I was downtown this weekend and noticed some of the parking meters have been replaced. The new meters that take credit cards, and nickels and dimes - allowing purchase of shorter amounts of time. Not all of the meters have been changed out, but they are near the Landing and some nearby streets - notably Laura.
Not as good as getting rid of the meters, but if we have to have them, they might as well be more convenient to use.
Here it is, this was back in May. I think there were installed around that time.
(http://i278.photobucket.com/albums/kk100/j0765/oldcrow008.jpg)
They were installed backwards. The credit card slot is supposed to face the sidewalk and the blinking red light indicating expired time is supposed to face the street.
Only in Jacksonville :)
The one I tried a couple of weeks ago didn't work......already!
they are also on Liberty St and Bay St
Quote from: Dog Walker on October 03, 2011, 09:38:54 AM
The one I tried a couple of weeks ago didn't work......already!
Lovely... I wonder how much each of these newfangled meters cost ?
Who uses a credit card to pay a coin available meter? Oh, forgot, the progressives want to take over downtown, gotcha. Thanks for the rough road, also known as Laura Street.
Someone without change on them. I prefer we cut the meters and most of the meter maids. Replace them with two hour time limit signs that work fine in far busier Riverside and San Marco.
What is the price of a parking ticket? Councilman Shad as I recall raised fines from $5 to $15. Someone mentioned to me that they got a $25 dollar parking ticket. Have they gone up? Are they one price in one area of Downtown and a different price in another area of Downtown? Anyone.
(http://www.instablogsimages.com/images/2008/12/26/jet-power-19_i3suy_5965.jpg)
If we invested in this, at least it would probably bring some tourist dollars with it, more then those meters will.
This is, as big a waste of our money, as a rocket powered shopping cart. If we are serious about downtown then we simply MUST stop punishing anyone who wants to hang around more then 2 hours! Mayor Brown, Parking Enforcement is, at best, a break-even operation. It's highly doubtful that Parking Enforcement is, or ever has been, a 'profit center' for the city's coffers. Without the meters, Parking Enforcement could still limit parking times and bring in revenue, but without the cost of meters.
Just imagine placing all of those shiny new meters, at over $1,000 dollars a pop, over in Town Center. Come back in 5 years and tell me how its doing.
OCKLAWAHA
Quote from: mtraininjax on October 03, 2011, 06:45:35 PM
Who uses a credit card to pay a coin available meter?
lots of people in cities all over the world....there are even cities that allow you to call a # and pay for your meter via credit card over the phone...an still others that have apps that do the same thing.
Quote from: JeffreyS on October 03, 2011, 07:07:54 PM
Someone without change on them. I prefer we cut the meters and most of the meter maids. Replace them with two hour time limit signs that work fine in far busier Riverside and San Marco.
I agree. There have been times I had to go DT and opps! I forget to get some change. The meters come in handy for many situations
If You dug deeper into this you will usually find that some company with a slick sales Rep SOLD this to our City....with the promise of increased revenue that they are probably splitting with the manufacturer of the meters.
I still haven't seen what the revenue of Stop Light cameras are. (wasn't this some Australian company?)..why is this issue dead?..and WHERE are the cameras currently located?
It's not so hard for you folks to see if the cameras are faced forward ( Sensor) or rearward (Red Light Licence plate cameras)
As usual on this site it is buried among the current Boring local political and Lawyer Drival.
The cameras on Post street/McDuff are supposed to be a Panacea. My best friend that owns the property across from the gas stations had a man show him blue prints and assure him they weren't Red Light enforcement cameras...rather a temporary fix because the sensors beneath the asphalt weren't working anymore and the COJ wasn't planning on digging up asphalt and working on the original sensors that obviously they aren't holding the suppliers accountable for...Gee maybe it was operator error..and the installers weren't trained to install them correctly in the first place...sound familiar...are you getting sick of this Bull$hit yet?
Quote from: duvaldude08 on October 03, 2011, 09:27:18 PM
Quote from: JeffreyS on October 03, 2011, 07:07:54 PM
Someone without change on them. I prefer we cut the meters and most of the meter maids. Replace them with two hour time limit signs that work fine in far busier Riverside and San Marco.
I agree. There have been times I had to go DT and opps! I forget to get some change. The meters come in handy for many situations
Yep, this is another choice (is that ever bad?) You can still use coin if you prefer.
I suggest to my fellow downtown parkers to BOYCOTT these Bull$hit meters and park elswhere. Are you dumb enough to swipe your precious debit card? Really?
Don't be a sheep...Don't play along with their games. ::)
This is improved customer service and an improvement over the coin-only meters. I agree that no meters would be even better but with just time limits we would still need enforcement and a way to pay for it. Currently the meters and tickets pay for the enforcement.
QuoteSomeone without change on them.
Who does not have change in their car? You spend so much time getting in the car, focusing on driving your 6,000 pound beast, parking it in a slot, and you forget a lousy nickel, dime or quarter? Are you kidding me?
Someone post the cost benefit analysis of these new meters and when they will actually pay for themselves? I doubt they save us money, and in fact, I believe they cost more to operate and manage and secure. I'll continue to use coins.
Quote from: mtraininjax on October 04, 2011, 11:11:57 AM
QuoteSomeone without change on them.
Who does not have change in their car? You spend so much time getting in the car, focusing on driving your 6,000 pound beast, parking it in a slot, and you forget a lousy nickel, dime or quarter? Are you kidding me?
Someone post the cost benefit analysis of these new meters and when they will actually pay for themselves? I doubt they save us money, and in fact, I believe they cost more to operate and manage and secure. I'll continue to use coins.
So people are not allowed to forget change? Seriously?
Quote from: duvaldude08 on October 04, 2011, 11:44:25 AM
Quote from: mtraininjax on October 04, 2011, 11:11:57 AM
QuoteSomeone without change on them.
Who does not have change in their car? You spend so much time getting in the car, focusing on driving your 6,000 pound beast, parking it in a slot, and you forget a lousy nickel, dime or quarter? Are you kidding me?
Someone post the cost benefit analysis of these new meters and when they will actually pay for themselves? I doubt they save us money, and in fact, I believe they cost more to operate and manage and secure. I'll continue to use coins.
So people are not allowed to forget change? Seriously?
Seriously, Duvaldude, Seriously ;)
I find it hard to believe that someone wouldn't have any change on them, but why does it matter? I'm pretty sure plenty of people will take advantage of the debit card slot. The parking meters needed to be updated.
Well a lot of the old meters only take quarters. If I have any spare change in the car it's usually dimes, nickels, or pennies.
Quote from: Timkin on October 04, 2011, 11:54:25 AM
Quote from: duvaldude08 on October 04, 2011, 11:44:25 AM
Quote from: mtraininjax on October 04, 2011, 11:11:57 AM
QuoteSomeone without change on them.
Who does not have change in their car? You spend so much time getting in the car, focusing on driving your 6,000 pound beast, parking it in a slot, and you forget a lousy nickel, dime or quarter? Are you kidding me?
Someone post the cost benefit analysis of these new meters and when they will actually pay for themselves? I doubt they save us money, and in fact, I believe they cost more to operate and manage and secure. I'll continue to use coins.
So people are not allowed to forget change? Seriously?
Seriously, Duvaldude, Seriously ;)
LOL For real. I have actually forgotten to get change before when going DT. As busy as most of lifes are, we often forget the silly things. It happends :)
Quote from: mtraininjax on October 04, 2011, 11:11:57 AM
QuoteSomeone without change on them.
Who does not have change in their car? You spend so much time getting in the car, focusing on driving your 6,000 pound beast, parking it in a slot, and you forget a lousy nickel, dime or quarter? Are you kidding me?
Someone post the cost benefit analysis of these new meters and when they will actually pay for themselves? I doubt they save us money, and in fact, I believe they cost more to operate and manage and secure. I'll continue to use coins.
I - and many of my peers - seldom carry cash at all. I have zero change in my car. My wife has no change in her car. I always 100% of the time have my debit card on me, as I think many people do. The new meters are great. I've had to use them three or four times now and have been able to relax, not worrying that my lack of change means I'm risking a parking ticket.
I'd rather see the meters gone but this is a definite improvement.
Quote from: mtraininjax on October 04, 2011, 11:11:57 AM
Who does not have change in their car? You spend so much time getting in the car, focusing on driving your 6,000 pound beast, parking it in a slot, and you forget a lousy nickel, dime or quarter? Are you kidding me?
Someone post the cost benefit analysis of these new meters and when they will actually pay for themselves? I doubt they save us money, and in fact, I believe they cost more to operate and manage and secure. I'll continue to use coins.
So..I don't have a true cost benefit. However, the old meters only took quarters. I personally this morning, had 6 dimes, 4 nickels, and 9 pennies in my change spot in my car (I counted, because I was downtown and had no quarters). So, my guess is that the difference between replacing the meters with nickel/dime/quarter meters, or these was probably not that much of a difference. If you're going to the well anyway, get something that will last for a while.
Knowing what we know about downtown parking, one would think that arriving downtown without the proper coins would indicate piss poor prior planning. Unless, of course, it's only by accident that downtown is the destination.
QuoteI'd rather see the meters gone but this is a definite improvement.
OK, to each his/her own, but at what cost? Surely we did not need new parking meters for Laura Street, we could have reused some of the older ones, cleaned them up, painted them, or just put DVI stickers all over them to make them look like fun. So part of that 2.7 million for Laura Street could have been used to actually bring businesses downtown, instead of really super cool parking meters.
Again, lost decade is over, idiocy has hopefully vacated the 4th floor of 117 West Duval Street, but we are all watching for signs of its return.
mtrain....the costs of the parking meters and parking staff are matched with collections and tickets....so, if you never go downtown, you're not paying for it!
Quote from: tufsu1 on October 05, 2011, 04:09:46 PM
mtrain....the costs of the parking meters and parking staff are matched with collections and tickets....so, if you never go downtown, you're not paying for it!
That's actually not true, they normally lose money on an annual basis. At best they break even.
And that doesn't include the costs associated with running off potential customers who are sick of the tickets.
I would have to side with M-train on this one . ( Don't have a coronary , M-train ) I think the money could have been more wisely spent on refurbishing old meters instead of the super duper new ones.
I do not go downtown very much , but when i do, like all the rest of us , we pay to park.
BTW I like the way Laura St looks .
Quote from: tufsu1 on October 05, 2011, 04:09:46 PM
mtrain....the costs of the parking meters and parking staff are matched with collections and tickets....so, if you never go downtown, you're not paying for it!
Parking meters are an antipode in the redevelopment of a vibrant downtown. Today when the far larger majority of business is conducted away from the urban core, keeping this antiquated deterrent to success around for the next generation is unfathomable. Parking enforcement doesn't break even and is a small self perpetuating leach on the backside of every citizen.
I am amazed at the number of our posters who shrug this off with comments such as, "I'd rather see the meters gone but this is a definite improvement," or "The parking meters needed to be updated." This is a defeatist attitude wholly lacking in spinal fortitude when the correct comment should be an unequivocal "NO!" to meters of any type.
So you really think these things are going to put revenue on the bottom line in the city? Think again. At a typical cost of around $6,100 per meter, or between $7,000 and $10,000 for double space meters, plus the cost of money, personnel and maintenance this becomes just one more exercise in the fiasco that we call downtown Jacksonville.
Witness the odd unity of mind that this waste has created here at MJ, when Stephendare, Timkin, Mtraininjax, ChrisUFgator and Ocklawaha are all singing the same song, it's time to call in the dog and put our the fire. HELL HAS FROZEN OVER! The correct response to city hall in this case is "NO!" "HELL NO!" It's time for a sweeping change in our downtown policy and using these things as artificial reef material is the only acceptable response from the public.
No one has suggested getting rid of Parking Enforcement, but the meters are a barrier to downtowns future success.
OCKLAWAHA
Quote from: Timkin on October 05, 2011, 04:47:16 PM
I would have to side with M-train on this one . ( Don't have a coronary , M-train ) I think the money could have been more wisely spent on refurbishing old meters instead of the super duper new ones.
The money would have been better spent not being spent on meters at all. The streetscape project would have been a great opportunity to do what Mobile did on Dauphin Street and Cleveland with Euclid Street. A free parking zone in the heart of DT.
Free one hour parking in DT Cleveland
(http://photos.metrojacksonville.com/photos/593548913_YhmaJ-M.jpg)
Free two hour parking in DT Mobile
(http://photos.metrojacksonville.com/photos/837069709_Asg5B-M.jpg)
I would OF COURSE, prefer that the meters are taken out entirely, and forever. I simply think since they are there, that the new ones that take change, Credit cards and Pay Pal , were a bit over the top...to be clear on my position. I sided with M-train , and we all know that rarely happens, in that refurbished ones over these new ones would have saved money.
You guys are right, of course - the elimination of the parking meters would have been preferable. I guess I foolishly was thinking only of the convenience and peace-of-mind aspects of being able to pay for parking without having to carry change, instead of worrying about being ticketed. What I should have considered is that not having to pay for parking would have been the best option. I guess Jacksonville has brainwashed me.
With all of that said, if you're going to have meters, it does make sense to invest in user friendly ones. The ones that only accept quarters are archaic and help cement the image of downtown being an outdated place of commerce and activity.
Personally, I have no problem with the recently installed smart meter technology. From a larger economic perspective, I believe there is a strong argument that we'd benefit more by simply pulling up all of them and having free time limit enforced parallel parking in areas that need turnover. If they stay, then there's an argument for end user friendly technology and using the money generated to improve the environment of the specific neighborhoods where the funds are collected from.
Time limit enforced parking. An interesting concept. No meters would certainly make some feel better but would bring back the chalk on a stick forcing the meter maids to work for their paycheck.
However, if smart meters are the future then they should really BE smart. Smart enough to accept the one piece of plastic that must be carried by every driver - The drivers license. They should recognize the name, address and time of use for each parking incident and generate a monthly invoice to be paid just like your utility bill. If time limit parking is to be enforced, that information should also be included in the invoice. Swipe your DL when you park, swipe it again when you leave and if you overstay the limit a penalty is tacked on. Re swiping the card to extend parking would easily be caught by a truly smart meter - double the penalty.
Tacking on a personal gripe: All those city cars parking all day for free, tying up potential revenue generating spots or forcing drivers to search for parking near their destination. We, the taxpayer, are subsidizing some of the parking garages. Any city vehicle, not needed at a moments notice, should be required to use our prepaid garages. A moments notice does NOT include any vehicle not assigned to a first responder. Fire and Police brass are not first responders. Building inspectors are not first responders. JEA vehicles - not first responders. Property appraisers are not first responders. There are more.
Second gripe: I don't care what type of disability you have. If you have a drivers license and can own and drive a car and use a parking spot - You PAY. Too many free passes are given to too many.
I do not usually carry cash, definitely never, ever, ever have change on me (If i get change back, i leave it in the jar). I used to have to make a special trip to get coins if I was going downtown, so I don't see why its "bad" to have one that takes a credit card.
If the meters go away how will enforcement of the time limits be paid for?
Citywide ticket revenue would be one option.
Question: Why is it necessary to have parking meters?
Answer #1: To pay the salary and benefits to the city employees who monitor the parking system.
Answer #2: To provide revenue to the city.
Question: If the revenue generated (including fines) only breaks even - if that, why is it necessary to have meters?
Answer: To ENFORCE turnover so more people can conduct business in any given area.
Question: Why is it necessary to enforce time limits?
Answer #1: Because without enforcement, workers in any given area will monopolize street spaces close to their employment, preventing more people from conducting business in any given area.
Answer #2: Because people conducting business or patronizing businesses in any given area will spend too much time doing so and inconvenience someone else.
Answer #3: Because revenue is needed to pay the salaries and benefits to city employees who monitor the parking system.
Question: What would be the consequences if, on Monday morning, all the parking meters disappeared and all the meter maids were fired?
Answer: Who knows... Let's try it.
I think if the meters and enforcement ("meter maids") are eliminated, Answer #1 (employees monopolizing spaces) will take place, unless there are time limits, that are enforced; but we can't do that, because the hypothesis eliminates the means of enforcement.
Note, this is opinion, I have no empirical data to confirm or refute my opinion ... but I am sure someone does ( ... Bueler?)
^There are several cities that have free time limited parking and it works out just well. My advice for Jax would be to ask a place like Greenville, SC how they carry it out successfully.
On a larger scale, if the federal powers that be can think of implementing laws that put the onus on the employer to eliminate the employment of the undocumented, then a similar, much smaller effort of parking enforcement can be placed at the door of the Jacksonville businesses.
People working downtown, or where ever there are parking meters, must present a validated parking stub from a parking garage or surface lot showing entrance and exit times when ever they are actually present for the working day. Employers will correlate all times and report discrepancies to code compliance. Car pooling, public transportation use, being dropped off instead of driving, all to be documented and verified by the employer with some horrific penalties for fibbing. Let's treat this like the EPA will treat the offenders of the Lead Law - a $37,000 fine for the first offense ought to get some attention from those parking scofflaws. Or, if that's going overboard, how about a fine similar to one levied for have lights on that attract turtles?
Quote from: thelakelander on October 08, 2011, 01:53:17 PM
^There are several cities that have free time limited parking and it works out just well. My advice for Jax would be to ask a place like Greenville, SC how they carry it out successfully.
with enforcement that includes ticketing (i.e., revenue)
How about we just ask the much busier and much more dense Riverside how they get by with only St. Vincents parking garage and no meters. I can guess the answer , easily.
Quote from: JeffreyS on October 08, 2011, 07:12:30 PM
How about we just ask the much busier and much more dense Riverside how they get by with only St. Vincents parking garage and no meters. I can guess the answer , easily.
sorry but Riverside is not more dense than downtown when it comes to office workers...the primary employment concentration is at St. Vincents...and they use the garages.
just look at all the parking that Baptist uses on the southbank...blocks of surface parking lots plus a few garages.
Quote from: tufsu1 on October 08, 2011, 03:29:58 PM
Quote from: thelakelander on October 08, 2011, 01:53:17 PM
^There are several cities that have free time limited parking and it works out just well. My advice for Jax would be to ask a place like Greenville, SC how they carry it out successfully.
with enforcement that includes ticketing (i.e., revenue)
Yes. This is how you would fund parking enforcement and ensure turnover without parking meters.
Double the fees to $1 per hour. Build a streetcar line from Football Stadium to connect with Skyway Express at the Omni. We'll slowly begin using public transport.