Metro Jacksonville

I've been beating this drum pretty loudly ever since I lived at the beach and voted against it, simply due to the nature of unintended consequences... which have ultimately beared true.



http://jacksonville.com/business/2011-12-02/story/building-height-limits-beaches-should-be-reviewed-business-0 (http://jacksonville.com/business/2011-12-02/story/building-height-limits-beaches-should-be-reviewed-business-0)

QuoteBuilding height limits at Beaches should be reviewed for business

By Drew Dixon jacksonville.com Copyright 2011 The Florida Times-Union. All rights reserved. This material may not be published, broadcast, rewritten or redistributed. 
December 2, 2011 - 12:16am
Building height limits at Beaches should be reviewed for business
Some Beaches leaders think it’s time to take another look at height limit restrictions on buildings.

The argument is that Beaches cities are losing valuable tax revenue in business districts that are restricted to building heights of 35 feet. The last building height cap was enacted in 2006 by voters in Atlantic Beach, who followed the lead of Neptune Beach and Jacksonville Beach who approved similar referendums two years earlier.

The height limits were approved by voters to stem the increasing number of residential high-rise buildings that blocked views of the ocean.

“At 35 feet, the numbers won’t work to say where you got enough investment for a return,” former Atlantic Beach City Commissioner Paul Parsons said, adding the height limits are driving away business investors
The height limit shouldn’t be entirely negated, Parsons said. He said just modifying the cap to 45 feet in commercial districts only will bring many more businesses to coastal communities. And commercial structures are a rich source of property and sales tax revenue.

“You take a four-story building, as opposed to a three-story building, you’re going to have a hotel or office space, you’re going to be able to fill up that hotel or office space with clients and they’re going to pay rent on it,” Parsons said. “There would be enough taxes out of one building to pay the equivalent of 35 to 55 homes in Atlantic Beach.”

Parsons stressed the time is now to start at least reviewing the potential impact of increasing building height limits in commercial districts. He acknowledged since every coastal building height limit was essentially a charter amendment in each city, another referendum would be required to change the stipulation.

But Atlantic Beach has already granted exceptions to the building height limit. An exception was granted by the City Commission Nov. 14 that will allow LA Fitness workout gym to exceed the limit by 3 feet as that facility is about to build a center at 985 Atlantic Blvd. where a Publix supermarket was once located.

In 2007, Atlantic Beach granted an exemption for The New Friendship Baptist Church’s 44-foot-tall building at 28 Dudley St. off Mayport Road. Both exceptions were given for architectural additions based on aesthetics, not an increase in height for the entire structure.

The public push for the building height caps in all three Beaches municipalities was initiated by the citizens’ activist group Beaches Watch. That group organized the petition drives that placed the issue on city ballots and the main concern was stemming the proliferation of high-rise residential structures on the shoreline.

Beaches Watch President Sandy Golding said she’s cautious about the suggestions for commercial revisions on the height limit as suggested by Parsons. But she acknowledged there may be room for review.

“This is kind of new,” Golding said Monday. “It does have to go to the people [for a vote].

“It would be interesting to do an analysis and determine would there really be that much of a revenue generation if you did increase the height limit to 45 feet,” said Golding. “The key here is now people have a say. That’s what’s important.”

Parsons said given the economic slump, revisiting the height limit shouldn’t be limited to Atlantic Beach. “It’s all the Beaches.”

But in Atlantic Beach, Parsons’ proposal is getting some traction.

“I think that we should look at everything,” said Atlantic Beach City Commissioner Maria Mark. “The 35-foot height limit was passed because of the threat of high-rises. That was residential.

“Five years later, we need to take a realistic approach to the commercial side of the community. It will have to be a thoughtful process and involve community,” Mark said. “I’m open to further discussion.”

Atlantic Beach City Commissioner Jonathan Daugherty said he can see no reason to change the building height limit.

“The purpose of the 35-foot height limit is to preserve the character of Atlantic Beach,” Daugherty said. “There are certain things within the code that allow us to do things like we did with LA Fitness and give exceptions for architectural elements.”

One area where a building might be justified in exceeding the 35-foot limit is a potential parking garage near the Beaches Town Center, Daugherty said, adding that would be driven by commercial concerns.

drew.dixon@jacksonville.com, (904) 359-4098

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Comments (1) By marr | 12/02/11 - 08:18 am Building-height limits should be kept. No need to be so money hungry and greedy. There is nothing uglier than tall buildings near our sea waters. Four-story buildings are high enough. Place taller buildings on the other side of A1A, but do NOT place a wall of tall buildings by the beach area. The beaches belong to the People, you ought to respect that!! Do NOT block the beach area view with tall buildings, there are enough EMPTY commercial buildings around the area, there is no need to build more so that a few builders get rich and City collects on permits, etc. Make money attracting people to the area businesses that are already there and keep improving the beaches.

The public push for the building height caps in all three Beaches municipalities was initiated by the citizens’ activist group Beaches Watch. That group organized the petition drives that placed the issue on city ballots and the main concern was stemming the proliferation of high-rise residential structures on the shoreline.

Beaches Watch President Sandy Golding said she’s cautious about the suggestions for commercial revisions on the height limit as suggested by Parsons. But she acknowledged there may be room for review.

“This is kind of new,” Golding said Monday. “It does have to go to the people [for a vote].

“It would be interesting to do an analysis and determine would there really be that much of a revenue generation if you did increase the height limit to 45 feet,” said Golding. “The key here is now people have a say. That’s what’s important.”

Parsons said given the economic slump, revisiting the height limit shouldn’t be limited to Atlantic Beach. “It’s all the Beaches.”

But in Atlantic Beach, Parsons’ proposal is getting some traction.

“I think that we should look at everything,” said Atlantic Beach City Commissioner Maria Mark. “The 35-foot height limit was passed because of the threat of high-rises. That was residential.

“Five years later, we need to take a realistic approach to the commercial side of the community. It will have to be a thoughtful process and involve community,” Mark said. “I’m open to further discussion.”


“Five years later, we need to take a realistic approach to the commercial side of the community. It will have to be a thoughtful process and involve community,” Mark said. “I’m open to further discussion.”

Atlantic Beach City Commissioner Jonathan Daugherty said he can see no reason to change the building height limit.

“The purpose of the 35-foot height limit is to preserve the character of Atlantic Beach,” Daugherty said. “There are certain things within the code that allow us to do things like we did with LA Fitness and give exceptions for architectural elements.”

One area where a building might be justified in exceeding the 35-foot limit is a potential parking garage near the Beaches Town Center, Daugherty said, adding that would be driven by commercial concerns.



Read more at Jacksonville.com: http://jacksonville.com/business/2011-12-02/story/building-height-limits-beaches-should-be-reviewed-business-0#ixzz1fOApooT5
Read more at Jacksonville.com: http://jacksonville.com/business/2011-12-02/story/building-height-limits-beaches-should-be-reviewed-business-0#ixzz1fOAlu7LN

Read more at Jacksonville.com: http://jacksonville.com/business/2011-12-02/story/building-height-limits-beaches-should-be-reviewed-business-0#ixzz1fOAYEa9U


Read more at Jacksonville.com: http://jacksonville.com/business/2011-12-02/story/building-height-limits-beaches-should-be-reviewed-business-0#ixzz1fOAUfJpv

There should be no hight restrictions on buildings at the beaches.

^They needed to do something about the 10-story eyesores that were popping up there for a while and blotting out the view. As someone from Neptune Beach, which has probably the most strict regulations, the benefits of it definitely outweighed the negatives.

Why fix what isn't broken. 

The higher up you can go, the more to view. Plus for those who can't be in the sun for too long, the buildings can act as a shield during the late afternoon. And of course, there's urban density. Sorry, I'm a big time city boy.

"The buildings can act as a shield"? I'm sorry, but that's just silly. No one goes to the beach to sit in the shadow of a 10- or 15-story condo building.

And it goes without saying that density can occur without enormous stucco eyesores blotting out the sun.

The height limit is a joke.  There's all kinds of ways around it.  When we lived at Jax Beach, they were making exceptions, and pretty much everybody who wanted to build higher than 35' got an exception for one reason or another.  The height limits were viewed as a joke.

Urbaknight, when you can't use the beach because the high rises have blocked off the access points, and you can't feel the ocean breezes in the evening because the high rises have blocked it, you may feel differently.

Quote from: Tacachale on December 06, 2011, 01:09:52 PM
"The buildings can act as a shield"? I'm sorry, but that's just silly. No one goes to the beach to sit in the shadow of a 10- or 15-story condo building.

And it goes without saying that density can occur without enormous stucco eyesores blotting out the sun.

I do, can't be in the sun for too long without burning. But I love the beach and still visit as often as I can. However I pretty much always burn. I would love to see the beaches skyline look like Miami. But if those who live there voted for the height limits, Who am I to dictate what should be? I'll just focus my urban demands on Downtown JAX.

Quote from: Tacachale on December 06, 2011, 01:09:52 PM
"The buildings can act as a shield"? I'm sorry, but that's just silly. No one goes to the beach to sit in the shadow of a 10- or 15-story condo building.

And it goes without saying that density can occur without enormous stucco eyesores blotting out the sun.

This.  What is needed are design guidelines and a better comprehensive master plan to allow for variations in density and building uses to respond to dynamic needs and market conditions.

before the all encompassing height limit was passed, there was a current height limit throughout most of the beaches area.  you were only allowed to exceed height limit within the central business district of jax beach.  unfortunately the city of jax beach kept approving variance requests to erect the tall buildings outside the central business district to put extra money in their pockets.  the residents became unruly, not realizing they already had a height restriction on the books that was being ignored by city reviewers, they put an all encompassing height restriction on the ballet instead of asking the city to uphold the current height restriction laws.  the voters put the beaches wide height restriction into action.  blame it on the greedy city leaders and the uniformed residents of jax beach for what they have now.  i say we repeal the height limit in the central business district of jax beach and enforce it everywhere else like it should have been originally done.