There have been quite a number of Skyway discussions here, and I've learned quite a bit. But I haven't learned WHY some alternative revenue streams are not pursued by the JTA with the Skyway facilities. I see that some people consider the JTA to be not very competent, but they can't walk around with their eyes closed, can they? JTA must have some kind of explanation (even if weak and unconvincing) for, for example:
Little or no advertising in the stations, no vendors ever in the bottom of a station, no kids sitting with some of his / her paintings for a few hours in a station, some wrap advertising, advertising on a roof of a car that can be seen from offices above in the towers...even if it wouldn't be much money, shouldn't everything possible be done?
I don't think the powers that be in this city think that the skyway is not for this city and should have never been build and would love to see it torn down..personally i'd love to see it go right down philips highway and attach to a rail going south..and then up the middle of 95 out to the airport..then right along JTB to the beach...i can't think of any reason not to look for more revenue sources..how about higher ridership?
It would be hard to sell snacks or coffee at a skyway station, given that the JTA doesn't allow any eating or drinking.
Jdog, you're asking questions several of us would like to know. We've been asking and suggesting for years. So far no answer from JTA. Only cries of not enough dedicated funding for mass transit.
And I can understand that policy. Last week in Boston when my wife and I were using Public transportation I had just made a new cup of coffee for the ride. The door opens and the driver says no drinks. I had to go and just throw it in the garbage. Didn't make that miscue again. I'm warming to rail. I'd like to see the focus on a fixed line streetcar from the Prime Osborn to the stadium.
You can still have that policy and lease ground level kiosk space in skyway stations.
Quote from: thelakelander on October 15, 2011, 09:46:01 AM
Jdog, you're asking questions several of us would like to know. We've been asking and suggesting for years. So far no answer from JTA. Only cries of not enough dedicated funding for mass transit.
Lake, You guys are the Tail of Rail and I can just appreciate how you guys have been ignored for years. But people are listening. Same can be said of the Waterways. What is the monthly cost of a ground level kiosk space?
Quote from: Noone on October 15, 2011, 09:52:09 AM
And I can understand that policy. Last week in Boston when my wife and I were using Public transportation I had just made a new cup of coffee for the ride. The door opens and the driver says no drinks. I had to go and just throw it in the garbage. Didn't make that miscue again.
I'd like for this policy to be changed, if only to generate some activity near bus stops. Also, people would be more likely to take a bus if they could eat and ride at the same time.
JTA has already been shown how to make money at their facilities - look no farther than the hotels at Kings Avenue. They had an empty surface parking lot in front of the garage and were approached by a developer about a lease. Part of the lease includes spaces in the nearly empty garage. Both the developer and the hotel operator will tell you that the Skyway is a large part of why they chose the location. However, it would work much better and get more ridership if the Skyway actually connected to the garage. When the lease was created, space was intentionally set aside between the hotel and garage for an extension.
The next logical project at Kings Avenue will be to relocate the storm water ponds to the east (near the old Southside Generating station) and construct a true mixed use TOD. Throughout the last 4 years, several out-of-town groups have expressed interest in apartments and a grocery store. Combine the right project at the right time with a little cooperation from JTA and this will happen.
The JTA deserve some credit here.
They worked with another developer at the Jefferson skyway station, but that one was a victim of the real estate downtown.
I'd like to see them take advantage of the small things like train wrap advertising, duplicate bus route elimination and retail kiosk leasing at skyway stations. None are as sexy or headline news making like TOD or actual expansion. However, they'll go a long way to improving service and operational costs.
Quote from: Dashing Dan on October 15, 2011, 11:00:30 AM
Quote from: Noone on October 15, 2011, 09:52:09 AM
And I can understand that policy. Last week in Boston when my wife and I were using Public transportation I had just made a new cup of coffee for the ride. The door opens and the driver says no drinks. I had to go and just throw it in the garbage. Didn't make that miscue again.
I'd like for this policy to be changed, if only to generate some activity near bus stops. Also, people would be more likely to take a bus if they could eat and ride at the same time.
I don't know what the policy is in Jax. But the bus was clean and we did make a couple of short stops. Hold on! And I can understand how small kids, adults, you drop your food or drink and then WOW! Who's cleaning up that mess. Now a long greyhound bus ride may have a different policy.
Amtrack had the dining car. Loved it.
personally I feel the council wants it to fail. If it was sustainable or even profitable, then certain people would be proved wrong and they don't want this. You are absolutely right.
Quote from: jcjohnpaint on October 15, 2011, 02:11:00 PM
personally I feel the council wants it to fail. If it was sustainable or even profitable, then certain people would be proved wrong and they don't want this. You are absolutely right.
Agreed 100%
Quote from: thelakelander on October 15, 2011, 01:57:33 PM
I'd like to see them take advantage of the small things like train wrap advertising, duplicate bus route elimination and retail kiosk leasing at skyway stations. None are as sexy or headline news making like TOD or actual expansion. However, they'll go a long way to improving service and operational costs.
We've had entire threads dedicated to this topic. How much would it cost to wrap the vehicles? If we can afford it for buses, why not the trains? Is it because we have bashed it so much that no respectable company would want to be associated with it?
Our airports had no real public image problem, yet JAA spent quite a bit of money rebranding them. It is beyond time to rebrand the Skyway.
The JTA would be the ones who make the call I believe not the council.
Quote from: dougskiles on October 15, 2011, 04:00:06 PMHow much would it cost to wrap the vehicles? If we can afford it for buses, why not the trains?
As for wrapping buses, does anyone else think it's creepy to see enormous portraits of personal injury attorneys moving across downtown and through our neighborhoods?
Playing around and noticed that the Detroit People Mover sells naming rights to their stations (I'm not saying it could work here -- that I don't know)...but it's interesting.
http://www.crainsdetroit.com/article/20110912/FREE/110919984/metropcs-communications-buys-naming-rights-to-people-mover-8217-s-greektown-stop#
Quote from: Jdog on October 15, 2011, 07:37:28 AM
There have been quite a number of Skyway discussions here, and I've learned quite a bit. But I haven't learned WHY some alternative revenue streams are not pursued by the JTA with the Skyway facilities. I see that some people consider the JTA to be not very competent, but they can't walk around with their eyes closed, can they? JTA must have some kind of explanation (even if weak and unconvincing) for, for example:
Little or no advertising in the stations, no vendors ever in the bottom of a station, no kids sitting with some of his / her paintings for a few hours in a station, some wrap advertising, advertising on a roof of a car that can be seen from offices above in the towers...even if it wouldn't be much money, shouldn't everything possible be done?
Revenue sources matter much much less than expansion of it to a different area.
I think that revenue sources are purely, err, decorative.
There's always a level of reality that has to play into these discussions. Most here will agree that expansion of mass transit in general is needed. However, there's little political will or money available at the moment for expansion. In the meantime, there are several things that can be done to limit the amount of money it loses, while also becoming more efficient for the population that already uses it.
Quote from: Dashing Dan on October 15, 2011, 04:15:22 PM
As for wrapping buses, does anyone else think it's creepy to see enormous portraits of personal injury attorneys moving across downtown and through our neighborhoods?
Isn't it redundant to use the words "creepy" and "attorneys" in the same sentence? :)
Quote from: JeffreyS on October 15, 2011, 04:13:41 PM
The JTA would be the ones who make the call I believe not the council.
...And that's all of the reasons for not expanding Skyway revenue.
OCKLAWAHA
Quote from: urbanlibertarian on October 16, 2011, 10:50:04 AM
Quote from: Dashing Dan on October 15, 2011, 04:15:22 PM
As for wrapping buses, does anyone else think it's creepy to see enormous portraits of personal injury attorneys moving across downtown and through our neighborhoods?
Isn't it redundant to use the words "creepy" and "attorneys" in the same sentence? :)
How about creepy
2 ?