This is for BT:
A study by the Institute on Taxation and Economic Policy challenges the notion that illegal immigrants come to the U.S. to freeload. According to the New York Daily News, the study says illegal immigrants paid $11.2 billion in taxes last year.
ITEP estimates that households that are headed by undocumented immigrants (which may include members who are U.S. citizens or legal immigrants) paid $11.2 billion in state and local taxes last year. That included $1.2 billion in personal income taxes, $1.6 billion in property taxes and $8.4 billion in sales taxes.
Higher in the story, the columnist compares that figure to taxes paid by General Electric, which earned $14 billion last year, and “is reported to have paid nothing, nada, zero in taxes (GE denies it).â€
Here’s more from the columnist:
To no one’s surprise, taxes are still as certain for working people â€" and whatever is left of the middle class â€" as they ever were. But for, well, GE and other corporate giants, the only certainty is that many found ways to contribute as little to the country’s coffers as possible.
At the same time, Republicans in Washington are involved in a mighty struggle to protect the tax breaks of the country’s richest 2%, while happily proposing to cut the most basic social services to Americans who really need them.
http://blog.seattlepi.com/seattlepolitics/2011/04/21/study-illegal-immigrants-paid-11-2b-in-taxes-ge-paid-0-ny-daily-news/
My fellow Americans, ask not what your country can do for you, ask what you can do for your country. John F. Kennedy
That applies to everyone but the 1% and their mega-corporate sponsors, who keep mooching off the government with corporate welfare galore!!
Why is this for me? close the loopholes... I certainly support that. Always have.
Faye... How much tax do illegal immigrants in Holland pay?
When looking at articles like this it's important to remember that when it's being reporting "taxes paid" most often they are not taking into account the 100% refund of the taxes the lower income folks receive which makes their total tax contribution net $0. That having been said, I agree the loopholes need to be closed, however they need to be closed across the board to ensure everyone is paying into the system. It's ridiculous that we have people paying into a system that they will not be able to receive benefit from while there are American citizens who literally pay nothing and are still entitled to receive.
Corporations paying taxes? Not on your life.
No matter how it is spinned, there is not a corporation in the world that pays a single tax. That honor is bestowed on the consumer - you and me. I thought everyone knew by now that ALL expenses to a corporation were included in the price of the goods or services.
We should be grateful that not another dollar is commandeered by the tax man as that only triggers a price increase down the line. It might be only a penny or nickle or dime per widget but it will be.
Quote from: second_pancake on November 08, 2011, 10:10:10 AM
When looking at articles like this it's important to remember that when it's being reporting "taxes paid" most often they are not taking into account the 100% refund of the taxes the lower income folks receive which makes their total tax contribution net $0.
Hmmm, I totally question your math!
Lets see......
Illegal immigrants paid $11.2 billion in taxes last year.
$1.2 billion in personal income taxes might be refundable if they were low-income........but not all of them are. I knew some northern european people who overstayed their tourist visum and worked in the US, but never got any refund because they weren't low income.
So let's say that $1 billion is refunded..........that still leaves them providing $10.2 to state and federal government revenues, when corporations are a net drain with their massive corporate wel-fare intake.
I always have to laugh at people claiming that the poor don't pay any taxes............as you can see from the above.........more than 90% of taxes paid are of the non-income tax versions like sales tax and property taxes, car registrations etc.
Income tax is always the burden of more than 50% of Americans. Around 50% pay no income taxes, they get refunds back every year or exemptions.
http://www.usatoday.com/money/economy/story/2011-10-06/income-tax-nonpayment/50676912/1
Now sales tax, etc, yes, that is paid by all for all purchases. Unless you get government kickbacks or exemptions.
And Ralph has a point, increase the tax burden of a corporation, increase the cost of the item they produce which is passed along to the consumer, and ultimately the poorest feel the affects first.
Where do you think the money you spend on a company goes? Salaries, costs, profits. If costs rise the price of the item will as well.
If you don't like a company, boycott their products. There are usually a ton of alternatives for each item and even banks. Why bank at a huge bank, I'd rather deal with a credit union.
Quote from: stephendare on November 08, 2011, 08:06:43 PM
Quote from: jandar on November 08, 2011, 08:05:21 PM
Income tax is always the burden of more than 50% of Americans. Around 50% pay no income taxes, they get refunds back every year.
Sorry Jandar, but this is an out and out lie.
Nope, its not Stephen, you can't seem to think that people pay zero income tax at times. The key word is INCOME TAX. Not federal taxes. Separate the two
According to the nonpartisan Tax Policy Center in Washington, D.C.,
46% of tax filers will owe no federal income tax this year. But when you figure in payroll taxes â€" such as those for Social Security, Medicare and unemployment â€" more than 80% of tax filers pay some kind of federal tax. And that doesn't include sales taxes, state taxes, local taxes, gas taxes, etc., which catch just about everyone..
Notice, income tax, not federal taxes.
And yes, the very rich can find tax loopholes to not pay as well.
Quote from: stephendare on November 08, 2011, 08:20:37 PM
Quote from: jandar on November 08, 2011, 08:10:48 PM
Quote from: stephendare on November 08, 2011, 08:06:43 PM
Quote from: jandar on November 08, 2011, 08:05:21 PM
Income tax is always the burden of more than 50% of Americans. Around 50% pay no income taxes, they get refunds back every year.
Sorry Jandar, but this is an out and out lie.
Nope, its not Stephen, you can't seem to think that people pay zero income tax at times. The key word is INCOME TAX. Not federal taxes. Separate the two
According to the nonpartisan Tax Policy Center in Washington, D.C., 46% of tax filers will owe no federal income tax this year. But when you figure in payroll taxes — such as those for Social Security, Medicare and unemployment — more than 80% of tax filers pay some kind of federal tax. And that doesn't include sales taxes, state taxes, local taxes, gas taxes, etc., which catch just about everyone..
Notice, income tax, not federal taxes.
It is still an out and out lie.
22% of the people who 'do not pay income taxes' are retirees and social security pensioners.
They have already paid all the income taxes that they were required.
Income Tax is not supposed to be an everlasting tax, Jandar. It is a deal in which a percentage of your income goes to the government from adulthood (people below the age of 18 are tax exempt, as are students in college) until the mandatory retirement age of 65. So roughly 45 years or so. But it is a finite tax. It doesnt go on forever. Once you have retired, and cash in on your social security policy (a separate, fully paid for retirement payment that is deducted from your check) then you do not owe Income Tax anymore.
This pernicious lie seems to pretend that retirees have to pay more than their duty-----22% of Americans that took the burden of paying a 45 year long tax on their earnings.
The other assumption is that the 15% of the population that is composed of children, for gods sake, will never pay income taxes when they get old enough to take up the income tax duty.
Do you suppose that the 15% of the population that is too young to work, and therefore do not pay income tax, will never have to pay income taxes for the rest of their lives?
This is absurd psycho talk, and it is a lie.
100% - 50% of the population you claim are paying income taxes, - 22% of the people who have already completed their income tax payment, - 15% of the people who have not yet entered into an income tax payment phase but will within the next 18 years (at most) = 13% of the people who 'should' be paying income tax, but arent.
Unemployment at present is ranging between 9 and 19 percent, depending on where you are in the country.
Please stop disseminating this lie.
StephenDare!, what is your source for these claims?
What thread would that be?
No income tax after 65?? Wa-freeking-Hoo!! This is awesome news! I will be passing this on to my father!!
QuoteITEP estimates that households that are headed by undocumented immigrants (which may include members who are U.S. citizens or legal immigrants) paid $11.2 billion in state and local taxes last year. That included $1.2 billion in personal income taxes, $1.6 billion in property taxes and $8.4 billion in sales taxes.
You do realize that this negates the claim made in the title, right.....? Well, you probably didn't, but now you do. Just lookin' out for you Faye.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/business/the-truth-about-ges-tax-bill/2011/04/05/AFZm0L9C_story.html
Quote from: Captain Zissou on November 09, 2011, 08:47:52 AM
QuoteITEP estimates that households that are headed by undocumented immigrants (which may include members who are U.S. citizens or legal immigrants) paid $11.2 billion in state and local taxes last year. That included $1.2 billion in personal income taxes, $1.6 billion in property taxes and $8.4 billion in sales taxes.
You do realize that this negates the claim made in the title, right.....? Well, you probably didn't, but now you do. Just lookin' out for you Faye.
Umm, yeah, households commonly are headed by undocumented immigrants, but they have children born in the US, who are thus "documented immigrants" that are part of the household but too young to provide income.
Your social security benefit may not be taxable... many other retirement income are most certainly taxable.
http://www.youtube.com/v/YyzPum9ySuA
Quote from: FayeforCure on November 09, 2011, 09:26:52 AM
Quote from: Captain Zissou on November 09, 2011, 08:47:52 AM
QuoteITEP estimates that households that are headed by undocumented immigrants (which may include members who are U.S. citizens or legal immigrants) paid $11.2 billion in state and local taxes last year. That included $1.2 billion in personal income taxes, $1.6 billion in property taxes and $8.4 billion in sales taxes.
You do realize that this negates the claim made in the title, right.....? Well, you probably didn't, but now you do. Just lookin' out for you Faye.
Umm, yeah, households commonly are headed by undocumented immigrants, but they have children born in the US, who are thus "documented immigrants" that are part of the household but too young to provide income.
This just confuses your point even further and shows that you have even less of an understanding of what you read. Also, way to use "Ummm Yeah" as a response. How's middle school going this year?? That algebra sure can be tough.
StephenDare!, I would still like to see your source for your claims denying that about 50% of citizens pay no income tax.
Also, the statement "Retirement funds are non taxable", is just not true. MOST retirement income is taxable. Since the income tax is collected largely on a "household" basis, it would seem to be a logical measure. Thus, children are not included in the 50% claim.
And the income tax on Social Security benefits was established under the Reagan administration, but increased under the Clinton administration.
Faye, I'm sure that the point of the thread is to show someone that illegal immigrants actually DO pay some taxes. But the cost of illegal immigration FAR outreaches any such collection of taxes (which, remember, is an ESTIMATE of some group).
Just google "cost of illegal immigration".
Quote from: stephendare on November 09, 2011, 12:09:57 PM
Quote from: NotNow on November 09, 2011, 12:03:23 PM
StephenDare!, I would still like to see your source for your claims denying that about 50% of citizens pay no income tax.
Also, the statement "Retirement funds are non taxable", is just not true. MOST retirement income is taxable. Since the income tax is collected largely on a "household" basis, it would seem to be a logical measure. Thus, children are not included in the 50% claim.
And the income tax on Social Security benefits was established under the Reagan administration, but increased under the Clinton administration.
Your tactic of rearguing every argument youve already lost is something that you can peddle elsewhere not now. If you can disprove these facts, then please do. Ive already posted links and argued elsewhere about this pernicious lie and I have no idea what interest you would have in continuing to perpetuate a bold lie yourself.
A fancy way of saying "I just made that up".
I quoted "politifacts", which you said was wrong. Another poster quoted a well known tax policy site, which you said was wrong. Your the one making claims. Your claims are simply wrong. I really don't see where having a little snit helps your case either.
It's not about "winning" or "losing" StephenDare!, it's about getting the facts straight.
Quote from: NotNow on November 09, 2011, 12:03:23 PM
StephenDare!, I would still like to see your source for your claims denying that about 50% of citizens pay no income tax.
Also, the statement "Retirement funds are non taxable", is just not true. MOST retirement income is taxable. Since the income tax is collected largely on a "household" basis, it would seem to be a logical measure. Thus, children are not included in the 50% claim.
And the income tax on Social Security benefits was established under the Reagan administration, but increased under the Clinton administration.
I haven't read in this topic where he said that yet, but if you look at the link he posted in another topic (Why the Greedy Capitalists...) he shows just the opposite, that indeed almost 40% of Americans do not net payment of taxes. Let me find the link he posted...
http://dmarron.com/2011/07/27/why-do-half-of-americans-pay-no-federal-income-tax/
So, after reading this (which is just a person's blog, but he does source some of the info), you'll see what your encountering is semantics or splitting-of-hairs. While most of us know that you mean INCOME taxes when you reference "taxes", which is what is also meant by the title of this topic when references the illegal immigrants, "taxes" could also mean sales, property, etc. Lol. Yes, almost 50% of income-receivers in America (legal or illegal) NET $0 or -$0 (meaning they get more than they paid in) in INCOME taxes for various numbers of reasons.
Quote from: FayeforCure on November 08, 2011, 10:22:22 AM
Quote from: second_pancake on November 08, 2011, 10:10:10 AM
When looking at articles like this it's important to remember that when it's being reporting "taxes paid" most often they are not taking into account the 100% refund of the taxes the lower income folks receive which makes their total tax contribution net $0.
Hmmm, I totally question your math!
Lets see......
Illegal immigrants paid $11.2 billion in taxes last year.
$1.2 billion in personal income taxes might be refundable if they were low-income........but not all of them are. I knew some northern european people who overstayed their tourist visum and worked in the US, but never got any refund because they weren't low income.
So let's say that $1 billion is refunded..........that still leaves them providing $10.2 to state and federal government revenues, when corporations are a net drain with their massive corporate wel-fare intake.
I always have to laugh at people claiming that the poor don't pay any taxes............as you can see from the above.........more than 90% of taxes paid are of the non-income tax versions like sales tax and property taxes, car registrations etc.
The article is talking about income taxes and that is my reference, INCOME, not sales, not property, not luxury tax, INCOME.
Quote from: stephendare on November 08, 2011, 10:12:32 AM
Quote from: second_pancake on November 08, 2011, 10:10:10 AM
When looking at articles like this it's important to remember that when it's being reporting "taxes paid" most often they are not taking into account the 100% refund of the taxes the lower income folks receive which makes their total tax contribution net $0. That having been said, I agree the loopholes need to be closed, however they need to be closed across the board to ensure everyone is paying into the system. It's ridiculous that we have people paying into a system that they will not be able to receive benefit from while there are American citizens who literally pay nothing and are still entitled to receive.
Like Wall Street. I agree, second pancake. Its disgusting. A couple a trillion for the non tax payers, meanwhile the working middle class is being told that all that money that they paid into social security is better spent on other things.
Don't twist my words. Corporations are owned by people, those people, pay into the income tax system including FDIC and are entitled to receive those benefits provided they are not illegals, upon their retirement age being met, or sooner if they choose to utilize the earlier retirement option. Corporations, the entity, do not pay into the SS system nor do they receive SS benefits. It can not, it is not a singular being. While it has a federal tax id number, it does not have a SSN. The tax id number is used to account for BUSINESS related taxes.
Ok, folks, let's take income taxes out of this equation. Let's focus on sales tax and property tax. What would you say is the average cost of home a "poor" person would own? We'll use Jacksonville since we all know you can own a million dollar home in CA and it's still a 1-room shack. In regard to sales tax, where do "poor" people shop? Do they go to the high-price boutiques? How about Macy's? Do you think they shop there? How much (quantity) goods do you think the average "poor" person purchases in any given month? Do you think they spend $2000 a month in clothing and other taxable goods(remember, food is non-taxable in most states)? How about $3000? Now, ask those same questions of someone who makes over $500k a year and has a good amount of disposable income. I'm not saying that "poor" people don't pay taxes, Faye. Clearly taxes get paid and clearly its a good amount. Yes, there are corporate breaks as well, however if we're going to talk about one aspect, we need to talk about all of them. Speaking in percentages, what we need to see is the full picture. If in America, illegal immigrants accounted for $11.2billion in state and local taxes, what is the percentage of LEGAL and from that percentage, how many were in the so-called 99% (under the $900k per year mark?), how many were earning more than $200k (the apparant benchmark for a "rich" person) but are not the 1%? How many of them were in the 99%? From all those categories, what was the average amount that each group paid into state and local taxes? How much was income tax? How much was sales tax? So on and so forth...
Quote from: stephendare on November 09, 2011, 01:17:53 PM
Quote from: second_pancake on November 09, 2011, 01:12:37 PM
Quote from: stephendare on November 08, 2011, 10:12:32 AM
Quote from: second_pancake on November 08, 2011, 10:10:10 AM
When looking at articles like this it's important to remember that when it's being reporting "taxes paid" most often they are not taking into account the 100% refund of the taxes the lower income folks receive which makes their total tax contribution net $0. That having been said, I agree the loopholes need to be closed, however they need to be closed across the board to ensure everyone is paying into the system. It's ridiculous that we have people paying into a system that they will not be able to receive benefit from while there are American citizens who literally pay nothing and are still entitled to receive.
Like Wall Street. I agree, second pancake. Its disgusting. A couple a trillion for the non tax payers, meanwhile the working middle class is being told that all that money that they paid into social security is better spent on other things.
Don't twist my words. Corporations are owned by people, those people, pay into the income tax system including FDIC and are entitled to receive those benefits provided they are not illegals, upon their retirement age being met, or sooner if they choose to utilize the earlier retirement option. Corporations, the entity, do not pay into the SS system nor do they receive SS benefits. It can not, it is not a singular being. While it has a federal tax id number, it does not have a SSN. The tax id number is used to account for BUSINESS related taxes.
So some people are just more equal than others, right?
Corporations pay no taxes and therefore deserve to get bailed out, and undocumented workers pay taxes and therefore deserve to get nothing in return, even though their work generates billions of dollars in profits for the agricultural and food industry, all of which is also taxed on the local levels.
I see how it works now.
Sounds like the kind of system that would eventually become popular enough to last forever, my friend. Or maybe just a Thousand Years.
Twisting my words again, Stephen. I did not make any statement about corporations getting bailed out one way or the other. I stated a fact: Corporations are owned by people, they are not a person and can not collect SS. Period. If you remember my comments in other topics on this forum, I have been very consistent in stating that I do not believe the bailout should've occured...for any company, banks or otherwise. I also made it, so I thought, VERY clear on this topic, in my very first post, that it is "unfair" for the illegals to have to be forced to pay into a system for which they are not allowed and can not collect any benefit.
Quote from: stephendare on November 09, 2011, 01:25:55 PM
Quote from: second_pancake on November 09, 2011, 01:23:04 PM
Ok, folks, let's take income taxes out of this equation. Let's focus on sales tax and property tax. What would you say is the average cost of home a "poor" person would own? We'll use Jacksonville since we all know you can own a million dollar home in CA and it's still a 1-room shack. In regard to sales tax, where do "poor" people shop? Do they go to the high-price boutiques? How about Macy's? Do you think they shop there? How much (quantity) goods do you think the average "poor" person purchases in any given month? Do you think they spend $2000 a month in clothing and other taxable goods(remember, food is non-taxable in most states)? How about $3000? Now, ask those same questions of someone who makes over $500k a year and has a good amount of disposable income. I'm not saying that "poor" people don't pay taxes, Faye. Clearly taxes get paid and clearly its a good amount. Yes, there are corporate breaks as well, however if we're going to talk about one aspect, we need to talk about all of them. Speaking in percentages, what we need to see is the full picture. If in America, illegal immigrants accounted for $11.2billion in state and local taxes, what is the percentage of LEGAL and from that percentage, how many were in the so-called 99% (under the $900k per year mark?), how many were earning more than $200k (the apparant benchmark for a "rich" person) but are not the 1%? How many of them were in the 99%? From all those categories, what was the average amount that each group paid into state and local taxes? How much was income tax? How much was sales tax? So on and so forth...
This is amongst the most bizarre things youve posted yet.
Are you telling us that 11 billion dollars in taxes is better when its paid by rich people?
Or that it spends less when it is paid by 'poor' people?
Dude, how would you tell, looking at a hundred dollar bill who all had handled it?
Where on earth are you going with this drivel?
You really do just argue for the sake of arguing, don't you? No, Stephen, I get paid to analyze things and that's exactly what I'm doing. You can't pull numbers for one group and not for the others and claim that as the only basis of measurement. It doesn't work that way. I'm saying that the statement, "Illegal immigrants paid $11.2 billion in taxes" has no meaning if have nothing to compare it to. That's like saying, "StephenDare owns a waterfront home." In FL, people would automatically assume you have a nice house on the river, ICW, or ocean. In reality, you could own a shack on a large wastewater facility. Or how about, "StephenDare paid $1.2m for a home in Jacksonville last year." WOW! That would be fantastic, right? No. The housing crisis hit Jacksonville in 2006 and values have been steadily decreasing. Depending on where that house was located, you could have overpaid by more than 1/2 and that property could have a value of only $400k so paying more than a million would just make you a fool. Do you see where I'm going now?