QuoteAbout noon on a typical weekday on East Bay Street between Market and Liberty streets, people are walking around, the parking spaces are taken and the lunch spots are in a full swing.
But with the Duval County Courthouse set to move from that location in May, some restaurant owners say their businesses may become casualties.
“We will be taking quite a big hit,†said Nader Oweis, general manager of What’s Good Downtown at the corner of Liberty. “I’m hoping it doesn’t hit us as bad as we’re expecting it to hit us.â€
What’s Good Downtown is one of the lunchtime successes in the immediate area that draws many of its customer base off the courthouse.
Oweis said when his mother bought the family-run eatery in August 2010, it had been explained to them that the move would not happen so soon.
Would they have bought the store knowing what they know now: “Probably not,†Oweis said.
full article: http://jacksonville.com/news/metro/2012-01-05/story/lunchtime-eateries-become-casualties-duval-courthouse-move
I'm surprised significant investments were made as late as 2010 and owners were not aware that the new courthouse would be complete in 2012. Plans were approved in 2008 and vertical construction was underway in 2009. 2012 has always been the completion date for this version of the courthouse. However, to answer the question of the article's title, yes these eateries will become casualties unless a replacement for the courthouse is found.
There are two circulator busses that traverse downtown - Riverside & Bay St Trolley, that should have no problem making the loop every 8 minutes or so during the peak 12 -2 lunch time. They're already really close to....
Nevermind.
This is quite odd. The move has been in the works for nearly 12 years, did they just expect it never to happen?
Im up in the air about his one. Because me personally, If there's a particular resturant I love that much downtown, I would just drive over there on lunch and grab a bite to eat. No problem. But for those without vehicles, I could see a problem getting all the way down to Bay Street.
Quote from: duvaldude08 on January 06, 2012, 11:30:27 AM
Im up in the air about his one. Because me personally, If there's a particular resturant I love that much downtown, I would just drive over there on lunch and grab a bite to eat.
THIS. This is the thought process that people need to get out of their heads.
Quote from: Non-RedNeck Westsider on January 06, 2012, 11:33:26 AM
Quote from: duvaldude08 on January 06, 2012, 11:30:27 AM
Im up in the air about his one. Because me personally, If there's a particular resturant I love that much downtown, I would just drive over there on lunch and grab a bite to eat.
THIS. This is the thought process that people need to get out of their heads.
Explain what you mean NRW.
The car-centric thinking that I have started to shy away from.
I know I can't speak for anyone but myself, but the 'great american dream' of living in the 'burbs with my own house and my own car, 2.3 kids and a dog is truly my parent's great american dream, it's not mine anymore, even though I'm somewhat living it. I'm married, have a decent sized home, 1 car, 1 kid & 2 dogs.
I'm far from the tree-hugging type, but I'm starting to see the unsustainability of the status quo, and the main culprit, imo, is the car and how powerless that most people become when they don't have one. I don't think that I'm ready to go completely car-less, but I don't drive during the week unless I have job meetings and have realized that it's not as bad as everyone thinks. I tend to plan my days better. I'm less spastic about when and where I have to be. I seem to be a lot less stressed than I used to be in general.
Quote from: Non-RedNeck Westsider on January 06, 2012, 03:41:44 PM
The car-centric thinking that I have started to shy away from.
I know I can't speak for anyone but myself, but the 'great american dream' of living in the 'burbs with my own house and my own car, 2.3 kids and a dog is truly my parent's great american dream, it's not mine anymore, even though I'm somewhat living it. I'm married, have a decent sized home, 1 car, 1 kid & 2 dogs.
I'm far from the tree-hugging type, but I'm starting to see the unsustainability of the status quo, and the main culprit, imo, is the car and how powerless that most people become when they don't have one. I don't think that I'm ready to go completely car-less, but I don't drive during the week unless I have job meetings and have realized that it's not as bad as everyone thinks. I tend to plan my days better. I'm less spastic about when and where I have to be. I seem to be a lot less stressed than I used to be in general.
OH! Well I was just speaking about the situation in general to make a point that people would still patronize the resturants if they really wanted to go. Im all against the auto mobiles myself. And I agree with you driving is actually very stressful.
Working downtown, I doubt most who make the move will walk or drive over there for a 30-60 minute lunch break on a regular basis. Driving is a hassle (you're taking your car out of your garage and then paying to park on the other side of DT) and walking burns into your limited lunch time (especially when there are several eateries you're passing to get there).
The uptown market does not appear to have a problem attracting downtown lunch business.
Free parking. Working downtown, IF i'm going to drive to lunch, it's typically less of a hassle for me to drive to Springfield, San Marco, or Five Points. That being said, just about the only time I'll drive to lunch is for meetings. Otherwise, I have a plethora of dining establishments within a block or two of my office...or I simply skip lunch altogether.
Btw, I may not be typical but a drive for me involves walking two blocks to a parking garage, circling five floors down to get out and when I eventually return, doing the same thing in reverse. Right off the bat, 10-15 minutes of my 60 minute lunch are already gone. I prefer to keep the truck in the garage from sun up to sun down and walk during the day to the hundreds of small businesses already in the Northbank (people will be amazed to see the number of options available that you can't see from the street).
^my experience with an internship at city hall was basically the same. Driving to lunch meant walking three blocks to my car (eating up time and risking losing my spot), driving to wherever and fighting for parking there, and then doing the same on the way back. I really never did it except special occasions. Walking several blocks just to grab a bite takes up a lot of time and really sucks in the summer, cold winter, and anytime it's raining, which is a pretty regular occurance in jax.
Maybe an option for the restaurants that are just outside the common walking distance would be to offer a delivery option. Although the eateries may be just far enough away that people don't want to walk or drive, they are close enough for bike deliveries to be successful. Weather permitting and if the food is good/unique enough, I'd be happy eating in a park or plaza near the court.
If I worked down there, I'd invest in a folding bike to get around down lunch/break times. Fun and useful.
QuoteIf I worked down there, I'd invest in a folding bike to get around down lunch/break times. Fun and useful.
What a great idea! Is it allowed to carry one on the bus or trolley-bus?
Too bad Wormans is gone for good.
This talk about not being able to handle walking from the new courthouse site to the old one is pretty comical - and a really good example of why we have an obesity crisis in our country (and more specifically, our city). I have a client I regularly visit near the existing courthouse. I usually take the skyway to Central Station and walk from there. It takes maybe 10 minutes each way. So if I am walking briskly, that is 20 minutes of exercise that I just got.
I agree, though, most of the people in Jacksonville would see that as too far. Or it is too hot. Or too cold. Or too wet. Or my life is so incredibly jammed with important events that I can't afford to spend some time just walking.
Quote from: dougskiles on January 07, 2012, 04:31:08 PM
This talk about not being able to handle walking from the new courthouse site to the old one is pretty comical - and a really good example of why we have an obesity crisis in our country (and more specifically, our city). I have a client I regularly visit near the existing courthouse. I usually take the skyway to Central Station and walk from there. It takes maybe 10 minutes each way. So if I am walking briskly, that is 20 minutes of exercise that I just got.
I agree, though, most of the people in Jacksonville would see that as too far. Or it is too hot. Or too cold. Or too wet. Or my life is so incredibly jammed with important events that I can't afford to spend some time just walking.
Yeah, kinda agree here. I usually (3+ days a week) walk from the old courthouse to Chew/Chamblin's area, while most of my peers won't follow because it's "too far" a walk.
In a lot of cases it's not so much the walking, it's the time. When you're on an hourly wage and/or have a limited amount of time for lunch, those minutes count. I have a friend living in Boston who walks or takes the T literally everywhere, but he doesn't go far out of his way on lunch, for that very reason.
^Bingo. My office is above Zodiac Grill. Most of the time, I don't buy lunch but on the days that I do, I rarely walk further than a block away because I want to soak up as much of those 60 minutes as possible. Lately, I've been calling in orders to spots like Zodiac Grill, picking them up and taking them back to my desk to maximize my lunch hour.
I've walked to Olio about three times since they opened. The food is great, but it puts me 30 minutes over my hour break. The one time I did it in the summer was a disaster. I was drenched in sweat when I got back to the office.
The idea of combining a little exercise by walking before and after eating a lunch really appeals to me, especially if I had to sit at a desk all day, but I do see the problem cramming it all in a short 45 minutes (my lunch break time) in Jacksonville's humidity.
I think that all this would be more possible if the lunch hour was a longer. Thinking about it that way, perhaps a longer lunch break could be healthier for the community as a whole. If it was a hour and half, the lunch options would be greater and exercise, trip to the library or MOCA would be possible...
I am liking the siesta concept more and more!
Thx DW. That's a good question.. I would think you could bring a folding bike on a bus or trolly. They're really no bigger than a suitcase.
Back in the 1990s, I worked as a temp for the Visiting Nurses Association in what is now the Metropolitan on Church Street. During my hour-long lunch, I had no problem with walking a few blocks to lunch and back. Having temped at various car-centric locations around Duval County, I considered myself lucky to work in a downtown setting and definitely took advantage of the pedestrian-friendly options for my lunch. The same applied to when I walked across the Acosta or Main Street bridges from my other temp job at Prudential on the Southbank.