for Spanish courses."
beat me to it Dr. K
^The teacher was Shane Schumerth.
My brother had him last year and found him to be a very awkward and ineffective teacher, which I guess explains why he was fired.
Way to use the internet, Stephen!
Google shows he has a Facebook account, blocked here in my office. Can't find a picture.....
Anyway - I've never quite understood the need to go kill someone because they pissed me off, or even irrevocably altered my life in some way.
I will begrudge them, and probably hate them and never forgive them (depending on the severity of the thing that said party did to me), but I just can't wrap my head around the need to end someone else's life. Especially if it was over something like being fired.
Seriously.
That teacher had to have not been quite right, to have gone and done this. And he was around kids day in and day out!
If I were a parent, I think I'd want to have some kind of assurances from the school (since it's private, and all) that the faculty and teachers under their employ are, y'know, fit to be in those roles
QuoteThat teacher had to have not been quite right, to have gone and done this. And he was around kids day in and day out!
If I were a parent, I think I'd want to have some kind of assurances from the school (since it's private, and all) that the faculty and teachers under their employ are, y'know, fit to be in those roles
When I was at Bolles from 82-87 we had some crazy stuff happen on the campus and I saw friends die in car wrecks and boating accidents, even saw the Space Shuttle disaster from the grounds, but I never saw or heard of anyone who decided to take the life of another on the campus, in front of students and faculty/friends. I did not know the people involved, but since it happened so close and I know others on the campus, it all hits so very close to home.
Very sad. Just no words that can make it better.
I guess we can score another one for the NRA. I hope the local chapter will send flowers to the funeral, even if it sets back its lobbying budget a little.
QuoteThat teacher had to have not been quite right, to have gone and done this. And he was around kids day in and day out!
Saying that guy was not quite right is like saying Hitler wasn't very nice.
I went to Bolles for 14 years (my whole education prior to college, from EK to 12). Had many Episcopal friends...knew a few teachers. While there was much immature shit talking between schools, I always felt a close bond to Episcopal. Again, very sad stuff.
This is very sad, yet so scary.
I always fear that this would occur at my school from the acts of violence common there.
Surprised it hasn't even happened yet.. and I hope it continues to be that way.
My prayers are to Episcopal, nobody deserved this.
Quote from: Victor711 on March 06, 2012, 09:21:58 PM
This is very sad, yet so scary.
I always fear that this would occur at my school from the acts of violence common there.
Surprised it hasn't even happened yet.. and I hope it continues to be that way.
My prayers are to Episcopal, nobody deserved this.
+1
Quote from: WmNussbaum on March 06, 2012, 06:48:15 PM
I guess we can score another one for the NRA. I hope the local chapter will send flowers to the funeral, even if it sets back its lobbying budget a little.
:-X
Time & Place
.
Quote from: WmNussbaum on March 06, 2012, 06:48:15 PM
I guess we can score another one for the NRA. I hope the local chapter will send flowers to the funeral, even if it sets back its lobbying budget a little.
QuoteThat teacher had to have not been quite right, to have gone and done this. And he was around kids day in and day out!
Saying that guy was not quite right is like saying Hitler wasn't very nice.
Why should the NRA feel a sense of guilt over the actions of a crazy person? Last July we read about a New York teenage girl that was beaten to death with a hammer by her stepfather, should hammer manufacturers apologize? What about tool and craftsman magazines and organizations? Don't they promote ownership and the safe use of hammers?
Sorry y'all, but people that blame the gun are in denial. We could take the worlds most dangerous hair trigger gun, load it and lay it on the ground, and if it were possible, come back in 20,000 years and it would still be there... UNFIRED!
The act of murder is horrible, inexcusable, and tragic, attaching random blame is uncalled for.
^^^+1
Quote from: Ocklawaha on March 06, 2012, 10:52:51 PM
Quote from: WmNussbaum on March 06, 2012, 06:48:15 PM
I guess we can score another one for the NRA. I hope the local chapter will send flowers to the funeral, even if it sets back its lobbying budget a little.
QuoteThat teacher had to have not been quite right, to have gone and done this. And he was around kids day in and day out!
Saying that guy was not quite right is like saying Hitler wasn't very nice.
Why should the NRA feel a sense of guilt over the actions of a crazy person? Last July we read about a New York teenage girl that was beaten to death with a hammer by her stepfather, should hammer manufacturers apologize? What about tool and craftsman magazines and organizations? Don't they promote ownership and the safe use of hammers?
Sorry y'all, but people that blame the gun are in denial. We could take the worlds most dangerous hair trigger gun, load it and lay it on the ground, and if it were possible, come back in 20,000 years and it would still be there... UNFIRED!
The act of murder is horrible, inexcusable, and tragic, attaching random blame is uncalled for.
Not that it matters or we will ever know the "between the lines" of this horrible event... How could such a 'crazy' person not have given any signs of this. He was apparently employed there for around 2 years, or at least I think I recall that being stated on one of the news reports.. he had been a teacher for several years.
I see both positions on the gun issue. A gun is only as safe as the person's judgement who uses it... The gun cannot think or act , itself.
Such a random , senseless , horrible event would have me , were I a parent , questioning the integrity of Teachers, and I know that is an offhanded -sounding remark, but this event goes to show that you never know. Apparently (?) there was some connection with this person being terminated and his action that followed.. in other words, perhaps the Head Master ( I presume she terminated the Teacher) must have known something was not right. maybe not.. I don't know.
It just makes no sense at all.
The guy was a member of a group called "Concerned Taxpayers of Duval County". They once sued John Peyton and City Council, but I didn't bother to read why.
http://jaxtaxpayers.org/pdfs/complaintdocs/complaint.pdf
His Facebook wall postings are pretty bizarre and all over the place.
https://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=100001445903045&sk=wall
It seems like a couple of other murderers recently have had Facebook pages displaying their rambling and rantings. Maybe school administrators should monitor their employees Facebook pages for signs of possible wackiness. Otherwise, how would you know if you had an unbalanced teacher on staff?
This happened right around the corner from my house. The news crews were still out there at 11 PM last night and 6:30 this morning.
Quote from: Bativac on March 07, 2012, 07:24:45 AM
It seems like a couple of other murderers recently have had Facebook pages displaying their rambling and rantings. Maybe school administrators should monitor their employees Facebook pages for signs of possible wackiness. Otherwise, how would you know if you had an unbalanced teacher on staff?
I guess they could monitor their email as well, plus regular mail, phone calls, mic all of their conversations and of course have big brother cameras everywhere they go that ought to do it.
Quote from: Ocklawaha on March 06, 2012, 10:52:51 PM
Quote from: WmNussbaum on March 06, 2012, 06:48:15 PM
I guess we can score another one for the NRA. I hope the local chapter will send flowers to the funeral, even if it sets back its lobbying budget a little.
QuoteThat teacher had to have not been quite right, to have gone and done this. And he was around kids day in and day out!
Saying that guy was not quite right is like saying Hitler wasn't very nice.
Why should the NRA feel a sense of guilt over the actions of a crazy person? Last July we read about a New York teenage girl that was beaten to death with a hammer by her stepfather, should hammer manufacturers apologize? What about tool and craftsman magazines and organizations? Don't they promote ownership and the safe use of hammers?
Sorry y'all, but people that blame the gun are in denial. We could take the worlds most dangerous hair trigger gun, load it and lay it on the ground, and if it were possible, come back in 20,000 years and it would still be there... UNFIRED!
The act of murder is horrible, inexcusable, and tragic, attaching random blame is uncalled for.
+2
While I will try to stay out of the NRA debate, can anyone, honestly, make a strong argument for WHY anybody should own an AK-47? I think we can all agree that the purpose for an AK-47 is to kill humans...so why should they be available to the public? Granted, this guy would have killed her with a pistol if he didn't have an AK, but the point remains the same. Why do people need high powered assault rifles?
Quote from: ben says on March 07, 2012, 10:05:23 AM
While I will try to stay out of the NRA debate, can anyone, honestly, make a strong argument for WHY anybody should own an AK-47? I think we can all agree that the purpose for an AK-47 is to kill humans...so why should they be available to the public? Granted, this guy would have killed her with a pistol if he didn't have an AK, but the point remains the same. Why do people need high powered assault rifles?
Because they're fun to shoot. Why do people buy cars that can go 120 mph when the speed limit is 70 mph. Because they're fun to drive.
Quote from: ben says on March 07, 2012, 10:05:23 AM
While I will try to stay out of the NRA debate, can anyone, honestly, make a strong argument for WHY anybody should own an AK-47? I think we can all agree that the purpose for an AK-47 is to kill humans...so why should they be available to the public? Granted, this guy would have killed her with a pistol if he didn't have an AK, but the point remains the same. Why do people need high powered assault rifles?
See that's half the problem, these things are so hyped up people don't even know what they really are. What is so "high powered" about a 7.62X39 round? Is it more powerful than a .22? Yes. Is it more powerful than most hunting rifles? No.
Check out this website, his formula accounting for velocity, weight, section seems pretty good for the "power" of a certain round. The higher the number the more powerful it is according to this formula. Find 7.62x39 on there, then compare that number to the rest, especially the 30-30 and .30-06 calibers that are very comming for hunting rifles.
http://www.chuckhawks.com/rifle_killing_power_list.htm
I also heard Ken Jefferson on channel 4 last night make the comment that the AK-47 is usually used by snipers. That one made me laugh.
Quote from: ben says on March 07, 2012, 10:05:23 AM
While I will try to stay out of the NRA debate, can anyone, honestly, make a strong argument for WHY anybody should own an AK-47? I think we can all agree that the purpose for an AK-47 is to kill humans...so why should they be available to the public? Granted, this guy would have killed her with a pistol if he didn't have an AK, but the point remains the same. Why do people need high powered assault rifles?
So when our government decides that it means more than the people, the people have weapons with which to fight back.
Also love when people throw around buzz words like "high powered assault rifles."
Too much of this thread has to do with guns, using guns, types of guns, types of bullets, and on. Start another thread to talk about ways to kill people and leave this one for folks to grieve and express support for the school and its students and teachers.
Interesting how a thread about an on-campus murder-suicide turns into a daisy chain of weaponry wonks.
(That's not an editiorial comment nor meant to imply any limitation on the constitutional rights
of anyone who possesses anything that could do me bodily harm.)
Quote from: Jumpinjack on March 07, 2012, 01:08:16 PM
Too much of this thread has to do with guns, using guns, types of guns, types of bullets, and on. Start another thread to talk about ways to kill people and leave this one for folks to grieve and express support for the school and its students and teachers.
+1
Agree with the above two comments.
Getting back to the thread, I find it interesting how the teacher was hired by the Duval County Public School system and then flagged as DO NOT REHIRE after he left the DCPS high and dry owing them $1000 worth of the bonus they paid him early (when will DCPS ever learn, oh wait I know the answer already).
Why was it that EHS hired someone with that info in their record? If the TV news people could get their hands on it, same day, surely EHS could have done the same. His reports were very unflattering, per news reports, so he was average at best. Seems odd that EHS would have hired him with all those professional issues.
QuoteIt seems like a couple of other murderers recently have had Facebook pages displaying their rambling and rantings. Maybe school administrators should monitor their employees Facebook pages for signs of possible wackiness. Otherwise, how would you know if you had an unbalanced teacher on staff?
+1,
It would appear that more background checking is needed for every business, since we have had the Great Recession recently, you never know who still has a house, has liens against them or judgement, it all weighs people down and they thing bring that to work and you never know what causes someone to SNAP.
Quote from: mtraininjax on March 07, 2012, 01:38:02 PM
QuoteIt seems like a couple of other murderers recently have had Facebook pages displaying their rambling and rantings. Maybe school administrators should monitor their employees Facebook pages for signs of possible wackiness. Otherwise, how would you know if you had an unbalanced teacher on staff?
+1,
It would appear that more background checking is needed for every business, since we have had the Great Recession recently, you never know who still has a house, has liens against them or judgement, it all weighs people down and they thing bring that to work and you never know what causes someone to SNAP.
wow. +1
Quote from: mtraininjax on March 07, 2012, 01:38:02 PM
QuoteIt seems like a couple of other murderers recently have had Facebook pages displaying their rambling and rantings. Maybe school administrators should monitor their employees Facebook pages for signs of possible wackiness. Otherwise, how would you know if you had an unbalanced teacher on staff?
+1,
It would appear that more background checking is needed for every business, since we have had the Great Recession recently, you never know who still has a house, has liens against them or judgement, it all weighs people down and they thing bring that to work and you never know what causes someone to SNAP.
Just for information purposes only, right.
I mean, it wouldn't cause you to SNAP any more or less after finding out that you were terminated from your non-finance industry based job because you were 'too great a risk' because of a low FICO.
Quote from: mtraininjax on March 07, 2012, 01:35:33 PM
Getting back to the thread, I find it interesting how the teacher was hired by the Duval County Public School system and then flagged as DO NOT REHIRE after he left the DCPS high and dry owing them $1000 worth of the bonus they paid him early (when will DCPS ever learn, oh wait I know the answer already).
Why was it that EHS hired someone with that info in their record? If the TV news people could get their hands on it, same day, surely EHS could have done the same. His reports were very unflattering, per news reports, so he was average at best. Seems odd that EHS would have hired him with all those professional issues.
That's apparently not accurate. Schumerth received a bonus after signing the three-year contract with DCPS; he broke the contract a year early to take the job at Episcopal. This is what led to the "do not rehire" status. He subsequently paid back the $1000 bonus for breaking contract and the "do not rehire" status was removed.
http://jacksonville.com/news/crime/2012-03-06/story/suspected-episcopal-school-shooter-kept-himself-acquaintances-say
My understanding from talking to my parents (my dad was formerly on the Episcopal board) Episcopal hired him because they just really needed a Spanish teacher on pretty short notice. They had two vacancies open up when one teacher passed away and another left for another job.
My brother had Schumerth last year and says he was a very awkward and poor teacher, to the point that he's gotten a tutor to catch back up in Spanish this year. I'm surprised they didn't get rid of him at the end of the year. As for this year, usually they would have just not renewed his contract at the end of the year, but evidently he was bad enough that they fired him in the middle of the week, in the middle of the semester.
QuoteI mean, it wouldn't cause you to SNAP any more or less after finding out that you were terminated from your non-finance industry based job.
Losing your job is losing your job, right? No income to pay for your accustomed lifestyle, beans and rice instead of steak and potatoes, Raman noodles instead of Orsay. This guy already had a strike against him, who knows, his girlfriend could have dumped him, no one knows, yet, what caused him to SNAP, but getting fired is not a pleasant experience and it does cause a LOT of uncertainty.
You probably would not be terminated for a low FICO score, but the low score is the result of maybe a bankruptcy and or other issues that may raise red flags for concern. Check out a facebook page of someone, say they are spouting off against the constitution and bad mouthing the USA, and your company has the US Navy as a customer, would you think twice about keeping a loose cannon around?
http://www.actionnewsjax.com/content/topstories/story/New-information-on-teacher-turned-suspected-killer/2g78arFTxku7KEwIq7_I-Q.cspx (http://www.actionnewsjax.com/content/topstories/story/New-information-on-teacher-turned-suspected-killer/2g78arFTxku7KEwIq7_I-Q.cspx)
Apparently the teacher was not really a focused teacher, giving kids A+ grades and discussing his political views.
Action News 30/47 did not state that the money was paid back before going to Episcopal. Not saying it wasn't paid back, just that I cannot find another site to confirm it.
I had teachers at Bolles who were not there 1 semester and were fired for poor performance and teaching. Perhaps better at interviewing than teaching. It does happen.
Quote from: mtraininjax on March 07, 2012, 03:22:04 PM
Losing your job is losing your job, right?
Not if you lose your job
because of personal hardships.
Isn't that what you meant by:
Quote from: mtraininjax on March 07, 2012, 01:38:02 PM
It would appear that more background checking is needed for every business, since we have had the Great Recession recently, you never know who still has a house, has liens against them or judgement, it all weighs people down and they thing bring that to work and you never know what causes someone to SNAP.
Letting go of people before they snap because of personal issues that may or may not affect their work.
Quote from: mtraininjax on March 07, 2012, 03:29:27 PM
http://www.actionnewsjax.com/content/topstories/story/New-information-on-teacher-turned-suspected-killer/2g78arFTxku7KEwIq7_I-Q.cspx (http://www.actionnewsjax.com/content/topstories/story/New-information-on-teacher-turned-suspected-killer/2g78arFTxku7KEwIq7_I-Q.cspx)
Apparently the teacher was not really a focused teacher, giving kids A+ grades and discussing his political views.
Action News 30/47 did not state that the money was paid back before going to Episcopal. Not saying it wasn't paid back, just that I cannot find another site to confirm it.
I had teachers at Bolles who were not there 1 semester and were fired for poor performance and teaching. Perhaps better at interviewing than teaching. It does happen.
I gave the link in my previous post:
Quote
Five months later he moved on to Episcopal, repaying the county $1,000 for breaking his three-year contract with the district.
http://jacksonville.com/news/crime/2012-03-06/story/suspected-episcopal-school-shooter-kept-himself-acquaintances-say
Everything I've heard about him confirms that he was a very ineffective teacher. He was apparently fairly strange and was into some political causes (nothing that would necessarily be a red flag) and would use his Spanish classes to go off on a tangent about his beliefs. My brother used to say "we don't learn Spanish" in his Spanish class, as the teacher get distracted talking about politics. Even as of Monday students were joking that he had recently graded a test on a 30-point curve - big no-no at that school. I don't think anyone was shocked he was fired, but it was unusual that it happened in the middle of the week, mid-semester. More details will probably emerge about his firing and the sequence of events.
It's just so sad that someone that young could go so off the rails, leading to a terrible tragedy. I know I can't stop thinking about it.
The situation still has me pretty shaken up too. I don't have kids at the school, but do have one who swims for the club team, so we are at the campus 4 times a week. I have gotten to know the coaching staff very well through the years and feel part of the Episcopal family. A part of me is trying to understand how this could happen, and another part hopes that I will never understand what would motivate someone to do something so evil.
Looks like depression and suicide were things he was thinking about much earlier. This is from his facebook wall.
Shane J Schumerth
I always knew Jacksonville ranks in something. Before I came down here Forbes ranked it as the 5th best place to start out. I still want an apology from them for this. They should have considered quality of life. Depression: Jacksonville coming in at number 2. Suicide coming in at number 9 and divorce coming in at number 7. This is what all that abusive navy ethics dogma comes too...which is because i am married I can treat you like sh*t. Navy ethics is no ethics. Period.
Share · November 5, 2011 at 7:34pm ·
Michael likes this.
Shane J Schumerth Where is the love? The not so abusive kind....
November 5, 2011 at 7:34pm
Shane J Schumerth As to the Navy because old whats is name wrote a book in 1906 isn't to forget the wright brothers invented the airplane in 1913. Outdated: bad dogma.
November 5, 2011 at 7:35pm
QuoteLetting go of people before they snap because of personal issues that may or may not affect their work.
Don't bring your personal baggage to work, right? Separate what you do at home from what you are paid to do. Odds are people around you at work can tell if you have that elephant (from home) with you in the room at work.
With this guy, the students stated that they took his class because his class was NOT about Spanish, but about political topics. So he was undoubtedly fired because he did not teach, but rather used his position as a pulpit.
Firstcoastnews just reported that he had been speaking with neighbors about the United States turning more and more to socialism.
Quote from: dougskiles on March 07, 2012, 04:48:03 PM
The situation still has me pretty shaken up too. A part of me is trying to understand how this could happen, and another part hopes that I will never understand what would motivate someone to do something so evil.
Today we've spoken to people who work at Episcopal or knew Dale Regan and they feel the same as you. Tonight I watched as the tv reporters interviewed the kids and they sound so lost and pathetic. It is a terrible thing to have your youthful life at school, so predictable so ordinary, so utterly destroyed so quickly. It would be a good thing if we as adults could help them understand and cope with the change but one thing adults know is there are no easy answers.
The problem with these tragedies is that we end up in the same reactive stance that we took when the last such senseless slaying took place. We all have those moments when we are agonized over how we could have let (insert event here -- e.g. GMAC shootings in Baymeadows, the murder of a student at the University of North Florida, the sucker punching of a Ridgeview High School student). We only have the power to retrofit our defenses against what has already happened.
I am further troubled by the apparent lack of safeguards to protect against disgruntled ex-employees from retaliating against their former employers. For example, I have read in the media that students were making comments about the newly-fired teacher coming back to the school. If it already hit the gossip mill around the school, what is to say this teacher also knew that he was the talk of the day? This kind of firing would definitely have been better done at the end of the work day. I do not blame the late headmistress because she was carrying out a policy that was approved by someone higher. I believe wholeheartedly that timing is everything in this case. I am assuming that this teacher obviously had to do the walk of shame in front of former colleagues and students. Whether or not he knew that this termination was coming or not also raises a few more questions from me.
In the end, we are trying to make sense of this murder-suicide. May we all seek some peace and some answers.
Quote from: Jumpinjack on March 07, 2012, 01:08:16 PM
Start another thread to talk about ways to kill people and leave this one for folks to grieve and express support for the school and its students and teachers.
Yeah, that 'mortality' thread would really take off with alotta replies. It's a controversial hot button topic concerning the weaponry in this awful incident; IMO that talk WASN'T hijacking this thread, because it was within the sub-catergory of the thread. Of course this was a terrible tragedy at Episcopal. Was a lil' gun talk within the confines of the thread stopping anyone from giving their well wishes and prayers? No. Was it way off base to queston/criticise/comment on the weapon (AK-47) involving this incident? No. But of course someone had to obligatorily get on the high horse. Why don't we let the moderators etc decide on what talk is inappropriate or not? Look at the thread title 'Shots fired at Episcopal School of Jax'; Now if it would've read something concerning on looking back at the life of Dale Regan, then I would agree that gun talk would be hijacking the thread.
Such a terrible tragedy, but there are many in the U. S. similar to this each year. I suspect that more than a few individuals, especially those who have been around a few decades, who have been abused by various and powerful or controlling authorities, who have endured relationship problems, job problems, survival problems etc…. have had thoughts of the ultimate revenge pass through their minds. The fact is that a very small percentage of highly stressed and desperate individuals do engage that ultimate act of killing either someone, or themselves.
Thank goodness that most individuals holding those thoughts, do so only fleetingly, allowing other thoughts to enter the mind, thoughts about moving on, about recovery, about options or alternatives, about the probability of sure punishment, or of death, and even thoughts of forgiveness, or at least understanding why the abuser or the authority entity acted against their interests.
It seems that individuals who “snapâ€, do so sometimes as a consequence or their perception that they are being treated with gross unfairness by some entity having temporary power over them. An employer. A legal system. A judge. An attorney. A spouse or former spouse. A city, state, or federal agency or employee. A police officer. A bank or other lending institutions. We see each year, individuals fighting back in the only way they feel that they can, and this as an act of final desperation, as they see no other route, no method to recover, or to survive.
Most of us have at least a small cushion of money, of assets, of friends, of options. But a small minority endure living on the edge of survival, existing in a world where they are vulnerable to ruin or collapse if they are exposed to more than two or three catastrophes or disasters at a time.
If one of those disasters occurs as a consequence of a natural event, such as a fire burning down their uninsured house, there is no immediate cause or target for revenge or desperate reaction. If however the disaster, the third one especially, such as losing a job, or losing a custody fight for children, or losing in a love triangle, offers a target individual who can be perceived to be the cause of the disaster, then that is a scenario that can produce the kind of tragedy recently occurring at Episcopal.
I do not mean to qualify the actions of the fired teacher. However, this kind of thing, this use of temporary authority, by employers and others who can yield ultimate and powerful decisions upon others, should be used with care, with great caution, as one never knows how close to the edge some might be, whether an individual has recently endured two other disasters already, and if the third disaster we are about to place upon him or her, will push them over the edge, and perhaps to the act of murder and suicide.
Anger and desperation can overcome and consume. Most of us have attributes within us giving the ability and inclination to recover from gross abuse of power against us by any entities. We can get up and walk again. Some, by whatever circumstances, cannot, and they can become desperate, much like an animal trapped in a corner.
Those are good comments, Ron. From my view, this person was having reality problems for some time before the event. People and his students noticed it but not everyone is trained to see potential trouble.
I too wondered about the timing of his dismissal - in the middle of the school year, early in the day. Something caused this hasty action by the administration. It's more common to wait until the end of the school year and not renew the contract. And to escort him from the campus, another signal of threats of violence.