Metro Jacksonville

http://www.bizjournals.com/jacksonville/news/2011/10/13/orlando-manufacturing-payrolls-hit.html

Area comes in 82nd in the country behind such cities as Boise, Evansville IN, Madison WI, Lancaster PA, Manchester NH, and our peer cities.

Thoughts?  The article makes $1.3B out to be a large number but fails to do any sort of journalistic comparison to other cities that we should be competing against for these jobs.

When the banks too over the city...manufacturing went away...this city went from a busy city where almost anyone could find a job...now we are a service city..serving hambergers and collecting bills...that's about the only thing left here...there's more money apparently in servicing loans....lots of tax breaks for banks..but try to make a sock company...and you're screwed...no breaks for that.

Take a drive up thorough Springfield's warehouse district & it's pretty apparent that we have a manufacturing problem in this city.

Nothing really shocking here.  Jacksonville hasn't been a manufacturing center since the mid 20th century.  The days of having our economy powered by manufacturing/shipbuilding powerhouses like Ford, Merrill-Stevens, Gibbs, Alton Box, Jax Brewing, Howard Feed Mills, etc. are long gone.

We are not a manufacturing area, we are a service area. Many white collar jobs and customer service than most other areas.

The cost of living and income in a place like Boise ID is very similar to Jacksonville. So yes, while we don't have the manufacturing areas, we do make up for it in other fields.

it pays to be diverse in jobs, and not focus on one thing, hence why we are currently sitting on high unemployment.

Yeah went from manufactoring, to banking and insurance, and now we are in limbo somewhere. After the majority of the banks and insurance company folded, didnt leave much left.

Jacksonville, "The City Beautiful, The American Tropics, Queen of the Winter Resorts."

Jacksonville, "The Gateway City, ...a city with more in common with Newark, NJ then Atlanta."

Jacksonville, "Bold New City of the South, Banking Capital of Florida, The Hartford of the South."

Jacksonville, "River City By The Sea, The First Coast..."

Anyone else notice a trend here?

OCKLAWAHA

Quotewe have a manufacturing problem in this city.

Who cares, we have 20% of our GDP around Medical Support. If we grow Medical with the Baby Boomers, eventually the Medical jobs can overtake the slimy Financial jobs.

What's so great about manufacturing?  I'd rather work in an office than a factory.  Robotics is the cutting edge in manufacturing so the future is in programming robots and maintaining them.

     I’ve always enjoyed the idea of manufacturing.  The human desire and ability to design and build is pretty fundamental, as we humans have been building things for thousands of years.  There is great satisfaction in building a wooden toy for pleasure, or in building a house to sell or an airplane to fly.

     If you’ve ever built a house or a boat, you will know what I mean.  It’s an element within which most human types feel comfortable, and find themselves eagerly wanting to finish the project, to feel and see the final function and beauty of it.

     Manufacturing and building is the opposite of destruction.  Whereas destruction takes only brute force and chaos within the mind, building something takes imagination, creativity, precision, and skill. 

     There is something special and magical that happens as one at first imagines the finished project, then the process, the materials, and then works upon the project for an hour, or for years, through to completion.

     So………… yes, I would be one of the first to wish upon our city a new manufacturing plant, or the building of anything, as it would be natural to our abilities, and accommodate our need for the simple satisfaction of making things, and our need to employ workers. 

     I’ve often thought about what could be manufactured, what market or product is not being produced sufficiently to fill the demand, or what new product might one envision that is not yet been made.  But alas, it seems that the Japanese, the Chinese, and the Koreans are already manufacturing to cover the demand, and they are able to make things at a much cheaper cost than would be the case with most American workers.

     It would be great if we were able to convince a manufacturer of some kind of product to open a facility right in the downtown area.  They could employ some of the fellows who are always hanging out in Hemming Park, not as physicists of course, but to work at whatever they are capable of.   

     Robots?  Sally Industries, on the west fringe of the city, manufactures various kinds of robots.  However, I think they do so mostly per special order for specific types.   
           
       

'Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it.'
Life of Reason, Reason in Common Sense, Scribner's, 1905, page 284"

Of course we could just blow it off and create a few more office jobs. I just have this nagging feeling we'll eventually reap what we've sown in the Orient. "Et tu, Brute? Then fall, Caesar!"

OCKLAWAHA

Quote from: urbanlibertarian on October 16, 2011, 06:13:35 PM
What's so great about manufacturing?  I'd rather work in an office than a factory.  Robotics is the cutting edge in manufacturing so the future is in programming robots and maintaining them.

There are actually a lot of people out there who will tell you "I prefer to work with my hands". Robotics may be the future, but I think there will always be a place for those types of people somewhere in the equation of making things.

OCKLAWAHA

It will be real interesting to see if they went by city limits instead of metro area; Those numbers would look ALOT more impressive, although we aren't a manufacturing hotbed. Of course Miami is the number one metro for manufacturing in FL; It's not too fair of a comparasion when you hafta include 417 cities scattered throughout the entire South FL region. Look at our Fortune 500's, those are our strengths; Railroad, mortgage, and grocery. Not to mention military, and healthcare.

Quote from: urbanlibertarian on October 16, 2011, 06:13:35 PM
What's so great about manufacturing?  I'd rather work in an office than a factory.  Robotics is the cutting edge in manufacturing so the future is in programming robots and maintaining them.

The words.."I'd rather in an office than a factor"...are exactly the reason why our country is in the pits when it comes to manufacturing. No body wants to get hot..no body want to get dirty..airconditioners and keyboards...i call it the "pussying" of america...we use to be the toughest group on the block..now...we are full of a bunch of winney pansy people. We can't all service eachothers loans and make each other hamburgers...it's nice to have a service industry but until we actually start to make things...our path to dependency is set in stone and we as a country are all fucked.

Quote from: mtraininjax on October 16, 2011, 05:44:45 PM

Quotewe have a manufacturing problem in this city.

Who cares, we have 20% of our GDP around Medical Support. If we grow Medical with the Baby Boomers, eventually the Medical jobs can overtake the slimy Financial jobs.

Quote from: urbanlibertarian on October 16, 2011, 06:13:35 PM
What's so great about manufacturing?  I'd rather work in an office than a factory.  Robotics is the cutting edge in manufacturing so the future is in programming robots and maintaining them.

Sure. But the issue is that this contributes to a nationwide problem. We don't really produce anything anymore, for overseas exports or even for ourselves. We're basically just one big consuming nation now that's based on debt, loans & all kinds of other crap. This is a big reason why our country's in the toilet right now. Hell, we don't even consume food that's made anywhere close to us for the most part. No one knows where it comes from & no one cares.

That's why you can visit almost any city in the US now & they'll have their own version of our abandoned Springfield warehouse district. Oh, most of those things that were once there are still being manufactured, its just not here. Its a problem.

Quote from: peestandingup on October 17, 2011, 08:07:22 AM

Quote from: mtraininjax on October 16, 2011, 05:44:45 PM

Quotewe have a manufacturing problem in this city.

Who cares, we have 20% of our GDP around Medical Support. If we grow Medical with the Baby Boomers, eventually the Medical jobs can overtake the slimy Financial jobs.

Quote from: urbanlibertarian on October 16, 2011, 06:13:35 PM
What's so great about manufacturing?  I'd rather work in an office than a factory.  Robotics is the cutting edge in manufacturing so the future is in programming robots and maintaining them.

Sure. But the issue is that this contributes to a nationwide problem. We don't really produce anything anymore, for overseas exports or even for ourselves. We're basically just one big consuming nation now that's based on debt, loans & all kinds of other crap. This is a big reason why our country's in the toilet right now. Hell, we don't even consume food that's made anywhere close to us for the most part. No one knows where it comes from & no one cares.

That's why you can visit almost any city in the US now & they'll have their own version of our abandoned Springfield warehouse district. Oh, most of those things that were once there are still being manufactured, its just not here. Its a problem.

Most certainly. I once saw a study about a correlation between the decline of sustainable working class jobs and crime rates. I'll see if I can dig it up.

Not that I disagree with what's been stated but from a local level, what can be done to encourage manufacturing in Jacksonville?

^Well, that's a bit of a different story I guess. I doubt we'll ever see much improvement locally until things start to improve nationally, but that goes for everywhere, even areas that are comparative manufacturing centers.

I suppose if we want to compete for more of the dwindling manufacturing pie we could tie it to us being a transport/logistics hub. Conceivably, the potential ease of distribution would make it more attractive for manufacturers.

Lake, a targeted campaign by the City/CofC with some aggressive marketing would be a good start. I have tossed a lead to the CofC several times since Mayor Brown was elected and as of my last contact with the bus manufacturing CEO, THEY STILL HAVEN'T HEARD FROM JACKSONVILLE.

When a company expresses an interest in industrial production in Jacksonville, we should be all over it. We're not even paying attention. ZZZZZZZZZzzzzzzzzz

OCKLAWAHA

Manufacturing?  The manufacturing scenario seems similar to farming and producing food.  The demand, as attached to people, is still with us, as in decades ago.  So… what’s different?  Why do we have so little manufacturing here?  Of course there will always be “some” manufacturing suitable for Jax,  but will it be enough, and can we entice its movement to Jax, especially within close proximity to the core; that is, if the type is suitable.

Seems that new technologies has brought very high efficiency to production in both food production and manufacturing; so of necessity, fewer manufacturing facilities are needed, and fewer farms are needed; both areas seeing more mega sized plants and farms as compared to decades ago.

Efficiency is related to dollars, or profit, and profit is king.  All is good as long as our population has enough products to use (to buy) and food to eat, and as long as the population has the funds to purchase the products and the food. 

If we envision extremes in the manufacturing, farming, and distribution abilities, wherein, again as an ideal extreme, the required manufacturing and farming and distribution can be accomplished by, say, only one percent of the working population, then there might emerge an imbalance; an increase in unemployment, and therefore a condition wherein the population would not have enough funds to purchase the products and food they want and need.  If the one percent could produce whatever is needed for the majority, what is the majority to do and, being unemployed, how are they to obtain funds to purchase the products and the food? 

It seems that if an imbalance of this kind, which is encroaching upon us with each decade, if not addressed, would increasingly become critical.  It would become critical because there would emerge an elite moneyed few, who would be in control of the larger manufacturing, farming, and distribution; and as a result also in control of the financial institutions; and this, by way of our current political dynamics wherein the expensive lobbying can control the governmental decisions, be in control of our government.   

The above scenario of imbalance has been encroaching upon us for decades; and if one contemplates the pressures about us, these pressures all tend to move us toward what some call a socialist environment; and this, almost of necessity, simply because “if” our society has the ability to produce enough products and food with only the labor and skills of a very few, there must be some mechanism to distribute the products and the food to those who are not needed in the work force, not because they choose to avoid work, but simply because there is no demand for more products, or for more food production.

It is much like a family, especially of decades ago, wherein it is only necessary for the man to work, while the grandparents, the children, perhaps a disabled uncle, and the wife do not participate in the work force of the community.  The man of this family, who is able to work and gain funds, will, if he is wise and caring, and if he does not want rebellion and suffering within his family, distribute the funds, products and food needed by his family so that they can have a reasonable quality of life.  Again, the children and the grandparents, and the wife, are not expected to work for wages.  Some might perceive that this family is a mini form of socialism, and that it exists as a necessary outcome of the dynamics of labor and need.

I suspect that our current unrest, our occupying projects, are related somewhat to the emerging imbalance as outlined above.

Back to work.  Yes.... some of us have to work for a living.

This really hits close to home.
I reinvented myself from entertainment to Industrial Electrical with all the attached skills,Electronic,Robotic,Hydraulic, and Pneumatic.
Then watched and saw the local reception I got during job searches. Security guards are instructed to run off anyone even thinking about entering the property.You have to put your resume into "the big internet fishbowl" to communicate with a corporation in your own neighborhood.
Gone are the days of walking into an office with a warm smile,enthusiasm and a "what you see is what you get "confidence.
I have even encountered unabashed nepotism. (GASP! not in JAX!?)
Robotic programming and repair rarely happen anymore.It is more productive to swap out Robots to avoid production loss with 24-7 manufacture.
So you swallow your pride and stop your confident swagger.
You find a niche with the restoration of older homes....then the property managers and landlords tighten their belts and let things rot.
Can you see where this is going?
This sounds familiar to those stories you hear about the Russian Engineer/Doctor/ bank president who is now a handyman in the "USandA." >:(

Quote from: urbanlibertarian on October 16, 2011, 06:13:35 PM
What's so great about manufacturing?  I'd rather work in an office than a factory.  Robotics is the cutting edge in manufacturing so the future is in programming robots and maintaining them.

Truth. Acceptance is key

Quote from: thelakelander on October 17, 2011, 08:54:17 AM
Not that I disagree with what's been stated but from a local level, what can be done to encourage manufacturing in Jacksonville?

Ive had a funny totally unexpected experience with this. American manufacturing has become a novelty. For me, as a fine art screen printer, i felt my trade was over. Fine art can be impeccably done by computers, digital printing, in moments.
But when i offered my antiquated services as a fine art printer, i am swamped with business. Artists offer American production, manufacturing to their clients.
Another example. literature. A writer composes a piece for an e book. He immediately becomes swamped with requests to have a book made for his readers. Customers line up with having possession of such a novelty.
Custom shop guitars, handmade in USA, Custommade cars, bikes et al. Such is the future of American manufacturing.
Of course , its hard to imply this to overall national economic impact, as essentially, one is providing a service more than a product, the novelty of an American made product. Just sharing my experience.

A huge portion of this vanishing America is our desire to put profit over people. As industries relocated over seas, cost of production fell through the floor. The days of a boiler maker turning out a product that was a type of art in its own right ended when two boilers could be made in China, AND SHIPPED across the sea for less money. This also snowballed into transportation demands changing. Containerization allowed the railroads to drop thousands of miles of trackage to small towns and little industries, but it was done for dollars and many small American towns dried up when the local lumber yard and grain elevator closed. Migration towards the urban centers for job preservation further effected small town America. Denser mass in those very cities allowed the railroad and trucking lines to drop less-than-carload clients and focus only on the big dollars. As containers came into play the old style (Jacksonville) waterfronts had to shift from massive warehouses where individual longshoremen unloaded product by the box or net full, to expansive parking lots with container cranes. Completion of the Interstate highway system nearly crippled our railroads until the same economics took over the trucking industry. It largely started when the owner of Schnider National trucking was invited aboard the Santa Fe Railroads private car, coupled behind a loaded piggyback flat car and moving at 90 mph across Iowa. He walked to the front door and stared at the truck trailers riding fast and smoothly and turned to the Santa Fe CEO and said something to the effect of 'we can do this!' Almost overnight Schnider and Santa Fe became the world leaders in intermodal traffic and those truckers who at first walked over the railroad industry suddenly became married to it. The era of the wildcat trucker looking for a load was over.

Along came the containers, and again Schnider and the railroad were path finders. While rail intermodal container traffic (COFC), both ISO and domestic, increased by 68% between 1999 and 2006, the number of trailers carried by rail (TOFC) actually declined by about 28% during the same time period. This represented a significant change in the balance of 55% TOFC / 45% COFC in 1990 to 15% trailer / 85% container in 2008. TOFC has thus become a marginal segment of intermodal transportation used for niche services, most of them point to point.

Today, railroads are the undisputed big dog in America's transportation industry and they are experiencing fantastic growth even in this economy. The good news is all of the modes are up, some WAY UP. So somebody somewhere is make things but, the bad news is, I doubt its in the USA.

OCKLAWAHA

QuoteToday, railroads are the undisputed big dog in America's transportation industry and they are experiencing fantastic growth even in this economy. The good news is all of the modes are up, some WAY UP.

I sure wish this was reflected in their stock prices!

Sorry, Ock.  Sounds like nostalgia to me.  If the US is going to continue to grow economically in a global economy don't we have to do things better and cheaper than they can elsewhere?  We need to excel at the next big thing.

Quote from: urbanlibertarian on October 18, 2011, 02:45:41 PM
Sorry, Ock.  Sounds like nostalgia to me.  If the US is going to continue to grow economically in a global economy don't we have to do things better and cheaper than they can elsewhere?  We need to excel at the next big thing.

So much for telling you how the largest revolution in transportation history since the wing or wheel got stoked. So we make 'it' bigger' or better, my concern is how you or anyone else gets 'it' from point A to point B. As for the "next big thing" in transportation, forget monorails, or maglev. Nobody is going to scrap trillions of dollars of real estate and infrastructure so you can go 300 mph on a cushion of opposed magnification, when you can do the same thing on rails. Watch for slightly smaller (but more in numbers) locomotives using green gen-set power to replace most of what we see today. Electrification of main lines in dense areas of the country will also jump back on stage, expanding as  fossil fuel becomes more expensive.

A modern Zeppelin, even filled with helium (hydrogen lifts more) can load up to 100 tons, take off from the airport in Friedrichshafen and land in Jacksonville 40 hours later consuming the same amount of fuel that an Airbus stretch uses moving from a terminal to the end of the runway. Skunk Works of Lockheed is the buzz in world military circles with their new hybrid airship. This is another area, even though we've known this and been on the brink for 50+ years, this resurgence is happening at home and in the EU and Russia.

The following photographs of the first flight of Zeppelin NT #3 D-LZZF kindly provided by Zeppelin Luftschifftechnik GmbH. And I bet you'd call this nostalgia?


OCKLAWAHA

Quote from: Dog Walker on October 18, 2011, 11:08:10 AM

QuoteToday, railroads are the undisputed big dog in America's transportation industry and they are experiencing fantastic growth even in this economy. The good news is all of the modes are up, some WAY UP.

I sure wish this was reflected in their stock prices!

TODAYS NEWS

CSX reported a 12 percent increase in net income to $464 million, or 43 cents per share, matching the forecast of analysts surveyed by FactSet. A year earlier, the company earned $414 million, or 36 cents per share.

Revenue grew 11 percent to $2.96 billion.

Some good news for a change.

OCKLAWAHA

Quote from: stephendare on October 18, 2011, 03:03:09 PM

Quote from: urbanlibertarian on October 18, 2011, 02:45:41 PM
Sorry, Ock.  Sounds like nostalgia to me.  If the US is going to continue to grow economically in a global economy don't we have to do things better and cheaper than they can elsewhere?  We need to excel at the next big thing.

I think you have to do things better or cheaper, dont you agree, Urban Libertarian?  It doesnt have to be both.

Better, cheaper or both.  Whatever it takes to satisfy the customer more than your competition.