Salvaging the Main Street Pocket Park
(http://www.metrojacksonville.com/photos/thumbs/lrg-3178-p1060242.JPG)
The destiny of the Main Street pocket park was predicted by urbanites long ago and now the prophecy has come true. Today Metro Jacksonville suggests some ways to turn a lemon into lemonade.
Full Article
http://www.metrojacksonville.com/content/view/673
Good article. I'm not really fond of parks in downtown...except for Friendship Fountain and Hemming Plaza. It would have been better for that place to have a skyscraper than a park::). I'm not dislikng Mayor Peyton, he's OK, but his pocket park idea would not make this great city a destination. I don't know about you, I would rather see more skyscrapers ;D.
City should have done the right thing for this space in the first place, instead of this poorly planned and executed temporary use -- RFP it to developers! 2 great results? Likely more retail and residential, and it's on the tax rolls!!!
While COJ is RFP'ing this space, how about adding a bunch of other downtown, city-owned property to the list?!?!
Quote from: jeh1980 on December 21, 2007, 06:22:46 AM
Good article. I'm not really fond of parks in downtown...except for Friendship Fountain and Hemming Plaza. It would have been better for that place to have a skyscraper than a park::). I'm not dislikng Mayor Peyton, he's OK, but his pocket park idea would not make this great city a destination. I don't know about you, I would rather see more skyscrapers ;D.
Great idea. We should just keep building and building...more concrete and steel and lots and lots of glass to reflect all the sunlight we have her in Florida. Screw plants. All they do is make this world livable afterall ::)
I agree with 'zoo' in that the right thing should have been done in the first place. But, as they say, hindsight is 20/20. We all know by now that no city or federal entity has the bigger picture in mind and it's all about immediate gratification for the here and now. Do it now, worry about the effects later...when they come back and hit us over the head.
Being a nature-lover, I'm all for the parks. The more grass and shade (provided by living trees) in an urban area, the better, in my opinion. But they're useless if it's hard to get to, there's nothing to do when I'm there, and I'm so worried about the homeless dude next to me that the smell of my fear overpowers the diesel fumes.
Incidently, you gotta love the way that they put the fence around the side with the Salvation Army, cause you know, THAT will keep those vagrants out, lol. What genius came up with that one??
Well said Stephen....however, I feel that even if they were hauled in front of the council, it wouldn't make much difference...they're kind of one of the same these days.
Pancake, you are correct, hindsight is 20/20. In this instance, no hindsight was needed.
Here is our discussion about it in June of 2006.
http://www.metjax.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2428
An RFP could have been issues for workforce style housing, with green elements as a required part of the request. Lakelander, on other threads on Metjax, even went so far as to find examples of buildings with green spaces built in. And as we also know, roof top terraces with live greenery are quickly becoming popular.
Here is more discussion about it a year Ago
http://www.metjax.com/forums/showthread.php?t=3756
Here is our official stance on the issue from December 2006:
http://www.metrojacksonville.com/content/view/280/115/
Ok. So everyone had all of this information and all of these ideas and when when was a vote instituted? I'm not being sarcastic, I'm serious. How was the decision made? And was all of this information presented? Was it brought to the attention of other Jax citizens? Honestly, and maybe this is because I'm now displaced from my natural element and surviving in Bay-Ghettos at the moment, but I heard nothing about this...not even anything promoting it, and you know the city is all about promoting their ideas regardless of how idiotic they may be. I'm more than a little concerned that there seem to be so many people against city council's decisions and yet I don't see a single protestor on the street, no opposition being reported on the news, and nothing in the papers (again, not even anything that would support these decisions). What's going on here? It seems to me that with all of these great ideas that MetJax members have/had (and those were great, btw), someone would pick up on it...someone with political clout if we're lucky, and just run with it. If nothing else at least it would be publicized. If I hadn't found this site, I would be in the dark on all of this...still.
QuoteIf I hadn't found this site, I'd be in the dark on all of this...still.
Welcome to the CAST Second Pancake... All of us around here are "in the dark"
Rocky Horror: Creature of the night
Brad Majors: Creature of the night?
Dr. Frank-N-Furter: Creature of the night
Magenta: Creature of the night
Riff Raff: Creature of the night
Columbia: Creature of the night
Rocky Horror: Creature of the night
Janet Weiss: Creature of the night!
Ocklawaha
Ok...not really sure what to make of that. I'm going to assume there was some little clever emoticon or something that was supposed to be diplayed after your name and respond with a, ;).
Btw, too funny...I just noticed in the first pic the truck behind the homeless reads, "Focused on Excellence." ROFLMAO. Very nice. Much like a pic I took on the streets of Salt Lake City, UT in which a homeless man was sleeping in alcove at the entrance to a business and the sign on the door above him read, "Advertising."
Second_Pancake: Creature of the Day...in bed by 9pm ;-)
The pocket parks Downtown present opportunities to evolve into more of a walkable urban core. This park was ill conceived but maybe the diverse retail and restaurants need the squares first.
Park filled with Vagrants
Metro Jacksonville speaks out
What will happen now
JeffreyS
What will happen now?
Probably what has been happening all along.
The city will have their heads up their personal places of darkness.
And the rest of the citizens of Jax will be in the same boat as second_pancake, IN THE DARK.
And for casual observer driving by the pocket park on main, how could they notice a park that doesn't even look like a park. Maybe a surface lot with trees?
The media in Jax never covers issues like this.
But from all the disturbance at JTA it appears the powers that be actually read what is written at sites like this.
If only more people would tune in they may learn something about these crazy projects before they begin.
"Creature of the Night," is a feature song and funny piece from The infamous:
Rocky Horror Picture Show
Something that more and more, I feel fits our City Hall, better then Riff Raff's Tux.
Ocklawaha
Hey, I know, let's have a spelling bee! Here's a thought, why not fill the new parklette with art, modern art, something that speaks to our TOTALLY MODERN City. The "NEW" world, not a scrap of history... Let's do it big. Here are just a few of my ideas for park statues in downtown.
(http://i196.photobucket.com/albums/aa111/Ocklawaha/ParkMayorJake.jpg)
Mayor Jake, maybe place the Skyway over his head?
(http://i196.photobucket.com/albums/aa111/Ocklawaha/ParkJacksonvillemayorsseat.jpg)
Park benches featuring our infamous leaders?
Moreover, what to do with this "park". I was up by the library the other day and thought since I had parked to the East, I'd cut through the new park. NOT! There is no way to do that, no angled walks, no steps over the walls. So how to fix the mess that has been made?
(http://i196.photobucket.com/albums/aa111/Ocklawaha/Parkwomeninstone.jpg)
Some of the Parks fair residents, as if they were working in stone?
(http://i196.photobucket.com/albums/aa111/Ocklawaha/ParkpieceofSstatue.jpg)
Maybe a statue to proclaim to the World that this park is a piece of... S%*T?
Maybe a couple of Springfield JTA bus shelter size kiosks that the City can lease to vendors? How about adding some walks that angle toward the Library entry or the park center? Maybe a nice seating wall, something to look at, like maybe a marker showing the various buildings they have torn down? Up at the top level a nice cascade of water coming down a series of mini falls, a real fake stream. A micro-plaza with interactive fountains that squirt water, bud or Southern comfort. Better yet, start the stream at the East end, and a giant statue of JAKE GODBOLD dressed as "Boss Hogg" pointing to the Skyway with one hand and hosing the stream with the other. I always did like those fountains with a little pissing kid.
(http://i196.photobucket.com/albums/aa111/Ocklawaha/ParkJacksonvillecitizens.jpg)
Statue of Jacksonvilles concerned citizens?
(http://i196.photobucket.com/albums/aa111/Ocklawaha/Parkbadleaderstatue.jpg)
In honor of all Jacksonville leadership?
Ocklawaha
The city permits vendor locations all over the downtown. Last time I checked the city had 32 locations( down from 39--I think) for street vendors. I know Hemming Plaza has 2 street vendor locations one at the north east near the library and one at the south west near the skyway. I don't think there's a vendor location at the new pocket park. Would a vendor make any money there? I guess if the vendor sold 1/2 spent cigarettes and practically empty beer bottles at .50 to a $1.00 they would. :) I bet one of those pay toilets I see people getting married in in NYC would make a ton of money!
http://newsfeedresearcher.com/data/articles_e51/ide2007.12.20.01.29.24.html
"The Bride Wore Two-Ply" :D
I think the best solution is to hand grenade it; no, just kidding. Obviously this park is a result of poor planning; and whoever planned this park needs to be fired. You need some type of communitive spark around such places to feed in the people that will make it a true park; without the people, it is a "pocket failure."
Being that the park is a failure, you can do one of two things, actually three, either build a ramp from the library over main street to the park, or put in attractions, statues, or even some type small scale venue or restaurant to attract people, or bulldoze it and wait for someone to purchase it or wait until retail, restaurants, etc. spring up around it to support the park or just sell it and let something else be built on the property.
Heights Unknown
Build a fence around it. That'll cause peole to want to get into it. Keeping people out has always caused people to want to go in. Check out the fence around this park. Okay, it's exclusive. Yes it's private. Yes it's the only private park in NYC and in fact the only private park in New York State! The people who own the apartments around Gramercy are all Tenants in Common and they alone own the park. You gotta have a key to get in or apparently a car. I asked one lady to let me in and she said "but how would you get out." Drew Berrymore, Modonna and Sandra Bullack all live there and jog in the park. (Drew gets her wheet grass juice around the corner.)
http://images.search.yahoo.com/images/view?back=http%3A%2F%2Fsearch.yahoo.com%2Fsearch%3Fei%3DUTF-8%26p%3Dgramercy%2BPark%2Bfence%2Bpictures&w=492&h=380&imgurl=www.startsandfits.com%2Fimages%2Fgramercy_fence.jpg&size=92.9&name=gramercy_fence.jpg&rcurl=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.startsandfits.com%2F2005%2F03%2Fwhoops.html&rurl=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.startsandfits.com%2F2005%2F03%2Fwhoops.html&p=gramercy+park+fence&type=jpeg&no=2&tt=14
Ock, that's a nice collection of statues. Something like those would help pull in more people than the amount using the park today..
Two of the best public parks I have ever been to in my life are:
Stewart Park in Ithaca, NY
and
Washington Square Park in NYC
Why Stewart Park is a success: Great Picnic area. The park is on the lakefront of Cayuga Lake. It is mostly grass, with sporadic grills and picnic tables throughout. Therefore, people set up shop for a big barbecue on a Sunday afternoon and then use the space for soccer, frisbee, volleyball etc after the meal. Also, Ithaca is full of hippies so periodic lake front drum concerts go down. There are also places to go biking, fishing, duck feeding, and playground equipment for kids at the park. In general, it is a fantastic place to be any day of the week. It is a center for the community. There is such a wide variety of things to do there for such a wide variety of people, all ages can be found: kids, college students, parents, grandparents.... a great mix! I miss having communities that are built around parks like this here in Jacksonville. Ithaca, a small college town of about 30000 people actually provided me a higher quality of life than here in Jacksonville...a town of 700000 people. Believe it or not, there are more great ideas coming from those 30000 people than the 700000 people here in Jax.
And now another city with more great ideas than Jax....NYC. Washington Park was a success because it does have a great fountain and archway. A place where people can take pictures and film movies! But for me its greatest feature was people watching and Joey Joey. Joey Joey was a street performer from the Bronx. Every Saturday night in the summer, I would see him putting on his show in Washington Park: riding on a unicycle, juggling flaming torches, making jokes about New Jersey, and entertaining people with his NYC attitude and style. His act was appealing to all ages, all ethnicities, locals, and tourists.
In comparison to these parks, the pocket park is literally nothing to speak of. And this is what I notice about Jax parks in general. The COJ website brags about having one of the largest park systems in the country. Well, for such a large city, I would hope so! But most of the parks listed are very small, out of public view, and barely used by anyone. For instance, I live in Baymeadows and the best local "park" I have is the abandoned golf course there. And the only park in my mind in Jax that has appeal and is the center of a community is the Memorial Park in Riverside. That park is great. Also, Riverfront Park in San Marco is cool, but way too small. Am I wrong about this? Is there a cool park anywhere in Jax where people go to hang out and be seen? To spend an afternoon? To have a picnic? To take their kids? To read a book? To play soccer? To play bocci? Is this the twilight zone?
Quote from: Ocklawaha on November 15, 2007, 11:19:51 PM
Mandarin, back in the day!
(http://i196.photobucket.com/albums/aa111/Ocklawaha/NEFLLIVESTEAMERS.jpg)
South of Green Cove Springs today!
Ocklawaha
What if we put one of these jobbers. It would be an attraction right. People on their way thru could stop and ride the Free Train...would the JTA ever go for something like this. (A transportation system that goes nowhere with no rider ship? ha!) How much would it cost us to put in a lil choo choo train like this in that park.
The more I think about it the more I think it works. It could be a "Mass Transit Education Center" where we teach the young and the old about mass transit and the benefits there of. There's probably federal dollars available for something like a transportation re-eduction center.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I57Kk8jlqE4&feature=related
It'd bet totally awesome. The little ones that go to the library could stop next door and ride one of the 7 1/4 thingys.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=63lVrFQtr2Y&feature=related
We could total keep the statue concept as well. They could be transportation dinosaurs like this concrete car
(http://www.sydneyolympicpark.com.au/__data/assets/image/0008/49283/Untitled_concretecar1.jpg)
These are so cute and available
(http://www.worldslargestthings.com/store/carstopsSubheader.jpg)
Quote from: NJ to JAX WHAT DID I DO? on December 23, 2007, 12:18:14 AM
Two of the best public parks I have ever been to in my life are:
Stewart Park in Ithaca, NY
and
Washington Square Park in NYC
Why Stewart Park is a success: Great Picnic area. The park is on the lakefront of Cayuga Lake. It is mostly grass, with sporadic grills and picnic tables throughout. Therefore, people set up shop for a big barbecue on a Sunday afternoon and then use the space for soccer, frisbee, volleyball etc after the meal. Also, Ithaca is full of hippies so periodic lake front drum concerts go down. There are also places to go biking, fishing, duck feeding, and playground equipment for kids at the park. In general, it is a fantastic place to be any day of the week. It is a center for the community. There is such a wide variety of things to do there for such a wide variety of people, all ages can be found: kids, college students, parents, grandparents.... a great mix! I miss having communities that are built around parks like this here in Jacksonville. Ithaca, a small college town of about 30000 people actually provided me a higher quality of life than here in Jacksonville...a town of 700000 people. Believe it or not, there are more great ideas coming from those 30000 people than the 700000 people here in Jax.
And now another city with more great ideas than Jax....NYC. Washington Park was a success because it does have a great fountain and archway. A place where people can take pictures and film movies! But for me its greatest feature was people watching and Joey Joey. Joey Joey was a street performer from the Bronx. Every Saturday night in the summer, I would see him putting on his show in Washington Park: riding on a unicycle, juggling flaming torches, making jokes about New Jersey, and entertaining people with his NYC attitude and style. His act was appealing to all ages, all ethnicities, locals, and tourists.
In comparison to these parks, the pocket park is literally nothing to speak of. And this is what I notice about Jax parks in general. The COJ website brags about having one of the largest park systems in the country. Well, for such a large city, I would hope so! But most of the parks listed are very small, out of public view, and barely used by anyone. For instance, I live in Baymeadows and the best local "park" I have is the abandoned golf course there. And the only park in my mind in Jax that has appeal and is the center of a community is the Memorial Park in Riverside. That park is great. Also, Riverfront Park in San Marco is cool, but way too small. Am I wrong about this? Is there a cool park anywhere in Jax where people go to hang out and be seen? To spend an afternoon? To have a picnic? To take their kids? To read a book? To play soccer? To play bocci? Is this the twilight zone?
Memorial Park, Boone Park and Riverside Park are the three that I can think of, with Memorial Park fitting the description more of a public square.
Hemming once was and still has the potential to gain its lost luster, but its being ruined by a lack of foresight for the new uses coming in around it. Imo, the next urban public space to regain its lost luster will probably be the chain of parks lining Hogan's Creek, between Downtown and Springfield. There's been a significant turn around there in the past two or three years.
Quote from: Metro Jacksonville
The destiny of the Main Street pocket park was predicted by urbanites long ago and now the prophecy has come true. Today Metro Jacksonville suggests some ways to turn a lemon into lemonade.
So, who died and left Metro jacksonville to say that the parks are lemons to begin with.
Why do you think the parks belong to you and that you should have any say who uses them?
umm, let me take a stab at it....because the public (ex. me/you, etc.) paid/pay for them?
Park's in general aren't lemons, but most would agree that this particular location is one instance where we would have been better off spending $700k of taxpayer money somewhere else.
not being one, it's public they have as much right to it as the rest of us don't you think?
Who are they? Everyone has a right to use it and I would hope more people would. However, that does not justify the expense if you could have done better elsewhere with the same amount of money.
Will do. Living on the street is tough. Nobody wants you. You can't get a job. You can't afford to ride the bus. Nobody wants you on their property. You're pretty much screwed all around. And if it's a public park then let them have it. If it cost $1M, $2M, I'm sorry that's just the way it is I'm sure one of the good old boys got the contract poured a lot of concrete and paid taxes and employed their friends.
I see this one asian lady everybody at the bus stop. With her bags. That could be you. It practically was me if not for friends, but not everybody has that support network.
Quote from: thelakelander on May 13, 2008, 01:29:58 PM
Who is they? Everyone has a right to use it and I would hope more people would. However, that does not justify the expense if you could have done better elsewhere with the same amount of money.
Jacksonville? Justify the expense. Listen to what you're saying. lol
That doesn't mean its right. You strive to do better. If there were not people who would strive to make better uses out of the city's resources it would be worse off today. For residents and the homeless. Don't get trick into accepting status quo. If that were the case, people like me would still be forced to sit at the back of the bus or pick cotton with no pay.
I salute the taxpayers that elected those council members that built that park because if just one person found a peaceful moment from the tragic lives they live, which you are only lucky to not have been dealt, then to me it was worth it.
Spend the night at the Salvation Army stephen, and let us let us know how the homeless feel because until you've spent the night in their slippers, you have no idea what it is to be homeless.
Not every homeless person wants to stay there as you are very aware of. At least the park gives them a little bit safer place. Just talked to 3 homeless tonight. Each day is a challenge and that night is just one aspect of their life my friend.
Okay, fine, why stop at that park, or my apartment, let's undo some of Theodore Roosevelt's achievements as well. Ex conservation. Forget the national forests in the West, screw the reserved lands for public use, and all he fostered as far as irrigation projects go. Let's just go there now Stephen.
It's a nice park. People would give their first born to have a nice place as that. What's the bottom line per capita for that park. A buck? What's that over 20 years? A nickle.
Stephen...when was the last time you were in that park....they installed doggie clean-up bags several months ago and its been much better ever since!
I would post images I took this past Saturday, but I don't think its good to put them online. Let's just say looks can be deceiving up close. If you're visiting the space, just watch where you're walking and avoid the dark green patches of grass because they are a little more fertilized than the others.
While I still believe it was a bad idea of putting a park in this location and the spending $700k on it, its there now and I would hope the city can find a way to make it attract a multitude of people to really use and enjoy it. At this point, its just scenery for cars driving down Main and an outdoor bathroom from dogs and residents that don't use the doggie clean-up bags. Whether its becomes a picnic area with benches, pavilions and tot lots, a sculpture garden, farmers/vendor's market or a dog park, we need to find a way to get better use out of our investment.
I would say get rid of it and build something else that can be of better public use on that piece of property; movie theater, park with sculpture and statues, etc., anything but a doggie pocket park. Our city leaders don't know how to be creative it seems.
Heights Unknown
Its official. The city now considers this space complete.
QuoteMayor John Peyton was able to get the weather to cooperate Thursday afternoon and officially opened Main Street Park across from the Library. City Council member Don Redman, Carol Worsham of HDR (the designers of the park), Peyton, Jacksonville Economic Development Commission Executive Director Ron Barton, Roslyn Mixon-Phillips, director of the City's Recreation and Community Services Department and JEDC Deputy Executive Director Paul Crawford, of JEDC cut the ribbon the park. The project included converting a parking lot and features a series of grass terraces lined with oak trees and date palms.
http://www.jaxdailyrecord.com/showstory.php?Story_id=50277
Check out the Main St Park on the Street View of Google Earth.
I read last week that MOCA was involved in possibly getting a sculpture moved there - is that correct? Of course, that may just be like putting lipstick on a pig at this point........
Here's that story:
http://www.jaxdailyrecord.com/showstory.php?Story_id=50230&text=sculpture
I assume it's the same place.
Yes, the old sculpture that was in front of the 550 Building on Water Street, will be relocated to the empty brick space in the pocket park. I guess its better than nothing. Its interesting to compare this space with Memorial Park in Riverside. I'm sure the excuses will role in but we would benefit by taking a few lessons from the park planners of the early 20th century.
I worked at the 550 Water Street building for 7 years. God, I hated looking at that sculpter every day. I'd rather see the homeless then that old thing.
do you think the grass sections are 39' wide? i'm thinking about bringing out some poles and a net and setting up a volleyball game during a weekday lunch (if the dog mess isn't too bad)! anyone interested, pm me.
It wouldn't hurt, but you will need to go around with a pooper scooper first.
Great idea. That would be one way to make use of the empty space.
I see though that the local dogs have decided to deposit in the park their opinion as to the park. :D
Quote from: zoo on July 22, 2008, 08:50:42 PM
do you think the grass sections are 39' wide? i'm thinking about bringing out some poles and a net and setting up a volleyball game during a weekday lunch (if the dog mess isn't too bad)! anyone interested, pm me.
Great idea!
Seriously, you might need to bring cash to bail yourself out of jail as I'm sure JSo would have a problem with your plan.
QuoteRants & Raves: Downtown landscaping is lacking
I would like to rant about the upkeep of the landscaped areas that belong to the city in the downtown area. There is a small park on the back side of the new library downtown. This park area has not been maintained since before Thanksgiving. As a resident of downtown, I do try to take pride in the area in which I live and have called the city three times and complained about the situation to no avail. The grass has not been tended to in five months, there are weeds waist-high in the grass and plant beds, as well as the surrounding landscaping. I just feel this looks totally disgraceful.
http://www.jacksonville.com/news/metro/2009-03-31/story/downtown_landscaping_is_lacking
I drove by there not to long ago. What a waste and then when you think of other areas like Klutho park which also is unkept. City leaders should be ashame of the years of neglect this city has faced.
Yawn......anyone move the bums out of Hemming Plaza yet?????
Does anyone know what legal routes we have as citizens to get the city to do it's basic duties?
The election process is the best way.