Monroe Street: Do The Right Thing
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This evening, the Jacksonville City Council will officially decide to construct a new street and call it Monroe or to save taxpayers possibly $1 million. Here are five reasons why Council members on the fence should not support forcing a new street into the courthouse site.
Full Article
http://www.metrojacksonville.com/article/2011-oct-monroe-street-do-the-right-thing
Is there any legitimate argument in favor of building that street?
The strongest arguments are making Monroe an auto arterial connecting I-95 to the Hart Bridge, "keeping the street grid intact", and keeping council's promise to keep Monroe Street open. However, that pledge was broken in 2008 when council approved placing the courthouse on top of it. I don't believe these reasons are worth spending an extra million in taxpayer dollars, endangering 500,000 annual pedestrians and undermining existing downtown development.
I spoke with Redman the other day. He seemed confident that he will get the votes he needs. We must keep emailing and calling them.
Today is the day. Hopefully, things will go the right way. A well designed space at the courthouse's entrance would be a huge accomplishment in the effort to revitalize downtown. It's also one of the few major physical public improvements that could be completed within the next year or so.
If they would just make Duval and Adams Streets two-way I don't think anyone would gripe about the street missing. I don't know why we need expressways through the core anyways.
If someone can play the National Security card, then the council will not vote to put a street in front of the "MEGA OBNOXIOUS" courthouse.
-Josh
It's been played. The reality is, even if the street is rebuild, it would probably be shut down soon afterwards for security concerns.
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At that point, we would have paid $1 million for a wide sidewalk designed for cars.
Don't forget the fence to keep people off the grass.
No Occupiers allowed. Peaceful assembly is a security risk.
Metal detectors and bomb sniffers will be installed at all entrances AND the parking garage.
Great article Ennis!!
Excellent, well-reasoned article, Ennis. Unfortunately this contention is more about bruised egos suffered by certain councilmen than doing the right thing by the city. Hopefully the smart move will prevail, the council has proven capable doing that on occasion.
I had to be downtown today and as luck would have it I parked on Adam St.
I walked Adam St. in front of the courthouse and I'm amazed that they would even consider adding a new Monroe St semi-circle and call $800,000 a good price. What are they thinking.
First, Adams St. has to be repaired and the drainage revamped to meet the finished height of the roadway.
Second, the squashed space left in front of the courthouse if Monroe is built is still going to need landscaping and all the amenities that go along with a fancy edifice. You can bet your last dollar that the people (judges) will not stand for a simple swatch of grass in front of THEIR monument.
And, third, but certainly not last, is what has been previously mentioned: the safety of the walking public. Cross walks, signals, traffic calming measures, etc.
Just the work needed on Adams will eat up that $800,000 in a New York minute.
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Fa' la cosa giusta
Quote from: Ralph W on October 25, 2011, 12:12:05 PM
Just the work needed on Adams will eat up that $800,000 in a New York minute.
Nobody has paid attention but the same has to be done to Broad, Duval and Pearl.
The suspense is killing me. Stephen or Lake - are you at the council meeting right now? When will it be on the agenda?
It's killing me too. I thought your post was an update!
ditto
Council did the right thing! :)
http://jacksonville.com/news/metro/2011-10-25/story/jacksonville-city-council-does-u-turn-monroe-issue?cid=hp-justin
Kudos to the council and good for Jacksonville.
Awesome! Can't wait to find out who voted for and against.
Ahhh Relief. Good move council!
First the Jags win, then Megabus announces they're coming to town, and now this!! What an awesome day!
SWEET!
great work by folks on this site in lobbying Council members and the Mayor's staff.
Wow were doing something right!!
Yay! This is a huge win for Metro Jacksonville! :-*
So it's just going to be grass? maybe they can hire a qualified landscape architect in the meantime to design a nice public space.
Woo hoo!!!
Quote from: TheProfessor on October 26, 2011, 01:00:36 AM
So it's just going to be grass? maybe they can hire a qualified landscape architect in the meantime to design a nice public space.
A local landscape architect volunteered his services a month or two ago. So they should already have a plan for basic nice green space by now.
Good job Council. Thanks to Don Redman for keeping it going and meeting with us!
Quote from: thelakelander on October 26, 2011, 06:16:09 AM
Quote from: TheProfessor on October 26, 2011, 01:00:36 AM
So it's just going to be grass? maybe they can hire a qualified landscape architect in the meantime to design a nice public space.
A local landscape architect volunteered his services a month or two ago. So they should already have a plan for basic nice green space by now.
That would be Chris Flagg, I believe. He designed the new park at Friendship Fountain.
I missed this TU editorial yesterday but thought it still be good to share:
QuoteLead letter: Are downtown streets for people or cars?
Jacksonville must commit to its urban theater if it wants to thrive in its urban core.
The city must do far more than invest in buildings that become just average in scope and less so in design. For the city to grow, prosper and attract, it must attend to its pedestrian fabric - what design professionals refer to as "hardscape, landscape and streetscape."
If the city aspires to greatness (which it does, thankfully), then it has to understand the value of place-making and urban design - collectively, its urban theater.
Think of it this way: Jacksonville must program, design and animate the spaces formed by buildings - not just the form of the buildings. And it must always find ways to build streets for people - not just for cars.
True, great architecture can make for great, memorable places. But think about it: Great architecture is always magnified by great spaces and settings.
City Council is considering an idea that the urban piazza space in front of the new Duval County Courthouse could be seeded with grass, thereby deferring the alignment or closing of Monroe Street and saving about $700,000.
Really? Seeded with grass?
That's what is done to temporarily mitigate a construction site, not to showcase a multi-million-dollar investment. Please tell the game-day blimp photographer not to show off our new downtown hayfield.
We have all been tattooed with the news of runaway courthouse costs. But to reach the final stages of the project without any recognition or real game-plan of how to capitalize on the building's presence signals the dismal state of urban design in Jacksonville - no matter what the state of the economy is.
Will downtown have a weedy, dirt patch in front of its new courthouse? It already has bland street environments and numerous surface parking lots.
I hold out hope that the city's leadership will some day soon have an epiphany and realize the incredible foundation and palette they have to work with in the urban core.
The setting near the river is truly grand, but without inspired design and sensitive design mandates for everything that is built or renovated, Jacksonville, as a place, will not achieve, nor compete - ever.
Rick Pariani,
Ponte Vedra Beach
http://jacksonville.com/opinion/letters-readers/2011-10-25/story/lead-letter-are-downtown-streets-people-or-cars
Restoration of Monroe Street put on holdQuoteBoyer pointed out that the City could save about $775,000 by not building the road and both Council members were concerned about making pedestrians cross two streets to reach the main entrance of the new courthouse.
“I’ve heard from engineers, business owners and the judiciary who have concerns about safety if Monroe Street is opened,†said Redman.
Fourth Judicial Circuit Chief Judge Donald Moran attended the Tuesday meeting.
“I am pleased that they drove by and saw it wasn’t the best for the citizens who will use the courthouse on a regular basis,†he said.
While the vote transfers money for the project to the budget for an ash site project and places a moratorium on developing the land in front of the courthouse, it doesn’t end the debate.
“We have not vacated the road,†said Council Vice President Bill Bishop, who voted against the measure.
“I’m sure we will revisit the issue when the courthouse nears completion,†he said.
Council members John Crescimbeni and Kim Daniels also voted against the bill. Crescimbeni was worried about what will happen if the road is not reopened.
“I recently had a business owner stop by my office inquiring about closing a contiguous section of Monroe Street if the section in front of the courthouse remains closed,†said Crescimbeni.
“I don’t understand. The council has repeatedly taken the position to keep the street open. I think this latest push has come from the judiciary. They pushed a design that encroached on the street,†he said.
Moran has lobbied to keep the road closed and leave the space in front of the new courthouse as a park because he doesn’t want visitors to the courthouse crossing two lanes of traffic to reach the front door.
full article: http://www.jaxdailyrecord.com/showstory.php?Story_id=534795
Quote“I recently had a business owner stop by my office inquiring about closing a contiguous section of Monroe Street if the section in front of the courthouse remains closed,†said Crescimbeni.
I don't know what section this business owner mentioned possibly closing but if its the stretch between the courthouse and Hogan Street, that's not a bad idea. As un-auto friendly as it sounds, downtown was built and should be designed for the pedestrian. That particular stretch connecting the county courthouse to the federal courthouse and Hemming Plaza has the potential to be a nice pedestrian scale corridor within the urban fabric of downtown. This is what the concept of context sensitive streets is all about.
Lastnight DID feel like a victory!
I had to be present even if only to stare some folks in the eyes.
I hope the closure grows for the sake of vibrancy in the form of foot traffic.
Fwiw from the Library, musuem, StJames to the court village sounds about right.
IMHO.Again, thanks thanks MJ!!
The word temporary deeply Concerns me.
Temporary non reconstruction of Monroe street.
Temporary (finally official) moratorium on collecting impact fees.
Thanks for publicly lobbying for the disadvantaged.
Quote from: thelakelander on October 26, 2011, 11:34:16 AM
Quote“I recently had a business owner stop by my office inquiring about closing a contiguous section of Monroe Street if the section in front of the courthouse remains closed,†said Crescimbeni.
I don't know what section this business owner mentioned possibly closing but if its the stretch between the courthouse and Hogan Street, that's not a bad idea. As un-auto friendly as it sounds, downtown was built and should be designed for the pedestrian. That particular stretch connecting the county courthouse to the federal courthouse and Hemming Plaza has the potential to be a nice pedestrian scale corridor within the urban fabric of downtown. This is what the concept of context sensitive streets is all about.
You mean like this?
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Ricker:
Will you please email or call me? I sent you a message via MetroJacksonville.
Quote from: dougskiles on October 25, 2011, 10:09:04 PM
Awesome! Can't wait to find out who voted for and against.
Only three votes against keeping it closed: Bishop, Crescimbeni and Daniels. We should send thank you emails to the other 15.
Quote from: Kay on October 26, 2011, 04:38:54 PM
Quote from: dougskiles on October 25, 2011, 10:09:04 PM
Awesome! Can't wait to find out who voted for and against.
Only three votes against keeping it closed: Bishop, Crescimbeni and Daniels. We should send thank you emails to the other 15.
I will.
Let's not think for a minute that this issue has gone away, however. What needs to happen to make it permanent?
For starters, making the surrounding streets 2-way will alleviate any disruption that could be blamed on having the road closed.
Equally as important will be lots of pedestrian activity on the section of Monroe remaining between Hemming and Courthouse. Sidewalk vendors, shade trees, etc.
Whenever Mayor Brown and City Council get around to finally figuring out how our city will be structured the mayor will probably be supportive of changes like this. Everything worth doing is now on hold until the spring.
1. I agree that the streets should be two-way regardless of the courthouse situation. It's proven that this is good for economic development in downtowns throughout the country and a great example in Florida is Lakeland. They got rid of most of their one-way streets a decade ago and the rest has been history. With this in mind, simply two-waying streets will also eliminate any traffic concerns.
2. Greater than pedestrian traffic on Monroe is pedestrian traffic and interactivity along Adams and at the base of the courthouse garage. If Adams can be rebuilt in a context sensitive manner (it has to be rebuilt as a part of the courthouse project), it can easily become an environment where the green space is lined with street level retail and outdoor cafes. That type of pedestrian scale interactivity will draw more pedestrians to the area, making forcing a new street into such a space more questionable than it is today.
3. Pack the green space with special events and activities. Go throw a frisbee, play pick up soccer, have a concert, festival or protest in that space and brand it as a public space. If it's used, the argument for forcing a street into it becomes more difficult to push.
4. From my understanding, Mayor Brown did support this bill.
He publicly endorsed keeping the road the way it is according to the TU story. So we need to follow up with Kudos and suggestions.
Kay:
I have been trying to reach you since you're originally emailed me.
Please send details to
ricker.aaron@gmail.com
Quote from: JeffreyS on October 26, 2011, 08:32:01 PM
He publicly endorsed keeping the road the way it is according to the TU story. So we need to follow up with Kudos and suggestions.
yes...some members of TransForm Jax met with a member of the Mayor's staff a few weeks ago, provided them with a copy of the one sheet exhibit Lakelander developed, and urged them to speak out publicly in favor of leaving the road closed.
Quote from: tufsu1 on October 27, 2011, 08:16:53 AM
Quote from: JeffreyS on October 26, 2011, 08:32:01 PM
He publicly endorsed keeping the road the way it is according to the TU story. So we need to follow up with Kudos and suggestions.
yes...some members of TransForm Jax met with a member of the Mayor's staff a few weeks ago, provided them with a copy of the one sheet exhibit Lakelander developed, and urged them to speak out publicly in favor of leaving the road closed.
Well great job. +1