TURK.
Meester
Mathis
Del Rio?
Are the players really this bad ? Are the coaches really this bad? Is GM Gene really this bad? Not catching the kickoff twice and letting it bounce cost us big time. I have no idea what happened between Meester and Gabbert at the end, that was inexcusable. Settling for field goals instead of touchdowns is the same old story for these Jags. I think we are going into the bye week at 1-7 ( anyone really think we will beat Pittsburgh, Baltimore or Texas). Has it ever been this bad, besides our fist few seasons? I think GM Gene's picks from Virginia College and Tulsa Welding School are not paying off. We need change and we need it now.
Quote from: Dapperdan on October 09, 2011, 06:57:25 PM
Are the players really this bad ? Are the coaches really this bad? Is GM Gene really this bad? Not catching the kickoff twice and letting it bounce cost us big time. I have no idea what happened between Meester and Gabbert at the end, that was inexcusable. Settling for field goals instead of touchdowns is the same old story for these Jags. I think we are going into the bye week at 1-7 ( anyone really think we will beat Pittsburgh, Baltimore or Texas). Has it ever been this bad, besides our fist few seasons? I think GM Gene's picks from Virginia College and Tulsa Welding School are not paying off. We need change and we need it now.
Couldn't have said it better myself. Totally pathetic. Was just speechless with the final 2 offensive plays. Last time we were 1-4 was 1995, and 2003.
Can't really put this on GM Gene. His folks are actually playing pretty decent. Notice it was former Jag Reggie Nelson who was out of place on the Jason Hill touchdown. The defense is light years better than last year. After five games, they've given up more than 300 yards once. In a year where offense is king, that's pretty good.
Let me ask you all this - when they announced that rookie Blaine Gabbert was going to be the starter, did anyone expect a good year? Peyton Manning went 3-13 in his first year. I'm not saying Gabbert will be Manning (a bit early for that), but I actually thought Gabbert looked pretty good today.
With all of that said, it's obvious that there are a lot of communication issues. During the game, they had to call timeout because they had 12 men on the field - not good. Those types of things I'd put on coaching.
Regardless of whether or not I think Del Rio is the problem, this will most likely be his last year. I won't be sad to see him go, but I don't want to see the Jaguars be one of those teams that plays musical coaches. Very few organizations are successful that way.
So is it still a field goal league now? Twice inside the 5 and only six points to show. AS usual they keep their opponent in the game until they come up with the winning drive. LOL, HORRID, and just PATHETIC. People wonder why the stands are not full. Addmission price should be free to watch that POS on the field. I feel sorry for MJD wasted talent on this team.
Questions
1. Why is Shorts still returning punts?
2. Turk why is he still getting a pay check?
3.Deji why do they keep trying to run him between the tackles?
4.Is it coaching, execution, lack of talent, or all of the above?
Quote from: Dapperdan on October 09, 2011, 06:57:25 PMNot catching the kickoff twice and letting it bounce cost us big time.
Agreed. I'll give Shorts a pass on this for today, because he's a rookie, but that needs to be addressed quickly. However, I think Turk being just god awful hurt more. I wouldn't be surprised if this week was open punter auditions.
]I thought it was as simple as not having a field general, quarterback. It seems that 1st pick Blaine was picked as our mainman but Garrard looked horrible in pre season and not worth $33 million extention through the eyes of management. To let him go must have been a decision of GM Smith and Weaver himself, right? The failure of Garrards back up looks to be a surprise also, ive already forgotten his name. So Blaine was rushed into the season and fans are in for growing pains like today. Play for play, he stuck me as vastly improved since his first start.
I thought our defense was better than last year, just that an ineffective offense keeps them on the field too long.
with that being said, im feeling the team is hoping that Blaine picks up and trys vigorously to avoid injuries early in the season as injuries are what ends the post season for many teams.
Quote from: Steve on October 09, 2011, 07:12:46 PM
Can't really put this on GM Gene. His folks are actually playing pretty decent. Notice it was former Jag Reggie Nelson who was out of place on the Jason Hill touchdown. The defense is light years better than last year. After five games, they've given up more than 300 yards once. In a year where offense is king, that's pretty good.
Let me ask you all this - when they announced that rookie Blaine Gabbert was going to be the starter, did anyone expect a good year? Peyton Manning went 3-13 in his first year. I'm not saying Gabbert will be Manning (a bit early for that), but I actually thought Gabbert looked pretty good today.
With all of that said, it's obvious that there are a lot of communication issues. During the game, they had to call timeout because they had 12 men on the field - not good. Those types of things I'd put on coaching.
Regardless of whether or not I think Del Rio is the problem, this will most likely be his last year. I won't be sad to see him go, but I don't want to see the Jaguars be one of those teams that plays musical coaches. Very few organizations are successful that way.
Yes, thats what ive accepted. Troy Aikman only won once in his inaugural for the cowboys.
Del Rio and Shack have crippled this franchise. Lets not forget Bengals have a rookie QB as well 3rd and 17 for a TD, two fourth down conversions. Defense still has issues. BG is a rookie no way that excuses what we saw out there today.
Quote from: Keith-N-Jax on October 09, 2011, 07:23:34 PM
Del Rio and Shack have crippled this franchise. Lets not forget Bengals have a rookie QB as well 3rd and 17 for a TD, two fourth down conversions. Defense still has issues. BG is a rookie no way that excuses what we saw out there today.
Can you really put this one on Gabbert? 15/28 for 221 and a touchdown with a 91.5 QB Rating? Guys, every rookie QB develops differently. Once they made the decision to start Gabbert, this season was development - bottom line. My frustrations are with the offensive line (not as awful today as it's been though), the receivers (outside of Thomas, not good - I could have caught Jason Hill's TD), and punting/punt coverage (Turk has been awful).
The team is untrained and undisciplined. For that I blame the coach.
Please read carefully. I said BG is a rookie no way that excuses what we saw out there today, how is that statement putting it on BG?. When you cant score a TD twice inside the 5 and the defense allows two 4th down conversion and a TD on 3rd and 17 you wont win many games no matter the QB or Coach. Its too bad, this will be a painful yr, especially with PM out of the picture this yr. I am afraid we wont win another game this yr. Can we even beat the Manning less Colts this yr?
Quote from: Dashing Dan on October 09, 2011, 07:43:46 PM
The team is untrained and undisciplined. For that I blame the coach.
That, I would completely agree with. I do think we will win more this year. Our offense moved the ball against the NFL's #1 defense coming into this week. Yea, they HAVE to score when you're at the 1 (if they got touchdowns on those two, the
game isn't close. That's becoming an alarming trend actually.
Keith-N-Jax - I misunderstood your post. I get your point now.
My prediction is 5-11, give or take a game. Let's see if I'm right by the end of the year.
Steve who are we going to beat please tell? Now we are talking about the Jaguars right? when BG took over your best chance at winning were the Panthers and the Bengals, look at the schedule. I dont see the Jags scoring enough points to be anybody at this point. I say 1 and 15 and to be honest we really should be winless. If I'm wrong I am buying the 1st round to all posters above this post.
Quote from: Keith-N-Jax on October 09, 2011, 08:54:36 PM
I say 1 and 15 and to be honest we really should be winless. If I'm wrong I am buying the 1st round to all posters above this post.
Im gonna hold you to that one although I agree with you!!
HMMMM only 8 posters I see. I can swing it, but as Vic used to say I wouldn't worry about that.
On the play that Rashean got beat deep on, Dalton had like a ten second pocket; I'm sorry, but no one can cover a NFL WR for that long; We aren't getting any kinda consistent pressure on the opposing QB. It ssemed like the Bengals were getting continious pressure on Gabbert; I dunno, how bout calling some screen plays or quick outs against that! I didn't see a Jags screen or quick out the entire game. We are definitely going through some growing pains. The good thing about it is that it's looking like more and more each week that JDR will not be here next year.
Yep they couldnt get off the field on 3rd or 4th down. Those two 4th down conversion really hurt today. Our defense is in for a long yr if the offense continues like this. They could of won this game. ):
Alot of people were caught off guard when the ref made one of the calls in Spanish..lol
^^^Oh yeah, I was like WTF!!I get that it is Hispanic Heritage month and all but in the USA, most of us speak English; First the "wrong way arrows" on the field, now this. LOL
Quote from: Keith-N-Jax on October 09, 2011, 08:54:36 PM
Steve who are we going to beat please tell? Now we are talking about the Jaguars right? when BG took over your best chance at winning were the Panthers and the Bengals, look at the schedule. I dont see the Jags scoring enough points to be anybody at this point. I say 1 and 15 and to be honest we really should be winless. If I'm wrong I am buying the 1st round to all posters above this post.
Honestly, I'm not going to predict. This isn't college, where there is such a disparity between the top and the bottom. Really in the NFL, there isn't really that much that separate the top and the bottom - a few plays here and there really. That's why blowouts don't happen often in the NFL - one a week, maybe. The number of times that a team has gone 1-15 or worse is about 10 since the merger - about 45 years. It just doesn't happen often. A team has to be REALLY bad to pull that off, and I'm sorry, I just don't see this team as that bad. Admittedly, the next couple weeks look tough...on paper. But think about it this way. Remember when Tennessee started out 0-6, and finished 8-8? I'm not saying that that will happen. However, the thing that gives me encouragement is that if you think back to Gabbert's first game, they didn't move the ball at all, save for the touchdown in the monsoon. While they haven't put it together, they do have good components: a Top 10 rushing game and (most likely after this weekend is over) a Top 10 overall defense. They will get a punter who will be serviceable (possibly this week), and they will fix the punt return issues (possibly by putting someone else back to return kicks). Those two things probably lost us the game over everything else.
And BTW, the Bengals had the NFL's #1 defense and a really potent running game going into today, and with the win, they are a half a game out of leading their division, which is currently lead by Baltimore.
Quote from: Steve on October 09, 2011, 07:34:00 PM
outside of Thomas, not good - I could have caught Jason Hill's TD), and punting/punt coverage (Turk has been awful).
Ha, I saw our receiver streaking wide open and the ball go up...then I saw it was Hill and I got a lump in my throat. Very surprised he actually caught it.
And I am fully expecting Turk to be gone this week. Actually feel bad for the guy, this has to be the worst season of his career and he can't feel at all good about the way it's gonna end. Two more thoughts:
1)
I don't think this team is that far away from being good. There's honestly just a few missing pieces that could be fixed by next season. To me, most of it hinges upon Gabbert's development and just how good he will be, Eugene Monroe being a solid left tackle for many years, and Alualu reaching his potential and overcoming his nagging injury. This team could soon be built to win for many years...but of course there's no guarantee.
2)
This season is basically over and Jack Del Rio is halfway out the door. If Gabbert improves quickly and if we get very lucky (luck is always important in this league) we may somehow be relevant in December. But I think the hole is too deep for us to actually make the postseason even if this team is competing at a high level at the end of the year. It'll just get us into the conversation as a team on the rise going into the offseason. We'll see if even that can happen, but that's the only way Jack saves his job: if we can turn into the hottest team down the stretch and management has a feel-good vibe.
There were some glimmers of hope. I think it is safe to say our season is pretty much over, unless something dramatic happens.
Impressive - From the tone of the comments so far, I'm guessing most of you missed the first drive? 10 plays, 6 minutes, TD, mix of pass & run.... This is what our offense CAN look like - it was what it was, which was a thing of beauty.
Unacceptable - 2 drives with a 1st and goal inside the 5 and ending up with 2 FGs. Lewis is not allowed to drop that pass, BG, don't lead him as much next time. Our O-Line was getting manhandled against the run-blitz - what-da-ya say Koetter? Where's the screen? Where's the slant?
Give me a Fucking Break - Turk's gotta go. In 5 games he's shanked 3-4 punts, mis-hit as many more. He's done what he's supposed to do about 3 times. I can punt the ball 23 yards out of play for God's sake, and I'll do it for a lot less than league minimum.
Get's a Free Pass (but that's it) - Shorts letting the ball bounce on the punts may not have been the right play, but it's better than a muffed punt. Is it me or does everyone hold their breath while the ball is in the air - Shorts always looks like he's surprised when the ball is punted to him. Deji - you're on thin ice - you've managed one decent KR in 5 games. Where's the explosiveness? Why are you tiptoeing into contact?
That's why you're not a WR - Poz - how many potential INTs are going to hit you in the hands? Please, stop trying to catch the ball and just knock in the air for someone else. Don't you remember the tip drill from HighSchool ball?
A game can end in a tie moment, courtesy of Donovan McNabb - I think the entire team needs to study up on the NFL rule book. Especially, Rule 4, Section 1, Article 1:
QuoteLENGTH OF GAME
Article 1 The length of the game is 60 minutes, divided into four periods of 15 minutes each. In the event the
score is tied at the end of four periods, the game is extended by an overtime period(s) as prescribed in
Rule 16.
We here like, to email our council members and government, employees, well, send an email to the coaching staff, reminding everyone, that 30 minute games ended, at the PopWarner level. (Superfluous commas to represent the many mental mistakes that plague our team)
Turk, the punter, needs to go. We need consistency there. Should have kept Podlesh.
We will never be a great team with Del Rio. He's been here longer than Coughlin so we're not playing musical coaches.
Not being an expert, it is hard to know whether the offensive plays suck or the players aren't good enough. I see receivers much wider open on other teams. We are still a great receiver away I think.
Gabbert will be very good given some time.
Quote from: ProjectMaximus on October 10, 2011, 01:14:58 AM
Quote from: Steve on October 09, 2011, 07:34:00 PM
outside of Thomas, not good - I could have caught Jason Hill's TD), and punting/punt coverage (Turk has been awful).
Ha, I saw our receiver streaking wide open and the ball go up...then I saw it was Hill and I got a lump in my throat. Very surprised he actually caught it.
And I am fully expecting Turk to be gone this week. Actually feel bad for the guy, this has to be the worst season of his career and he can't feel at all good about the way it's gonna end. Two more thoughts:
1) I don't think this team is that far away from being good. There's honestly just a few missing pieces that could be fixed by next season. To me, most of it hinges upon Gabbert's development and just how good he will be, Eugene Monroe being a solid left tackle for many years, and Alualu reaching his potential and overcoming his nagging injury. This team could soon be built to win for many years...but of course there's no guarantee.
2) This season is basically over and Jack Del Rio is halfway out the door. If Gabbert improves quickly and if we get very lucky (luck is always important in this league) we may somehow be relevant in December. But I think the hole is too deep for us to actually make the postseason even if this team is competing at a high level at the end of the year. It'll just get us into the conversation as a team on the rise going into the offseason. We'll see if even that can happen, but that's the only way Jack saves his job: if we can turn into the hottest team down the stretch and management has a feel-good vibe.
I just got back in town so I couldnt make it to the game. However I will say we beat oursevles this time. However Im with you. We not that far away as many think. Right now were dealing with the cards we were dealt. A killer schedule, a QB merry go round cause by management without an off season to adjust and a disrupted O-line. anytime you make a sudden QB change you are asking for trouble. I do think this season is toast, but its not by far over for this franchise. Im even more excited we have a REAL QB now. I could care less about anything else at this point.
As far as Del Rio and the staff goes, they are out the door. Our coaches are not offensive minded at all. They have no idea what they are doing. And I wish everyone would lay off the defenese. They are 150% better than last year and they have working their asses off to trying to keep us in the game. They have no help from the offense what so ever.
Quote from: Non-RedNeck Westsider on October 10, 2011, 09:38:53 AM
Impressive - From the tone of the comments so far, I'm guessing most of you missed the first drive? 10 plays, 6 minutes, TD, mix of pass & run.... This is what our offense CAN look like - it was what it was, which was a thing of beauty.
Unacceptable - 2 drives with a 1st and goal inside the 5 and ending up with 2 FGs. Lewis is not allowed to drop that pass, BG, don't lead him as much next time. Our O-Line was getting manhandled against the run-blitz - what-da-ya say Koetter? Where's the screen? Where's the slant?
Give me a Fucking Break - Turk's gotta go. In 5 games he's shanked 3-4 punts, mis-hit as many more. He's done what he's supposed to do about 3 times. I can punt the ball 23 yards out of play for God's sake, and I'll do it for a lot less than league minimum.
Get's a Free Pass (but that's it) - Shorts letting the ball bounce on the punts may not have been the right play, but it's better than a muffed punt. Is it me or does everyone hold their breath while the ball is in the air - Shorts always looks like he's surprised when the ball is punted to him. Deji - you're on thin ice - you've managed one decent KR in 5 games. Where's the explosiveness? Why are you tiptoeing into contact?
That's why you're not a WR - Poz - how many potential INTs are going to hit you in the hands? Please, stop trying to catch the ball and just knock in the air for someone else. Don't you remember the tip drill from HighSchool ball?
A game can end in a tie moment, courtesy of Donovan McNabb - I think the entire team needs to study up on the NFL rule book. Especially, Rule 4, Section 1, Article 1:
QuoteLENGTH OF GAME
Article 1 The length of the game is 60 minutes, divided into four periods of 15 minutes each. In the event the
score is tied at the end of four periods, the game is extended by an overtime period(s) as prescribed in
Rule 16.
We here like, to email our council members and government, employees, well, send an email to the coaching staff, reminding everyone, that 30 minute games ended, at the PopWarner level. (Superfluous commas to represent the many mental mistakes that plague our team)
I dont know what happened to our special teams. That was the best unit on our team last year. I am really missing Poldesh right now. Turk needs to retire.
Quote from: I-10east on October 09, 2011, 09:28:55 PM
On the play that Rashean got beat deep on, Dalton had like a ten second pocket; I'm sorry, but no one can cover a NFL WR for that long
I thought the error was on Coleman on that one? It looked like when the two Bengal receivers did the scissor maneuver, Rashean followed the inside receiver and motioned to Coleman to take Green, which he didn't, and then Rashean looked angry at Coleman.
^^^You're most likely right. I was at the game; From 216 with no binos + my not so good eye vision = to spectulation. LOL
We will be seeking a new punter this week.
http://jacksonville.com/opinion/blog/429812/tania-ganguli/2011-10-10/jaguars-will-work-out-punters-tuesday
Quote from: Keith-N-Jax on October 09, 2011, 09:12:46 PM
HMMMM only 8 posters I see. I can swing it, but as Vic used to say I wouldn't worry about that.
I dont drink anymore, so you can get me OJ! :-) But i think you might win
Sure no problem, but I got a feeling your going to be real thirsty by Jan. I do wish BG could get his first win this season though.
Saw David Garrard in Publix tonight.
Football aside, he just seems like such a genuinely good guy.
I still feel really bad for the way the franchise treated him on his way out.
I really hope he gets a chance to have a couple more good seasons somewhere else.
Yeah, DG set for life with all of those millions, I really feel sorry for him. He played himself out of a job in practice, and in the preseason, simple as that. Freakin' JDR and the rest of the Jags organization wanted him to start from the get-go, but he was hopelessly inept; I can see a rookie like BG making mistakes, but someone whos been in the league as long as David; He didn't audible, he can't read defenses well, he don't anticipate a receiver getting open (like BG does BTW), he was inaccurate with the long ball, and the list goes on. To me DG seems like a genuine nice guy too, but business is business. The only thing that I fualt with what the Jags did was after releasing DG, they should have gave the job to Gabbert instead of Luke McCown.
Quote from: I-10east on October 11, 2011, 12:51:04 AM
Yeah, DG set for life with all of those millions, I really feel sorry for him. He played himself out of a job in practice, and in the preseason, simple as that. Freakin' JDR and the rest of the Jags organization wanted him to start from the get-go, but he was hopelessly inept; I can see a rookie like BG making mistakes, but someone whos been in the league as long as David; He didn't audible, he can't read defenses well, he don't anticipate a receiver getting open (like BG does BTW), he was inaccurate with the long ball, and the list goes on. To me DG seems like a genuine nice guy too, but business is business. The only thing that I fualt with what the Jags did was after releasing DG, they should have gave the job to Gabbert instead of Luke McCown.
I agree I-10. And they also made a mistake by letting him go when the did. We should have played him, and when he started slipping, then start putting in BG for a quarter or two. With no off season, that was the most un-timley decision we could have made. But honestly, regardless who the QB was, our season was going to end up like this anyways. Our Offensive has been suspect from the past few years and we have covered it up with the running the ball. Now everything has hit the fan. JDR has made this team one-dimiseonal run the ball first and only team. And I feel sorry for the players because its really not there fault.
My co-worker just told me how ugly Turk was acting after being booed for botching the punt. That is unacceptable on ever level. He is caused the first error that costed us the game. Im glad were "kicking" him to the curb. They should not have evern hired a 43 punter in the beginning.
Quote from: duvaldude08 on October 11, 2011, 10:07:02 AM
My co-worker just told me how ugly Turk was acting after being booed for botching the punt. That is unacceptable on ever level. He is caused the first error that costed us the game. Im glad were "kicking" him to the curb. They should not have evern hired a 43 punter in the beginning.
A lot of punters retain their skills pretty well at that age. Jeff Feagles, to use a recent example. But it seems to me Turk was a better power punter than a directional punter and he seems to have just lost it altogeher.
Turk just got cut.
Nick Collins - Ex Lion
We'll see.
I was listening to Tanya give an interview on 930 and I'm confused as to why Turk was even brought aboard. Just learned this, FYI: The Jags employ a directional punting technique that is typically well covered by Osgood. Turk was never a directional punter and Osgood has been injured for most of the year. So we basically hired a guy to do a job that he had never done and lost the best coverage guy that we had - recipe for success? Yeah, I don't think so, and we've seen the results. Hopefully this Collins guy has a little more experience with finesse punting than he does just booting it down the field. To be seen.
There is a God. Now the big question...whose going to cacth the punt and return the ball. everyone's giving Dejay Karim heat, but he has been strecthed thin. He is the back up running back and on punt return. He has not been on on punt return that much this season. IMO, draft a thrid running back, put cecil on the bench, and put Dejay Karim on punt return where he belongs. Karim has been doing two jobs and getting paid for one. Turks terriable punts have been part of problem this season. Along with cecil running from the ball. LOLOLOL Cecil cracks me up. He plays like he scared.
Quote from: Non-RedNeck Westsider on October 11, 2011, 03:55:35 PM
Nick Collins - Ex Lion
We'll see.
I was listening to Tanya give an interview on 930 and I'm confused as to why Turk was even brought aboard. Just learned this, FYI: The Jags employ a directional punting technique that is typically well covered by Osgood. Turk was never a directional punter and Osgood has been injured for most of the year. So we basically hired a guy to do a job that he had never done and lost the best coverage guy that we had - recipe for success? Yeah, I don't think so, and we've seen the results. Hopefully this Collins guy has a little more experience with finesse punting than he does just booting it down the field. To be seen.
As long as he gets the ball down the field more than 25 yards Im happy at this point. LOL
Quote from: Wacca Pilatka on October 10, 2011, 02:13:51 PM
Quote from: I-10east on October 09, 2011, 09:28:55 PM
On the play that Rashean got beat deep on, Dalton had like a ten second pocket; I'm sorry, but no one can cover a NFL WR for that long
I thought the error was on Coleman on that one? It looked like when the two Bengal receivers did the scissor maneuver, Rashean followed the inside receiver and motioned to Coleman to take Green, which he didn't, and then Rashean looked angry at Coleman.
Rashean likes to look angry at teammates. And I'd say half of the time it's justified. I don't know about this particular play, but again, you can't put it on Coleman either when there's that much time to throw.
Quote from: Non-RedNeck Westsider on October 11, 2011, 03:55:35 PM
Nick Collins - Ex Lion
We'll see.
I was listening to Tanya give an interview on 930 and I'm confused as to why Turk was even brought aboard. Just learned this, FYI: The Jags employ a directional punting technique that is typically well covered by Osgood. Turk was never a directional punter and Osgood has been injured for most of the year. So we basically hired a guy to do a job that he had never done and lost the best coverage guy that we had - recipe for success? Yeah, I don't think so, and we've seen the results. Hopefully this Collins guy has a little more experience with finesse punting than he does just booting it down the field. To be seen.
We'll see...Turk has stunk this season and it's mostly inexplicable (that kinda thing happens though. At some point, the skills begin to erode)...but still it's not like the other guys available to us are amazing. There may not be marked improvement with a new punter, but hopefully there's more consistency, even if the net yardage isnt hugely increased.
Quote from: stephenc on October 09, 2011, 08:58:29 PM
Quote from: Keith-N-Jax on October 09, 2011, 08:54:36 PM
I say 1 and 15 and to be honest we really should be winless. If I'm wrong I am buying the 1st round to all posters above this post.
Im gonna hold you to that one although I agree with you!!
Looks like someone is buying us a beer!!!
Off on weekends , name time and place and I am there.
Did you plan on doing a single beer with each of us, or should we get together at once and let you off the hook with a few pitchers?
Quote from: Non-RedNeck Westsider on October 28, 2011, 09:13:12 AM
Did you plan on doing a single beer with each of us, or should we get together at once and let you off the hook with a few pitchers?
whatever is cheaper for Keith. This'll just be a good time to get together and talk sports. Nothin better in my opinion. As far as time and place. Any evening is good for me but Wednesday.