Elements of Urbanism: Los Angeles
(http://photos.metrojacksonville.com/photos/1394611308_3HGvhv2-M.jpg)
Metro Jacksonville shares sights and scenes from the downtown of America's second largest city: Los Angeles
Full Article
http://www.metrojacksonville.com/article/2011-sep-elements-of-urbanism-los-angeles
That is just too many damn people. 12,000,000. Lord!
I believe Northrop Grumman recently relocated its HQ to northern Virginia (or is in the process of doing so).
LA is an amazing place. I have been there many times. I have to say though, still like San Diego better!
QuoteUrban Area Population Density (2000 census)
Los Angeles: 7,068.3 people per square mile
Jacksonville: 2,149.2 people per square mile
This is something that most people don't get about LA: It is actually quite densely populated. We tend to think of it as a huge suburban sprawl (which it certainly is), but most folks don't realize that significant sections of the city are pretty tightly packed.
All of LA county is tightly packed.
Great job Ennis.
The problem with the Fashion District is that it is totally ghetto: no public restrooms ANYWHERE and no place to eat. Literally. There is a McDonald's, but the line is always out the door as it is the only place to eat and pee. Actually, I do remember finding a restroom: I walked down a long, dark corridor, in some desolate building and paid $2 to pee and wash my hands. Honest. Scary. You will also see a lot of street vendors selling live animals on the curbs. It is not clean and you have to pay strict attention there. It is not a place to look like a tourist.
The blue line and other colored lines are not too bad, problem is they follow the traffic. In many areas they stop at the lights just like a car does. I can get to downtown LA in 35 minutes from Long Beach. For $6 you can get a round trip ticket and also ride the busses with that round trip tix. If you want to see where they make the movies in the crime ridden areas of LA take the blue line from Long Beach to Downtown LA. You'll be surrounded by it.
The downtown area is very spread out. Walking to all the areas Ennis highlighted is not easily do-able. Talking the busses works and the bus drivers are helpful and know the routes.
The arts district boasts the Walt Disney Concert Hall and near a dozen art museums, FIDM, and adaptive reuse buildings. It is very clean and maintained in this district.
QuoteThis is something that most people don't get about LA: It is actually quite densely populated. We tend to think of it as a huge suburban sprawl (which it certainly is), but most folks don't realize that significant sections of the city are pretty tightly packed.
You're right, any big city in California is dense in a people/square mile sense(San Diego, San Fran, LA). The difference is that the sprawl is in the outlying counties. All of Duval could ALMOST fit in the Los Angeles Basin: LA, Orange and Pomona Counties combined... yet all of that is considered the greater LA area. When you compare those two realities... the only fiscally responsible thing Jacksonville can do is to encourage dense infill along certain areas(downtown has to start becoming a major source of property tax revenue, and the growth of the Southside still isn't paying for itself, it's still not even a revenue neutral area of town even with the growth of the Town Center and the Tinseltown area). The health of the tax base simply cannot continue to subisidize single family housing sprawl to the outlying exurbs of the county.
LA's problem, and this is being fixed with an explosion of fixed transit right now.. is connecting the areas of their urban core together. The same problems we face here, are the same things that LA is in the process of fixing. It's time for us to get on board with that.
One interesting note... Old Bank is sort of a Back to the Future type of place for Jacksonville to pay attention to. This area grew specifically b/c of zoning changes that encouraged a lot of infill within the massive historic building stock the neighborhood had. This is something that the Mobility Plan in Jacksonville has the opportunity to accomplish.
LA is my favorite city outside of Jacksonville. I used to travel there frequently and stay for long periods of time for business. I also have a lot of friends in SoCal(and NorCal for that matter). If I ever leave Jax(which I have considered on many occassions)... that would be my destination.
Great article Lake!
Quote from: fieldafm on September 20, 2011, 12:54:02 PM
LA is my favorite city outside of Jacksonville.
I love it as well. A lot of people disparage it and compare it unfavorably with San Francisco or San Diego. However, it "city" in a way that probably no place outside of New York is, in that
anything you want, it's there.
Quote from: iloveionia on September 20, 2011, 12:26:16 PM
The blue line and other colored lines are not too bad, problem is they follow the traffic. In many areas they stop at the lights just like a car does. I can get to downtown LA in 35 minutes from Long Beach. For $6 you can get a round trip ticket and also ride the busses with that round trip tix.
I paid $5 for an all day pass on the days I heavily used the rail and bus lines. No need to sit in traffic, buy gas, search and pay for parking. That was a deal that really couldn't be beat.
QuoteIf you want to see where they make the movies in the crime ridden areas of LA take the blue line from Long Beach to Downtown LA. You'll be surrounded by it.
The ride through Compton, South Central (or whatever they're calling it these days) and Watts was pretty interesting. Especially with the guys jumping on the trains trying to sell everything from water and candy to light bulbs.
They are still expanding the freeways here, meaning making them wider with more lanes.
It makes sense to me if they would have public transportation built above (or even inbetween) the existing freeway system.
The public transportation system is NOTHING like NYC or Chicago.
And it is true: there is everything to do here in LA or damn near close. And the weather? Perfect.
$5 Ennis? That's great. My memory has failed!
Quote from: iloveionia on September 20, 2011, 02:57:07 PM
They are still expanding the freeways here, meaning making them wider with more lanes.
It makes sense to me if they would have public transportation built above (or even inbetween) the existing freeway system.
The public transportation system is NOTHING like NYC or Chicago.
And it is true: there is everything to do here in LA or damn near close. And the weather? Perfect.
$5 Ennis? That's great. My memory has failed!
Yeah, California is an odd place, and LA specifically. Though it votes blue generally, there are tons...and I mean TONS...of your typical SUV-driving, Bush-voting, types out there who love their highways. We have our own version of California's freeway expansion policies here in Florida, it's Orlando. Every 5-10 years since my birth, this big gripe campaign gets going, with the result that I-4 and often surrounding capillaries are widened and expanded, with the stated goal of easing congestion. Within 6 months, it's back to being worse than it was before, and there is nothing to show for it except a huge construction bill.
At some stage, natural market forces need to be left alone. These highways reach their own equilibriums, where when commute times get too long, people find alternate routes, or begin living closer to work to cut down on the commute. This is
exactly what we need to be encouraging. Continuing to expand highways that are already 16 lanes wide in the name of easing congestion is only perpetuating the problem.
It just blows my mind that LA is that much more dense than Philly and even Chicago. I would never have guessed. But look at Tokyo and I don't know how that many people could possibly live like that.
Chicago and Philly are both over 11,000/sq mi.
LA, the city that supposed to steal 1/4 of the NFL's teams.
What's sad is that LA used to have the biggest streetcar network in the world at one time (something like over 1,000 miles of track & over 900 electrified cars). Can you imagine that? LA?? They got rid of every single one of them by the 60s.
Its a big focus on the 1996 "Taken For A Ride" documentary (and the streetcar scandal in general).
(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/f/fb/Pacific-Electric-Red-Cars-Awaiting-Destruction.gif)
Quote from: Lunican on September 20, 2011, 05:02:57 PM
Chicago and Philly are both over 11,000/sq mi.
The 2010 Urban Area population density numbers haven't been released yet, but here are the density numbers for the 12 largest urban areas in the 2000 Census:
1. 7,083.3 Los Angeles-Long Beach-Santa Ana
2. 6,130.4 San Francisco-Oakland
3. 5,309.3 New York-Newark
4. 4,407.4 Miami
5. 3,913.6 Chicago
6. 3,400.8 Washington,DC
7. 3,094.4 Detroit
8. 2,951.1 Houston
9. 2,946.4 Dallas-Fort Worth-Arlington
10. 2,861.4 Philadelphia
11. 2,322.6 Boston
12. 1,783.3 Atlanta
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_United_States_urban_areas
Although some cities on this list have denser cores and inner city neighborhoods than others, a few like LA and Miami have pretty compact suburbs which pulls their overall urban area density numbers up.
I didn't know that there was a city in Jersey called "New Newark". LOL, JK Lake.
I was looking at city density versus urban area: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_United_States_cities_by_population
The old electric rails went EVERYWHERE. The lines are still there so to speak. There was a rail that went all the way up to Mt. Lowe. I in the streets in some areas the tracks are still there.
In Long Beach the city still owns some of the old rail "roads." Others were sold for development, some were turned into parks, some are just open and vacant.
(http://www.erha.org/pesystemmap.gif)
Keep in mind when we talk about sprawl, that it is 42.8 freeway miles from downtown Jacksonville Beach to downtown Baldwin, but it is 59.3 freeway miles from downtown Los Angeles to downtown San Bernardino and you'll NEVER leave town. It's just an endless array of smaller cities, one minute your in El Monte, the next minute your in West Covina, fans of old time comedy will recall the famous spoof on the Pacific Electric Conductor as he called out "Azusa, Cucamonga and Aneheim..." But Mass Transit? The electric railroad built Los Angeles more so then any other city in the world, and as the map below demonstrates, it's all coming back.
(http://homepage.mac.com/lpetrich/www/transit/LA_UrbanRail.gif)
seriously I have never thought, but I have lived close to NY and the suburbs for the most part/ at least in outer Jersey are not very dense/ at least like LA.
Quote from: I-10east on September 20, 2011, 05:31:55 PM
I didn't know that there was a city in Jersey called "New Newark". LOL, JK Lake.
Whoa, my bad.
Quote from: iloveionia on September 20, 2011, 05:38:28 PM
The old electric rails went EVERYWHERE. The lines are still there so to speak. There was a rail that went all the way up to Mt. Lowe. I in the streets in some areas the tracks are still there.
In Long Beach the city still owns some of the old rail "roads." Others were sold for development, some were turned into parks, some are just open and vacant.
(http://www.crownvalleypostcards.com/Circular_Bridge_on_Mt._Lowe__CA_op_608x376.jpg)
Don't know what generation your from iloveionia, but my first train ride was on the Pacific Electric Long Beach Division. Mout Lowe (above and below) was long gone, the Alpine Tavern far up the mountains burned down in 1936 (the year Jacksonville abandoned it's streetcars) and about all that remains are the big shady oak trees.
(http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3360/3509536738_67579b6a7a_z.jpg)
(http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-W9te7FQcKCY/TZetldgQFlI/AAAAAAAACeo/SX3SIa2aMWA/s1600/afternoon+four-car+Venice+High+School+school+train%252C+about+to+use+the+crossover+east+of+Centinela+Avenue+to+run+west+to+Venice+High.JPG)
An afternoon four-car Venice High School school train, about to use the crossover east of Centinela Avenue to run west to Venice High (Ira Swett photo). Typical Los Angeles when Ock was a kid!
Sweet thread, I still havent been to LA yet, soon I hope.Great work!!!
Quote from: Lunican on September 20, 2011, 05:34:08 PM
I was looking at city density versus urban area: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_United_States_cities_by_population
I figured that. The thing that throws me off with them is the land areas of cities aren't the same. For example, Miami Beach (12,539.8 residents/sq mile) is denser than Chicago (11,843.6) to the naked eye. However, Chicago covers 227.6 square miles of land area while Miami Beach is only 7 square miles.
On the flip end is Jacksonville at 1,100.1 residents/sq mile due to consolidation. However, no one here would argue that our actual urban core (which covers more land area than the town of Orange Park) is not denser than Orange Park (2,156.9/sq mi.).
Speaking of density, here are some random pics of LA outside of downtown.
(http://photos.metrojacksonville.com/Learning-From/Beverly-Hills-Miracle-Mile/i-pL5RnND/0/M/P1490948-M.jpg)
(http://photos.metrojacksonville.com/Learning-From/Beverly-Hills-Miracle-Mile/i-hdF32jW/0/M/P1490808-M.jpg)
(http://photos.metrojacksonville.com/Learning-From/Beverly-Hills-Miracle-Mile/i-CFZxcv2/0/M/P1490641-M.jpg)
(http://photos.metrojacksonville.com/Learning-From/Beverly-Hills-Miracle-Mile/i-tCZTJPh/0/M/P1490613-M.jpg)
(http://photos.metrojacksonville.com/Learning-From/Santa-Monica-Venice-Beach/i-mXmHMPR/0/M/P1490872-M.jpg)
(http://photos.metrojacksonville.com/Learning-From/Santa-Monica-Venice-Beach/i-qDmHQp9/0/M/P1490857-M.jpg)
(http://photos.metrojacksonville.com/Learning-From/Santa-Monica-Venice-Beach/i-f786CQR/0/M/P1490901-M.jpg)
(http://photos.metrojacksonville.com/Learning-From/Santa-Monica-Venice-Beach/i-b68BK9V/0/M/P1490916-M.jpg)
(http://photos.metrojacksonville.com/Learning-From/Santa-Monica-Venice-Beach/i-7Qx8NZv/0/M/P1490942-M.jpg)
(http://photos.metrojacksonville.com/Learning-From/Hollywood-CA-2011/i-7XcGK5L/0/M/P1490569-M.jpg)
(http://photos.metrojacksonville.com/Learning-From/Hollywood-CA-2011/i-ZXTXjTV/0/M/P1490666-M.jpg)
(http://photos.metrojacksonville.com/Learning-From/Hollywood-CA-2011/i-XB7fwc6/0/M/P1490791-M.jpg)
(http://photos.metrojacksonville.com/Transit/Pacific-Surfliner-2011/i-5V6NBw7/0/M/P1480541-M.jpg)
TOD in the burbs. People are getting off the Amtrak Pacific Surfliner and walking across the street to their townhomes.
The Strand in Jacksonville has/had a slogan, 'ALL CITY NO LIMITS', I can't think of anyplace on earth this fits more then the overall Los Angeles basin. For those who have never been there, imagine San Marco mixed here and there with the downtown core and stretch that for 100 miles east to west, and nearly 200 miles north to south... THAT IS LA.
Ennis where was the Metrolink station in the last photo?
OCKLAWAHA
.Being a Jacksonville area native and moving to Los Angeles a year ago...I can say that Los Angeles is extremely overrated. Downtown Los Angeles is an exact clone to Downtown Jacksonville, but add a couple million of people. When I moved here, I was shocked to find out how Downtown Los Angeles lacks so much. If it wasn't for L.A. Live, there would be no nightlife...with the exception of a few clubs here and there. The Metro most certainly has to be one of the worst transit systems in the nation. In this one year, I have lived in Long Beach, Hollywood, Downtown, and Baldwin Hills and the commute to get from any neighborhood to Downtown is obsurd. They are working on expanding the Metro Red Line that only goes from Downtown to North Hollywood..a couple miles shy of Burbank (which would be helpful). The Metro Purple line, reminds me of the Skyway in Jax. It takes the exact same route as the Metro Red Line, with the exception of two extra stops in the Koreatown area. The Expo Line is set to finally open it's Culver City leg from Downtown in November and that would be the first form of transportation besides bus, that goes to West Los Angeles. However, despite all of that...LOS ANGELES IS AN AMAZING PLACE TO LIVE!!!! I LOVE L.A.!!!!!!!!
(http://photos.metrojacksonville.com/Learning-From/Hollywood-CA-2011/i-ZXTXjTV/0/M/P1490666-M.jpg)
Please tell me you went to Astro Burger in North Hollywood... it was literally up the street from that picture.
Dangit I'm craving me some L&L Hawaiin BBQ right now(btw BoomShakaLaka in Atlantic Beach is the closest thing you'll get to L&L, and it's fairly good-little pricier than L&L).
BTW, I have spent lots of time in Compton, LaBrea and even Gardena(East LA) and it really is not as bad as the movies depict it by any stretch of the imagination. In fact, there are areas and pockets in Compton and LaBrea that can be quite nice.
QuoteI also agree with fieldafm, LA-Long Beach, along with Portland, are both great choices if I ever leave Jacksonville.
Where else in this great country, can you surf and ski in the same day?? Then when you head back home, grab some In N Out... double double with fries animal style!
Quote from: fieldafm on September 20, 2011, 07:00:27 PM
BTW, I have spent lots of time in Compton, LaBrea and even Gardena(East LA) and it really is not as bad as the movies depict it by any stretch of the imagination. In fact, there are areas and pockets in Compton and LaBrea that can be quite nice.
.Hey buddy, I currently live in City Terrace (East L.A.)....Gardena is in the Southbay towards Long Beach ;)
Quote from: fieldafm on September 20, 2011, 07:00:27 PM
Please tell me you went to Astro Burger in North Hollywood... it was literally up the street from that picture.
Nope. Some guy mentioned going to In and Out Burger but my thought at the time was I didn't go to California to eat fast food. So I ended up in sit down restaurants for the most part.
Chain link fences around people's houses and bullet proof glass in the fast food joints is my radar for "you in the hood!" LA truly has the "ganstas" with the baggy pants, white tees, wife beaters that are tell tale in the hood. That said, Compton has long standing residents there, and definitely there are "pockets" as stated of nice neighorhoods. It is one of the cities oldest neighborhoods, where a large section of it was predominantely white, and other portions middle class blacks; it was not a poor community back in the day. There are very pretty Spanish style houses there too and a number of historical landmarks. While I don't know my history of Compton so well, I do know it is next to Watts (the riots in the 60s and later the LA Riots in the 90s,) which caused "white flight" and middle class flight to the suburbs. Compton is well known due to rap music and rappers from Compton where the hood is immortalized. The population has changed all around, and I do not believe it is predominantely black now. Like many areas in LA there is a mix of all races, colors, and economic levels. Compton still has inexpensive houses compared to other parts of LA and at the height of the market here they were selling at upwards of half a million dollars. Honestly, crime ridden and delapitated neighborhoods' houses were selling for $500k+ during the height. Insane.
There are a number of L and Ls in LA. Delicious macaroni salad. Think I'll go get me some. . . . .LOL. There are a couple just a stone's throw away.
And plenty of food trucks. There is an event going on at the Home Depot Center in October where 35+ food trucks will be there. . . . . Hoo Rah.
Lastly, there are some great, great areas in LA County. Pasadena, particularly Old Town, I love the quirkiness of Venice Beach, Silver Lake has made a comeback, and some areas around the Farmer's Market downtown.
www.paddlethelariver.org
QuoteAnd plenty of food trucks. There is an event going on at the Home Depot Center in October where 35+ food trucks will be there. . . . . Hoo Rah.
It's all about Kogi BBQ. I think I have come pretty darn close to perfecting their pork tacos and kimichi.
Gastrobus is good too.
Wow, I'm really feeling like an LA trip is in my very near future.
QuotePasadena, particularly Old Town
Pasadena is cool. I spend a great deal of time in Pomona county and really any of those places are pretty cool.
Really as long as you stay out of the 909, you'll find an extraordinary amount of places in the LA basin that you can fall in love with, IMO.
QuoteHey buddy, I currently live in City Terrace (East L.A.)....Gardena is in the Southbay towards Long Beach
I thought anywhere around LAX would be considered 'East LA' ?
QuoteNope. Some guy mentioned going to In and Out Burger but my thought at the time was I didn't go to California to eat fast food. So I ended up in sit down restaurants for the most part.
You and your fancy per diems.... you missed out. LA is the burger epicenter of the world.
Quote from: fieldafm on September 20, 2011, 07:01:47 PM
QuoteI also agree with fieldafm, LA-Long Beach, along with Portland, are both great choices if I ever leave Jacksonville.
Where else in this great country, can you surf and ski in the same day?? Then when you head back home, grab some In N Out... double double with fries animal style!
I'll be the one gorging on Jack-N-The-Box fried tacos or perhaps we'll meet at Tommy's on Beverly Blvd. over in Westlake. Your right about the variety packed into such a small area. It is possible to snow ski on Mount Baldy in the morning, fish through the lunch hour at Lake Arrowhead, Play rockhound or pan gold in Placerita Canyon in the afternoon, and watch the evening settle in over the Pacific Ocean, all in ONE DAY and within 100 miles.
Progress? In the 1880's Henry Flagler visited Palatka with plans to make the 'Gem City' into America's next great tourist resort, they told him to go away. Interestingly when we were the movie capital of the country, no less then 4 major Interurban Electric Railways were incorporated to stretch from downtown Jacksonville to Ocala, Palatka, St. Augustine and between St. Augustine and Jacksonville Beach. St. Elmo Acosta pushed to get the county to install an interurban railway between Downtown and Jacksonville Beach... In every case those projects were killed. The movie industry was chased away. Miami became America's next great resort. The Great Depression and war effectively stopped any forward motion Jacksonville had. Our locally based international carrier, National Airlines, packed up and moved south. We were the first city in the state to embrace the freeway as a solution. Jacksonville totally wiped out its waterfront industry in the 1960's. We abandoned our Union Station in 1974. In the 1980's we invested in a stillborn Skyway. The 1990's were marked by completely leveling Fairfield, Brooklyn and LaVilla. Now we are planning to shut down street vendors. Worse still, today were proposing to shut down mobility fee's on new development that would pay for massive infrastructure improvements. ...And some of you probably wonder why iloveionia, fieldafm, Zoo and I get all nostalgic for Southern California! Go figure Jacksonville, 'No tiki, no laundry.' Yeah LA isn't perfect, but neither is Jacksonville.OCKLAWAHA
Right!
Right!
And there is a mapped bike path that almost takes you cleanly in a circle around the LA River and the San Gabriel River. I do like the bike paths on the San Gabriel, the LA River at Long Beach is clean and neat but a lot of transciency lives on or near the river. The northern part of the LA River is really nice.
I don't think anyone living south of the 405 or boardering it considers themself "East LA" East LA is north of the 105 and west of the 710, almost to downtown near Boyle Heights (or probably right there.) It is not cooth to say I live in East LA.
Quote from: Ocklawaha on September 20, 2011, 06:50:33 PM
Ennis where was the Metrolink station in the last photo?
Fullerton. Here are some random transit pics snapped that didn't make the photo thread:
(http://photos.metrojacksonville.com/Transit/Pacific-Surfliner-2011/i-7RP5L4S/0/L/P1490352-L.jpg)
Inside the Pacific Surfliner(http://photos.metrojacksonville.com/Transit/Pacific-Surfliner-2011/i-W2Wscdq/0/L/P1490357-L.jpg)
A cafe at Fullerton Station(http://photos.metrojacksonville.com/Transit/Pacific-Surfliner-2011/i-bpdVWMF/0/L/P1490363-L.jpg)
Lots of these out there. I noticed several had multiuse paths next to them.(http://photos.metrojacksonville.com/Transit/Pacific-Surfliner-2011/i-wrSXxT9/0/L/P1490372-L.jpg)
Love the art deco bridges.(http://photos.metrojacksonville.com/Transit/Pacific-Surfliner-2011/i-bbQFxCx/0/L/P1490375-L.jpg)
A Union Station platform. Amtrak on the left, Metrolink commuter rail on the right.(http://photos.metrojacksonville.com/Transit/Pacific-Surfliner-2011/i-Ncbcwsq/0/L/P1490380-L.jpg)
Inside a Red Line train (heavy rail subway)(http://photos.metrojacksonville.com/Transit/Pacific-Surfliner-2011/i-qdvwLL9/0/L/P1480525-L.jpg)
Looking for my San Diego Amtrak train platform in Union Station.(http://photos.metrojacksonville.com/Transit/Pacific-Surfliner-2011/i-ZbGpDD8/0/L/P1480536-L.jpg)
Metro maintenance yard(http://photos.metrojacksonville.com/Transit/Pacific-Surfliner-2011/i-srDSVQf/0/L/P1480542-L.jpg)
Anaheim Station. Catch the train to the ballgame.(http://photos.metrojacksonville.com/Transit/Pacific-Surfliner-2011/i-jbQXNqb/0/L/P1480554-L.jpg)
Or take the train to the beach.(http://photos.metrojacksonville.com/Learning-From/Los-Angeles-June-2011/i-52CSn3P/0/L/DSC0125-L.jpg)
Metro Rapid BRT. Just like rail? Not really.(http://photos.metrojacksonville.com/Learning-From/Los-Angeles-June-2011/i-RKdwqqt/0/L/DSC0336-L.jpg)
Inside the Gold Line LRT. Anyone from JTA familiar with this line?(http://photos.metrojacksonville.com/Learning-From/Los-Angeles-June-2011/i-w2Ndmrd/0/L/DSC0333-L.jpg)
For those of you who weren't around in MJ's early days, JTA used this line as proof that LRT cost more than their old billion dollar BRT plan.(http://photos.metrojacksonville.com/Learning-From/Los-Angeles-June-2011/i-nX5D3bF/0/L/DSC0331-L.jpg)
The consultants failed to mention that a good portion of it is elevated.(http://photos.metrojacksonville.com/Learning-From/Los-Angeles-June-2011/i-tF8C3Bp/0/L/DSC0339-L.jpg)
Oh yeah, it goes underground too.(http://photos.metrojacksonville.com/Learning-From/Los-Angeles-June-2011/i-SMzLjHb/0/L/DSC0363-L.jpg)
TOD? You betcha!(http://photos.metrojacksonville.com/Learning-From/Los-Angeles-June-2011/i-GhdvVrG/0/L/P1490771-L.jpg)
Metro local and rapid buses(http://photos.metrojacksonville.com/Learning-From/Long-Beach-2011/i-9f4ph5x/0/L/P1490383-L.jpg)
Want to save some money on a transit center? Visit Long Beach.(http://photos.metrojacksonville.com/Learning-From/Long-Beach-2011/i-NmLfpmz/0/L/P1490394-L.jpg)
No need to have different modes blocks apart.(http://photos.metrojacksonville.com/Learning-From/Long-Beach-2011/i-KZNCStx/0/L/P1490398-L.jpg)
When designing a transit center, remember bikes are a mode of mobility too.(http://photos.metrojacksonville.com/Learning-From/Long-Beach-2011/i-RwKTtzW/0/L/P1490384-L.jpg)
(http://www.roadfood.com/Digest/Photos/2011/June%202011/Clifton's.jpg)
On weekends we used to go to Clifton's Brookside in downtown. In the late 50's and 60's it was still a fabulous place both for food and for atmosphere. Waterfalls, a stream that twists through past the tables, a Alpine chapel, and the mother of all murals as big as the redwoods it depicts. Clifton's Brookside has been leased and is being/has been restored to it's original glory. When they get it operating again, if it's anything like the original, missing it would be a crime.
The original I think was Clifton's Pacific over on Olive Street, but Brookside was the one I clearly remember. Clifton's opened in the 1930's, and was famous for his 'Eat and pay whatever you think it was worth' policy. He also NEVER turned away a homeless or any other hungry person, you were welcomed to eat free if you couldn't pay. The new incarnation of Clifton's is hiring from one of the rehab missions that teach culinary skills so it ought to be just as cool as before.
BTW, At various times I lived in Long Beach, Paramount and Santa Clarita. My sisters and I still have property there and in the high desert, so one might say I already have reservations. OCKLAWAHA
A blast from the past!
QuoteJTA: Why BRT is the Better Choice for Jacksonville
...Comparisons between BRT and LRT are often made, including by some urbanites here on the First Coast. They are rarely made, however, using an apples-to-apples test as most systems differ so greatly. But one city, Los Angeles, may offer the perfect look at how BRT and LRT match up head-to-head.
Los Angeles, the nation’s second largest city, has both BRT (called the Orange Line) and LRT (light rail transit called the Gold Line). LA’s Gold Line (LRT) opened in 2003, while the Orange Line (BRT) opened in 2005. Each is about 14 miles long and each has 13 stations, approximately one mile apart. Both were built at-grade, have signal-priority granting the transit vehicles green lights at intersections and both serve primarily a suburban, middle-class area. These nearly identical routes, length and number of stops makes for a perfect comparison of LRT versus BRT.
The BRT line was expected to start out averaging between 5-7,000 weekday boardings and then grow to 22,000 within 15 years. Remarkably, the BRT had 2020 projection by its seventh month. By comparison,the LRT line was expected to start with around 30,000weekday boardings, increasing to 60,000 within 20years. However, the actual LRT ridership has been lower than that of the BRT â€" obviously far below projections.
The capital cost of the BRT was $349 million (or$25 million per mile). The LRT cost more thantwice that amount â€" $859 million ($61 millionper mile). The operating cost also favors the BRT,costing about 54 cents per passenger comparedto the $1.08 for each LRT passenger.
In Jacksonville the numbers also favor BRT. While projected 2020 daily weekday ridership numbers are slightly higher on LRT (BRT - 34,000 to LRT - 41,000), the projected cost makes BRT a much better deal. A 34-mile BRT system here is expected to cost between $388-557 million or $11-16 million per mile. LRT on the otherhand would cost a total of $974 million - $1.1 billion or $28-32 million per mile. No matter how you look at it, BRT is the most cost-effective choice â€" the better choice â€" for Jacksonville. Not only does JTA think so,so too does the Federal Transit Administration (FTA).
full article: http://www.metrojacksonville.com/article/2007-dec-jta-why-brt-is-the-better-choice-for-jacksonville
Back in those days, someone forgot to mention that the LRT line included in the BRT story wasn't exactly apples to apples. The BRT example was on an at-grade street while the LRT line is elevated in some areas and goes underground in others.
Yeah the crooks payed to throw the JTA 'study' also used the subway that is called Buffalo Light Rail, and I think their 3rd example was St. Louis, also elevated or subway much of the way. We wouldn't need any of that elevated rail nonsense in Jacksonville.
Ennis, did you, or do any of our California friends have photos of the BUS SIDE of Los Angeles Union Station? Talk about a transit center being a one-stop shop!
OCKLAWAHA
Any LB photos Ock? I have hiked Mt. Lowe and most of the areas up there, also looked and studied history books. I'm 39 so my experience is pictures, books, and hiking the trails only. Both the LA River and San Gabriel River have a two lane bike bath. They go on forever and connect top and bottom. Let me dig up something.
http://www.bikely.com/maps/bike-path/LA-San-Gabriel-River-Route
Quote from: iloveionia on September 20, 2011, 09:07:48 PM
Any LB photos Ock? I have hiked Mt. Lowe and most of the areas up there, also looked and studied history books. I'm 39 so my experience is pictures, books, and hiking the trails only. Both the LA River and San Gabriel River have a two lane bike bath. They go on forever and connect top and bottom. Let me dig up something.
I'll have to dig around and see what I have or I can find for you. If they are 'found' photos, they would be of places I've been in the past. BTW, if you like a good hike, have you been to the Devils Punchbowl? Very cool and be ready to get really wet... well, if there is any water in the creek. The rocks form a natural slide into a deep pool. Gee, just like the one up in Ben Hur in the old Mother Lode area and the infamous 'Dunlap Commune' where I misspent some of my youth.
http://www.devils-punchbowl.com/
You could do JAX a great service with photos from the bus side of Union Station, something that shows the proximity of bus to train to subway to Light Rail. I keep looking at those new condo's north of the station, um, tempting.
Most of the good ol day memories center around Long Beach-Lakewood-Paramount and to a lesser extent LA and Fullerton. Slightly more recent memories (when you were about 9 years old) center around Granada Hills, Griffith Park (Los Angeles Live Steamers), Burbank, and most of all Santa Clarita-Newhall-Canyon Country. Much more up to date is Landers and 29 Palms, (my desert cabin is in Landers) north of Palm Springs, Yucca Valley. If you get out towards the desert and if you like unbelievable fruits, nuts and dates, don't miss a stop at Hadley's.
http://www.hadleyfruitorchards.com/home.aspx
You might also enjoy a look at LA as it was... The Orange Empire Railroad Museum in Perris has several city blocks of old buildings, as well as complete operating segments of the ORIGINAL LA Yellow Cars, and Pacific Electric. Weekends are very nice, and you could easily lose a day out there.
http://www.oerm.org/
One of my favorite places in California is Bishop-Laws-Lone Pine-Independence-Mammoth Lakes, there is a very cool old style 'motor court' lodge in Lee Vining. This is the back door to Yosemite. The valley you'd travel through is where LA stole the water from the Owens River. The north of the valley is pristine, cool, well watered, and the south end which is where steamboats operated across Keeler Lake is among the most desolate places on earth. There is a railroad museum in Law's (east of Bishop) which is much more of a historical old west site then it is a railroad museum. Nearby Bodie (ghost town) is cool to visit too. Mono Lake is stunning, and don't miss the volcanic tufa formations, just DON'T touch the water, it's full of arsenic. If you make this trip be sure to top off your gas tank, the stuff is priced like gold in Bishop. Guess you know to ALWAYS carry water out in the boonies.
http://www.lawsmuseum.org/
http://leevining.com/
http://www.parks.ca.gov/?page_id=514
If you'd like, I'll see what I can dig up, and post more cool places as they occur to me... OCKLAWAHA
I am familiar with some of these places in name. You've now just added some wonderful ideas on my "must do list" in California. Looking forward to perusing the sites.
We are camping at Point Mugu SP north of Malibu over the Thanksgiving holiday. Right on the beach, in an RV. CA has a wonderful park system.
I just looked at google earth to locate the bus terminal at Union Station. I walked in that space and had no idea that's where the buses came in at. I just thought it was another entrance to the station and turned around. Anyway, you're right, its connected pretty well. I did take some pics of the lobby heading into the underground concourse but they didn't turn out too good so I deleted them. All I have is the ceiling of the bus terminal entrance.
(http://photos.metrojacksonville.com/Transit/Pacific-Surfliner-2011/i-3r7pb2f/0/L/P1480527-L.jpg)
(http://photos.metrojacksonville.com/Transit/Pacific-Surfliner-2011/i-225sJWC/0/L/P1490379-L.jpg)
This image is fuzzy but it captures some of the retail inside of the terminal, near the concourse entrance.