A Marketing Plan for Downtown Revitalization
(http://photos.metrojacksonville.com/photos/1493784604_tKChTFt-M.jpg)
The Jacksonville Regional Chamber of Commerce's marketing plan for downtown revitalization. Is the chamber on the right path or are they making downtown revitalization more complicated than it has to do be?
Full Article
http://www.metrojacksonville.com/article/2012-jan-a-marketing-plan-for-downtown-revitalization
Very interesting plan. A little note to the the original posters of the article, after page 8, they are out of sequence.
Thanks. I went and corrected that.
"I am Downtown" If "I'm allowed to participate!"
Who wants to go kayaking and fishing under the brand new no fishing signs that extend from Berkman all the way through the Entertainment District?
Is this the same Penny Thompson that is on the Jacksonville Waterways Commission? The new no fishing signs were not before Waterways. Why?
Sidney Gefen Park! I'll promote that Downtown Destination River Activity location with a banner and ENTHUSIASM so we can all say
"I am Downtown"
Catch phrases & marketing. Yeah, that's how to do it.... ;)
It seems like this is a never ending cycle. "Insert Group Name Here", takes a trip to "Insert City Name Here", to explore how they have resurrected their downtown. Group comes back, puts together a white paper to justify these trips and then nothing happens.
You can study cities for years and years but if you don't actively do anything about whatever research you're gathering, it's meaningless. Though marketing definitely is an important aspect of 'selling' Downtown to suburban Jacksonville residents, I agree with roadking's snarky reply above. There has to be more to the plan than that.
Quote from: comncense on January 23, 2012, 08:32:50 AM
It seems like this is a never ending cycle. "Insert Group Name Here", takes a trip to "Insert City Name Here", to explore how they have resurrected their downtown. Group comes back, puts together a white paper to justify these trips and then nothing happens.
You can study cities for years and years but if you don't actively do anything about whatever research you're gathering, it's meaningless. Though marketing definitely is an important aspect of 'selling' Downtown to suburban Jacksonville residents, I agree with roadking's snarky reply above. There has to be more to the plan than that.
This is true. These Chamber trips are a joke. A bunch of lip service and no action.
^Could this stem from simply not really knowing what to do in regards to turning helping turn downtown around? Thus, the tendency to over complicate the issue? Personally, based on my travels and research over the years, I'm still of the opinion that we tend to make urban redevelopment more complicated than it has to be, especially when it comes to downtown.
I believe the most effective method is to "get out of the way" and let the free market take control. By this, I mean less to little focus on attracting suburbanites and more towards modifying public policy and regulations to allow businesses to succeed and natural creativity to happen. When you allow innovation, creativity, and small scale urban pioneer oriented investment to happen within a compact area great organic things tend to happen.
From a public investment standpoint, try focusing on downtown from the pedestrian scale and historic perspective. For nearly a century it served as the central business district for a dense collection of urban core neighborhoods all woven together with mass transit and human scale development. Perhaps instead of focusing on raising $100-$150 million for something like a convention center, waterfront theme park, or filling the riverfront with waterfront residential, we should get back to the basics and invest $50 million or less on a fixed transit system that actually reconnects our dense residential neighborhoods back with the CBD? How about preserving the remaining historic building stock, which gives small scale investors more opportunities at being a part of the revitalization process while also preserving the neighborhood's sense of place and culture in the process? What about building upon the preservation of human scale building fabric by not allowing bland autocentric building facades and site layouts within the area you claim to want to be vibrant and walkable? In addition, while we may not be able to incentivize a Macys, Whole Foods, or some big name chain immediately to the core, we can create and stimulate more foot traffic instantly by focusing on affordable methods to better integrate and expose existing businesses and buildings to the sidewalks they face.
I'll admit, this view towards downtown around isn't sexy and won't get suburbanites remotely interested as the ribbon cuttings of many failed expensive one-trick ponies that have been proposed throughout the decades but recent history in peer communities has shown that it works. When you have a vibrant self sustaining organic fueled urban community, its vibe with be all the marketing the city needs to attract suburbanites to downtown.
@ comncense
Exactly. Its "The same soup warmed over" we have to digest. Never any immediate change. Weak.
I'm over simplifying this but a way I see Downtown revitalizing itself in terms of increasing residents is to offer below average rent/hosing costs. It has to be below what it costs to live in Riverside where they have a grocery store, restaurants, bars, etc...
Downtown needs to realize it's not only competing with the suburbs, but Riverside, San Marco and Springfield which are in the immediate surrounding area and offer cheaper housing with better amenities.
Free parking anywhere and everywhere; that's the single scariest issue to suburban companies, besides maybe the percieved commute.
If a marketing group is created to promote downtown i hope they consider including people from san marco pres, spar and rap in their group. The 3 neighborhoods are important to the perception of downtown and important in attracting their residents to downtown for business and functions. Who ever does the marketing for mysanmarco, myspringfield and riversideavondale websites needs to be involved because those all do a good job selling their neighborhoods and living close to downtown. They probably do it for less than what City of Jacksonville would spend on it too.
While it gets tiresome to hear about all these ideas that never come to fruition, I'm of the opinion that a real marketing plan is a legit strategy. The goal should not be "attracting suburbanites", it should be PROMOTION. Getting people thinking about what you're selling where they weren't before, and making the product more part of the conversation. I think most of us would agree that downtown is under promoted. As someone who works in that field, this stuff works better than a lot of people think.
And I don't see it as incompatible with thelakelander's small-scall organic investments. In fact, I see it as another small-scale investment that we're not doing enough of.
Quote from: John P on January 23, 2012, 09:57:19 AM
If a marketing group is created to promote downtown i hope they consider including people from san marco pres, spar and rap in their group. The 3 neighborhoods are important to the perception of downtown and important in attracting their residents to downtown for business and functions. Who ever does the marketing for mysanmarco, myspringfield and riversideavondale websites needs to be involved because those all do a good job selling their neighborhoods and living close to downtown. They probably do it for less than what City of Jacksonville would spend on it too.
I definitely agree. We need to sell the whole urban package. Downtown proper struggles, but Riverside and San Marco, and slightly further neighborhoods like Avondale, Fairfax, and St. Nicholas thrive. We need to change the perception that downtown is a failing, isolated enclave and get folks - including people who live there themselves to see the whole area as a united organic core.
^Promoting the "urban core" isn't a bad idea.
It all depends on how well they run the marketing campaign. Marketing works, it motivates people even if they do not know it. Downtown has an image problem as well as more tangible problems. The image problem needs tending to as well as the actual environment.
Quote from: TPC on January 23, 2012, 09:40:40 AM
I'm over simplifying this but a way I see Downtown revitalizing itself in terms of increasing residents is to offer below average rent/hosing costs. It has to be below what it costs to live in Riverside where they have a grocery store, restaurants, bars, etc...
Downtown needs to realize it's not only competing with the suburbs, but Riverside, San Marco and Springfield which are in the immediate surrounding area and offer cheaper housing with better amenities.
Yeah I think at this point most places downtown cost above $1,000 a month to rent for a decent sized place. Metropolitan Lofts, The Carling, 11 E, The Strand... You can live just about anywhere in Jax for what places there run really.
While I don't think we need to pander to the suburbinites, I think it is important to stress the reasons WHY downtown is so important to our city and our region. I liked Ed Burr's quote in the article. The problem with most people in our city is that they don't get that even though they don't go out downtown and they only show up there for jury duty, downtown is important to them. If we are going to invest in downtown, it's going to take some money. People usually like to know what their money is going towards.
If they can't understand why downtown is important after it is clearly presented to them, then I suggest they move to Starke. Ironically, Starke's downtown is AWESOME and very well done for its size.
Quote from: Captain Zissou on January 23, 2012, 12:44:56 PM
Ironically, Starke's downtown is AWESOME and very well done for its size.
um...no
now cities like Alachua, High Springs, Green Cove Springs, and Fernandina Beach maybe
Quote from: Captain Zissou on January 23, 2012, 12:44:56 PM
While I don't think we need to pander to the suburbinites, I think it is important to stress the reasons WHY downtown is so important to our city and our region. I liked Ed Burr's quote in the article. The problem with most people in our city is that they don't get that even though they don't go out downtown and they only show up there for jury duty, downtown is important to them. If we are going to invest in downtown, it's going to take some money. People usually like to know what their money is going towards.
If they can't understand why downtown is important after it is clearly presented to them, then I suggest they move to Starke. Ironically, Starke's downtown is AWESOME and very well done for its size.
Exactly. Though I think the issue's even bigger than that - there are far too many people that simply aren't thinking about downtown, at all. It's just not part of the conversation. Successfully promoting downtown and all its amenities and opportunities would help change that. Yes, there are a lot of people who are going to be antagonistic no matter what, but others won't be. When people are talking about where to start a business, find a home, spend an entertainment dollar, etc, downtown needs to be part of that conversation, and right now it's really not for too much of the population.
I guess my problem with the "teach suburbanites why downtown is important" is this isn't Jacksonville specific issue. The majority of suburbanites don't go to downtown Miami, Orlando and a host of other cities either. However, they've still been successful in building up their cores as self sustainable neighborhoods.
What is Jacksonville specific is our inability to not allow poor pedestrian scale development from being approved in DT (ex. JTA Greyhound terminal design). What is Jacksonville specific is our inability to foster a pedestrian scale environment were buildings interact with the streets sidewalks surrounding them (ex. Everbank Center, BOA, Wells Fargo Center, Landing, etc.). What is Jacksonville specific is our inability to provide decent and respectable mass transit options in the center of our urban core. These are the types of things that separate us from the haves and have nots. No amount of money thrown to marketing a dud of an urban environment is going to overcome these ills.
At the end of the day, the best form of marketing is an atmosphere that features the amenities and vibrancy desired. Imo, you can't there tricking people with slick campaigns as the major focus. One trip in, one discovers its not what is being promoted and that person never comes back. Eventually, you've got to roll up your sleeves and get to work actually moving forward with and implementing things that create the atmosphere you want to sell.
QuoteAt the end of the day, the best form of marketing is an atmosphere that features the amenities and vibrancy desired. Imo, you can't there tricking people with slick campaigns as the major focus. One trip in, one discovers its not what is being promoted and that person never comes back. Eventually, you've got to roll up your sleeves and get to work actually moving forward with and implementing things that create the atmosphere you want to sell.
I agree with this. What I meant in my post is that the city would be making capital investments in downtown and working to building a downtown worth marketing, and for that they would need to spend money. Since the misers in Mandarin will undoubtedly complain, there should be materials in place to explain why the city's investment in the core is crucial to the viability of Mandarin and the NE FL region. However, this is assuming the capital investments are well utilized and done correctly.
^True. I was just clarifying my initial post.
Quote from: tufsu1 on January 23, 2012, 01:24:15 PM
Quote from: Captain Zissou on January 23, 2012, 12:44:56 PM
Ironically, Starke's downtown is AWESOME and very well done for its size.
um...no
now cities like Alachua, High Springs, Green Cove Springs, and Fernandina Beach maybe
Tufsu, have you been to the historic downtown Starke?? I'm not referring to the part along 301 (though I'm not sure why you don't love that area, it's got all your favorites. They've got a Sonny's, a Hardee's, a Burger King, a CVS..... I know they don't have a hooter's, but let's not be too greedy). There is an area about 3 blocks from the Sonny's that has brick streets lined with historic homes, a row of pedestrian scaled shops, a boutique historic movie theater, and a number of cool businesses. I would say it is larger than Alachua's downtown. I agree that High Springs has a very cool downtown for a town its size.
QuoteWhat is Jacksonville specific is our inability to not allow poor pedestrian scale development from being approved in DT (ex. JTA Greyhound terminal design). What is Jacksonville specific is our inability to foster a pedestrian scale environment were buildings interact with the streets sidewalks surrounding them (ex. Everbank Center, BOA, Wells Fargo Center, Landing, etc.). What is Jacksonville specific is our inability to provide decent and respectable mass transit options in the center of our urban core. These are the types of things that separate us from the haves and have nots. No amount of money thrown to marketing a dud of an urban environment is going to overcome these ills.
We need some new blood in terms of leadership. It seems like we continue to have the same people recycled into new positions. I think ineffective leadership (JTA, for example) is a major culprit into why downtown has stagnated and regressed.
Quote from: Captain Zissou on January 23, 2012, 02:30:06 PM
Quote from: tufsu1 on January 23, 2012, 01:24:15 PM
Quote from: Captain Zissou on January 23, 2012, 12:44:56 PM
Ironically, Starke's downtown is AWESOME and very well done for its size.
um...no
now cities like Alachua, High Springs, Green Cove Springs, and Fernandina Beach maybe
Tufsu, have you been to the historic downtown Starke?? I'm not referring to the part along 301 (though I'm not sure why you don't love that area, it's got all your favorites. They've got a Sonny's, a Hardee's, a Burger King, a CVS..... I know they don't have a hooter's, but let's not be too greedy). There is an area about 3 blocks from the Sonny's that has brick streets lined with historic homes, a row of pedestrian scaled shops, a boutique historic movie theater, and a number of cool businesses. I would say it is larger than Alachua's downtown. I agree that High Springs has a very cool downtown for a town its size.
Wonder how the Starke bypass idea that's been kicked around would effect its downtown. Probably not well.
^ It would probably help their historic downtown. 301 already bypasses their downtown. A bypass of the entire city would cause many of the fast food places that depend on the through traffic to shut down. That could allow for some mom and pop's to open in the historic area and benefit from decreased competition from the chains.
Quote from: thelakelander on January 23, 2012, 02:11:48 PM
I guess my problem with the "teach suburbanites why downtown is important" is this isn't Jacksonville specific issue. The majority of suburbanites don't go to downtown Miami, Orlando and a host of other cities either. However, they've still been successful in building up their cores as self sustainable neighborhoods.
What is Jacksonville specific is our inability to not allow poor pedestrian scale development from being approved in DT (ex. JTA Greyhound terminal design). What is Jacksonville specific is our inability to foster a pedestrian scale environment were buildings interact with the streets sidewalks surrounding them (ex. Everbank Center, BOA, Wells Fargo Center, Landing, etc.). What is Jacksonville specific is our inability to provide decent and respectable mass transit options in the center of our urban core. These are the types of things that separate us from the haves and have nots. No amount of money thrown to marketing a dud of an urban environment is going to overcome these ills.
At the end of the day, the best form of marketing is an atmosphere that features the amenities and vibrancy desired. Imo, you can't there tricking people with slick campaigns as the major focus. One trip in, one discovers its not what is being promoted and that person never comes back. Eventually, you've got to roll up your sleeves and get to work actually moving forward with and implementing things that create the atmosphere you want to sell.
I think you're thinking about it the wrong way. Yes, we need to do all those things you're talking about. But successful promotion will make that task easier overall, and should be part of the process from the get go. I don't have figures, but I'll virtually guarantee you that Miami and Orlando have done proportionally much more promotion for their downtowns than we've done in Jacksonville for a long time.
It's really not about "converting the suburbanites" or about tricking anyone with a slick campaign, it's about, well, promotion. Having more people aware and invested will make the other tasks easier. As one example, I'll go out on a limb and say something like the new Greyhound design would not have flown if more people were simply aware of what was going on.
In that light, I can see your point. It's just unfortunate we have to invest significant dollars/time on promotion to get leaders to apply sound, proven, and easy to implement urban principles which breed organic vibrancy.
Quote from: Captain Zissou on January 23, 2012, 02:41:58 PM
^ It would probably help their historic downtown. 301 already bypasses their downtown. A bypass of the entire city would cause many of the fast food places that depend on the through traffic to shut down. That could allow for some mom and pop's to open in the historic area and benefit from decreased competition from the chains.
I would doubt it. Mom and Pops also depend on traffic to thrive just as fast food restaurants do. I don't think less people around would help. Look at how the opening of I-95 killed a lot of commercial along US1.
I don't think US301 bypasses its current downtown either. It is only a couple of blocks away. Not really a bypass.
Starke's downtown would be helped by a 301 bypass...are you kidding Zissou? All that would happen is the commerce on nearby 301 would move out...and fewer people would come downtown at all.....Thomasville, GA is a good example.
and yes, I've been to Starke's awesome downtown...I often arrive in Starke from the east on SR 230 (or the slight jog onto SR 100)...the heart of their downtown on Call Street is all of 3 blocks long (about 750')
as for Alachua, we went through there the other day...the core of their downtown on Main Street is about the same length...but there's another 2 blocks on each side of the core blocks that also have life....and what's there is far cooler than anything Starke has.
As for promotion... what will we promote (The great and wonderful diversity of bums?). I can understand a city like Vegas or NY promoting because they have something to promote, but is this the best use of money and resources. Don't get me wrong. We might get a group that could shoot a post apocalyptic movie down there. This city is conservative because officials spend lots of money to do something with good intention, but done wrong. Maybe the city should find out why companies choose to locate outside of the core. Tackle that problem/ fix that problem/ and people will be down there- at least first to work. Shops will locate down there- just like in the southside. Then people will move down there to be closer to work and amenities. What regulations, prices, what ever keeps companies away?
We can market what is developing in downtown. There is an emerging restaurant nightclub scene, highrise apartments, Jaguars, artwalk, festivals, ect and it is in the center of town convenient to the core neighborhoods with quick access to the interstate.
^If packaged with the urban core, there's a ton of existing assets that can be promoted. For example, how many people know that our historic farmer's market is the only one in Florida open seven days of week year round? How many people know that the Karpeles Manuscript Library is the World's largest private collection of important original manuscripts and documents? Do people really know that Five Points and San Marco are closer to the Landing than Tinseltown to SJTC?
Jax's urban core is a pretty interesting place with a load of amenities that are simply ignored or unknown to most. However, marketing (in general) should be a secondary or complementary effort to actually doing something to improve the conditions of the existing environment.
The urban core neighborhoods and Downtown participate in a form of this, promoting their local small businesses via the GoLo movement: www.golojax.com. A more holistic approach would be interesting.
[quote author=Captain Zissou
If they can't understand why downtown is important after it is clearly presented to them, then I suggest they move to Starke. Ironically, Starke's downtown is AWESOME and very well done for its size.
[/quote]
Careful about those comments,assumptions.
That is exactly what so many have done,moved out or never did move in.......
Quote from: tufsu1 on January 23, 2012, 03:30:07 PM
and yes, I've been to Starke's awesome downtown...I often arrive in Starke from the east on SR 230 (or the slight jog onto SR 100)...the heart of their downtown on Call Street is all of 3 blocks long (about 750')
Hooray!!! Another Tufsu posting inconsistency!! So you assert that Starke's downtown is only the 3 block strip of businesses and movie theater but not the historic homes, businesses, and brick streets in the immediate 5 block vicinity, but Jacksonville's downtown (to generate your employment number of 50,000+) is the Northbank, Southbank, stadium area, Brooklyn, and fringe areas of Riverside and Springfield???? Hilarious.
Wow Zissou...you're beginning to parse words like somebody else
Note that I said "the heart of their downtown" is 3 blocks long.....in Jax parlance, that would be equivalent to talking about the northbank core....and while all of downtown (including Brooklyn, La Villa, stadium/courthouse area, and Southbank) may have had 50,000 employees a few years ago, the core was around 18,000.
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Hi all. Been awhile since I've posted anything here, and perhaps this isn't the right thread. And maybe this topic has already been discussed. But I was riding (a bike...dangerous as that is) around Downtown and Southbank the other day and finally took notice that the Trailblazer signage that was installed, at about the same time the Gator Bowl became Jacksonville Municipal Stadium, is so weather-beaten as to be a.) unreadable, and b.) embarrassing to our City. These signs were intended to help visitors find their way around, and to provide a tiny bit of design continuity to the Downtown streetscape. The message they send today is that we don't have our eye on the ball when it comes to the details of periodic maintenance of our infrastructure, and that as much as we like to talk about image, we really don't care much about how that image is articulated. That's how I read it anyway. Is someone on this issue?
Stephen Dare speaking with Rich Jones on WOKV's morning show about Downtown
http://www.wokv.com/Player/101229811/
Marketing effort aims to bring people to Downtown Jacksonville (http://www.firstcoastnews.com/topstories/article/266076/483/Marketing-effort-aims-to-bring-people-downtown?odyssey=tab%7Ctopnews%7Cbc%7Clarge)
"Private money has been raised to launch a marketing effort to bring more people downtown to enjoy the activities and restaurants.
Several groups with a vested interest in downtown like Downtown Vision, the Chamber of Commerce, Visit Jacksonville, JTA, the Jacksonville Jaguars, and Civic Council are among a group that have formed a downtown marketing council. They have raised $135,000 to market downtown and bring more people downtown. The Urban Land Institute and NAIOP, a commercial real estate association are also contributors."
"Downtown Vision is hoping to raise $170,000 in private money to add to the marketing effort. One of the first things the council did was start a website called digdowntownjax.com to bring attention to the events and restaurants downtown."
I would like to see a "Public/Private" partnership.