Metro Jacksonville

Juror parking at new courthouse unresolved
The Times-Union

When Jacksonville’s new courthouse opens in May, it’s unclear where the several hundred jurors streaming into it each day will park.

City Hall and the Clerk of Courts Office have been wrangling over the issue, which must be resolved several weeks before the grand opening. Summons for the jurors include parking instructions and will have to be reprinted depending on what system is set up.

Jurors now park at lots near EverBank Field and are bused to the current courthouse. However, the Jacksonville Transportation Authority â€" which runs that shuttle â€" has said it has problems with continuing to do so once the new courthouse is opened, said Clerk of Courts Jim Fuller. JTA hasn’t been clear as to why it doesn’t want to continue the current system, but has said it will provide the courts with surplus buses if Fuller wants to oversee the shuttle program

Fuller’s suggestion: Have jurors park in the nearby garage on Pearl Street for free, something the city is allowed to ask of the garage’s management company.

“I didn’t think it was going to be this complicated,” said Fuller, who said whatever system is put in place must be free for jurors. Dade County is the only county in the state that charges jurors for parking, he said.

“We’re calling someone down to do a civic duty. We’re making them come,” he said. “I don’t think it’s right to force someone to come downtown and then make them pay.”

But allowing parking for free is an untenable idea, the city says.

Under Jacksonville’s deal with the garage owners, the city lends the company money to cover losses the company incurs, sending it about $16 million over the past five years.

Those parking structures are supposed to begin operating in the black once the courthouse opens, though, and the city will start being paid back. That makes the administration loath to give up the money it would earn by providing free spots.

“These parking garages have to be sustainable,” said Karen Bowling, the city’s deputy chief administrative officer. “That’s the intent for all the garages.”

The goal, said city parking commissioner Jack Shad, is for the garages to have no empty spaces, so any free spots would cut directly into the bottom line.

The other option on the table, put there by JTA, is to modify the current system by having Fuller’s office handle the shuttles from EverBank Field.

In a letter JTA sent to the clerk’s office, it offered to provide surplus buses if the courts hired the drivers and paid for fuel, insurance and other costs.

That idea doesn’t work, Fuller said. “I don’t have the people or the manpower or the facilities,” he said. “Why would they even bring that up?”

Spokeswoman Shannon Eller would say only that “JTA is in the development stage of a comprehensive parking and transportation program for the new courthouse area. Juror parking is a part of that overall program but we are still in the planning phase and nothing is final.”

With the courts, city government and JTA at loggerheads, the only thing certain is that some sort of decision has to be made in the next three months or so.

Come May, some 600 jurors â€" several hundred more than are now called, because of a larger number of courtrooms â€" will show up for the first day of jury duty. Before deciding on guilt or innocence, they’ll have to figure out where to leave their cars.




http://jacksonville.com/news/metro/2012-01-21/story/juror-parking-new-courthouse-unresolved

Okay, some questions:

1. Is it not hard to believe there is not even a mention about the Skyway? 
Wow in my opinion. Isn't the reason for the Skyway to shuttle people in downtown rather than buses?   

2. Kings Avenue garage?  There was a time when the Skyway rode from Kings Avenue Garage up to FSCJ (it did not turn-around at Central).  Is it not possible to run the route that way again given the new ridership numbers and demand if Kings Avenue is used for jurors? Central is not far (although, not to be mean, Americans like to be dropped at the door).  Hemming is very close to the new courthouse.   

3. Does every juror have to park in the same place?  Can't you give two or three options (i.e., instructions to Kings Avenue and instructions to Everbank Field (or whatever)?  It seems the JTA doesn't want to go crazy in providing bus services for the court anymore.  Maybe they'll run a smaller amount?   

Are we trying to ruin the Skyway? 

Kings Ave garage was my first thought too.  Also what about Prime Osborne or something else in LaVilla?

Are they just now thinking about this problem?  Typical of the whole mess that this courthouse has been from the beginning; one short-sighted thing after another.

I was thinking the JTA/City property in LaVilla - much closer to the new Court House than Everbank.   But the Kings Garage/Skyway makes a lot of sense, too - although it would not proved front-door service to the new CH - 3 blocks from Hemming Plaza, about 4 1/2 from Central.

Is the Clerk paying JTA for the current Monday-only Juror Shuttle?  Maybe that money could pay for parking in the Court House garage?  What is the capacity of the CH Garage?  How does the capacity of the Court House garage compare to the 600 jurors descending every upon it Monday morning?

Sounds like a big mess that stems from continued poor planning of downtown.  Its really crazy to get this far along on a nearly $500 million project and still not have all the major planning bugs worked out.  I also see something wrong with the city investing in a garage in DT to "make money" but that's a topic for another day.  At this point, I agree with the other posts in that the Skyway/Kings Avenue garage/COJ Lavilla land should be viewed as potential solutions to the problem.

^the plan since the beginning - since before the courthouse became a badly designed debacle - was always to continue using the shuttle from the stadium. What's happened is that JTA has now decided they don't want to continue doing it anymore. All well and good, but who knows why they picked now to decide that.

Out of all the various options, the king street garage/skyway option makes a ton of sense. The big issue with juror parking is that they need to cover several hundred people on Monday, and only a fraction of that the other days, as most don't get selected. Having them use King Street ought to take care of them without taking up hundreds of spots at the downtown garage that would only be used one day.

Of course none of that would be a problem if the skyway went to the stadium already.

And now this.....http://jacksonville.com/news/metro/2012-01-25/story/city-looks-trim-4-million-new-duval-courthouse

I tell ya, this thing just will not go away. What an absolute debacle. Put the jurors on the Skyway and be done with that issue. It's a no brainer. I am really begin to believe there is a "true" Skyway conspiracy going on in this city. Anybody remember the streetcar conspiracy theories?

Even if you just miss the train, at most it takes 15 minutes to get from the Kings Avenue garage to Hemming Plaza on the Skyway.  The garage sits 90% empty on most days, so giving away space for free wouldn't be an issue.  The Skyway is going to run that route regardless, so there is no extra fuel cost.  And except for when they are doing maintenance, the route from Kings Avenue does go all the way to FSCJ, so they wouldn't have to transfer at Central Station.

Now, can we ask people to walk 3 blocks?  Well, another good reason for keeping Monroe Street closed and having more sidewalk storefronts between the two locations.

An added feature would be introducing more people to how simple it is to ride the Skyway into downtown, particularly now that it is free.

The only losers with this scenerio would be those who are determined to see the Skyway flounder.

^Yes, not to mention that it's unlikely to be much slower than the shuttle they're already using to transport the jurors from the sports complex lots. Anyone who wants to park closer and is willing to pay for it will still be able to do that.

Using the King Street garage and the Skyway makes all the sense in the world. As I've said before, if the Skyway only went to the sports complex, we'd never be hearing about this. The jurors would be parking in those lots and taking the Skyway to the courthouse without the JTA having to run a shuttle. In lieu of that, using other easily available parking connected to a transit line we're already running anyway sounds open and shut.

It would be a shame if our officials get so worried about having to settle paying for this new parking that they just default to using the EverBank lot, and then just pass the buck of running the shuttle. Guess who ultimately gets stuck with that bill.

From Downtown Vision, Inc.'s Downtown Update:

Quote
New Courthouse Parking Information

The Jacksonville Bar Association recently hosted a presentation on parking options for the new courthouse.

Four vendors made presentations at the event:

MPS Parking offers parking at the the garage directly across the street from the new courthouse. The daily rate is a tentative maximum of $10 or a monthly rate of $85.60. Monthly reserved parking and valet parking will be available for $145 and $200, respectively.

The City of Jacksonville offers parking in the Water Street garage and the Ed Ball Building garage, both at a rate of $1 per hour up to a maximum daily rate of $6.96. The monthly rate for the Water Street garage is $50 and $80 at the Ed Ball garage.

UPark, of First Baptist Church, offers courthouse parking at the Beaver and Pearl Street garage for $35 a month. There is no daily rate.

JTA is offering a courthouse Park-and-Ride program where commuters can park at the King Street garage or the Convention Center Skyway Station. Commuters can then ride the Skyway to Hemming Plaza or take a direct-route trolley service to the new courthouse. The cost is $35 a month.

The current county courthouse is scheduled to close Friday, May 18, at 5 p.m., and the new courthouse will open Monday, May 29. Demolition has begun for improvements to the former Federal Courthouse building, which will house the State Attorney's Office.

No mention of juror parking but the Kings Ave garage option looks promising.

JTA is a retarded and dysfunctional organization that should be tar-and-feathered.

-Josh

Good, if the Skyway park-and-rides are on the table for daily users, hopefully the same will be true for parking for the jurors.

I wonder if you could take this a step further:

Rename or share the Hemming Plaza stop name with "Government Center" and try to come to arrangements to offer Kings Avenue parking and Skyway services to county jurors, federal jurors, and city employees.  Kings Avenue garage is re-branded along the way.   

Bottom line is someone has to pay for the parking garages, so if you USE the courthouse, even as a public servant, you need to pay for the parking. Just jack up the reimbursement for jury duty to cover the cost.

We will pay for this one way or another. No need to hide the weenie here.

Quote from: mtraininjax on February 22, 2012, 02:46:19 PM
Bottom line is someone has to pay for the parking garages, so if you USE the courthouse, even as a public servant, you need to pay for the parking. Just jack up the reimbursement for jury duty to cover the cost.

We will pay for this one way or another. No need to hide the weenie here.

In terms of jury parking, that's not really it. Yes, we do have to pay for it ultimately, but it's a matter of how much to pay and for what. It's a choice between between free/almost free parking at EverBank Field but paying for a shuttle service; paying for more expensive parking nearer the courthouse (assuming there's even enough available in one place and the garages want to play ball) and having them walk; or paying for cheap parking and shuttling them in via the Skyway at no additional cost to the usual operation of the line.

I think Jdog's suggestion for daily workers is interesting. I don't know that many of them would want to drive to the King Street Garage just to park and spend 15 on the Skyway, but perhaps something could be worked out to reduce the cost for government employees.

QuoteIn terms of jury parking, that's not really it. Yes, we do have to pay for it ultimately, but it's a matter of how much to pay and for what. It's a choice between between free/almost free parking at EverBank Field but paying for a shuttle service; paying for more expensive parking nearer the courthouse (assuming there's even enough available in one place and the garages want to play ball) and having them walk; or paying for cheap parking and shuttling them in via the Skyway at no additional cost to the usual operation of the line.

Nope, that really is it, someone has to pay for it. The skyway will not be FREE forever, there will be a fee for using it as there should be for all public transportation, think of the fee as subsidization of the ride, or almost free. Hey if you are 65 it is free, so grow old quickly for free.

Shuttle service? Like waiting for a bus on the Sunflower line now? What about when it is summer and raining in the afternoon, and you could have parked for a flat rate across the street, but no, it was cheaper to wait in the rain for the bus to take you to your car a good 5-10 minutes down the road in the rain.

With 4-5 dollar fuel, you really cannot offer a free or nearly free option. Besides, people who have to be downtown would rather have their cars close to them for emergency use.

Quote from: mtraininjax on February 22, 2012, 04:50:21 PM

QuoteIn terms of jury parking, that's not really it. Yes, we do have to pay for it ultimately, but it's a matter of how much to pay and for what. It's a choice between between free/almost free parking at EverBank Field but paying for a shuttle service; paying for more expensive parking nearer the courthouse (assuming there's even enough available in one place and the garages want to play ball) and having them walk; or paying for cheap parking and shuttling them in via the Skyway at no additional cost to the usual operation of the line.

Nope, that really is it, someone has to pay for it. The skyway will not be FREE forever, there will be a fee for using it as there should be for all public transportation, think of the fee as subsidization of the ride, or almost free. Hey if you are 65 it is free, so grow old quickly for free.

Shuttle service? Like waiting for a bus on the Sunflower line now? What about when it is summer and raining in the afternoon, and you could have parked for a flat rate across the street, but no, it was cheaper to wait in the rain for the bus to take you to your car a good 5-10 minutes down the road in the rain.

With 4-5 dollar fuel, you really cannot offer a free or nearly free option. Besides, people who have to be downtown would rather have their cars close to them for emergency use.

You're argument assumes that all options cost the same. That's not the case here.