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Community => Politics => Topic started by: williamjackson on January 04, 2012, 02:07:03 PM

Title: An Anointing Message To Fathers for 2012
Post by: williamjackson on January 04, 2012, 02:07:03 PM
An Anointing Message To Fathers for 2012
by William Jackson, M.Ed.

Going into the new year Pastors, Bishops, Apostles, Priests and
others of religious faiths should pray over all fathers. Now more than
ever in history do we need spiritual guidance, wisdom and protection.

As a father, educator and mentor, I want to inspire and motivate fathers, step-fathers,
grandfathers, fathers to be, divorced fathers and even absentee fathers, men who are
guardians: to be the best men their families, children, communities, and churches need.
Difficult times and many challenges are around us; spiritually, economically, educationally,
environmentally and politically.
As men we should be taking the lead in the direction to move to care for our loved ones,
our communities and supporting our churches. Fathers have a historical responsibility and
spiritual accountability to place our families above our personal needs. We cannot nor
should not be selfish in our love for family, devotion to God, giving to community and
mentoring to youth. These things as men we should pray and act on to improve ourselves.

1. Fathers, should go to Jesus in prayer and pray with their children and families. Leading
    prayer as the leader of the household.
2. Fathers, make mistakes, but own up to them and correct the mistakes they have made.
    Working not to repeat them and modeling responsibility.
3. Fathers, discipline their children with love and not with physical violence, verbal degradation
    or emotional manipulation.
4. Fathers, take their children/families to church and bible study to receive the Word of God
    and meditate on these words to empower, inspire and strengthen the family unit.
5. Fathers, are not perfect and should not try to be perfect, ask God for wisdom, direction and   
    discernment.
6. Fathers, don't blame others for their weakness, but work to strengthen themselves
    in the Word of God through prayer and reading of scripture.
7. Fathers, will not "follow the guys" when they are disrespecting women, this sets an
    inappropriate and dangerous model for their sons to follow.
8. Fathers, don't block their children's anointing with ungodly actions and modeling that may
    be repeated by their children as they mature into adults. 
9. Fathers, ask for discernment to recognize the signs of trouble, chaos and confusion
    before they happen.
10. Fathers, model respect for the spirit of the church and church representation.
11. Fathers, lead grace/prayer at meal time and anoint their children with oil.
12. Fathers, should be able to purchase their daughters personal items and be
     proud in doing so. Setting a standard of respect, pride and responsibility for the
     young lady he protects and loves.
13. Fathers, promote education in the household. Reading should come before video
     games, television or play time.
14. Fathers, talk to their children about drugs and sex before the street or television does.
15. Fathers, do not whine about what "HIS" daddy did not do for him, but follow a model
      indicative of Godly men and accountability.
16. Fathers, do not blame where he came from for his short-comings. He focuses on
      where he is going in a positive direction.
17. Fathers, takes time to visit their children's school and talk to teachers  about their
     children's progress, strengths, and challenges.
18. Fathers, will happily sacrifice for their family, showing how God’s love sacrificed
      for all of us.
19. Fathers, accept responsibility for their children's actions. Remembering that
      “the apple does not fall far from the tree.” Fathers recognize and work to stop
     generational curses so a new and positive direction is made for his children.
20. Fathers, will visit their children and spend time with them even though he
      may not be present in the home. A true father takes responsibility for a life that
      they helped create and a true mother/woman allows the father to do this and
      puts her feelings aside to allow a father to be a father.
21. Fathers, aren't afraid to show love to their children, children still need reinforcement
      that they are loved and respected by their father. Love cannot be bought, bartered,
      compromised, sold, exchanged. Love is a action word and actions speak louder than
      words.
22. Fathers, spend time just being together with their children and doing things their
      children like and will remember doing.
23. Fathers, teach your child to be responsible and accountable for their actions. Not to
      blame others for their actions or think they are owed anything. Respect is always
      earned.
24. Fathers must teach and model respect to women for their sons and respect to men
      by their daughters. Sex must be taken seriously not as a game, violence is not
     acceptable by men or women. Fathers must lead in the understanding of this.
25. Fathers must teach respect, honor, and fear of the Lord.

Quote:
A truly humble man is sensible of his natural distance from God; of his dependence
on Him; of the insufficiency of his own power and wisdom; and that it is by God's power
that he is upheld and provided for, and that he needs God's wisdom to lead and guide
him, and His might to enable him to do what he ought to do for Him.
Edwards, Jonathan
Title: Re: An Anointing Message To Fathers for 2012
Post by: Dog Walker on January 04, 2012, 02:38:43 PM
Right, teach your children to be afraid of a big, irrational, paranoid boogyman in the sky. 

Giving young children religious instruction of any kind should be considered child abuse.
Title: Re: An Anointing Message To Fathers for 2012
Post by: BridgeTroll on January 04, 2012, 03:14:08 PM
Quote from: Dog Walker on January 04, 2012, 02:38:43 PM

Giving young children religious instruction of any kind should be considered child abuse.

Really?!  Seems a bit extreme...

Title: Re: An Anointing Message To Fathers for 2012
Post by: Doctor_K on January 04, 2012, 03:29:20 PM
Quote from: Dog Walker on January 04, 2012, 02:38:43 PM
Right, teach your children to be afraid of a big, irrational, paranoid boogyman in the sky. 

Giving young children religious instruction of any kind should be considered child abuse.

So to all the Christians, Muslims, Jews, Mormons, Hindus, Taoists, Wiccans, polytheists, and Buddhists out there:

STOP THE ABUSE

;D
Title: Re: An Anointing Message To Fathers for 2012
Post by: Nightman_Cometh on January 04, 2012, 03:38:03 PM
Its definitely not extreme, religion teaches children from a young age to act different towards those who are different than you.
Title: Re: An Anointing Message To Fathers for 2012
Post by: buckethead on January 04, 2012, 04:36:35 PM
I thought the title was leading me to an anointing massage...


My bad.
Title: Re: An Anointing Message To Fathers for 2012
Post by: JeffreyS on January 04, 2012, 04:37:09 PM
Quote from: Nightman_Cometh on January 04, 2012, 03:38:03 PM
Its definitely not extreme, religion teaches children from a young age to act different towards those who are different than you.

Yes extreme things like feed the hungry, give shelter to the homeless, clothe the naked and such abusive lessons.

People are different and deserve to be treated individually. 
Title: Re: An Anointing Message To Fathers for 2012
Post by: AKIRA on January 04, 2012, 04:49:30 PM
ah, religious prejudice, one of the last prejudices acceptable left for the modern, thoughtful man.   

Instead of blaming a particular institution or allegiance for instilling the "fear of the other", the question should be what is inside every person's heart/mind that makes himself/herself so bent toward that fear, regardless of the person's politics, economics, country, politics, religion, etc...   or perhaps its just easier to blame the "boogyman in the sky" (or the belief in him) rather than look deeper.

Dog Walker and Nightman, would you be so general/obtuse in your statements toward the totality of religion if you were one of the city council people that interviewed Parvez Ahmed about his qualifications for the Human Rights Commission?  He has been introduced as a Muslim.  By your statements, his belief in Allah is a hindrance that would make his involvement in Human Rights issues a problem...
Title: Re: An Anointing Message To Fathers for 2012
Post by: Nightman_Cometh on January 04, 2012, 05:13:47 PM
AKIRA:  I could care less who he believe in, as long as they are passionate and work hard on the Human Rights Commission, I dont care who is on the council. 

JeffreyS: "extreme things like feed the hungry, give shelter to the homeless, clothe the naked and such abusive lessons"  You can do all those thing without being apart of religion.  YOU CAN LEARN MORALS, RESPECT AND WHEN TO DO THE RIGHT THING WITHOUT RELIGION!
Title: Re: An Anointing Message To Fathers for 2012
Post by: AKIRA on January 04, 2012, 06:09:16 PM
But Nightman, if his adherence to a religion means he has been taught "from a young age to act different towards those who are different than you" then how can he be "passionate and work hard" for the rights of all, not just his own folk?  Your statements means that he has to either rise above his own religious based prejudices to care about others or he doesn't...  perhaps it would have been best to stack the Human Rights Council with only atheists or agnostics, that way you could be ASSURED to have the fairest minded of people.

Nobody is making the statement that you can't learn proper behavior without religion.  The question is can you learn proper behavior from religion or does religious teaching equal exclusivism and child abuse.

This thread was started by someone calling fathers to better action.  I don't agree with everything he said but the comments making a blanket statement by finding fault in his overall faith and not offering anything other than the usual generalized, smart-alek one liners, seems more about making your own prejudice known that seeking a greater truth.

Title: Re: An Anointing Message To Fathers for 2012
Post by: AKIRA on January 04, 2012, 07:23:18 PM
Your spinning my words around, Stephen, to fit your own argument instead of responding to my statements as they were posted.

If there is a miscommunication, I'll restate.  I hate quoting myself, but I guess it needs to be done...

At no point have I promoted any particular religious belief as sound or lack of belief as unsound.  Going through a list of "crazy" beliefs does not argue against anything I posted, although I like your timely potential stab at the Church of the LDS considering Romney and Huntsman on the horizon..  a preview of your next political piece? 

My response about the statements made by DW and Nightman were not finding fault their possible unbelief.  How could I ever demand anyone to believe anything they find nonsensical?  I could not.  Nor did I find fault in them for not.

I find a fault in the statements they made, as I said when I typed "Dog Walker and Nightman, would you be so general/obtuse in your STATEMENTS toward the totality of religion....etc"  That entire sentence was an "if/then" statement, to boot.

Too review further, I stated in the same first post "that the question should be what is inside every person's heart/mind that makes himself/herself so bent toward that fear, regardless of the person's politics, economics, country, politics, ***religion***, etc... "  Have I any statements about any one belief or lack of belief system making them more or less hypocritical...?

I contend this, that we are all bent toward hypocrisy.  It is something deep in us as people, shown as it surfaces in people all across the globe, regardless of affiliation.  Blaming it on religion is taking the responsibility away from individuals.

The statements I take issue with I do because they are so broad, blunt and all assuming (and in that become prejudicial, since they are based on limited observation). Perhaps you would see the obtuseness in the statements is it were slightly changed:

"Its definitely not extreme, ________(religion, atheism, agonistic thought, communism, boy scouts, liberal thought, conservative though, socialism, capitalism, etc) teaches children from a young age to act different towards those who are different than you".

"Giving young children _______(same as above) instruction of any kind should be considered child abuse".

We should put priest and pastors in jail for child abuse?

Any other beliefs of people numbering in the billions that you would be comfortable making a simply, demeaning criticism of...?  Are not things more complicated that to be summed up in a single sentence?  I know its easier to see obtuseness in an statement when it involves people, beliefs, ways of life that you enjoy and harder when it concerns the "other".

I am surprised that you would accept such a broad and general statements alone without questioning that it may be at least over reaching, except for perhaps anything regarding the Tea Party (politics and religion, no he didn't!), pardon me, I mean the tea baggers... why miss the opportunity to assign a sexual context to someone to devalue them.. After all, they are all horrible people who deserve it.
Title: Re: An Anointing Message To Fathers for 2012
Post by: Dog Walker on January 04, 2012, 08:21:28 PM
Morality does not require religious belief.  Good people do not need to be frightened into behaving righteously.  Children can be taught right from wrong without scaring them with some vision of everlasting torment from some big daddy in the sky.

Abusing children by distorting their emerging awareness of reality doesn't rise to the level of criminality, just immorality.  Trying to make them believe in non-sensory things is cruel and handicapping.  Luckily, most children are resilient enough that it doesn't cripple their intellect permanently.  We all learn to compartmentalize.
Title: Re: An Anointing Message To Fathers for 2012
Post by: JeffreyS on January 04, 2012, 08:48:36 PM
Quote from: Nightman_Cometh on January 04, 2012, 05:13:47 PM
AKIRA:  I could care less who he believe in, as long as they are passionate and work hard on the Human Rights Commission, I dont care who is on the council. 

JeffreyS: "extreme things like feed the hungry, give shelter to the homeless, clothe the naked and such abusive lessons"  You can do all those thing without being apart of religion.  YOU CAN LEARN MORALS, RESPECT AND WHEN TO DO THE RIGHT THING WITHOUT RELIGION!
Sure you can but that isn't the way the world actually played out the religious taught the world morals that went beyond their religion.  We live in a western culture whose morals and laws are for the most part based on Judism and Christianity.  So when our country feels charity is important we have our religious  backgrounds to thank. 
Title: Re: An Anointing Message To Fathers for 2012
Post by: AKIRA on January 04, 2012, 11:12:18 PM
Stephen, I eagerly await a response that shows you actually read AND considered my previous response before your fingers went a flying on the keyboard.
Title: Re: An Anointing Message To Fathers for 2012
Post by: AKIRA on January 04, 2012, 11:35:35 PM
Show me were I called another commenter a name, plz?
Title: Re: An Anointing Message To Fathers for 2012
Post by: AKIRA on January 05, 2012, 04:27:45 AM
Hmm, arch and ironic, Stephen...?  Let's see.


I like how you put to my two statements together without adding the one I made in between them AND leaving most of the second statements out.  I guess if can't overcome by reason, then accusations and creative cut'n'paste are a good strategy, as well.  The concrete poetry school of debating? 

Now that practice combined with a lesson on the definition of bigotry is (sadly) ironic......



Anyway, who am I saying is obtuse?  Not who, but what.  The statements made.  But I guess we're in a place where criticism of a statement is equal to calling a name?  Is it all really so sensitive, so soft...?  Ouch!  Oh well, I guess it's not like I'm accusing them of over pricing their coffee or complaining unfairly about noisy bars.  Those being to true horrors of our time that the truth must rage on so violently, so wild. 

Now that was (a sad attempt at being) arch......



Title: Re: An Anointing Message To Fathers for 2012
Post by: BridgeTroll on January 05, 2012, 06:53:23 AM
DW said...

QuoteGiving young children religious instruction of any kind should be considered child abuse.

Since child abuse is criminal... I can only assume he (and apparently Stephen) believes religious instruction is a punishable criminal offense.  Most would find this extreme.  Most can also happily respect his atheism or agnosticism. 
Title: Re: An Anointing Message To Fathers for 2012
Post by: BridgeTroll on January 05, 2012, 08:11:39 AM
No conflation whatsoever.  DW said... "religious instruction of any kind" This is an absurdly general statement. Any kind of "instruction" can be abusive.  Sure... "abusive indoctrination" of children has been performed by many over the millenia.  Hitler was pretty famous for his form of abusive "instruction" of children.  The Khmer Rouge were pretty famous also.  Certain Madrasa's are currently abusing children.

My guess is DW does not really believe that religious instruction of any kind is child abuse... but something he, himself would never afford his children.  I am also quite sure that since religious freedom is one of the most basic tenants of our Constitution... DW would never think it would be a good idea to restrict this basic human right.
Title: Re: An Anointing Message To Fathers for 2012
Post by: BridgeTroll on January 05, 2012, 08:27:19 AM
Quoteex·ag·ger·ate   /ɪgˈzædʒəˌreɪt/  Show Spelled [ig-zaj-uh-reyt]  Show IPA verb, -at·ed, -at·ing. 
verb (used with object)
1. to magnify beyond the limits of truth; overstate; represent disproportionately: to exaggerate the difficulties of a situation.

QuoteGiving young children religious instruction of any kind should be considered child abuse.
Title: Re: An Anointing Message To Fathers for 2012
Post by: BridgeTroll on January 05, 2012, 08:36:20 AM
Quote from: stephendare on January 05, 2012, 08:30:13 AM
you will have to take that up with dogwalker, in the meantime, try not to conflate my opinion with your straw man argument about hitler, the khmer rouge, criminal religious instruction or assorted nonsense. ;)

Not even sure what your opinion is Stephen.  My only issue has been with DW's exagerrated, generalized, and over reaching statement that all religious instruction is child abuse.
Title: Re: An Anointing Message To Fathers for 2012
Post by: Dog Walker on January 05, 2012, 10:41:01 AM
In my view ANY teaching of a child that the supernatural is real is destructive to their growing awareness.  Be it the tooth fairy, santa claus, the easter bunny, jesus, monsters under the bed, ghosts.  Young children are just learning to separate the real from what is inside their heads.  Adding to their difficulties and fears is just wrong.

Why is not OK to tell a child that their are monsters under the bed that will eat them if they don't behave, but it is OK to tell a child that they must love an unseen ghost or burn in hell forever?  That's just evil.

I love reading fantasy and science fiction as much as anybody but am certainly old enough to know the difference between fiction and reality.  Young children don't have enough experience of life to make the distinction.
Title: Re: An Anointing Message To Fathers for 2012
Post by: buckethead on January 06, 2012, 09:01:29 AM
QuoteIn my view ANY teaching of a child that the supernatural is real is destructive to their growing awareness.  Be it the tooth fairy, santa claus, the easter bunny, jesus, monsters under the bed, ghosts.  Young children are just learning to separate the real from what is inside their heads.  Adding to their difficulties and fears is just wrong.

Why is not OK to tell a child that their are monsters under the bed that will eat them if they don't behave, but it is OK to tell a child that they must love an unseen ghost or burn in hell forever?  That's just evil.

I love reading fantasy and science fiction as much as anybody but am certainly old enough to know the difference between fiction and reality.  Young children don't have enough experience of life to make the distinction.
« Last Edit: Yesterday at 10:43:10 AM by Dog Walker »


http://www.youtube.com/v/su7_sztPTr8
Title: Re: An Anointing Message To Fathers for 2012
Post by: Gonzo on January 06, 2012, 10:01:15 AM
Quote from: Dog Walker on January 04, 2012, 02:38:43 PM
Right, teach your children to be afraid of a big, irrational, paranoid boogyman in the sky. 

Giving young children religious instruction of any kind should be considered child abuse.

For the most part, modern religions no longer portray God as wrathful or vengeful. Nor do they immediately espouse that a child will "burn in Hell," if they do not believe. Teaching religion to a child is teaching them to love and respect their fellow man, not to fear and loathe what is ahead.

Religion teaches charity, compassion, hope, respect, love, and tolerance. Sure, there are religious fanatics that still spout fire and brimstone. Absolutely there are misguided pastors that teach intolerance of other religions. But, while they are extremely vocal and tend to attract the limelight, they are by and far the minority.

As a father, my philosophy on religion was to provide a ground-work for my children. Present them with the central tenets of my religion. Give them a foundation in Christianity and reenforce that foundation through actions and words. We prayed before meals, attended church regularly, and they went to Catechism. They were baptized, had their first Holy Communion, and were confirmed. My children were taught, not force-fed religion. We regularly discussed other religions and their beliefs, how they differed from ours and how their dogma may or may not follow the will of God. Other religions were never bashed, they were discussed intellectually. And, when my children became adults, I stood back and let them make their own decisions.

It is my firm belief that everyone is entitled to their own decisions regarding their personal beliefs. But, those decisions should be made from a position of knowledge. Not from one of ignorance and prejudice. There are many that will rail on me because I am Catholic, just as many rail on Jews, Islams, and Baptists. But, are those who do that doing it from a position of knowledge or one of ignorance? Do they cast stones without deep soul-searching, without truly trying to understand another's beliefs? Or, do they believe that "since there is no God, no one should be exposed to the belief that there is."? If you are speaking from that position, you are as hypocritical to your own beliefs as you say the religious-minded are to theirs.

Our world is full of enough evil and strife. Those who are fanatical to their religion and those who are fanatically against religion. There are just as many evil people who were atheists and agnostics as there are those who are deeply religious. To label teaching children religion as child abuse is ludicrous at best and evil at worst with many shades in between.

If teaching children to love God, their fellow man, and the world is child abuse, then lock me up.
Title: Re: An Anointing Message To Fathers for 2012
Post by: JeffreyS on January 06, 2012, 10:04:24 AM
+ 1 Gonzo. 
Title: Re: An Anointing Message To Fathers for 2012
Post by: BridgeTroll on January 06, 2012, 11:08:59 AM
Well said Gonzo... :)
Title: Re: An Anointing Message To Fathers for 2012
Post by: Dog Walker on January 06, 2012, 11:52:19 AM
Quote25. Fathers must teach respect, honor, and fear of the Lord.


There it is right there.  That is what I'm addressing.  We take this phrase completely for granted because it is so often repeated.
Title: Re: An Anointing Message To Fathers for 2012
Post by: Gonzo on January 06, 2012, 12:24:27 PM
Quote from: Dog Walker on January 06, 2012, 11:52:19 AM
Quote25. Fathers must teach respect, honor, and fear of the Lord.


There it is right there.  That is what I'm addressing.  We take this phrase completely for granted because it is so often repeated.


I get you DW, and you are right, in some religions it is taught that way. But, by pulling that one phrase out of the entire message and automatically ascribing that to all religions, you show a prejudice towards the religious-minded. You have prejudged that all religions teach that way and therefor all religions are bad. And that is simply not true.

Religion has played a central role in the civilization of the world. The methods of the past were not always what we would currently term "Christian" or compassionate, but it is an inescapable fact that the world needed religion in order to develop. The problem of atheism is that it doesn't always recognize the good that was accomplished in the name of religion. And that is the only real fault I find in that belief. Jesus was a historical person. There are many anthropologists who will attest to that. As a Christian, I believe that he performed miracles. But, whether he did or not is immaterial to the fact that he was a force for good. He encouraged men to accept one another as equals and to not hold grudges against the Romans even though they were oppressors. He willing went to his death knowing that he was betrayed and sent to the cross over a murderer. He was a model for love and compassion to his very last breath. You don't have to believe that he walked on water or fed thousands with just a few fishes and loaves, but you have to acknowledge he was a catalyst for good. As I stated before, you are entitled to your beliefs and your opinions. But, categorizing all religions and religious-minded as child abusers is unenlightened.

Consider this, could religion be merely another word for science? Ancient man did not possess the intellect to process things that happened around them, so they attributed it to the work of God or Gods. As technology advanced, more and more man found that there were natural and logical reasons for some of these occurrences. Recently, the movie Angels & Demons talked about the God Particle in terms of physics. The particle is so named because it is, "so central to the state of physics today, so crucial to our final understanding of the structure of matter, yet so elusive,". Could that also be said about God? Of course it could! Could God have been the architect of all that there is? Yes, he could. God is elusive, but to those of us who believe, we know He is there. For those of you who do not believe, you merely call Him science. So, should we stop teaching our children about science? Of course, not!

Again, these are my opinions. I take issue with anyone who forces religion on anyone just as I take issue with those who try to force atheism on anyone. But, I take particular issue with someone who blindly and without regard for other's beliefs says religious people are child abusers.
Title: Re: An Anointing Message To Fathers for 2012
Post by: RiversideLoki on January 06, 2012, 01:33:21 PM
I'm raising my child to be a happy, content critical thinker. When she is old enough to choose religion, she may do so. But *my* job as a father is to teach her the ways of the universe and teach her right from wrong. My view is (and always has been) that any human can be "Good without God." And the challenge to any free-thinker is always that of remaining humble to our fellow man and respectful of others beliefs.

Now don't get me wrong, there are those of us non-believers out there who are the philosophical equivalent of Mark Brunson. Those who would rather see religion eliminated. But I don't necessarily see it that way. I figure if it comforts the sheep while the wolves prey, let them believe.

The problem that I constantly come across is that theists tend to constantly rain down fire upon atheists for "threatening" their religion. And in a town where religion is so tightly integrated into our day-to-day business life, I find myself forced to smile and say "Have a blessed day!" with empty meaning just to maintain a business contact. Or else I risk losing a source of income. What an absurd world we live in!

What threat am I to your religion? Is the thought of someone "catching" atheism just too much for you to bear that you become offended by my mere presence?

I guess the bottom line is that I fear nothing except my fellow man.