TransForm Jax is working to bring bike sharing to Jacksonville....and we need your help!
Ever thought how cool it would be to ride a bicycle on a Saturday morning from the Riverside Arts Market to downtown, along the Riverwalk, even if you didn’t bring your own?
Be a part of the Bike Share revolution â€" Vote to bring a bicycle sharing program to Jacksonville. Tell the people at B-Cycle Jacksonville Wants It More! All you have to do is visit the link and enter your local Zip Code.
http://www.bcycle.com/whowantsitmore.aspx
We had someone from Transform Jax at our last BPAC meeting but he left early.
Would you like a spot on our next agenda?
Its a good idea, but I think it runs the real chance of struggling (and ultimately failing) since the city itself sucks so much in this regard (bike lanes, networks & such). All the towns that sharing is successful in already had an established bike network. Jax would be doing it backwards.
BikecJax has done some homework on this question. Check with them.
Quote from: peestandingup on February 21, 2012, 11:34:14 PM
Its a good idea, but I think it runs the real chance of struggling (and ultimately failing) since the city itself sucks so much in this regard (bike lanes, networks & such). All the towns that sharing is successful in already had an established bike network. Jax would be doing it backwards.
does that include Des Moines, Iowa and Spartarnsburg, SC?
Quote from: Dashing Dan on February 21, 2012, 11:28:22 PM
We had someone from Transform Jax at our last BPAC meeting but he left early.
Would you like a spot on our next agenda?
sure
Nashville is breaking in two bike share programs. See below.
http://www.tennessean.com/article/20120402/NEWS01/304020030/Nashville-s-public-bike-program-still-training-wheel-stage?odyssey=tab|topnews|text|FRONTPAGE (http://www.tennessean.com/article/20120402/NEWS01/304020030/Nashville-s-public-bike-program-still-training-wheel-stage?odyssey=tab%7Ctopnews%7Ctext%7CFRONTPAGE)
FWIW, I think it would be wrong for Jax to promote bike sharing without (at the very least) creating bike lanes and promoting bike safety.
The last thing you want to see is people renting bikes and then getting hit by cars. I don't know how it would work in Jax, but when they rolled out the bike share program in London, suddenly there were a lot of inexperienced cyclists on the road. I lost count (literally) of the number of times I saw a cyclist on a Boris bike cheat death/serious injury. I honestly believe that things would've been much worse if traffic didn't move so slowly and there weren't cycle lanes/bus lanes for these amateurs to use. (I believe we've had somewhere near 200 accidents involving the bikes since they were rolled out in July 2010).
Just a thought.
well it all goes together....more bike lanes are being added every year....and just recently sharrows were added in Riverside.
Quote from: tufsu1 on April 02, 2012, 02:37:09 PM
well it all goes together....more bike lanes are being added every year....and just recently sharrows were added in Riverside.
That's good, though I don't personally care for sharrows, especially in a city like Jacksonville where motorists are not used to sharing the road with cyclists (or seem to actively despise cyclists).
But it's a start, I suppose.
Quote from: Adam W on April 02, 2012, 02:41:43 PM
Quote from: tufsu1 on April 02, 2012, 02:37:09 PM
well it all goes together....more bike lanes are being added every year....and just recently sharrows were added in Riverside.
That's good, though I don't personally care for sharrows, especially in a city like Jacksonville where motorists are not used to sharing the road with cyclists (or seem to actively despise cyclists).
But it's a start, I suppose.
So are you suggesting that no pavement markings warning motorists of the presence of bicyclists is a better alternative?
Quote from: cline on April 02, 2012, 03:03:52 PM
Quote from: Adam W on April 02, 2012, 02:41:43 PM
Quote from: tufsu1 on April 02, 2012, 02:37:09 PM
well it all goes together....more bike lanes are being added every year....and just recently sharrows were added in Riverside.
That's good, though I don't personally care for sharrows, especially in a city like Jacksonville where motorists are not used to sharing the road with cyclists (or seem to actively despise cyclists).
But it's a start, I suppose.
So are you suggesting that no pavement markings warning motorists of the presence of bicyclists is a better alternative?
No, and I certainly don't follow your logic. I think dedicated bicycle lanes are a better answer than sharrows.
Quote from: Adam W on April 02, 2012, 03:11:09 PM
Quote from: cline on April 02, 2012, 03:03:52 PM
Quote from: Adam W on April 02, 2012, 02:41:43 PM
Quote from: tufsu1 on April 02, 2012, 02:37:09 PM
well it all goes together....more bike lanes are being added every year....and just recently sharrows were added in Riverside.
That's good, though I don't personally care for sharrows, especially in a city like Jacksonville where motorists are not used to sharing the road with cyclists (or seem to actively despise cyclists).
But it's a start, I suppose.
So are you suggesting that no pavement markings warning motorists of the presence of bicyclists is a better alternative?
No, and I certainly don't follow your logic. I think dedicated bicycle lanes are a better answer than sharrows.
Of course dedicated bicycle lanes are the better answer in terms of safety. That's obvious. However, there are circumstances where adding a dedicated bike lane is not feasible (due to ROW constraints etc.) as is the case on Riverside where the sharrows were installed. Travel lanes in that area are already very narrow and there is virtually no shoulder for bicyclists to ride in. Therefore the sharrows, at a minimum, alert drivers that bicyclists utilize the travel lanes. That is a far better solution than doing nothing.
Quote from: cline on April 02, 2012, 03:22:27 PM
Quote from: Adam W on April 02, 2012, 03:11:09 PM
Quote from: cline on April 02, 2012, 03:03:52 PM
Quote from: Adam W on April 02, 2012, 02:41:43 PM
Quote from: tufsu1 on April 02, 2012, 02:37:09 PM
well it all goes together....more bike lanes are being added every year....and just recently sharrows were added in Riverside.
That's good, though I don't personally care for sharrows, especially in a city like Jacksonville where motorists are not used to sharing the road with cyclists (or seem to actively despise cyclists).
But it's a start, I suppose.
So are you suggesting that no pavement markings warning motorists of the presence of bicyclists is a better alternative?
No, and I certainly don't follow your logic. I think dedicated bicycle lanes are a better answer than sharrows.
Of course dedicated bicycle lanes are the better answer in terms of safety. That's obvious. However, there are circumstances where adding a dedicated bike lane is not feasible (due to ROW constraints etc.) as is the case on Riverside where the sharrows were installed. Travel lanes in that area are already very narrow and there is virtually no shoulder for bicyclists to ride in. Therefore the sharrows, at a minimum, alert drivers that bicyclists utilize the travel lanes. That is a far better solution than doing nothing.
I agree. That's why my original post said the following (see above):
"But it's a start, I suppose."
In fact, I also said it was good. It seems as if you're looking for a reason to argue with me. I don't get it.
I've had more than my fair share of close scrapes with motorists in Jax, both the accidental kind and the intentional kind (where I was targeted for being a cyclist). Sharrows are obviously better than nothing, but in a city where motorists are blind to cyclists (either willfully or through ignorance), sharrows aren't much better at all.
But anyway, let loose a bunch of newbies on hire bikes and see how long it is before one ends up under the wheels of some pickup truck or SUV.
Quote from: cline on April 02, 2012, 03:22:27 PM
Of course dedicated bicycle lanes are the better answer in terms of safety. That's obvious.
It may be likely but it's not obvious. Some would argue that cyclists are safer using the outside of a wide lane that does not have bike lane markings.
Agree with others...why Bike Share before bike lanes? Would it be designed for tourists or commuters? Seems like most cities with Bike Share did so with commuters in mind. Do many bike to work in Jax?
^ actually most city bike share programs are used by visitors or those making transit trips (the last mile thing)....let's say we put in stations near the Landing and RAM....folks could use the Riverwalk, which is just as good if not better than a bike lane.
Quote from: tufsu1 on April 02, 2012, 10:23:27 PM
^ actually most city bike share programs are used by visitors or those making transit trips (the last mile thing)....let's say we put in stations near the Landing and RAM....folks could use the Riverwalk, which is just as good if not better than a bike lane.
Understood, but doesn't "the last mile" imply that you're finishing the last mile of your journey with a bike? If I take a train or a bus into the city from somewhere outside the city and finish my journey on bike (b/c I didn't drive my car) it makes sense to me. If I take the Skyway from San Marco, I'm barely a mile from the city in the first place. Most people heading into the city in Jax seem to drive. Why would you drive in, find parking, then locate a bike station? Maybe on the weekend, but doesn't a bike rental "pop-up" make more sense than an installed bike share program for that sort of use?
Quote from: Dashing Dan on April 02, 2012, 09:36:55 PM
Quote from: cline on April 02, 2012, 03:22:27 PM
Of course dedicated bicycle lanes are the better answer in terms of safety. That's obvious.
It may be likely but it's not obvious. Some would argue that cyclists are safer using the outside of a wide lane that does not have bike lane markings.
Good point, Dan. I don't know that it's true (and I'm not saying it isn't), but it reminds me of the whole bicycle helmet debate: some studies seem to show you're safer without a helmet (or less likely to have a traffic accident).
I think we'd all agree that developing a comprehensive plan for cycling in Jax would be the best approach, as opposed to doing little bits here and there without an overarching goal or strategy.
Do you honestly think that it is safer to ride a bike without a helmet?
Bike lane or no bike lane - You have to wear a helmet!
Lights are also a very good idea.
Quote from: Dashing Dan on April 02, 2012, 09:36:55 PM
Quote from: cline on April 02, 2012, 03:22:27 PM
Of course dedicated bicycle lanes are the better answer in terms of safety. That's obvious.
It may be likely but it's not obvious. Some would argue that cyclists are safer using the outside of a wide lane that does not have bike lane markings.
Are we talking about dedicated bike lanes that are separated from the lane of traffic or simply the shoulder of the road (which could be marked or unmarked for bicycles).
QuoteI think we'd all agree that developing a comprehensive plan for cycling in Jax would be the best approach, as opposed to doing little bits here and there without an overarching goal or strategy.
Indeed. And one does exist.
http://www.coj.net/departments/planning-and-development/community-planning-division/transportation-planning/bicycle-and-pedestrian-planning.aspx
Quote from: cline on April 03, 2012, 08:32:37 AM
Quote from: Dashing Dan on April 02, 2012, 09:36:55 PM
Quote from: cline on April 02, 2012, 03:22:27 PM
Of course dedicated bicycle lanes are the better answer in terms of safety. That's obvious.
It may be likely but it's not obvious. Some would argue that cyclists are safer using the outside of a wide lane that does not have bike lane markings.
Are we talking about dedicated bike lanes that are separated from the lane of traffic or simply the shoulder of the road (which could be marked or unmarked for bicycles).
I've seen video showing that motorists are more likely to make room for bicyclists if a roadway is wide enoujgh for a bicycle lane but is not painted for one.
QuoteI think we'd all agree that developing a comprehensive plan for cycling in Jax would be the best approach, as opposed to doing little bits here and there without an overarching goal or strategy.
Indeed. And one does exist.
http://www.coj.net/departments/planning-and-development/community-planning-division/transportation-planning/bicycle-and-pedestrian-planning.aspx
That plan is from 1999. It is way overdue to be done over again. In the meantime we are stuck without a workable plan for bicycle facilities in Jacksonville. The best that we've got right now is the bicycle component of the mobility plan.
Quote from: acme54321 on April 03, 2012, 07:21:00 AM
Do you honestly think that it is safer to ride a bike without a helmet?
Personally, I don't know, but I'm on the fence about it. But there are studies:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/somerset/5334208.stm
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bicycle_helmet#Are_helmets_harmful.3F_Undesirable_effects_of_helmet_use
My way of looking at it is that the potential slight increase in the likelihood that you'll be knocked off your bike is mitigated (in part) by the protection offered to your head.
When I was a kid, I never wore a helmet and never had a problem. Of course, I didn't commute to and from work every day on a bicycle (and in traffic). These days, I wear a helmet, though I have been known to skip it from time to time.
Just an opinion, but I don't see any benefit to wearing a helmet on either a bike or a motorcycle.
The only accident that a helmet would benefit is really only a fall backwards - when your head slams into the concrete. Falling in most any other position allows you protection based on the direction of the fall. Any collision is going to produce more neck / spinal trauma than head injury. At least that's been what I've seen, albeit limited.
I'm sure the studies say otherwise, but there are also studies that say it's safer to drive under a moderate influence than it is to drive while texting. Do we get to pick and choose which study to follow?
I'm sure there are studies that show people are safer without seat belts or air bags.
I just wish someone would start marketing a helmet that looks normal - not like I'm part of the Tour de France.
I've got a commuter bike, so why can't I find a commuter helmet?
You need one of those Time Trial helmets that are aerodynamic and have the pointy back. That way you could shave some time off of you work commute.
I don't like that quite a few helmets are Styrofoam based with a thin skin. The market is flooded with Fake bike helmets.
Bike lanes are needed throughout the entire core
Quote from: cline on April 03, 2012, 09:47:26 AM
You need one of those Time Trial helmets that are aerodynamic and have the pointy back. That way you could shave some time off of you work commute.
Don't forget the Lycra bodysuit. :D
(http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2180/2399091433_a9c7f3cb4c.jpg)
^Where did you get that race photo of me?
Quote from: Dashing Dan on April 03, 2012, 09:42:56 AM
I'm sure there are studies that show people are safer without seat belts or air bags.
I just wish someone would start marketing a helmet that looks normal - not like I'm part of the Tour de France.
I've got a commuter bike, so why can't I find a commuter helmet?
I know they make hats for skiers that look like regular beanies or whatever, but the fibres go stiff when they're compressed. So the hat basically turns into a helmet when your head hits the snow. I wonder if they can make helmets like that.
Other than that, you're stuck with either some weird spacey looking thing or a helmet that makes you look like a wannabe BMXer.
Quote from: dougskiles on April 03, 2012, 12:43:35 PM
^Where did you get that race photo of me?
The same day you asked if you could borrow my roadie.
Quote from: Adam W on April 03, 2012, 01:10:16 PM
Quote from: Dashing Dan on April 03, 2012, 09:42:56 AM
I just wish someone would start marketing a helmet that looks normal - not like I'm part of the Tour de France.
I've got a commuter bike, so why can't I find a commuter helmet?
I know they make hats for skiers that look like regular beanies or whatever, but the fibres go stiff when they're compressed. So the hat basically turns into a helmet when your head hits the snow. I wonder if they can make helmets like that.
Other than that, you're stuck with either some weird spacey looking thing or a helmet that makes you look like a wannabe BMXer.
I wonder how an equestrian helmet would work on a bike. Those helmets look sharp, as in Ralph Lauren Polo!
Just say eff it & do a full on viking helmet. Because when you bike in Jax, you feel like you're going into battle anyway.
(http://farm1.static.flickr.com/100/284327546_cf1952ac6c.jpg)
Considering that I work as a planning consultant, that's a helmet I could wear all day!