The city selected to the Chamber's annual trip this year is Houston. It doesn't have the greatest downtown they are overcoming several of the same challenges as Jacksonville, so they're a good example to visit:
(http://i.bnet.com/blogs/houston-metro-rail-siemens-s70-flickr-eschipul-640px.jpeg)
QuoteBy David Bauerlein
A JAX Chamber leadership trip to Houston will give 123 participants an up-close look at how the nation's fourth-largest metropolitan area has carried out its economic development strategy.
Tom Van Berkel, chairman-elect for JAX Chamber, picked Houston for the annual leadership trip, which will run Monday through Wednesday.
Van Berkel is chairman, president, and CEO of Main Street America Group. The insurance company moved its headquarters to Jacksonville in the 2002 and has expanded to 11 new states in the past three years, bringing its total market to 27 states.
Van Berkel talked with the Times-Union about the Houston trip, the need for Northeast Florida to attract more corporate headquarters, and the growth prospects for Main Street America Group.
Why Houston?
I wanted to find a city that was committed to and had success with downtown development, which is a priority for Jacksonville. I wanted a city that has a vibrant and successful port. I wanted a city that has some kind of body of water because downtown Jacksonville has one of the most beautiful rivers running through it, and also a city has same kind of logistical issues that we have - a city that's large in size and has done something with light rail. The fifth piece was a city that has some of the same types of public education challenges that we face. Houston met all that criteria. It would be a city that's a little aspirational for us.
In what sense would it be aspirational?
We'll never get that big. But what it can do is say, "Look, here's a city that is large and has done well with many of the same challenges that we have." It's not just size. It's what they've been able to accomplish
full article: http://jacksonville.com/business/2011-09-24/story/how-houston-does-it-qampa-tom-van-berkel-jax-chamber
5 Things For The Chamber To Visit In Houston's Urban Core
(http://photos.metrojacksonville.com/photos/998330816_DixZB-M.jpg)
1. Metrorail - Red Line
http://www.metrojacksonville.com/article/2008-mar-rail-without-the-fta-houston-metrorail
This heavily used 7.5 mile LRT line connects downtown to Texas Medical Center. It's an example of something pushed forward with the momentum of hosting a Super Bowl (the year before we hosted ours) that ends up being a long term legacy project for the city's residents (our lighted brigdes are the most visible long term improvement we did). This line attracts something like 40,000 riders a day because it connects two high employment centers, an university, major public park and sports facilities. It's a great example of a starter fixed transit line. Oh, did I mention that it was built with local dollars since the state and feds were against it?
2. Texas Medical Center
http://www.metrojacksonville.com/article/2010-sep-is-jacksonville-ready-for-an-urban-medical-district
One thing I loved about Rick Mullaney's failed bid for mayor was his desire to transform the Shands area into an urban medical district. The synergy created by clustering medical/health related uses together is something that Jacksonville can easily take advantage of the create jobs and spur economic development in the heart of the city. The Texas Medical Center is a great example of this.
3. Discovery Green
http://www.metrojacksonville.com/article/2010-sep-the-best-new-urban-parks-in-the-us
Many would like to city public green space created at the new Courthouse and Shipyards site. Houston has one of the best new interactive urban parks in the country. Anyone visiting downtown, should at least attempt to walk through it.
4. Port of Houston
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Port_of_Houston
We developed the concept of containerization but Houston took the idea and ran with it. Today, its the second busiest port in the US. Enough said.
5. Downtown Houston
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Downtown_Houston
Its not the most vibrant place but a good case study for Jacksonville. They pretty much face the challenges we face with our downtown and encouraging revitalization. However, unlike us, they've stopped talking and have begin to implement things that will enhance their downtown in the long run. Major attractions created in the last 10 years include placing LRT down Main Street, creating a nightlife district on Main (centered around that LRT line), Discovery Green, a new convention center and a massive Transit Oriented Development (TOD) called Houston Pavilions.
To those who will be going on this trip, have fun.
Drew Carey made a series of videos with reason.tv about how to fix Cleveland. The answers they came up with mostly consisted of "You should be more like Houston." Here's a link to the video series:
http://reason.tv/video/show/1050.html (http://reason.tv/video/show/1050.html)
I think the reasons Mr. van Berkel laid out for going to Houston are very legitimate. I graduated HS with his son...the family is from the great state of New Hampshire. He has been here for 8-9 years and has already made a pretty good mark on the city.
I do think Houston has one of if not the worst central business districts for a city its size, though. We do so much business in Houston and Dallas and those two cities are worlds apart from each other, but I don't know if I could live in either one. I don't care that their economies are booming (they are attracting soooo many lowwww paying jobs, hmmm), I don't care that there are more millionaires and billionaires there than anywhere else in the south, I don't care that [insert something here]. They have a long way to go to being vibrant gateway market type cities. Houston is so dense, and on a grid, yet the whole city is kind of dead and sleepy. Dallas is so "nice" everywhere, yet everything that gets built is its own separate little thing. You have to drive a car just to get from one block to the next, even in some of the densest areas.
I'll take less heat, equal to better pay, more intellectual stimulation, varied topography, more trees, more old buildings and grit, more universities, better transportation, and a closer connection to the eastern seaboard any day of the week, even if it will cost me more.
Inasmuch as I appreciate what we can learn from the efforts in Houston, I'm not in love with seeing the word aspire in the quote (maybe the TU meant inspirational?).
Ennis - thanks for the 5-point suggestion. I will be participating in the Chamber's Leadership Trip to Houston again this year. It will be my fourth such trip, following Seattle (2008), Kansas City (2009), and Indianapolis (last year). I've only been through Houston's airports, but my perception of Houston has never been high based on what I've heard from people who have lived and worked there. It will be interesting to see how the connections with Jacksonville are presented, and I'm looking forward to the time in Houston and learning about the merits of the city.
^^Ha, didn't realize those 5 reasons came from Ennis. I echo/repeat that I like those reasons for visiting Houston because there are no other reasons to visit!
Quote from: simms3 on September 24, 2011, 09:31:45 PM
^^Ha, didn't realize those 5 reasons came from Ennis. I echo/repeat that I like those reasons for visiting Houston because there are no other reasons to visit!
Ok, I don't know the origin of the list, but I was giving Ennis credit for posting them as a part of this thread. Are you suggesting that there are no other reasons to visit based on perception, or personal experience?
I am impressed with their decision to continue LRT instead of BRT, in spite of the state and Feds. Even more so, when you consider how much oil is a part of their economy.
Quote from: simms3 on September 24, 2011, 09:31:45 PM
^^Ha, didn't realize those 5 reasons came from Ennis. I echo/repeat that I like those reasons for visiting Houston because there are no other reasons to visit!
If you're looking for a pedestrian friendly city in the same light of a San Francisco, DC, Chicago or New Orleans, then Houston isn't your place. If you're looking for a city that has recently faced similar issues Jax is currently dealing with (Sunbelt sprawler, a bringing life to a downtown that empties out after 5pm, port expansion, two beltways, a recently built convention center, starter fixed mass transit vs BRT, TOD, medical/health clustering, etc.) then Houston is a great place to go. My last visit to Houston was in 2006. I wasn't impressed with downtown (that underground tunnel system just sucks the life off the streets). However, I did like the amount of urban infill that had taken place in neighborhoods just outside of downtown, the cultural diversity and its proximity to Galveston.
Oh, they also have several great examples of adaptive reuse projects involving historic highrise buildings. When I was there, I stayed in a Courtyard by Marriott that had just opened in an office building with a similar scale to Jacksonville's old Barnett Bank Building.
(http://cdn.hotelplanner.com/Common/Images/Hotels/114077_1.jpg)
QuoteExperience old-style luxury in the Courtyard by Marriott Houston Downtown Hotel, housed in the stunning 1921 Humble Oil Building. From its neo-classical exterior to polished rose marble and original brass elevator doors, the building has been lovingly restored.
http://www.hotelplanner.com/Hotels/28786/Reservations-Courtyard-Houston-Downtown-Houston-916-Dallas-St-77002
Quote from: dougskiles on September 24, 2011, 09:44:05 PM
I am impressed with their decision to continue LRT instead of BRT, in spite of the state and Feds. Even more so, when you consider how much oil is a part of their economy.
In addition to moving forward on a starter line without State and Federal support, the short LRT line attracts over 34k riders a day. This suggests that fixed transit can work in Sunbelt sprawlers, no matter the length, as long as reliable service that connects riders directly to destinations that they want to go is provided. Whether its streetcar, commuter rail, skyway or even BRT, this is something Jacksonville and JTA needs to keep in mind.
QuoteMETRORail is the 7.5-mile (12.1 km) light rail line in Houston (Texas, USA). It is the second major light rail service in Texas following the Dallas Area Rapid Transit system. With an approximate daily ridership of 34,155, the METRORail ranks as the fourteenth most-traveled light rail system in the United States, with the second highest ridership per track mile. METRORail is operated by the Metropolitan Transit Authority of Harris County (METRO).
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/METRORail
Hopefully the folks visiting can take good notes. Sounds like a good idea.
sadly Houston is now building a 3rd beltway....so hopefully noone on the Chamber trip gets inspiration from this
Wow!!
I am sure Houston has some great attributes. Nice high rise, gleaming towers and the new LRT downtown. My neighbor and his wife just recently moved to Jax from Houston and they speak more highly of Jax.
Although much larger, I thought DT Houston had just as many issues to resolve as DT Jax, the last time I visited in 2006. At street level, it really gave off the impression of being a vertical office park that emptied out at 6pm. Other than that, Houston does have some great neighborhoods adjacent to DT, lots of small infill projects and Galveston being 45 minutes down the road is a plus. It reminded me of Atlanta or Dallas in a lot of ways but its distance to the Gulf Coast gave it the edge over those cities to me.
Quote from: fsujax on September 29, 2011, 09:40:20 AM
I am sure Houston has some great attributes. Nice high rise, gleaming towers and the new LRT downtown. My neighbor and his wife just recently moved to Jax from Houston and they speak more highly of Jax.
Just returned from the Chamber Trip yesterday.
Houston's attributes are oil, a strong medical center, oil, light rail that connects major nodes, oil, a some very nice urban parks, strong philanthropy, oil, and a strong theater and museum district.
And oil..........
Jacksonville is a superior city with greater potential.
Quote from: Steve_Lovett on September 29, 2011, 02:04:28 PM
Quote from: fsujax on September 29, 2011, 09:40:20 AM
I am sure Houston has some great attributes. Nice high rise, gleaming towers and the new LRT downtown. My neighbor and his wife just recently moved to Jax from Houston and they speak more highly of Jax.
Just returned from the Chamber Trip yesterday.
Houston's attributes are oil, a strong medical center, oil, light rail that connects major nodes, oil, a some very nice urban parks, strong philanthropy, oil, and a strong theater and museum district.
And oil..........
Jacksonville is a superior city with greater potential.
May the drillling commence.
Houston's attributes are oil, a strong medical center, oil, light rail that connects major nodes, oil, a some very nice urban parks, strong philanthropy, oil, and a strong theater and museum district.
Hey Steve! What about oil ;)
Houston is a nice town, but its a HUGE town population wise. It is the 6th largest Metropolitan area in the USA, how does that help Jacksonville, which is 40th? Indianapolis at 34th or Milwaukee at 39th would be better matches. Or even Memphis at 41st. Louisville at 42 or Oklahoma City at 44th.
Houston is not the right place, but when did the Chamber ever be worth any of the money that is poured into them?
Quote from: mtraininjax on September 29, 2011, 06:12:02 PM
Houston is a nice town, but its a HUGE town population wise. It is the 6th largest Metropolitan area in the USA, how does that help Jacksonville, which is 40th? Indianapolis at 34th or Milwaukee at 39th would be better matches. Or even Memphis at 41st. Louisville at 42 or Oklahoma City at 44th.
Houston is not the right place, but when did the Chamber ever be worth any of the money that is poured into them?
I disagree. I did not find Houston to be a very nice town. Jacksonville can blow Houston out of the water in very much the same way as Portland might be compared with Los Angeles. I think any city can learn from any other, in terms of both successes and failures.
There is much that The Chamber does well to serve the community; and many passionate, committed people with a sincere interest in making Jacksonville a better place. It's far from perfect and has missed the mark in many respects, but if these trips are approached in the right way there can be much to learn and benefit from.
Never heard anyone say anything really positive about Houston (or TX in general...unless they went to UT or visited Austin ha). We do a lot of deals in Houston and Dallas, and having been to Dallas a couple times (not liking it at all) I thought I would prefer Houston. I am rethinking that as I study and learn more about that city (albeit from a distance). Dallas does not remind me of Atlanta at all, and I don't think Houston would either in any way shape or form. I hate the comparison.
The most recent comments I have heard about Houston are how hot it is. People I work with go on frequent trips there and literally cannot get over it (granted two are from NY and one is from NJ...and one is from Hyderabad, India!). I don't think I could last in the heat/humidity there, and I sure as hell would be disappointed in the level of activity downtown and the culture/people there. Would miss hills and cooler weather along with an older, brick "Appalachian/northern" feel.
And the Gulf (there) is a benefit to port activity there, but I don't think it's a great benefit in the way of swimming, resorts, tourists, and retirees. Some people I know from the area on up to the lower Plains (college buddies) used to go to South Padre, but not since they have experienced FL beaches (or beaches anywhere else). And South Padre is far south of Houston.
Those three remind me of each other in how they sprawl compared to most metros their size. The best thing I liked about Houston was its proximity to Galveston and the Gulf. I majored in Architecture and happen to have a soft spot for well preserved cities such as Galveston, Savannah, New Orleans, etc. The new LRT line was also pretty nice. Oh, and yes, it does get hot. Dallas does too.
Houston provides oil companies with an export location for their product. Makes a nice refugee camp too, thanks to Katrina. Jacksonville does have I 95 and is a major road for drug traffickers, so both cities are used by greedy sob's, who even kill a few people now and again. Nice!
Quote from: thelakelander on September 29, 2011, 10:36:22 PM
Those three remind me of each other in how they sprawl compared to most metros their size. The best thing I liked about Houston was its proximity to Galveston and the Gulf. I majored in Architecture and happen to have a soft spot for well preserved cities such as Galveston, Savannah, New Orleans, etc. The new LRT line was also pretty nice. Oh, and yes, it does get hot. Dallas does too.
I was struck that Houston reminds me most of Las Vegas - Lacking natural intrinsic quality, touting size over all, and based in a wholly unsustainable economy.