I've suspected this. It seems that conservatives like simplicity. To strive for simplicity in much of life is good for the most part, but too much simplicity frequently ignores some important issues, problems, or aspects which should be confronted or solved. Are they suggesting that if one cannot or does not wish to understand the complex issues or dynamics of the real world, then one might be inclined to be a conservative, a racist, or a conservative? To me, it sounds reasonable to suggest this.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/01/27/intelligence-study-links-prejudice_n_1237796.html?ref=mostpopular
I'd like to believe this study, but I heard on the radio just yesterday, that Conservatives are smarter than Liberals. Sean Hannity is a great American... would he lie?
I see conservatives as those who are unable to comprehend reality or understand science and are just full of bullshit.
My post was science, your post is religion.
While we're on the subject of linking things to IQ, how about "happiness"? Just looking at the titles of the top google search results indicates no correlation. One of the more interesting studies can be found here:
http://www2.eur.nl/fsw/research/veenhoven/Pub2000s/Intelligence&Happiness7.rtf (http://www2.eur.nl/fsw/research/veenhoven/Pub2000s/Intelligence&Happiness7.rtf)
QuoteAbstract:
Are smart people happier? In this study, the relation between intelligence and happiness is explored at two levels, at the micro-level of individuals and at the macro-level of nations.
At the micro-level, we took stock of the results of 23 correlational studies. Studies among normal people show no correlation between scores on tests of intelligence and happiness. Studies among exceptional people also do not show the expected difference. Gifted people are not happier than average, but people with learning disabilities are. At the macro level, we assessed the correlation between average IQ and average happiness in 59 nations. At first sight, the correlation is positive. Yet the relationship disappeared when poor and rich nations were considered separately and also when culturally similar nations were compared.
One interpretation of these findings is that intelligence does not affect happiness; another is that its positive effects are counterbalanced by negative ones. Future research should look for such negative effects.
Perhaps ignorance can be bliss...
Do simple minds seek simple solutions?
"For each of the world's great, complicated problems there is a simple answer and it is wrong" - Montague
Wow... I learn more about Ron every day...
I personally don't believe that someone's religious or political beliefs are an indication of intelligence or moral character.
From the end of the article:
QuoteDr. Brian Nosek, a University of Virginia psychologist, echoed those sentiments.
"Reality is complicated and messy," he told The Huffington Post in an email. "Ideologies get rid of the messiness and impose a simpler solution. So, it may not be surprising that people with less cognitive capacity will be attracted to simplifying ideologies."
But Nosek said less intelligent types might be attracted to liberal "simplifying ideologies" as well as conservative ones.
In any case, the study has taken the Internet by storm, with some outspoken liberals saying that it validates their suspicions about conservatives and conservatives arguing that the research has been misinterpreted.
Quote from: BridgeTroll on February 04, 2012, 09:07:14 AM
Wow... I learn more about Ron every day...
Thanks Troll. I just thought this article would stimulate a little thought on the subject of intelligence vs. inclinations to racism, prejudice, and conservatism. But no, I'm really not as intelligent as I seem to be. As I recall, my I.Q. testing showed over 400 however.
But, seriously, it all seems a little confusing to me, especially when someone relates the conservative thought to a lack of intelligence. I can more clearly see an association of a lack of a certain kind of intelligence to the racist or one who is excessively prejudiced against others because of ethnicity, color, or religious beliefs.
Surely one can assume that a racist lacks something in the mind, something that should be there. And the same goes for the religious bigot who aggressively conveys words or actions against believers of other religions. Surely these two types cannot be on the high end of the intelligence spectrum.
And to suggest that all conservatives are of less intelligence seems to be unfounded unless one divides the conservatives into at least two types. In other words, to suggest that the wealthy and successful conservative businessman, who has created a huge empire via hard work and creative business decisions, is of deficient intelligence doesn’t make good sense to me. Perhaps these types are of the conservative bent not as a consequence of deficient general intelligence, but simply because they want to sit on what they have, to keep things the same because the current scenario has been good to them. They are watching out for what they have, and thus, conservatism.
But to suggest, as the Brock University study seems to indicate, that perhaps some of the non-wealthy conservatives might lack on the average some measure of general intelligence might carry some weight. In my opinion, one’s tendency to be of the conservative bent, could be either a result of one’s lack of ability to perceive and digest some of the complexities involved in arriving at good or correct opinions, which is a condition perhaps related to a lack of general intelligence, or simply as a result of one’s lack of education.
Any of us, not matter how smart or well educated can make ourselves "mind-blind" to information or viewpoints that upset our world view. Refusing to think about something can look an awful lot like stupidity.
Quote from: Dog Walker on February 04, 2012, 01:30:35 PM
Any of us, not matter how smart or well educated can make ourselves "mind-blind" to information or viewpoints that upset our world view. Refusing to think about something can look an awful lot like stupidity.
I can see how concepts like “mind-blindâ€, “world viewâ€, and “stupidity†are related to the idea of this subject. I guess you are saying that our world view, being quite fundamental to our mental comfort, can be protected by a tendency to simply avoid thinking about anything which tends to undermine it.
I wonder however, in keeping with the subject, if it is true to state that as one has a greater general intelligence, with the additional fortune of having a good education which might result from the greater intelligence, that one is less vulnerable to attacks on one’s world view; and this, simply because one’s world view, by way of creating it via a higher general intelligence and education, is less built upon one’s faith in revealed religions, and more on one’s understanding of the sciences, histories and humanities, which, by their nature, are less open to attack as compared to a world view based upon one of the revealed religions.
This lack of vulnerability therefore, allows the more intelligent and educated, to have fewer occasions of mind-blindness, simply because they do not feel threatened by anything thrown their way; that is, from someone attempting to undermine their world view. In other words, their world view is on a more solid ground than that of the individual who’s view is based upon a faith in a revealed religion.
On your comment about refusing to think about something can look an awful lot like stupidity? -- I suppose it could look like stupidity. However, one’s direction of thought is usually a result of one’s experiences and knowledge, and of course one’s level of general intelligence, and is seldom a result of intentional refusal to think about something. Stupidity I suppose is the opposite of high intelligence, but unrelated to ignorance, as the latter is simply not being aware of something.
I like labeling people as idiots on a case by case basis.
It's fun and convenient. It doesn't require that I lug a big, broad brush everywhere I go. :)
Quote from: buckethead on February 04, 2012, 09:51:32 PM
I like labeling people as idiots on a case by case basis.
It's fun and convenient. It doesn't require that I lug a big, broad brush everywhere I go. :)
Yes, I do the same thing bkt. And when I say someone is a f#*k'n idiot, even though it is during a moment of frustration, further thought about the target usually supports the statement. To call someone a FI is quite convenient, and it releases a dangerous pressure so that nobody gets killed. The broad brush has its place too however.
Funny thing is I find myself occasionally calling someone a FI while looking in the mirror. And frequently this statement is well founded. ;)
Oh my science! ;D
This discussion reminds me of some of the insights over at the "You Are Not So Smart" blog.
One of the entries begins:
The Misconception:
You celebrate diversity and respect others’ points of view.
The Truth:
You are driven to create and form groups and then believe others are wrong just because they are others.
Reference:
http://youarenotsosmart.com/2011/08/21/the-illusion-of-asymmetric-insight/
Quote from: buckethead on February 04, 2012, 09:51:32 PM
I like labeling people as idiots on a case by case basis.
It's fun and convenient. It doesn't require that I lug a big, broad brush everywhere I go. :)
Good! Very, very good. Best creative use of sarcasm on the forum in a long time. Thumbs up!
Quote from: ronchamblin on February 04, 2012, 12:48:47 PM
Quote from: BridgeTroll on February 04, 2012, 09:07:14 AM
Wow... I learn more about Ron every day...
Thanks Troll. I just thought this article would stimulate a little thought on the subject of intelligence vs. inclinations to racism, prejudice, and conservatism. But no, I'm really not as intelligent as I seem to be. As I recall, my I.Q. testing showed over 400 however.
But, seriously, it all seems a little confusing to me, especially when someone relates the conservative thought to a lack of intelligence. I can more clearly see an association of a lack of a certain kind of intelligence to the racist or one who is excessively prejudiced against others because of ethnicity, color, or religious beliefs.
Surely one can assume that a racist lacks something in the mind, something that should be there. And the same goes for the religious bigot who aggressively conveys words or actions against believers of other religions. Surely these two types cannot be on the high end of the intelligence spectrum.
And to suggest that all conservatives are of less intelligence seems to be unfounded unless one divides the conservatives into at least two types. In other words, to suggest that the wealthy and successful conservative businessman, who has created a huge empire via hard work and creative business decisions, is of deficient intelligence doesn’t make good sense to me. Perhaps these types are of the conservative bent not as a consequence of deficient general intelligence, but simply because they want to sit on what they have, to keep things the same because the current scenario has been good to them. They are watching out for what they have, and thus, conservatism.
But to suggest, as the Brock University study seems to indicate, that perhaps some of the non-wealthy conservatives might lack on the average some measure of general intelligence might carry some weight. In my opinion, one’s tendency to be of the conservative bent, could be either a result of one’s lack of ability to perceive and digest some of the complexities involved in arriving at good or correct opinions, which is a condition perhaps related to a lack of general intelligence, or simply as a result of one’s lack of education.
Absolutely eye opening... Thanks Ron!
400 Is pretty impressive...
(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/f/f7/IQ_curve.svg/350px-IQ_curve.svg.png)
Well....... okay Troll, you caught me. I guess I misinterpreted the test results. Actually, I didn't realize that the curve would zero out about 145 or so. Another thing learned today.
Quote from: ronchamblin on February 05, 2012, 01:03:02 PM
Well....... okay Troll, you caught me. I guess I misinterpreted the test results. Actually, I didn't realize that the curve would zero out about 145 or so. Another thing learned today.
Ron... most call me BT... or bridge... troll is just soooo... well you know....
Quote from: BridgeTroll on February 05, 2012, 01:18:35 PM
Quote from: ronchamblin on February 05, 2012, 01:03:02 PM
Well....... okay Troll, you caught me. I guess I misinterpreted the test results. Actually, I didn't realize that the curve would zero out about 145 or so. Another thing learned today.
Ron... most call me BT... or bridge... troll is just soooo... well you know....
Now that you mention it, weren't you supposed to change over to BurroTroll? ;D
Ron... most call me BT... or bridge... troll is just soooo... well you know....
But how about _... _ or Bravo Tango? Actually the simple BT is good.
Quote from: Non-RedNeck Westsider on February 05, 2012, 02:32:08 PM
Quote from: BridgeTroll on February 05, 2012, 01:18:35 PM
Quote from: ronchamblin on February 05, 2012, 01:03:02 PM
Well....... okay Troll, you caught me. I guess I misinterpreted the test results. Actually, I didn't realize that the curve would zero out about 145 or so. Another thing learned today.
Ron... most call me BT... or bridge... troll is just soooo... well you know....
Now that you mention it, weren't you supposed to change over to BurroTroll? ;D
I thought of that but... am not the regular there as I was at the bridge...
Quote from: ronchamblin on February 04, 2012, 02:24:54 PM
Quote from: Dog Walker on February 04, 2012, 01:30:35 PM
Any of us, not matter how smart or well educated can make ourselves "mind-blind" to information or viewpoints that upset our world view. Refusing to think about something can look an awful lot like stupidity.
I wonder however, in keeping with the subject, if it is true to state that as one has a greater general intelligence, with the additional fortune of having a good education which might result from the greater intelligence, that one is less vulnerable to attacks on one’s world view; and this, simply because one’s world view, by way of creating it via a higher general intelligence and education, is less built upon one’s faith in revealed religions, and more on one’s understanding of the sciences, histories and humanities, which, by their nature, are less open to attack as compared to a world view based upon one of the revealed religions.
This lack of vulnerability therefore, allows the more intelligent and educated, to have fewer occasions of mind-blindness, simply because they do not feel threatened by anything thrown their way; that is, from someone attempting to undermine their world view. In other words, their world view is on a more solid ground than that of the individual who’s view is based upon a faith in a revealed religion.
"Intellect, if you take a close look, is the atrophy of natural instinct.... Intellect has nothing to do with human intelligence and knowledge. Most people confuse them." W.
"We must distrust the intelligence and the conscience and must place our trust in our instincts." A.H.
With predictability our usual ranting liberal Garden Guy, has disproved the entire study in a single line completely disrupting the evolutionary order and eternally securing for himself one of the lower branches of the human lineage. "I see conservatives as those who are unable to comprehend reality or understand science and are just full of bullshit." As one can see from the other two quotes he is in good company.
Ron, I would totally disagree with your theory that people that put their faith in some revealed religion (though I would call it an unseen power) are less likely to be, shall we say, cutting edge. There is one major problem with thinking that being religious is somehow inferior in intellect to those who rely entirely on science. JAPAN. There is no more conservative, minimalist, intelligent, and RELIGIOUS place on the face of the earth. Shinto, meaning "the way of the gods", is Japan's indigenous religion and is practiced by about 83% of the population. Note that unlike Judeo-Christian religions Shinto due to its nature does not require the same admission of faith, instead merely participating in certain aspects of Shinto is generally considered enough for association. Thus surveys say the 70 to 80 percent of the Japanese regularly tell pollsters they do not consider themselves believers in any religion, but that is the nature of the practice of Shinto itself. The best fix a Japan TV producer and I could come up with for the western mind is the belief in attaining oblivion, becoming a non being, part of infinite nature. In any case we wouldn't generally confuse these people with the word "stupid." (I think my Honda's just honked)
Further evidence can be found in ancient writings (The Emerald Tablets, Theravada, Bible, Kabbalaha קַבָּלָה, Buddhavacana, Bhagavad Gita, Plato or the other philosophers on Mars Hill) some myth perhaps, perhaps not, but faithful wisdom that there is something out there bigger then us, and a willingness to seek it out.
Science is change as much as fact, how many times in our lifetime has salt and sugar been healthy, unhealthy, healthy, unhealthy, healthy... Each new discovery sends us back to the books or the lab. The first time Gigantopithecus, comes slothing out of the Okefenokee, and into the back of some good ol' boys pickup truck, the scientific community will slap their brow and exclaim, "Damn, I knew that was going to happen!"
Likewise science can't explain the phenomena of "Foo Fighters," but they are absolutely documented. Scientist have been baffled by Indian fire walkers, but they'll deny "Shape Shifters..." Who is really smart? Scientific study had long mocked the Septuagint, but one by one almost every city has been located, moreover, located in the condition which was recorded by ancient scribes. Ya just have to wonder how those walls at Jericho fall down at the precise moment of invasion? We don't know that answer through scientific study, but your local rabbi does.
Actually I think all sides are quite capable of intelligent study and discourse, with the single exception of those who are damaged, illiterate, or enraged by beliefs of other kinds.
The downside to suggesting that one group or the other is superior is documented in the 1942 cartoon, "Tulips Shall Grow," posted below for you enjoyment.
http://www.youtube.com/v/FgFUzqrbKSc?version=3&hl=en_US
QuoteWhenever there is a serious tension in life, when a sort of all-pervasive materialism invades the hearts of human souls - an answering manifestation of wisdom and righteousness is essential to restore equilibrium. The Supreme, though unborn and undying, becomes manifest in human embodiment to overthrow the forces of ignorance and selfishness.
SOURCE: Bhagavad Gita, Chapter IV, Verse 7 ;D.
Last but not least Ron, if your IQ is 400 (mine too!) consider the curve is undulating and rises and falls at each 100, dropping back to 0 every 50 points. In our case that would equal 100x4... ;) Did you guys really expect anything else from me? LOL ::)
I just remembered these.. "A wise man's heart is seldom cheerful" and "About his intelligence no man should be boastful, rather cautious of mind". Both old Norse proverbs showing a deep understanding about the minds and hearts of people. Pretty neat. Especially when coupled with their other proverbs that deal with the brutality they are famous for... "A head stuck on a pike no longer conspires" and "A man who has his feet hacked off cannot scurry far". They were a people that often showed the best and worst of what humanity were capable of, in terms of intelligence and drive.
The fact that Garden Guy instantly took up this cause with no other fact checking should be an indication of the study's inaccuracy. Ron may want to change his password, because I think Faye is hacking his metrojax account.
It's hard to be humble but necessary IMO. Confirmation bias seems to be the biggest obstacle.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Confirmation_bias (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Confirmation_bias)
Quote from: Captain Zissou on February 07, 2012, 08:54:46 AM
The fact that Garden Guy instantly took up this cause with no other fact checking should be an indication of the study's inaccuracy.
LoL
+1
Then again, maybe there's something to this: http://www.buzzfeed.com/provincialelitist/congressman-sources-an-onion-article-as-fact-on-fa
Fine, I read that story earlier this morning and laughed so loud that my dogs started barking! One of his constituents commented, "We didn't know he could read!"
Too funny.
Quote from: ronchamblin on February 04, 2012, 12:48:47 PM
Quote from: BridgeTroll on February 04, 2012, 09:07:14 AM
Wow... I learn more about Ron every day...
Thanks Troll. I just thought this article would stimulate a little thought on the subject of intelligence vs. inclinations to racism, prejudice, and conservatism. But no, I'm really not as intelligent as I seem to be. As I recall, my I.Q. testing showed over 400 however.
But, seriously, it all seems a little confusing to me, especially when someone relates the conservative thought to a lack of intelligence. I can more clearly see an association of a lack of a certain kind of intelligence to the racist or one who is excessively prejudiced against others because of ethnicity, color, or religious beliefs.
Surely one can assume that a racist lacks something in the mind, something that should be there. And the same goes for the religious bigot who aggressively conveys words or actions against believers of other religions. Surely these two types cannot be on the high end of the intelligence spectrum.
And to suggest that all conservatives are of less intelligence seems to be unfounded unless one divides the conservatives into at least two types. In other words, to suggest that the wealthy and successful conservative businessman, who has created a huge empire via hard work and creative business decisions, is of deficient intelligence doesn’t make good sense to me. Perhaps these types are of the conservative bent not as a consequence of deficient general intelligence, but simply because they want to sit on what they have, to keep things the same because the current scenario has been good to them. They are watching out for what they have, and thus, conservatism.
But to suggest, as the Brock University study seems to indicate, that perhaps some of the non-wealthy conservatives might lack on the average some measure of general intelligence might carry some weight. In my opinion, one’s tendency to be of the conservative bent, could be either a result of one’s lack of ability to perceive and digest some of the complexities involved in arriving at good or correct opinions, which is a condition perhaps related to a lack of general intelligence, or simply as a result of one’s lack of education.
You actually thought your IQ was around 400? woooooooo, explains why I get so little money when I sell my books at your store
Thank you Ocklawaha for the response you made earlier. It said pretty much everything I wanted to say on this subject.
Sometimes I see certain threads here and only think "trolling". (in other words, provocative, divisive) ;) And I don't like to jump in on them as I may get a little too intense, and I know I'll likely meet more of you wonderful people someday.
I will add is that in general, there are people who are both conservative and liberal who tend to be intelligent and thoughtful and have good things to say. They should listen to each other more.
Post From Civil428906
"You actually thought your IQ was around 400? woooooooo, explains why I get so little money when I sell my books at your store."
No. I assumed that anyone reading my claim would know, because of the ridiculous number, that it was in total jest. But..... I had thought, before seeing the curve posted, that the top of the curve went to around 200 instead of 145 or so. Of course, the intelligence and I.Q. concepts are rather awkward and tricky. Therefore, I don't put much thought into them.
Quote from: ronchamblin on February 07, 2012, 07:57:25 PM
Post From Civil428906
Of course, the intelligence and I.Q. concepts are rather awkward and tricky. Therefore, I don't put much thought into them.
Yes they are. Applying them to those in a any particular group or political party or race is even more awkward and tricky... and dangerous...
The only thing IQ score can predict is likelihood of success in academics. The correlation there is quite tight. What it does not seem to predict is success in life no matter if you measure it in money, longevity, or marriage stability.
I have known Mensa members who could not hold any job other than taxi driver and a millionaire construction contractor who wasn't very bright or well educated outside his profession, but methodical, careful and absolutely trustworthy.