QuoteShahid Khan considering Laura Street Trio
Jacksonville Business Journal by Ashley Gurbal Kritzer and Marisa Carbone Finotti
Date: Tuesday, March 6, 2012, 11:36am EST
Related:Banking & Financial Services, Commercial Real Estate, Economic Snapshot Enlarge Image Shahid Khan is considering the purchase of the Barnett Bank Building and the Laura Street Trio in Downtown Jacksonville.
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Jacksonville Jaguars owner Shahid Khan is considering the purchase of the Barnett Bank Building and the Laura Street Trio in Downtown Jacksonville, a JaxUSA Partnership executive said.
John Haley, senior vice president of business development for JaxUSA, Jax Chamber’s economic development arm, said Khan “has people doing diligence on the Laura Street Trio.â€
“And he also has people doing diligence on companies, too,†Haley said. “He’s looking at investing in companies that will generate new employment and new capital investment in Jacksonville.â€
The four historic buildings â€" the Barnett Bank Building and the trio, which consists of the Florida Life Building, the Bisbee Building and the Marble Bank Building â€" and an adjacent vacant parcel are listed for sale on LoopNet LoopNet Latest from The Business Journals Follow this company , an online marketplace for commercial real estate, for $3.95 million.
The buildings, at the corner of Laura and Forsyth streets, are considered a linchpin in the redevelopment of Downtown.
A source close to the situation confirmed Khan has consultants considering the purchase.
The source, who asked not to be named, said Khan is not interested in redeveloping the property.
“He’s really doing this as a way to secure the title instead of letting the bank sell it to an unwanted suitor,†the source said.
Jacksonville developer Steve Atkins has said he was under contract on the purchase of the buildings since proposing a $70 million redevelopment plan in May 2010.
Atkins declined comment.
Chicago-based JDI Realty Inc. JDI Realty Inc. Latest from The Business Journals Follow this company foreclosed on the properties in 2008 after real estate developer Cameron Kuhn defaulted on the loans.
Bobby Knight, a broker associate with Addison Commercial Realty Inc., listed the buildings for JDI for about two and a half years, but when the agreement expired, JDI hired CBRE Group Inc. CBRE Group Inc. Latest from The Business Journals Follow this company in Jacksonville to market the properties.
“If you can’t do it in two years, they move it to somebody else,†Knight said. “I wasn’t surprised, but I was sorry to see it go, because we’d keep thinking we were very close to having a closing.â€
Knight said he’d been told there was a “major hotel†chain interested in the Barnett Bank when he had the listing.
He also said he’d heard that a Toronto group has a letter of intent to purchase the buildings.
Michael Harrell, one of the listing brokers with CBRE, declined comment.
Marisa Carbone Finotti is a contributing writer to the Jacksonville Business Journal
Interesting. Maybe he's making a plan for where to stay in Jacksonville after he sells his yacht.
All I can say is.. I TOLD EVERYONE SO. He's going to do some good things for this city. I'd rather he own them than some bank.
Quote from: duvaldude08 on March 06, 2012, 12:07:51 PM
All I can say is.. I TOLD EVERYONE SO
You didn't tell me ;)
Quote from: Timkin on March 06, 2012, 12:08:39 PM
Quote from: duvaldude08 on March 06, 2012, 12:07:51 PM
All I can say is.. I TOLD EVERYONE SO
You didn't tell me ;)
LOL when everyone was parnoid that he was gonna move the team, etc etc. I stated that he would actually be a blessing to this city more than anyone would ever know. He's a business man and I expect coming from him in the future.
If the Trio finally ends up rehabbed , I would be elated.
I am a little confused by the statement " The source, who asked not to be named, said Khan is not interested in redeveloping the property."
Quote from: Timkin on March 06, 2012, 12:14:08 PM
If the Trio finally ends up rehabbed , I would be elated.
I am a little confused by the statement " The source, who asked not to be named, said Khan is not interested in redeveloping the property."
Even if he isnt interested, him just buying the property is a good first step. Im not to sure how the real estate world works, but Im sure it would be a easier to get a project off the ground with him owning. I would think that someone who is interested in redeveloping the property would buy it from him or something like that. Hopefully Lake or Simms chimes in. Im not good at real estate lol
Wow - he's really rolling up his sleeves.
Quote from: blizz01 on March 06, 2012, 12:22:37 PM
Wow - he's really rolling up his sleeves.
Anyone that does not support what this guy is trying to do needs to move asap. As a city, we really need to get behind him and the team. He's doing his part already. THANK YOU WAYNE AND DELORIS.
Quote from: duvaldude08 on March 06, 2012, 12:24:44 PM
Quote from: blizz01 on March 06, 2012, 12:22:37 PM
Wow - he's really rolling up his sleeves.
Anyone that does not support what this guy is trying to do needs to move asap. As a city, we really need to get behind him and the team. He's doing his part already. THANK YOU WAYNE AND DELORIS.
I have a great reserve respect for Mr. Khan, but I think you are "jumping the gun" too early on the entire Khan thing, DuvalDude. We aren't even into at least 6 months with Mr. Khan yet. It is better to judge a person AFTER the time allocated and any actions would speak for himself.
-Josh
QuoteA source close to the situation confirmed Khan has consultants considering the purchase.
The source, who asked not to be named, said Khan is not interested in redeveloping the property.
So why even bother? The bumper business is not as exciting as it used to be? :o
Ashamed it takes an outsider who just moved here to realize the value of those buildings. With all the millionaires around this city, you would think they could step up, put thier money where their mouths are and do something to buy, rehab and make these buildings alive again. The non-group could have easily done something of this scale.
Quote from: fsujax on March 06, 2012, 01:43:56 PM
...With all the millionaires AROUND this city...
I guess we need a millionaire (or billionaire in this case) who wants to be IN the city.
^^nice.
Khan's taking over downtown, one building at a time. Go Khan!! ;D
His boat downtown is sort of like the Mayflower.... ;)
Quote from: blizz01 on March 06, 2012, 03:47:36 PM
His boat downtown is sort of like the Mayflower.... ;)
More like Rene Laudonierre's flagship, the
Isabeau of Honfleur ;)
Quote from: wsansewjs on March 06, 2012, 12:44:16 PM
Quote from: duvaldude08 on March 06, 2012, 12:24:44 PM
Quote from: blizz01 on March 06, 2012, 12:22:37 PM
Wow - he's really rolling up his sleeves.
Anyone that does not support what this guy is trying to do needs to move asap. As a city, we really need to get behind him and the team. He's doing his part already. THANK YOU WAYNE AND DELORIS.
I have a great reserve respect for Mr. Khan, but I think you are "jumping the gun" too early on the entire Khan thing, DuvalDude. We aren't even into at least 6 months with Mr. Khan yet. It is better to judge a person AFTER the time allocated and any actions would speak for himself.
-Josh
Not jumping the gun Josh. This man has a passion for Jacksonville and about making it a better place. And he is definately proving himself. Just what he has done with the franchise alone (hiring and reorganization) and the moves he is making with the city are actions that are speaking for themselves. If you know anything about Khan, he invests HEAVILY in any community he is a part of, just ask Illionios. (I mean come Khan has a school at UOI )He is a good guy, with good intentions and a good heart. Its about time we had someone with money who actucally cares about the city and making it a better place.
I wish Khan would've got in Jacksonville sooner.
He's not the Jag Owner we deserve, but the Jag owner we need.
Maybe he wants to increase the quality of the city via investment in order to increase population/attractiveness of Jax, in order that he might sell out some NFL football games properly. Make Jax a greater city, make the Jags a $2bil franchise, make Khan $$.
Maybe he'll even invest in UNF.
Can we stop substituting Khan for can? It's really not that clever.
Quote from: RockStar on March 06, 2012, 04:59:59 PM
Can we stop substituting Khan for can? It's really not that clever.
Do you prefer my original title for the article: "What Shahid we Expect for the Laura Street Trio"?
Quote from: PeeJayEss on March 06, 2012, 04:51:20 PM
He's not the Jag Owner we deserve, but the Jag owner we need.
Maybe he wants to increase the quality of the city via investment in order to increase population/attractiveness of Jax, in order that he might sell out some NFL football games properly. Make Jax a greater city, make the Jags a $2bil franchise, make Khan $$.
Maybe he'll even invest in UNF.
excatly! Its two fold. Make Jacksonville a great city and people will want to live here. The market grows and that is more people for the Jags to draw from. His method is actually quite simple actually.
Quote from: Non-RedNeck Westsider on March 06, 2012, 05:06:14 PM
Quote from: RockStar on March 06, 2012, 04:59:59 PM
Can we stop substituting Khan for can? It's really not that clever.
Do you prefer my original title for the article: "What Shahid we Expect for the Laura Street Trio"?
Haha
Quote from: Non-RedNeck Westsider on March 06, 2012, 05:06:14 PM
Quote from: RockStar on March 06, 2012, 04:59:59 PM
Can we stop substituting Khan for can? It's really not that clever.
Do you prefer my original title for the article: "What Shahid we Expect for the Laura Street Trio"?
Clever :D
Quote from: duvaldude08 on March 06, 2012, 12:07:51 PM
All I can say is.. I TOLD EVERYONE SO. He's going to do some good things for this city. I'd rather he own them than some bank.
Its going to take out of town money to make things better in Jacksonville, hopefully the GOB network is not powerful enough to run him off, their presence seems to be weaker than it once was. Very interesting.
Cooly.... I'm getting a headache looking at that Icon ;)
Quote from: fsujax on March 06, 2012, 01:43:56 PM
Ashamed it takes an outsider who just moved here to realize the value of those buildings. With all the millionaires around this city, you would think they could step up, put thier money where their mouths are and do something to buy, rehab and make these buildings alive again. The non-group could have easily done something of this scale.
I totally agree. Kahn seems more like a Miami type of personality than a Jacksonville one. I often wonder if Jacksonville is "sexy" enough for someone like Kahn to hang around for decades. He doesnt seem like a country boy at all. Time will tell.
Quote from: Timkin on March 06, 2012, 05:40:35 PM
Cooly.... I'm getting a headache looking at that Icon ;)
Hogan Lives!!
Quote from: Coolyfett on March 06, 2012, 05:44:11 PM
Quote from: Timkin on March 06, 2012, 05:40:35 PM
Cooly.... I'm getting a headache looking at that Icon ;)
Hogan Lives!!
Oh... I thought it was an Icon of the Devil . my bad :P
Quote from: Coolyfett on March 06, 2012, 05:42:54 PM
Quote from: fsujax on March 06, 2012, 01:43:56 PM
Ashamed it takes an outsider who just moved here to realize the value of those buildings. With all the millionaires around this city, you would think they could step up, put thier money where their mouths are and do something to buy, rehab and make these buildings alive again. The non-group could have easily done something of this scale.
I totally agree. Kahn seems more like a Miami type of personality than a Jacksonville one. I often wonder if Jacksonville is "sexy" enough for someone like Kahn to hang around for decades. He doesnt seem like a country boy at all. Time will tell.
Acutally he is very laid back. Have you seen a picture of his home? Its big but very low key and country like. I mean seriously, he is from urbania. Urbania is not exactly a miami type city. It has a population 41,250. Not exactly big city life. I think he'll be fine here ;D
Quote from: PeeJayEss on March 06, 2012, 04:51:20 PM
He's not the Jag Owner we deserve, but the Jag owner we need.
Maybe he wants to increase the quality of the city via investment in order to increase population/attractiveness of Jax, in order that he might sell out some NFL football games properly. Make Jax a greater city, make the Jags a $2bil franchise, make Khan $$.
Maybe he'll even invest in UNF.
While he is no batman, I think this is a good move.
It will be much easier for the trio to change hands to a developer if Khan is the owner than if a bank owns it. He may already be in talks with Steve Atkins. Maybe Khan will be able to finance part of the development or at least bring in some lenders to help expedite this process.
Quote from: Captain Zissou on March 06, 2012, 06:00:21 PM
Maybe Khan will be able to finance part of the development or at least bring in some lenders to help expedite this process.
+1
My thoughts/hopes exactly.
Quote from: Coolyfett on March 06, 2012, 05:44:11 PM
Quote from: Timkin on March 06, 2012, 05:40:35 PM
Cooly.... I'm getting a headache looking at that Icon ;)
Hogan Lives!!
I like the icon. I think it's funny. I can't read what it says, though. What does it say?
Quote from: Captain Zissou on March 06, 2012, 06:00:21 PM
While he is no batman, I think this is a good move.
Nope, you can call him 'V'.
Quote
It will be much easier for the trio to change hands to a developer if Khan is the owner than if a bank owns it. He may already be in talks with Steve Atkins. Maybe Khan will be able to finance part of the development or at least bring in some lenders to help expedite this process.
I think that's exactly what he's doing. Plus, $4M for 4 buildings in the heart of DT, it's quite the investment for him. While he may not have any plans for developing the site himself, I would think that he would definitely be a catalyst for any development that happens. The other thing that he is on record as saying is that he's now J'ville's biggest salesman. That he is going to use the Jags to bring more outside attention to our city. He's doing this because he's first and foremost a good businessman. I'm sure he had a plan before he purchased the Jags and I won't be surprised at all if there's quite a bit more in the works. Secondly, more for Jacksonville, more for Khan. If he can bring in the corporate influence from around the world, he will turn that into club seat and luxury box sales which in turn increase his profile and increase his brand which increase his profits. Though I don't think he purchased the Jags to turn a HUGE profit, he bought them as a fan of football and it will make him some money in the short term. The long term benefits will be his increased profile around the world and you can't put a figure on that.
Quote from: Coolyfett on March 06, 2012, 05:42:54 PM
Kahn seems more like a Miami type of personality than a Jacksonville one. I often wonder if Jacksonville is "sexy" enough for someone like Kahn to hang around for decades. He doesnt seem like a country boy at all. Time will tell.
Yup, Miami is definitely more suitable for him, because all of us simple folk in Jax are just a buncha bacca spittin', pick-up truck drivin', gun rack havin' hillbillies; Hell, we barely can count to twelve at times. Country boys and Jax definitely goes hand and hand. ::)
Quote from: I-10east on March 06, 2012, 09:49:04 PM
Quote from: Coolyfett on March 06, 2012, 05:42:54 PM
Kahn seems more like a Miami type of personality than a Jacksonville one. I often wonder if Jacksonville is "sexy" enough for someone like Kahn to hang around for decades. He doesnt seem like a country boy at all. Time will tell.
Yup, Miami is definitely more suitable for him, because all of us simple folk in Jax are a buncha bacca spittin', pick-up truck drivin', gun rack havin' hillbillies; Hell, we barely can count to twelve at times. Country boys and Jax definitely goes hand and hand. ::)
Well times have changed, so must the image. :D
lol, "Miami type"? The guy who, after making his millions, stays in the pleasant little college town where his Horatio Alger story came to life?
This is just more of the obnoxious inferiority complex that is Jacksonville's greatest curse.
Quote from: Tacachale on March 06, 2012, 10:24:31 PM
lol, "Miami type"? The guy who, after making his millions, stays in the pleasant little college town where his Horatio Alger story came to life?
This is just more of the obnoxious inferiority complex that is Jacksonville's greatest curse.
agreed. Khan is most humble billionaire you will ever met.
A good start would be pushing that stillborn Skyway into a true monorail system, with a terminal at Everbank Field, and stations at Randolph/East Side, Shipyards/Maxwell House, Hyatt/Newnan. Then jump start the light rail by "encouraging" immediate development of the Norwood/Gateway - Springfield - East Jacksonville - Beaver - AP Randolph @ Duval - Newnan - Independence - Water - RIVERSIDE SURFACE RAIL ROUTE. Imagine being the only stadium in the (world?) connected to the public by electric rail, monorail, (there is also a standard commuter rail potentialities in the former F&J "streetcar/light-rail' route), freeway, and waterway... Oh yeah, did we mention bus too? Mr. Khan, have some of your consultants contact the pro-Jacksonville team of consultants here at metrojacksonville.com , together we'll make this city sing a new song.
Quote from: Tacachale on March 06, 2012, 10:24:31 PM
lol, "Miami type"? The guy who, after making his millions, stays in the pleasant little college town where his Horatio Alger story came to life?
This is just more of the obnoxious inferiority complex that is Jacksonville's greatest curse.
^^ well put .
Quote from: Ocklawaha on March 06, 2012, 10:31:25 PM
A good start would be pushing that stillborn Skyway into a true monorail system, with a terminal at Everbank Field, and stations at Randolph/East Side, Shipyards/Maxwell House, Hyatt/Newnan. Then jump start the light rail by "encouraging" immediate development of the Norwood/Gateway - Springfield - East Jacksonville - Beaver - AP Randolph @ Duval - Newnan - Independence - Water - RIVERSIDE SURFACE RAIL ROUTE. Imagine being the only stadium in the (world?) connected to the public by electric rail, monorail, (there is also a standard commuter rail potentialities in the former F&J "streetcar/light-rail' route), freeway, and waterway... Oh yeah, did we mention bus too? Mr. Khan, have some of your consultants contact the pro-Jacksonville team of consultants here at metrojacksonville.com , together we'll make this city sing a new song.
Or maybe we need to contact him ;)
From the Jacksonville Business Journal
QuoteJacksonville Jaguars Shahid Khan has issued a statement on the Laura Street Trio in Downtown Jacksonville through his spokesman:
The trio consists of the Florida Life Building, the Bisbee Building and the Marble Bank Building as well as the Barnett Bank Building.
“I am not engaged in any effort to purchase the Barnett Bank Building and the Laura Street Trio. I’m not a developer. But as someone who is committed to Jacksonville, I am interested in the promise of these properties and to the success of the downtown revitalization efforts currently under way.
“To that end, I have offered lending assistance to a developer recommended by the Jacksonville Civic Council and the Jacksonville Chamber. If this developer’s bid is successful, then I will be proud to make a business loan contingent upon a substantial historic properties grant to the developer from the City of Jacksonville. If another developer is successful in a bid for the property, and intends to develop the properties in line with the city’s vision for downtown â€" including trying to preserve these historical buildings â€" I will wish that company all the best.
“In the end, I just want what’s best for the community. A revitalized downtown is important to our quality of life and our efforts to market Jacksonville and the Jaguars to the world.â€
We can expect absolutely nothing for the Trio. They are owned by a firm in Chicago - undoubtedly the folks who loaned Cameron Kuhn the money to buy them. It also owns the old Barnett Bank Building. The building facing Laura Street doesn't even have windows and has been exposed to the elements for years now. If the City is serious about doing something with them, it ought to begin imposing fines so it can eventually foreclose and take over. The longer they sit as they are, the worse the deterioration will be and the more costly to restore.
Even with the Courthouse moving to that area of town, I think anyone taking on the restoration of those buildings should get the Cojones of the Year award - unless there is some use to which they can be put other than as offices. What that might be totally escapes me.
It is my impression that there is a fairly high vacancy rate in much newer downtown buildings right now, so spending the big bucks it would take to restore the Trio would be a very risky venture. I predict that those buildings will be in the same posture for years to come. Maybe the bank building is in decent enough shape to attract a user who wants a smaller "signature" home, and is willing to pay for it, but the other two are too far gone to attract anything in this financial climate. The folks restoring the sizable building next to Farah & Farah (the Kress Building, I believe it once was) seem to have stopped, and they got a decent way into restoration - at least to the point of putting in nice windows. Did they run out of money or something else?
Now that I've shot off my mouth, I'll go take a look at MJ's photos of the Trio and see if I need to post a retraction.
Quote from: comncense on March 07, 2012, 04:43:53 PM
From the Jacksonville Business Journal
QuoteJacksonville Jaguars Shahid Khan has issued a statement on the Laura Street Trio in Downtown Jacksonville through his spokesman:
The trio consists of the Florida Life Building, the Bisbee Building and the Marble Bank Building as well as the Barnett Bank Building.
“I am not engaged in any effort to purchase the Barnett Bank Building and the Laura Street Trio. I’m not a developer. But as someone who is committed to Jacksonville, I am interested in the promise of these properties and to the success of the downtown revitalization efforts currently under way.
“To that end, I have offered lending assistance to a developer recommended by the Jacksonville Civic Council and the Jacksonville Chamber. If this developer’s bid is successful, then I will be proud to make a business loan contingent upon a substantial historic properties grant to the developer from the City of Jacksonville. If another developer is successful in a bid for the property, and intends to develop the properties in line with the city’s vision for downtown â€" including trying to preserve these historical buildings â€" I will wish that company all the best.
“In the end, I just want what’s best for the community. A revitalized downtown is important to our quality of life and our efforts to market Jacksonville and the Jaguars to the world.â€
Oh okay now this makes more sense. You know what, I actually seeing this happen quickly. The developer is pretty much guareented the financing from Khan contingent on getting the grant. That financing has been the issue all along. This will remove the biggest hurdle in this project. Unless the city does something wacky, it looks like the project may finally take off.
I doubt there would be any opposition to the Laura Trio being brought back. I certainly hope so, but I must say I will believe it when I see it.
So he is on board with assisting in the finance of a future for downtown. Seems to me like it's time to go arm and arm with Alvin Brown and lay the rail system at his feet... But then again, that would take the efforts of a Chamber of Commerce that understood the development potential ($14 to $1 ROI) that rail brings into a downtown.
It's sad that we have a highway building agency, struggling to explain why they should design and build every City Street, State Highway or Federal Road in the County, while playing at being a mass transit operator. Lacking nationally recognized expertise, they misled the city on a fools trend to build a monorail, which they claimed was the mass transit of the future, then built it in fits and starts, finally throwing up their hands, quitting, and never achieving a SINGLE GOAL of the recommended system. Claimed that light-rail was more expensive then elevated bus freeways, and sold the city on a second complete fantasy system, while doing untold damage to the credibility of the various modes they have snubbed or screwed up. To the point where we now have the uninformed leading foolish minions on an endless parade of fail, while cities all across the globe have proved the points made here on MJ time and time again. If Jacksonville wants to see rampant explosive expansion and growth downtown, we MUST get mass transit right.
Quote from: Ocklawaha on March 07, 2012, 05:55:55 PM
So he is on board with assisting in the finance of a future for downtown. Seems to me like it's time to go arm and arm with Alvin Brown and lay the rail system at his feet... But then again, that would take the efforts of a Chamber of Commerce that understood the development potential ($14 to $1 ROI) that rail brings into a downtown.
It's sad that we have a highway building agency, struggling to explain why they should design and build every City Street, State Highway or Federal Road in the County, while playing at being a mass transit operator. Lacking nationally recognized expertise, they misled the city on a fools trend to build a monorail, which they claimed was the mass transit of the future, then built it in fits and starts, finally throwing up their hands, quitting, and never achieving a SINGLE GOAL of the recommended system. Claimed that light-rail was more expensive then elevated bus freeways, and sold the city on a second complete fantasy system, while doing untold damage to the credibility of the various modes they have snubbed or screwed up. To the point where we now have the uninformed leading foolish minions on an endless parade of fail, while cities all across the globe have proved the points made here on MJ time and time again. If Jacksonville wants to see rampant explosive expansion and growth downtown, we MUST get mass transit right.
You know I see eye to eye with you about the transit. The transportation in this city makes me sick to my stomach. I work downtown. If we had better mass transportation, I would never drive to work.
Quote from: Timkin on March 07, 2012, 05:54:43 PM
I doubt there would be any opposition to the Laura Trio being brought back. I certainly hope so, but I must say I will believe it when I see it.
When someone is throwing money at you, it better not be opposition! ;D
What a magnificent attitude. We have truly lucked out with Khan. My cautious optimism regarding the trio has become much more optimistic.
Quote from: duvaldude08 on March 07, 2012, 06:00:16 PM
Quote from: Timkin on March 07, 2012, 05:54:43 PM
I doubt there would be any opposition to the Laura Trio being brought back. I certainly hope so, but I must say I will believe it when I see it.
When someone is throwing money at you, it better not be opposition! ;D
Agree Duval Dude. When I see money being thrown at the Laura Trio, I will be elated. I could not be happier that Mr. Khan is the new owner of the Jags. I hope this is a turn in a new direction for our City on so many levels.
Khan is big-picture awesome. Now go buy some Jags tix and return the support.
Unless i am mistaken you could buy the Laura St trio plus the Old Barnett Bank building, along with their huge upside, for less than what Mr Kahn is paying in one year's salary to his starting quarterback.
Sounds like a deal to me.
Quote from: ubben on March 07, 2012, 11:10:17 PM
Khan is big-picture awesome. Now go buy some Jags tix and return the support.
+1
Vote on what to do with the Laura Trio here: http://www.bizjournals.com/jacksonville/
This would be amazing for downtown. If these properties are restored the corner of Adams and Laura will no doubt be the epicenter of downtown redevelopment.
The Biz Journal's poll question should have begun, "If you could wave the magic wand . . . ."
News bulletin for the Biz Journal: There is no such thing as a magic wand!
I voted. I can't believe some actually voted to tear them down.
I just voted, and also couldn't believe people vored to tear them down, but at least it is a small percentage.
The Trio is historic. Definitely keep !!
Quote from: WmNussbaum on March 08, 2012, 07:29:34 AM
The Biz Journal's poll question should have begun, "If you could wave the magic wand . . . ."
News bulletin for the Biz Journal: There is no such thing as a magic wand!
No magic wand but there is a developer with a plan the viewers of this site like, someone willing to help with the financing who is a billionaire and owns the local NFL team and a motion before the city council to use historic preservation funds to help preserve these historic buildings.
No magic wand needed just a decision really. A vote by the readers of the Jacksonville Business Journal might prove relevant to council members trying to make that decision.
Quote from: fsujax on March 08, 2012, 08:13:38 AM
I voted. I can't believe some actually voted to tear them down.
^^ some folks have no regard for historic structures, regardless of their location.
Some also don't believe Jacksonville's structures have historic merit or architectural distinction just because they're not 200-300 years old and aren't in Colonial or Greek style. Shoot, the 1987 downtown plan more or less said this outright.
What i find sad is that there are homes in jax worth the same price......seems really cheap for such history
Quote from: Wacca Pilatka on March 08, 2012, 03:31:01 PM
Some also don't believe Jacksonville's structures have historic merit or architectural distinction just because they're not 200-300 years old and aren't in Colonial or Greek style. Shoot, the 1987 downtown plan more or less said this outright.
That's ridiculous. There is no where in the south that comes anywhere near to rivaling the prairie influences in this town. Some amazing buildings here, and sad that many more amazing structures have been razed. Germania club comes to mind.
Quote from: acme54321 on March 08, 2012, 05:43:47 PM
Quote from: Wacca Pilatka on March 08, 2012, 03:31:01 PM
Some also don't believe Jacksonville's structures have historic merit or architectural distinction just because they're not 200-300 years old and aren't in Colonial or Greek style. Shoot, the 1987 downtown plan more or less said this outright.
That's ridiculous. There is no where in the south that comes anywhere near to rivaling the prairie influences in this town. Some amazing buildings here, and sad that many more amazing structures have been razed. Germania club comes to mind.
That's what astonishes me - many in Jacksonville don't realize what treasures the Prairie structures are and how they distinguish the city from anyplace else in the region.
Maybe Mr. Khan will help Sleiman out with the landing next.
Quote from: Wacca Pilatka on March 08, 2012, 06:28:31 PM
Quote from: acme54321 on March 08, 2012, 05:43:47 PM
Quote from: Wacca Pilatka on March 08, 2012, 03:31:01 PM
Some also don't believe Jacksonville's structures have historic merit or architectural distinction just because they're not 200-300 years old and aren't in Colonial or Greek style. Shoot, the 1987 downtown plan more or less said this outright.
That's ridiculous. There is no where in the south that comes anywhere near to rivaling the prairie influences in this town. Some amazing buildings here, and sad that many more amazing structures have been razed. Germania club comes to mind.
That's what astonishes me - many in Jacksonville don't realize what treasures the Prairie structures are and how they distinguish the city from anyplace else in the region.
So true. The first time I really saw Jax (as opposed to riding through on I-95), I was star struck with the architecture and the housing stock. It blows the doors off South Florida and damn near anywhere else. Yet, everyone here that is a native is trying to make Jax look like Miami.
I had that same reaction, Vicupstate, and so have others I've brought to Jacksonville on visits.
Yep, same here too.
QuoteMaybe Mr. Khan will help Sleiman out with the landing next.
Is Tony Sleiman hurting for cash?
Quote from: Brian Siebenschuh on March 08, 2012, 11:05:55 PM
QuoteMaybe Mr. Khan will help Sleiman out with the landing next.
Is Tony Sleiman hurting for cash?
My guess is that he is. Not to get off track in the original post or anything, but the landing I think looks like an eyesore. It could use a little work.
Quote from: Anti redneck on March 09, 2012, 01:53:57 AM
Quote from: Brian Siebenschuh on March 08, 2012, 11:05:55 PM
QuoteMaybe Mr. Khan will help Sleiman out with the landing next.
Is Tony Sleiman hurting for cash?
My guess is that he is. Not to get off track in the original post or anything, but the landing I think looks like an eyesore. It could use a little work.
Or maybe Mr. Sleiman is just using what he can work with or maybe just out of ideas. I should probably start a new post.
Sleiman has a few suburban shopping centers in development, including one at the Atlantic & Kernan interchange. The Landing situation isn't simply about throwing money at an aging retail center. It's turned into a political minefield with the dedicated parking and city owning the land underneath the buildings issue.
Here's the T-U story on this...sounds like Khan is providing lending assistance so the ownership group (including Atkins) can acquire the buildings this month.
http://jacksonville.com/news/metro/2012-03-09/story/shahid-khan-offers-lending-assistance-group-interested-laura-street
Quote from: thelakelander on March 09, 2012, 06:25:58 AM
Sleiman has a few suburban shopping centers in development, including one at the Atlantic & Kernan interchange. The Landing situation isn't simply about throwing money at an aging retail center. It's turned into a political minefield with the dedicated parking and city owning the land underneath the buildings issue.
So we should persuade the city to sell the land to him?
Personally, I would have when he purchased it before the Super Bowl was hosted here. Now, I think its an ideal worth packaging into a larger plan to refurbish the center and better integrate it with the rest of downtown.
LOL...that's funny. But you're right!!!
Heights Unknown
Quote from: I-10east on March 06, 2012, 09:49:04 PM
Quote from: Coolyfett on March 06, 2012, 05:42:54 PM
Kahn seems more like a Miami type of personality than a Jacksonville one. I often wonder if Jacksonville is "sexy" enough for someone like Kahn to hang around for decades. He doesnt seem like a country boy at all. Time will tell.
Yup, Miami is definitely more suitable for him, because all of us simple folk in Jax are just a buncha bacca spittin', pick-up truck drivin', gun rack havin' hillbillies; Hell, we barely can count to twelve at times. Country boys and Jax definitely goes hand and hand. ::)
Quote from: CG7 on March 08, 2012, 08:26:03 AM
I just voted, and also couldn't believe people vored to tear them down, but at least it is a small percentage.
Tear them down and build them with what? If you (or they) tear them down, they'd better quickly have a plan in place to put something very viable and useful there, hopefully a 60 story skyscraper (which downtown economy cannot justify at present).
Heights Unknown
Quote from: heights unknown on March 20, 2012, 08:06:24 AM
Quote from: CG7 on March 08, 2012, 08:26:03 AM
I just voted, and also couldn't believe people vored to tear them down, but at least it is a small percentage.
Tear them down and build them with what? If you (or they) tear them down, they'd better quickly have a plan in place to put something very viable and useful there, hopefully a 60 story skyscraper (which downtown economy cannot justify at present).
Heights Unknown
I would think with the Trio presently gutted , that it would be much less expensive to refurbish them than to raze it all and start over.
I posted this story in another thread, but especially liked this quote on the heels of a $100 million dollar development "hypothetical" statement:
QuoteWymann Duggan, a shareholder from Roger Towers, PA in Jacksonville, asked Brown in front of the crowd if Khan were considering any other projects.
"I heard he's looking at other projects."
http://www.bizjournals.com/jacksonville/blog/2012/03/mayor-brown-doesnt-want-yates-y-to.html
I do hope Khan moves fast on the trio. I was walking by the other day and those buildings are looking ruff. I don't think they have much time left.
Quote from: jcjohnpaint on March 29, 2012, 02:16:34 PM
I do hope Khan moves fast on the trio. I was walking by the other day and those buildings are looking ruff. I don't think they have much time left.
I was out walking yesterday and took a look at this group of buildings. Whatever happened to that plan a couple years back to refurbish the buildings? Is that totally dead in the water? I remember a big deal being made of it at the time and like lots of other lofty plans for the Trio, it seems to have just disappeared.
Stephen and I had quite the debate over that proposal. I'd taken one look at it and said there was no way it was ever going to work out, I think he was a little frustrated with my lack of hope-for-the-best attitude, he didn't have anything to do with them, he'd just interviewed them about the project.
Those people were nuts, they were trying to use grant money combined with treating historic tax credits on an accrual basis (the fly in that ointment being that tax credits aren't what make checks clear the bank) to qualify for financing on the project. Which as we all know has been so easy to get post-2008. As I said back then, there was no way that thing would ever get off the ground. Basically, they were claiming they had the cash to finance the project, but it was really their accrual treatment of anticipated tax credits. Obviously it turned out the only way it could.
But Khan's a different story. Cash buyer, doesn't need to finance. May very well work out nicely with him. And whatever he decides to do (other than tear them down) will be better than a bunch of empty buildings, so no matter what it's a plus.
^Khan isn't looking to buy, he's looking to provide "lending assistance" to a developer - potentially the same guys from the 2010 proposal.
I loved the plan for the trio as a whole, but I'm beginning to think our best bet is the Barnett and a new apt building with parking deck, which was part of the original plan. I'm assuming the construction number inefficiencies and cost are coming from "the other side of the road"
Quote from: Tacachale on April 18, 2012, 08:11:35 AM
^Khan isn't looking to buy, he's looking to provide "lending assistance" to a developer - potentially the same guys from the 2010 proposal.
He'll wind up owning them anyway, if he finances that deal. Even beyond the finances, their business plan had other problems that were too obvious to miss. They were significantly understating their construction costs, and even if you move past that, then the hotel portion wouldn't last a year, there is no demand for that down there as it sits, and no reasonable prospect of there being any before one of that size would incur enough in operating losses to make the whole project uneconomic.
And you can't get enough residential units out of the Laura Trio to make the cost of their renovation plus the construction of a 4-story parking garage and the companion tower viable. Probably $50mm for what, a hundred units? 200? Price that out per unit, those will be impossible to move at cost, let alone leave any profit for the developer. Real estate market isn't exactly on fire these days. The condo market in particular sucks. The penthouse in the Park Lane just went for $300k and change.
Khan's self-made, I'm going to make a leap of faith and guess he's probably business-savvy. I doubt he'll fund that deal, it's got too many issues. My guess is is that he will wind up buying them, or control the entity that buys them, whichever way you want to slice and dice it. What he does with them, we'll have to wait and see.
Can't you sell Historic Tax Credits for cash? Obviously that would be less than the credits themselves, but still.
Chris.. If not renovated into apartments or lofts, what would you /everyone envision working in the Trio Space?
just curious.
At this time, instead of going for broke with the Laura Street Trio, I think a more reasonable approach would be focusing on a few smaller projects.
Ie, The (old) Library needs a fraction of the dollars and could be a big hub of activity. It's already in a semi established location too, in the midst of the Adams Street establishments.
I've been told the Mayor's office has blinders on for the Laura Street Trio though. Perhaps the Mayor sees it as his potential "signature" Downtown project.
Quote from: Timkin on April 18, 2012, 06:21:09 PM
Chris.. If not renovated into apartments or lofts, what would you /everyone envision working in the Trio Space?
just curious.
I'm not Chris, but.....
A fancy hotel and a nice fancy restaurant. Duh.
Quote from: Anti redneck on April 18, 2012, 08:14:27 PM
Quote from: Timkin on April 18, 2012, 06:21:09 PM
Chris.. If not renovated into apartments or lofts, what would you /everyone envision working in the Trio Space?
just curious.
I'm not Chris, but.....
A fancy hotel and a nice fancy restaurant. Duh.
Um.. okay.. Duh.
I assure you that the project is not dead in the water.
There is forward-moving progress occurring daily.
I can also assure you that the development plan is not a fiscal folly.
Quote from: Steve_Lovett on April 19, 2012, 12:00:00 AM
I assure you that the project is not dead in the water.
There is forward-moving progress occurring daily.
I can also assure you that the development plan is not a fiscal folly.
I can't help noticing that there are already two large upscale hotels within blocks of there barely making it, one of which is already taxpayer-subsidized. Maybe I lack fiscal sensibilities, but I'm having a bit of difficulty with the concept of demand being insufficient to support two, so the intelligent thing to do is to build a third? What term would you prefer I use for that?
Is the hotel still part of the project, or is it just down to the condo portion for the Laura trio now?
^Presumably it's still all part of one project, as that was the only way to get all the tax credits they were talking about before.
Also, the hotel is supposed to be one of those chic places with a heavy emphasis on its bars and nightlife. If that's the case, that will would be a big chunk of their revenue. And there's nothing like that in Jacksonville.
There are plenty of bars and clubs that don't have 18 stories of hotel on top of them to support. Those do well in travel hubs, which we aren't. I'm not sure that concept works in that location. Will people go look at it and have a drink at the bar? Yes. Will they stay there the 300-something days a year when there is no convention or football game in town? Doubtful. I guess there might be a few exceptions, but barring renovations or something, most people don't stay in hotels in the same city where they already live. And there is no travel traffic, that location is nowhere near the airport, train station, or anything else. It would be competing for the same convention and game-day business that is insufficient to support the existing hotels. If they want to open up a nightclub, then open up a nightclub. That might actually work out.
Maybe like the Bohemian in Savannah? I thought the Barnett plan had only a portion of the floors as hotel and the rest were condos/apartments?
A W Hotel would change the status quo.
Quote from: ChriswUfGator on April 19, 2012, 05:58:52 AM
Quote from: Steve_Lovett on April 19, 2012, 12:00:00 AM
I assure you that the project is not dead in the water.
There is forward-moving progress occurring daily.
I can also assure you that the development plan is not a fiscal folly.
I can't help noticing that there are already two large upscale hotels within blocks of there barely making it, one of which is already taxpayer-subsidized. Maybe I lack fiscal sensibilities, but I'm having a bit of difficulty with the concept of demand being insufficient to support two, so the intelligent thing to do is to build a third? What term would you prefer I use for that?
Is the hotel still part of the project, or is it just down to the condo portion for the Laura trio now?
The hotel concept in the Barnett/Trio has never been "large upscale" to compete with the Omni/Hyatt. It's a different space and scale in the market than those trying to fill 600-900 beds per night in a nameless, faceless property.
The Laura Trio hasn't had a "condo portion".
Quote from: Steve_Lovett on April 19, 2012, 09:48:59 AM
Quote from: ChriswUfGator on April 19, 2012, 05:58:52 AM
Quote from: Steve_Lovett on April 19, 2012, 12:00:00 AM
I assure you that the project is not dead in the water.
There is forward-moving progress occurring daily.
I can also assure you that the development plan is not a fiscal folly.
I can't help noticing that there are already two large upscale hotels within blocks of there barely making it, one of which is already taxpayer-subsidized. Maybe I lack fiscal sensibilities, but I'm having a bit of difficulty with the concept of demand being insufficient to support two, so the intelligent thing to do is to build a third? What term would you prefer I use for that?
Is the hotel still part of the project, or is it just down to the condo portion for the Laura trio now?
The hotel concept in the Barnett/Trio has never been "large upscale" to compete with the Omni/Hyatt. It's a different space and scale in the market than those trying to fill 600-900 beds per night in a nameless, faceless property.
The Laura Trio hasn't had a "condo portion".
What was the companion tower in the renderings for then?
Quote from: acme54321 on April 19, 2012, 09:46:52 AM
Maybe like the Bohemian in Savannah? I thought the Barnett plan had only a portion of the floors as hotel and the rest were condos/apartments?
We could spend hours discussing the differences between the wharf area in downtown Savannah and the Barnett building in downtown Jacksonville. You'd almost have to be trying to lose money at that location in Savannah. The same hardly holds true here.
Quote from: ChriswUfGator on April 19, 2012, 09:54:43 AM
Quote from: acme54321 on April 19, 2012, 09:46:52 AM
Maybe like the Bohemian in Savannah? I thought the Barnett plan had only a portion of the floors as hotel and the rest were condos/apartments?
We could spend hours discussing the differences between the wharf area in downtown Savannah and the Barnett building in downtown Jacksonville. You'd almost have to be trying to lose money at that location in Savannah. The same hardly holds true here.
Really?
Quote from: acme54321 on April 19, 2012, 09:56:58 AM
Quote from: ChriswUfGator on April 19, 2012, 09:54:43 AM
Quote from: acme54321 on April 19, 2012, 09:46:52 AM
Maybe like the Bohemian in Savannah? I thought the Barnett plan had only a portion of the floors as hotel and the rest were condos/apartments?
We could spend hours discussing the differences between the wharf area in downtown Savannah and the Barnett building in downtown Jacksonville. You'd almost have to be trying to lose money at that location in Savannah. The same hardly holds true here.
Really?
Have you been downtown this decade?
Quote from: ChriswUfGator on April 19, 2012, 09:53:58 AM
Quote from: Steve_Lovett on April 19, 2012, 09:48:59 AM
Quote from: ChriswUfGator on April 19, 2012, 05:58:52 AM
Quote from: Steve_Lovett on April 19, 2012, 12:00:00 AM
I assure you that the project is not dead in the water.
There is forward-moving progress occurring daily.
I can also assure you that the development plan is not a fiscal folly.
I can't help noticing that there are already two large upscale hotels within blocks of there barely making it, one of which is already taxpayer-subsidized. Maybe I lack fiscal sensibilities, but I'm having a bit of difficulty with the concept of demand being insufficient to support two, so the intelligent thing to do is to build a third? What term would you prefer I use for that?
Is the hotel still part of the project, or is it just down to the condo portion for the Laura trio now?
The hotel concept in the Barnett/Trio has never been "large upscale" to compete with the Omni/Hyatt. It's a different space and scale in the market than those trying to fill 600-900 beds per night in a nameless, faceless property.
The Laura Trio hasn't had a "condo portion".
What was the companion tower in the renderings for then?
Apartments. Rental product. Not condo.
Quote from: Steve_Lovett on April 19, 2012, 09:59:24 AM
Quote from: ChriswUfGator on April 19, 2012, 09:53:58 AM
Quote from: Steve_Lovett on April 19, 2012, 09:48:59 AM
Quote from: ChriswUfGator on April 19, 2012, 05:58:52 AM
Quote from: Steve_Lovett on April 19, 2012, 12:00:00 AM
I assure you that the project is not dead in the water.
There is forward-moving progress occurring daily.
I can also assure you that the development plan is not a fiscal folly.
I can't help noticing that there are already two large upscale hotels within blocks of there barely making it, one of which is already taxpayer-subsidized. Maybe I lack fiscal sensibilities, but I'm having a bit of difficulty with the concept of demand being insufficient to support two, so the intelligent thing to do is to build a third? What term would you prefer I use for that?
Is the hotel still part of the project, or is it just down to the condo portion for the Laura trio now?
The hotel concept in the Barnett/Trio has never been "large upscale" to compete with the Omni/Hyatt. It's a different space and scale in the market than those trying to fill 600-900 beds per night in a nameless, faceless property.
The Laura Trio hasn't had a "condo portion".
What was the companion tower in the renderings for then?
Apartments. Rental product. Not condo.
That's even worse.
11E and the Carling have only hung on because of taxpayer subsidies, and those projects nearly bankrupted Vestcor, which narrowly escaped when the city agreed to renegotiate bond payments. Judging by the price tag of this project, I'm guessing this won't be affordable housing. So we're back to square one, which is that there is already insufficient demand to support identical competing uses, so clearly the smart move is to build another one?
Figure out a way to make it affordable housing, it'll fill up.
But what you're proposing, there's no market for.
Oh and I just noticed the "nameless faceless property" comment.
Even with my limited knowledge of the hospitality industry, I know that what you're spinning as a positive is actually a negative in this scenario. They're not nameless at all, are they? It's a Hyatt and an Omni. Since you're putting this thing downtown, and competing for convention and game-day business, I think you're underestimating the extent to which that traffic cares about their rewards points and brand consistency.
This thing is a hotel, let me ask you this, who's your target customer?
Quote from: ChriswUfGator on April 19, 2012, 10:05:15 AM
So we're back to square one, which is that there is already insufficient demand to support identical competing uses, so clearly the smart move is to build another one?
Figure out a way to make it affordable housing, it'll fill up.
But what you're proposing, there's no market for.
Could not possibly agree with you more here.
There is already a surpluss of both hotel rooms and high-end housing downtown relative demand.
Makes zero economic sense, at least on the surface, to add any more of either.
You're only going to doom the project from the start and/or do significant damage to the struggling (subsidized) existing locations.
Affordable housing, on the other hand, makes perfect sense.
Quote from: ChriswUfGator on April 19, 2012, 09:59:01 AM
Quote from: acme54321 on April 19, 2012, 09:56:58 AM
Quote from: ChriswUfGator on April 19, 2012, 09:54:43 AM
Quote from: acme54321 on April 19, 2012, 09:46:52 AM
Maybe like the Bohemian in Savannah? I thought the Barnett plan had only a portion of the floors as hotel and the rest were condos/apartments?
We could spend hours discussing the differences between the wharf area in downtown Savannah and the Barnett building in downtown Jacksonville. You'd almost have to be trying to lose money at that location in Savannah. The same hardly holds true here.
Really?
Have you been downtown this decade?
LOL Sarcasm
My mental picture of the Hotel aspect was that of an upscale boutique hotel. Probably 70 rooms or less that caters to business travelers. For instance when Everbank or Fidelity had out of town upper management guests visiting, they would stay there. If JEDC had a relocation prospect in town, they would also be staying there.
Does Jax have anything along those lines now? Nothing comes right to mind for me.
Quote from: KenFSU on April 19, 2012, 10:22:36 AM
Quote from: ChriswUfGator on April 19, 2012, 10:05:15 AM
So we're back to square one, which is that there is already insufficient demand to support identical competing uses, so clearly the smart move is to build another one?
Figure out a way to make it affordable housing, it'll fill up.
But what you're proposing, there's no market for.
Could not possibly agree with you more here.
There is already a surpluss of both hotel rooms and high-end housing downtown relative demand.
Makes zero economic sense, at least on the surface, to add any more of either.
You're only going to doom the project from the start and/or do significant damage to the struggling (subsidized) existing locations.
Affordable housing, on the other hand, makes perfect sense.
I agree Ken Affordable housing is the only thing that will succeed in this market. The high end condo is dead in this economy and especially in this city. The Brooklyn project is an example of affordable housing that will be for rent. The reason I never moved downtown is because is to expensive. I had 802 sq ft one bedroom apartment with washer and dryer on the southside for 630.00 a month. For 630.00, You MAY get a studio at the Carling that is like maybe 500 SQ. Its just not affordable.
Affordable housing in the heart of the Northbank is much more likely to happen with the revamp of a building like the Ashley Tower (now City Place). However, the structure probably best suited for an affordable housing revamp (City Hall Annex) is the one people want blown to smithereens before the end of the year.
At the end of the day something needs to be done with these structures, and fast. At this point any sensible restoration plan that doesn't drastically alter the historic fabric is good in my book, fiscally sound or not.
Quote from: acme54321 on April 19, 2012, 11:50:21 AM
At the end of the day something needs to be done with these structures, and fast. At this point any sensible restoration plan that doesn't drastically alter the historic fabric is good in my book, fiscally sound or not.
I'll agree with this. Even if the plan is doomed to failure, if it results in these buildings being restored and ready for use, I'm all for it.
Quote from: Timkin on April 18, 2012, 11:25:21 PM
Quote from: Anti redneck on April 18, 2012, 08:14:27 PM
Quote from: Timkin on April 18, 2012, 06:21:09 PM
Chris.. If not renovated into apartments or lofts, what would you /everyone envision working in the Trio Space?
just curious.
I'm not Chris, but.....
A fancy hotel and a nice fancy restaurant. Duh.
Quote from: ChriswUfGator on April 19, 2012, 05:58:52 AM
Quote from: Steve_Lovett on April 19, 2012, 12:00:00 AM
I assure you that the project is not dead in the water.
There is forward-moving progress occurring daily.
I can also assure you that the development plan is not a fiscal folly.
I can't help noticing that there are already two large upscale hotels within blocks of there barely making it, one of which is already taxpayer-subsidized. Maybe I lack fiscal sensibilities, but I'm having a bit of difficulty with the concept of demand being insufficient to support two, so the intelligent thing to do is to build a third? What term would you prefer I use for that?
Is the hotel still part of the project, or is it just down to the condo portion for the Laura trio now?
Not sure why Anti-Redneck replies Fancy Hotel , Fancy Restaurant. Duh . Think if this proposal was solid , it would be a reality by now?
Quote from: acme54321 on April 19, 2012, 11:50:21 AM
At the end of the day something needs to be done with these structures, and fast. At this point any sensible restoration plan that doesn't drastically alter the historic fabric is good in my book, fiscally sound or not.
I would say the same holds true for every Historic Structure we treasure and want to save.
Quote from: Timkin on April 19, 2012, 10:28:25 PM
Quote from: Timkin on April 18, 2012, 11:25:21 PM
Quote from: Anti redneck on April 18, 2012, 08:14:27 PM
Quote from: Timkin on April 18, 2012, 06:21:09 PM
Chris.. If not renovated into apartments or lofts, what would you /everyone envision working in the Trio Space?
just curious.
I'm not Chris, but.....
A fancy hotel and a nice fancy restaurant. Duh.
Quote from: ChriswUfGator on April 19, 2012, 05:58:52 AM
Quote from: Steve_Lovett on April 19, 2012, 12:00:00 AM
I assure you that the project is not dead in the water.
There is forward-moving progress occurring daily.
I can also assure you that the development plan is not a fiscal folly.
I can't help noticing that there are already two large upscale hotels within blocks of there barely making it, one of which is already taxpayer-subsidized. Maybe I lack fiscal sensibilities, but I'm having a bit of difficulty with the concept of demand being insufficient to support two, so the intelligent thing to do is to build a third? What term would you prefer I use for that?
Is the hotel still part of the project, or is it just down to the condo portion for the Laura trio now?
Not sure why Anti-Redneck replies Fancy Hotel , Fancy Restaurant. Duh . Think if this proposal was solid , it would be a reality by now?
What were you thinking?
Quote from: Anti redneck on April 18, 2012, 08:14:27 PM
Quote from: Timkin on April 18, 2012, 06:21:09 PM
Chris.. If not renovated into apartments or lofts, what would you /everyone envision working in the Trio Space?
just curious.
I'm not Chris, but.....
A fancy hotel and a nice fancy restaurant. Duh.
I did not have a proposal for the building. I asked Chris (and everyone else) about suggestions. You had a suggestion and ended that with Duh. I don't find fault with your suggestion, but I don't get the necessity to add 'duh' to the end of it. It is as if I should have known your answer or that your suggestion is so obviously the answer to the problem, some developer in the past should have done this already and we would be looking at a restored trio. I asked a simple question. It was part of your reply I do not understand.
Sorry. I guess I should've added a JK at the end. But really if you look at the structure, it looks perfect for such a proposal. Whatever Khan has lined up, whether it be investment or to resell the property, I hope it's something good and I hope he does it fast.
I understand now. Thank you. I have no problem with your proposal. If it is the idea that gives us a restored Laura Trio, my hats off to you and all who make it possible.
Other than residential, hotel, or the like, I know of nothing that can occupy that fairly sizable space and make the project viable.
The Barnett building could be affordable housing initially, which would be the exact type of generator downtown needs to get the ball rolling so that someday it could support another hotel. This proposal shows a basic misunderstanding of how cities work, and what works in Savannah doesn't apply here, Savannah never turned itself into sprawling suburb, it still has a dense downtown, plus lots of tourist draws, that's a different ball game.
You can't go straight to that, it starts with workers, jobs, places they can afford to live, transportation, and steadily things pop up to serve that population, stores, restaurants etc. Presently there is no demand for what's being proposed here. Downtown is this unique clusterfuck of problems, to make COJ get onboard people have to promise the moon, and so you wind up with what we've got, where nobody who can afford to live downtown actually will, and nobody who would live downtown can afford to.
The solution isn't more of the same.
I agree with the affordable/workforce housing issue. We need that Downtown. I did ask Ed Burr about it the other morning at the ULI breakfast.
QuoteThe solution isn't more of the same.
Agreed, but neither will spending 130,000 to fix a park that no one but government workers and vagrants inhabit. Work from the river back, the river is the best part of our city, better than any park, period. Work to make the river more of the destination, and with mass, work your way back.
Fixing Hemming this way, is like what Peyton did in making a pocket park next to Main street.
Hemming needs very little done to it. Do the basic repairs ,clean out any dead/dying trees or whatever and call it a day.
Should realistically be no where close to $130k
What is the update on this anyway? Has there been anyone trying to buy it from Khan?
I'm not even sure if Khan has even purchased the properties at this point. Wasn't the interview basically saying that he was considering buying them?
^he was saying he would offer lending assistance in the form of a loan to good developers looking to buy and restore it. He's not looking to buy or develop himself.
Yeah is he offering lending assistance. He stated he his not a develper and not looking to be one. From understanding he has currently being talking to the current developer. He was referred to him by the Chamber of Commerce I think. Hopefully something unfolds.
^Civic council.
Quote from: fsujax on April 20, 2012, 10:20:03 AM
I agree with the affordable/workforce housing issue. We need that Downtown. I did ask Ed Burr about it the other morning at the ULI breakfast.
What was his response?
He basically agreed and said it was something the Civic Council should focus on, he was also asked about transit and highlighted the fact that light rail would be extremely important to success of downtown.
Of course he said that. I mean what was he going to say? "I don't think downtown housing is important". All these "leaders" pay lip service. It would be nice to see some implementation for once.
well, I would rather have them talking about than not, maybe one day it will turn into action.
Quotehighlighted the fact that light rail would be extremely important to success of downtown.
I just don't get it. Why all this talk of light rail?
Do people just not even read the studies they pay for?
(http://media.metrojacksonville.com/photos/images/transit/jta_streetcar_study/streetcarrreport090808_page_27.jpg)
QuoteDo people just not even read the studies they pay for?
Read them? They probably don't even know the studies exist.