Seeing as the growth of highways in Orlando grew to this:
(http://www.visualphotos.com/photo/2x3869667/aerial_view_of_a_multiple_lane_highway_in_a_city_gwt172072.jpg)
I'm beginning to think the US 17 and Fuller Warren exits/entrances are becoming to get like this.
Not at the level YET, but close ; what do you think? grow or no?
Grow, YES. More highways, NO.
IMO, highways are a necessity in this country and will likely never go away. However, I would rather see alternative modes of reliable transportation implemented to try and help traffic conditions BEFORE more highways are expanded. Although there are a couple corridors/interchanges that could use some upgrades (i.e. the I295/I95 south interchange) but for the most part we can provide more inprovements through smart mass transit than building more highways.
RANDOM THOUGHTS ON ROADS
Highways within the actual populated areas of the metro should be well maintained (which they're not) and expanded as needed. This is a limited, captive area and no matter where the developers build they will add strain to these intra-city roads. There is also some improvement to be made to the roads we already have which were poorly conceived. There is no access to or from 95 south at Atlantic, worse still, except for what amounts to a 'Main Street Expressway' and 'Acosta Bridge Expressway' there is no easy access to the southbank from 95. If you are going east on the Fuller Warren, you have good access to Baptist Hospital and San Marco's Oklahoma neighborhood, but if you are going north on 95 it resembles something dreamed up by Rube Goldberg. JTA builds a multimillion dollar garage, Skyway extension, multi-modal center and leases land to two urban hoteliers and they sit EMPTY because people simply can't find them.
One also has to wonder what idiot planned the 90 degree turn on the MLK? The new interchange contract has been let but they should be thinking TRUCK TO AND FROM THE PORT, and not just a simple way onto 21st street. End the damn thing on Talleyrand, (which should be four lanes in it's entirety) and label the new East-West road the MLK, and the now detached North-South road the HARBOR EXPRESWAY, consider every directional sign pointing out access to the 'HARBOR EXPRESSWAY' along 95 as a banner ad for our port. This is the type of thing we should be doing.
The same idiot that designed the 90 degree on MLK may also have designed the original I-4/East-West expressway interchange in the photo above, yes it's massive, but it's internal and needed a serious makeover.
Another area where continuous money is going to be needed is in our bridge situation, sooner or later we will need to address another St. Johns Crossing, and it's a toss up between a University-Timuquana alignment, or perhaps a Kingsley Avenue crossing over to Mandarin. The Matthews bridge is in poor shape, and fails it's safety rating, the Arlington River Bridge on University also fails, as does the OVERLAND-BRIDGE on the southbank which is in REAL DANGER of collapse... I know this because the designer/engineer of these bridges and replacement projects lives 2 houses down from me.
I've also said it before and it's worth repeating until our historical community starts talking about it, that the GRAND AVENUE bridge, which gets an occasional facelift is an aging, ornate, landmark. We have two choices, either rip it down like we did the Lee Street Viaduct, or Palatka's beautiful old Great War Memorial Bridge, or do the St. Augustine thing and threaten to leave the Union if the state imperils this bridge. Grand Avenue's days may be numbered.
Roads are not bad because they are roads. Roads are bad because they DO NOT MOVE PEOPLE, they are designed to move cars. It's with this mindset that transit poor Florida leads the nation in pedestrian/bicycle - automobile collisions. Constantly improving the current roadways stands a chance of at least making them safer for people. The automobile culture of Florida is dangerous. In Los Angeles, freeway capital of the world, if you happen to get anywhere near a cross walk, every damn car within 2 blocks comes to a complete and immediate stop... DON'T TRY THAT HERE.
We have one remotely possible external highway project that I'd offer my qualified support to, the onetime proposed I-22 multi-modal corridor (JAX-KC).
Under no condition should we be building freeways, toll roads, or other highways out through pristine antediluvian forest land. Every project should have a serious independent alternatives study free of FDOT or JTA directives.
OCKLAWAHA
Ock.... you mention the Overland Bridge on the Southbank . Forgive my ignorance.. I thought much of that was replaced as the Fuller Warren was? or are we talking about a original part of the Jacksonville Expressway system that has never been replaced.
I have suspected for sometime that the Matthews HAS to be structurally deficient, and while replacing the grating on the bridge with concrete, sure smoothed the ride out across the bridge , I always questioned since the bridge was not originally designed with concrete in the middle, was that change a much heavier substitute to the grating material that was once there.
Also since its stucturally deficient, I wonder why ($20 Million? ) is being spent on it to paint it , rather than banked to replace the bridge?
I-95 corridor going North has always been a nightmare. I guess the 10/95 merger had to happen, but other than that, I do not see where it is substantially easier to maneuver in that area.
Quote from: Timkin on October 19, 2011, 11:19:30 PM
Ock.... you mention the Overland Bridge on the Southbank . Forgive my ignorance.. I thought much of that was replaced as the Fuller Warren was? or are we talking about a original part of the Jacksonville Expressway system that has never been replaced.
I have suspected for sometime that the Matthews HAS to be structurally deficient, and while replacing the grating on the bridge with concrete, sure smoothed the ride out across the bridge , I always questioned since the bridge was not originally designed with concrete in the middle, was that change a much heavier substitute to the grating material that was once there.
Also since its stucturally deficient, I wonder why ($20 Million? ) is being spent on it to paint it , rather than banked to replace the bridge?
I-95 corridor going North has always been a nightmare. I guess the 10/95 merger had to happen, but other than that, I do not see where it is substantially easier to maneuver in that area.
I don't see why the paint job is needed either. Thing is scary as hell, make it smaller. *haha*
It's kinda funny how alot of people think that new highways (going through pristine wilderness, and converting that into livable suburban sprawl) doesn't add to the growth of the city. Unpopular as it is, there's no denying that suburban sprawl ADDS to the metro area's growth; Last time I checked our metro area is only 1.5 mil, with plenty of more room to grow; It's not like every damn pine tree in Jax is from the Osceola Natl' Forest for gawdsakes! Worrying about the lost of some forest trees in Jax is like worrying about the lost of salt water at Jax Beach. I don't(and never will) understand the philosophy of abandoning everything surburban, and only concentrating EXCLUSIVELY on the urban part of the city. Where do you think most of a city's metro area population comes from? It damn sure aint from the heart of the city. I love vibrancy, no matter where it's at, urban, or suburban.
All growth isn't good growth. Especially, if it's the kind that doesn't pay for itself and undermines the existing market base, due to oversupply. That's the lesson Jacksonville has yet to learn and council is evidently struggling with, with the recent approval of the mobility fee moratorium. With that said, I love good growth in both the core and the suburbs.
Good Suburban Growth Example: Baymeadows Junction
(http://www.metrojacksonville.com/photos/thumbs/lrg-6710-p1150557.JPG)
The redevelopment of an abandoned warehouse into a retail/office/showroom complex. No new infrastructure needed.
Good Suburban Growth Example: Tapestry Park
(http://photos.metrojacksonville.com/photos/1455289052_DSwT2W4-M.jpg)
Project places a mix of uses on a relatively small site, reducing the amount of auto trips a typical suburban development this size would put on surrounding roads.
Bad Suburban Growth Example: Bartram Park
(http://www.metrojacksonville.com/photos/thumbs/lrg-6584-bartramparkaerialsiteplan.jpg)
9,700 residential units all with separate gated entrances to one street, leading to one interchange with I-95. The result is the interchange backs up onto the interstate at rush hour. To facilitate the negative impacts of a poor overall site layout, the general public is on the hook for new highways like 9B.
^^^You're right as always, what else can I say? LOL. You've always been open-minded when it comes to development of all types, and you definitely don't have 'urban development tunnel vision' like many on MJ.
Going back to the ultra simple original post quiz.......
As to US 17 and Fuller Warren future build out,tone and feel,landscape compared to Orlando example can not be assumed to be equal simply due to roadway.Surrounding/contiguous land ownership,vested development breadth and depth,regs will dictate.Not to assume will morph to Orlando example. iLenon ,one can access public records and ascertain future development scope.....pending any revisions of course.