Everyone knows Florida in general and Jacksonville in particular needs a comprehensive bicycle/pedestrian trail network. I'd like to toss out an idea born in yesterday's evening rush hour whilst returning to St. Augustine from the VA clinic.
Jacksonville has a pretty decent network of older, established, 4-6 lane boulevards radiating in all directions from downtown. I noted along Philips yesterday that there are sidewalks in front of certain new construction and none along the rest of the route, with the exception of older urbanized areas.
I realize that to lay out a grid overlay on a map and try and build piecemeal is exactly what we've been doing for the last 100 years. Why not set up primary targeted boulevards with a "complete streets" style improvement package, and focus those initial efforts at getting the primary avenues completed first.
I'd focus on San Jose, Philips, Southside, Beach, Atlantic, Merrill, Zoo-Hecksher, Main, Lem Turner, New Kings Road, Beaver, Blanding, Roosevelt and connector trails along University, Dunn and Edgewood, pushing at least one multi-use pathway on one side of the road, at or near the full length within the city limits. Put the other potential segments on hold until we develop a framework of a comprehensive system.
Imagine being able to ride downtown from Bayard, the Beaches, or Orange Park, without having to engage auto traffic in a game of 'dodge cars'.
OCKLAWAHA
^Check out the mobility plan. There are a series of pedestrian and bicycle network connectivity projects it would fund as well. It answers many of the things you bring up and even phases them. Unfortunately, the mobility fee is needed to generate the cash and we just put it on ice.
It would be nice to have a safe way to get from downtown to the beaches by bicycle. Does the mobility plan address that, or does it just talk about striping off a part of Beach Blvd.?
There's no separated multiuse path in the plan along Beach Blvd. There is no improvement along Beach Blvd in the plan above the bike lanes being currently installed on it now. At this point, Jacksonville does even have a connected network. The plan places a higher priority on creating that basic network. Most of the Southside's bike projects focus on better connecting places like Southpoint, UNF, Avenues, etc. with a continuous network of bike facilities (bike lanes, multi use paths, etc.) throughout the city.
Quote from: Dashing Dan on October 21, 2011, 11:18:43 AM
It would be nice to have a safe way to get from downtown to the beaches by bicycle. Does the mobility plan address that, or does it just talk about striping off a part of Beach Blvd.?
(http://30thcentury.files.wordpress.com/2009/06/gb-armored-poweredquadracycle-june18991.jpg)
That might work on Beach Blvd.!
Quote from: thelakelander on October 21, 2011, 11:28:55 AM
There's no separated multiuse path in the plan along Beach Blvd. There is no improvement along Beach Blvd in the plan above the bike lanes being currently installed on it now. At this point, Jacksonville does even have a connected network. The plan places a higher priority on creating that basic network. Most of the Southside's bike projects focus on better connecting places like Southpoint, UNF, Avenues, etc. with a continuous network of bike facilities (bike lanes, multi use paths, etc.) throughout the city.
So the mobility plan gets us started, but we need to go on from there?
My suggestion for the next step would be either a countywide "complete streets" policy, and after that, a plan for separated bicycle paths across the county.
^Yes. It's a way to help get us off the sidelines and into the game. There's still more to do if we want the starting position.
My thoughts on Beach Blvd. is that putting a bike lane in is not sufficient. That is one dangerous highway, actual speeds too high, dangerous intersections, too many lanes, and lots of turns to strip centers. Dangerous by Design identified this road as one of the chief culprits in pedestrian deaths. If ever a highway needed traffic calming, landscaping, etc this is the one.
I love talking about this stuff & not to be a downer, but the voice in the back of my head reminds me that it's kinda pointless until the city actually starts sticking to the plan & stops moratoriums.
Basically they need to put up or shut up, because right now its all talk. And so far I haven't seen anything that would lead me to believe that these moratoriums won't become the norm for this city. They seem like they have real trouble sticking to long term plans & instead go for these short bursts of "fixes".
Their budget issues & mismanagement isn't going to go away, so my feeling is that the mobility fee is always going to be the cookie jar they turn to if its set up to where they can do so.
A good thing about a complete streets policy is that if you spend $$ on roads you have to spend money on other modes at the same time, along the same facility or corridor.
So a complete streets policy would allow everyone to benefit from money that is going to be spent, no matter where the money comes from.
The context sensitive streets guidelines are okay but they don't apply to roads like Beach Blvd.
No, its not the best. However, with limited funds, what should be an initial priority? Retrofitting a corridor like Beach or creating new facilities in areas where there are no facilities despite them having significantly denser population bases? The mobility plan at least provided funding to get something off paper. Unfortunately, with the moratorium we can't even fund the minimum, much less big projects like a Beach retrofit. Btw, I have no problem with Complete Streets Policy, although it won't do anything to significantly improve bike conditions on Beach in the next 20 to 30 years.
Yes Lake, I've have the mobility plan, but I'm thinking of proposing a much different 'multi-use path' on at least one side of each of the roads mentioned. As everyone knows these roads are dangerous therefor I think it best if we pushed an agenda of a fully separate route for these trunk-line trails. You couldn't pay me to ride along in traffic in those stupid little spaces between cars turning right and cars going straight. The whole system in this part of Florida is dangerously flawed. Even if we focused only on one side of each of these boulevards, curb, barrier, or grade sepperated from auto traffic, it would give us the bones on which to add the greater system. If and when this city plans to impliment the Mobility Plan I just think it would be wise to focus on getting the frame work of a network in place first.
(http://mw2.google.com/mw-panoramio/photos/medium/23512708.jpg)
OCKLAWAHA
That picture is a dreadful sight.
Yes, the condition shown in that image is something a Complete Streets Policy would work to avoid.
Quote from: Dashing Dan on October 21, 2011, 01:17:14 PM
That picture is a dreadful sight.
what...you don't like the whole prison look?
Somebody put some effort into making it look attractive, and yet ...
Quote from: Ocklawaha on October 21, 2011, 10:57:17 AM
Why not set up primary targeted boulevards with a "complete streets" style improvement package, and focus those initial efforts at getting the primary avenues completed first.
I'd focus on San Jose, Philips, Southside, Beach, Atlantic, Merrill, Zoo-Hecksher, Main, Lem Turner, New Kings Road, Beaver, Blanding, Roosevelt and connector trails along University, Dunn and Edgewood, pushing at least one multi-use pathway on one side of the road, at or near the full length within the city limits.
OCKLAWAHA
Ocklawaha: If you could come to our next BPAC meeting I would like for us to discuss your idea. The next scheduled meeting is Thursday Nov 3, at 5:30 PM in the Lynwood Roberts Room of City Hall.
Personally I would suggest that we prioritize these routes based on their physical feasibility and their existing or potential usage by cyclists. San Jose has a lot of bicycle traffic now, but it might be hard to squeeze in a new trail along that route. Whether it is along Beach Blvd or if it cuts through the UNF campus or the St. Johns Town Center, there needs to be a safe way for cyclists to get out to the beach.
Half of those streets are in the mobility plan's bicycle project list. A number of them, such as Philips, Southside, Roosevelt, Main were also giving funding percentages to construct them as multi-use paths set back from the street. I'll post the mobility plan's list of bicycle projects and their cost estimates in the next hour or so. That way, you can see the cost associated with certain improvement projects and if any corridors align with whatever you're considering.
Here are the mobility plan bicycle projects:
(http://photos.metrojacksonville.com/Transit/COJ-Mobility-Plan-Bicycle-Mode/i-hBqGHGh/0/XL/Table-10-2030-Impovements-Plan-XL.jpg)
(http://photos.metrojacksonville.com/Transit/COJ-Mobility-Plan-Bicycle-Mode/i-JKM4zB2/0/XL/Table-10-2030-Impovements-Plan-XL.jpg)
(http://photos.metrojacksonville.com/Transit/COJ-Mobility-Plan-Bicycle-Mode/i-NtcCM45/0/XL/F20-COJ-2030-BICYCLE-PLAN-XL.jpg)
Grey = Existing Bicycle Facility
Blue = Committed Bicycle Facility (not included in mobility plan funding)
Red = Phase 1 - COJ Bicycle Master Plan
Orange = Tier 2 - 2030 Multimodal Plan
Green = Tier 3 - 2030 Multimodal Plan
Link to documents above in larger scale: http://photos.metrojacksonville.com/Transit/COJ-Mobility-Plan-Bicycle-Mode/19663113_5qrCBq#1542183971_hBqGHGh
Thanks. For the mobility plan, how were the multiuse paths selected?
I saw they were redoing Normandy Blvd today (from Herlong on down to the Equestrian Center) & looks like the shoulder is wider now. But there's no mention of adding any official bike signage or pavement markings in the alert: http://www.northfloridaroads.com/projects/details.asp?ProjectID=459
Why??
Quote from: Dashing Dan on October 21, 2011, 08:15:30 PM
Thanks. For the mobility plan, how were the multiuse paths selected?
They were corridors where the ROW is already in place to accommodate paths without much difficulty, along corridors with significant vehicular traffic. Long term, it was suggested that parallel multiuse paths be integrated with commuter rail corridors. Conditions in peer communities have proven that bikeways connecting mass transit stations can be a conduit to extend TOD corridors, while also buffering cyclist and pedestrians from vehicular traffic.
A multi-use path example that parallel's Charlotte's new LRT line.
(http://www.metrojacksonville.com/photos/thumbs/lrg-3002-flickr-weldonweaver.jpg)
(http://www.metrojacksonville.com/photos/thumbs/lrg-2996-flickr-704slacker-4.jpg)
I love what Detroit did. They put in the path, leaving ample space for future LRT. This is what we should have done with the S-Line.
(http://www.jjr-us.com/articles/1107/media/1578.jpg)
With good land use modification and integration with mass transit, I think this is possible for Jax between future rail stations.
(http://photos.metrojacksonville.com/photos/473698407_oxZPz-M.jpg)
Thanks. This is very interesting.
Going forward I'd like to see more engagement with stakeholders (i.e. cyclists, bike shop owners, etc)., along with some estimates or forecasts of bicycle ridership on proposed new paths.
St. Augustine just had a bicycle route study, but I think the last time that a bicycle plan was done for Jacksonville was in 1999.
Quote from: Dashing Dan on October 21, 2011, 09:20:30 PM
Thanks. This is very interesting.
Going forward I'd like to see more engagement with stakeholders (i.e. cyclists, bike shop owners, etc)., along with some estimates or forecasts of bicycle ridership on proposed new paths.
St. Augustine just had a bicycle route study, but I think the last time that a bicycle plan was done for Jacksonville was in 1999.
Actually, according to the North Florida TPO website - 2007:
http://www.firstcoastmpo.com/documents/bicycle_pedestrian/ click on the link to the PDF
Quote from: peestandingup on October 21, 2011, 08:26:14 PM
I saw they were redoing Normandy Blvd today (from Herlong on down to the Equestrian Center) & looks like the shoulder is wider now. But there's no mention of adding any official bike signage or pavement markings in the alert: http://www.northfloridaroads.com/projects/details.asp?ProjectID=459
Why??
if this is a rural road (no curb) than the shoulder is the bike lane...when designed as such, the 5' shoulder extends through right turn lanes just like a bike lane....whether is it is signed or marked specifically for bikes is another issue.
Quote from: Charles Hunter on October 21, 2011, 09:29:50 PM
Quote from: Dashing Dan on October 21, 2011, 09:20:30 PM
Thanks. This is very interesting.
Going forward I'd like to see more engagement with stakeholders (i.e. cyclists, bike shop owners, etc)., along with some estimates or forecasts of bicycle ridership on proposed new paths.
St. Augustine just had a bicycle route study, but I think the last time that a bicycle plan was done for Jacksonville was in 1999.
Actually, according to the North Florida TPO website - 2007:
http://www.firstcoastmpo.com/documents/bicycle_pedestrian/ click on the link to the PDF
This is the bicycle pedestrian plan that is currently posted on the bike-ped page of the City of Jacksonville website.
http://www.coj.net/Departments/Planning-and-Development/Docs/Community-Planning-Division/Transportation-Planning/bikeped-plan-1999.aspx (http://www.coj.net/Departments/Planning-and-Development/Docs/Community-Planning-Division/Transportation-Planning/bikeped-plan-1999.aspx)
It's dated 1999.
Interesting.
Quote from: tufsu1 on October 21, 2011, 09:30:41 PM
Quote from: peestandingup on October 21, 2011, 08:26:14 PM
I saw they were redoing Normandy Blvd today (from Herlong on down to the Equestrian Center) & looks like the shoulder is wider now. But there's no mention of adding any official bike signage or pavement markings in the alert: http://www.northfloridaroads.com/projects/details.asp?ProjectID=459
Why??
if this is a rural road (no curb) than the shoulder is the bike lane...when designed as such, the 5' shoulder extends through right turn lanes just like a bike lane....whether is it is signed or marked specifically for bikes is another issue.
Yeah, that stretch has no curb or sidewalk, so it probably is considered rural. And the lane does extend through the turn lanes as well (just check Google Maps). Thanks, that explains it.
Its def an improvement, I just think some simple signage/markings would go a long way to promote these things & to also make drivers more aware. It can't cost that much.
Tomorrow.
Tuesday 5pm.
St James bldg City Hall.
Voice your opinion.