Kids Kampus Vanishes
(http://photos.metrojacksonville.com/photos/1321385583_jwLB9VN-M.jpg)
With the NFL football season quickly approaching, Metro Jacksonville visits the flex space formerly known as Kids Kampus at Metropolitan Park.
Full Article
http://www.metrojacksonville.com/article/2011-sep-kids-kampus-vanishes
Nice pics.
But I still have HUGE concerns. On the surface everyone is running around with high fives! But behind the scenes and this was highlighted at the Aug. 31 Waterways 2 1/2 hour subcommittee meeting of FIND. HUGE announcements.
Ran into Jim Piggott at city hall and asked him about the $300,000, $300,000, $300,000 estimate for water damage or some termite damage that needs money for repairs. Get a second estimate. Ken Amaro....your turn.
2011-560? Good, Bad? Anyone
JOBS, JOBS, JOBS, JOBS, for who? Palms Fish Camp?
Sooo, where there was once constant activity, now there's hardly any at all? Sounds about right.
And doesn't downtown Jacksonville have an abundance of these "flex spaces" already in the form of surface/vacant lots?? Hell, take your pick. Plenty to go around for the tailgaters. Really not trying to complain, but this city seems like its constantly in "knock something existing down to rebuild something else" mode, instead of working with what it already has available & sticking to some kind of grand scheme.
Who wants to bet that whatever they do end up using this for won't even get halfway utilized as it did before.
I am glad they took down the fences. I will have to check it out this weekend. Are the fences around the rest of metro park coming down?
I know there were supposedly problems with drainage or plumbing at Kids Kampus, but it was a really cool space. I remember taking my wife's little sister there several years in a row.
Now it's a giant empty field. Progress I guess? The picture makes it look like there are plans to install a fountain in the area. Something for wading I hope, like in the waterfront part in Charleston?
If the city wants to invest in a fountain, it shouldn't be at Metropolitan Park. It should be in a compact pedestrian friendly setting or a place that can generate everyday use.
Wasn't the Kids Campus successful? Maybe I am wrong, but what exactly is the purpose of doing this? Spend money to make it a giant backyard?
I hosted and attending many birthday parties there. I hope they do something worthwhile, because it went from a place I visited 4-5 times a year to something I have no reason to ever visit.
I'll bet the maintenance costs for the new space are much lower than Kids Kampus. Why pay higher O&M for something that is barely used?
So this is what Peyton wanted all that money for???? You have got to be kidding me.
Quote from: peestandingup on September 09, 2011, 05:48:34 AM
Sooo, where there was once constant activity, now there's hardly any at all? Sounds about right.
And doesn't downtown Jacksonville have an abundance of these "flex spaces" already in the form of surface/vacant lots?? Hell, take your pick. Plenty to go around for the tailgaters. Really not trying to complain, but this city seems like its constantly in "knock something existing down to rebuild something else" mode, instead of working with what it already has available & sticking to some kind of grand scheme.
Who wants to bet that whatever they do end up using this for won't even get halfway utilized as it did before.
This whole thing, taking one of our few successful urban venues and matching it to the myriad vacant lots scattered all over downtown was a set up deal orchestrated by our former boy mayor. At the public planning charrette, he showed up and told the crowd "I'm not here to change your vision, but downtown urgently needs more flex space, we don't have enough room for parking or tailgate activities, so please keep this in mind when you make your recommendations." Like a room full of lemmings every citizen table proceded to sweep the park clean of every improvement. I was there and hopping mad, I told the little twerp my opinion just outside the door of the room.
Another classic Jacksonville case of snatching defeat from the jaws of victory. Peyton simply had a solution looking for a problem and to accomplish his goals he stole from the joy of our children. Quote from: urbanlibertarian on September 09, 2011, 08:48:24 AM
I'll bet the maintenance costs for the new space are much lower than Kids Kampus. Why pay higher O&M for something that is barely used?
Brilliant Jax think. I suppose that spending the millions to waste the millions already invested was good stewardship too? Since we're 'saving' so much from closing this childcentric park, just imagine how much we'd save if we just closed all of the parks? A city without parks, libraries, water, sewer, police or fire, savor the wealth. OCKLAWAHA
I think it looks better. Kids Campus was an eyesore.
Quote from: TheProfessor on September 09, 2011, 10:04:51 AM
I think it looks better. Kids Campus was an eyesore.
Yeah but Kids Kampus was something that people USED. Now it's a beautiful empty lawn, same as all the other beautiful empty lawns in parks all over town. I just don't understand it.
IMHO, there were aspects of the Kids Kampus that looked like they were not very well-designed. Overall, the idea of a family friendly park should have been a winner for Metropolitan Park. I believe, however, that the park was not promoted as much as it should have been and there was a perception (Thanks to the fences, now gone) that Metropolitan Park was not as open to the public as it should be...
Fences keep tots from wandering in the street during a momentary lapse of parental sight, certainly white picket fences would have performed the same task and looked much more welcoming.
The park might have been poorly designed but by Jacksonville standards it was the only game in town. On a positive note we managed to trade all of that limited childish junk improvement for tons of variety. Today we boast Zoysia, Bermuda, St. Augustine, Centipede and even some Bahia! Quick grab your cameras, junior will be thrilled.
OCKLAWAHA
that looked like a white trash backyard right on the river. those cheap plastic "houses" fade in the sun within a few years. it was a huge waste of money. but hey at least now we have unpaved riverfront parking
IMO glad its gone. I am not against a kiddie park, just not on the river front.
I think a lot of you guys are missing the point. Something was there, now there's nothing. And it cost millions extra to make it into nothing.
The Kids Kampus may very well have been kinda crappy (I never got the chance to go & I didn't even know it existed until last year), but it doesn't sound like it was anything major that couldn't have been fixed relatively easily.
Quote from: peestandingup on September 09, 2011, 12:52:13 PM
I think a lot of you guys are missing the point. Something was there, now there's nothing. And it cost millions extra to make it into nothing.
The Kids Kampus may very well have been kinda crappy (I never got the chance to go & I didn't even know it existed until last year), but it doesn't sound like it was anything major that couldn't have been fixed relatively easily.
You're forgetting the Jacksonville mindset: "I don't like it, tear it down"
Applies to old buildings, houses, waterfront playgrounds, etc.
The other Jacksonville mantra: "Surface parking is better than everything."
what a shame...
is this the ultimate plan for the park? The concept art makes it look like they're planning on doing a lot more. Or did those plans get axed?
Quote from: Jaxson on September 09, 2011, 10:45:46 AM
IMHO, there were aspects of the Kids Kampus that looked like they were not very well-designed. Overall, the idea of a family friendly park should have been a winner for Metropolitan Park. I believe, however, that the park was not promoted as much as it should have been and there was a perception (Thanks to the fences, now gone) that Metropolitan Park was not as open to the public as it should be...
Indeed, I took my daughters there countless times. Went to many birthday parties hosted there. It always seemed to be busy on weekends and was definitely an attraction in the summer with the water feature. But it was hardly ever advertised. I'll miss it, but I'm not heart broken over it. There's still a neat water feature for kids to splash in at the park in Murray Hill off of Kingsbury.
Quote from: justinthered on September 09, 2011, 02:22:22 PM
is this the ultimate plan for the park? The concept art makes it look like they're planning on doing a lot more. Or did those plans get axed?
They are planning on doing more, including improving the river access. Let's hope they stick with it and don't just stop where they are.
Quote from: Tacachale on September 09, 2011, 02:34:44 PM
Quote from: justinthered on September 09, 2011, 02:22:22 PM
is this the ultimate plan for the park? The concept art makes it look like they're planning on doing a lot more. Or did those plans get axed?
They are planning on doing more, including improving the river access. Let's hope they stick with it and don't just stop where they are.
Oh it will be a lot better, I even read that it will be fully integrated, they're going to mix Bermuda and Zoysia! How thrilling is that going to be? I bet kids from all across the region show up with their parents to see the MILLION DOLLAR GRASS. OCKLAWAHA
tear it down for more money than we put it up/ better have nothing than something/ great to have a public place where there is nobody around/ maybe it will evolve into a star parking lot one day!
Quote from: Tacachale on September 09, 2011, 02:34:44 PM
They are planning on doing more, including improving the river access. Let's hope they stick with it and don't just stop where they are.
What are they planning? Improving the river access? How so? The meetings that I've attended will restrict Public Access and economic opportunity to our St. Johns River our American Heritage River. Please, What is the positive news that we will be sharing with our Regional Partners?
Tacahale, Would you like to paddle Hogans Creek? We'll Make it Happen.
I prefer they don't spend another penny on this space until a new DDA is created and DT project priorities are established. In my mind, all DT project money should be invested within a compact setting for a period of time. Clustering complementing uses within a compact pedestrian friendly setting is the best way achieve vibrancy. Metropolitan Park is too isolated from the Northbank core to have a significant impact on DT revitalization.
I am so glad I did not "grow up" in a world of the likes of Kid Campus(screw the K)..........there I would be........transfixed on The River......young fingers grasping those damn fence bars.........Jail.
This is the image so many of us in the boat and water recreation world recite when ascending on the adjacent property as predictably as the tide.
Glancing over towards the Shipyards,Noone Point/Pier, more mutterings........why this in the face of Potential?......
I am impressed that the intrusion has been removed, Peyton Administration initiative.........no matter how quiet.
What we have now is a clean slate.
This quiet move likely screams future intent.
Quote from: Noone on September 09, 2011, 05:51:40 PM
Quote from: Tacachale on September 09, 2011, 02:34:44 PM
They are planning on doing more, including improving the river access. Let's hope they stick with it and don't just stop where they are.
What are they planning? Improving the river access? How so? The meetings that I've attended will restrict Public Access and economic opportunity to our St. Johns River our American Heritage River. Please, What is the positive news that we will be sharing with our Regional Partners?
Tacahale, Would you like to paddle Hogans Creek? We'll Make it Happen.
I don't know what they're planning exactly and I can't find it online, but when the city council approved this "improvement" to the Kids Kampus area, the things that were brought up specifically were increasing the green space and improving the river access. I'm not saying this was a smart move; my only point is, whatever they're planning, I hope they actually follow through with it, rather than just leaving it a big empty space forever.
And yes, I'd love to go kayaking sometime.
Lake, I disagree that Met Park could never have a significant impact on downtown. If the amphitheater project from back in the day hadn't been thwarted by myopic fools, it would have helped close the city's general gap in mid-sized and mid-large music venues, and if done right it would have had an enormous influence on the acts who would have played here. But I agree that anything less than a modern amphitheater project probably isn't worth spending a lot of money on when there are other more pressing issues.
Quote from: north miami on September 09, 2011, 08:48:39 PM
What we have now is a clean slate.
This quiet move likely screams future intent.
Or yet more big plans that never materialize.
Quote from: Tacachale on September 09, 2011, 08:52:57 PM
Quote from: Noone on September 09, 2011, 05:51:40 PM
Quote from: Tacachale on September 09, 2011, 02:34:44 PM
They are planning on doing more, including improving the river access. Let's hope they stick with it and don't just stop
I disagree that Met Park could never have a significant impact on downtown.
for many,Met Park and adjacent is in fact draw to 'Downtown'
Quote from: Ocklawaha on September 09, 2011, 11:12:59 AM
Fences keep tots from wandering in the street during a momentary lapse of parental sight, certainly white picket fences would have performed the same task and looked much more welcoming.
glad I grew up in a world of Rock Pit,Canal,Lake,Beach,Ocean,Swamp,Biscayne Bay,tidal flow,big Azzz waves,sharks,barracuda,snakes,lightning,sun burn,wood white fences.
Kid Campus reflective of a Community where too many youth never step foot on a salt water beach that defines the eastern boundary of their home county.
There is a place for the Campus elsewhere,in the name of Kids welfare let's grow up and finally look to this property for wat iit could be.
I beg the question of my earlier post..........what is the grand scheme for the property??
Quote from: thelakelander on September 09, 2011, 06:32:14 PM
Clustering complementing uses within a compact pedestrian friendly setting is the best way achieve vibrancy. Metropolitan Park is too isolated from the Northbank core to have a significant impact on DT revitalization.
Lake,we take a stand according to where we sit and having "sat" at this 'isolated' sector,so on the ground aware of the nearby "core" I respectfully disagree.
It floors me to think of this area as "isolated".I bet 'the public' would be in agreement.
If this was a State Conservation Land project MP would function as key component.
Quote from: Tacachale on September 09, 2011, 08:54:53 PM
Quote from: north miami on September 09, 2011, 08:48:39 PM
What we have now is a clean slate.
This quiet move likely screams future intent.
Or yet more big plans that never materialize.
10/4
carefully note the Kampus Vanish "based on citizen input".
still fascinated with typically obscure intent,outcome profile.
The faded plastic houses were ugly as hell. Kids don't care. My niece and nephew loved to ride their bikes into them. Kids Kampus and the mini water park were one of the family friendly features that drew my wife and I to Jax from DC. We came to start our family. We have a 9 month old who I would love to take to Metro Park next summer. I guess she'll be stuck in the plastic wading pool. Thanks Jax...I could have done that in DC...
I agree with Lake. Focus investing on the urban core!
Quote from: Tacachale on September 09, 2011, 08:52:57 PM
Lake, I disagree that Met Park could never have a significant impact on downtown. If the amphitheater project from back in the day hadn't been thwarted by myopic fools, it would have helped close the city's general gap in mid-sized and mid-large music venues, and if done right it would have had an enormous influence on the acts who would have played here. But I agree that anything less than a modern amphitheater project probably isn't worth spending a lot of money on when there are other more pressing issues.
Notice, that I never said "never." However, we certainly need to accept and understand that Metropolitan Park is over a mile from the heart of the downtown core.
IF we want downtown to be vibrant (a vibrant downtown means one that is walkable with activity 24/7 within a compact area), then we must cluster complementing investments within a compact setting to make it happen. This includes leveraging our limited tax dollars in ways that best get us to this goals. Investing in infrastructure in a park a mile outside of the heart will not result in the same significant gains as investing the same things right in the center. For example, would you agree that the jazz festival has a more significant impact on DT, at the pedestrian level, after being moved from Metropolitan Park? Imagine the impact if more Metropolitan Park events were relocated to the historic heart of downtown and the waterfront between the Acosta and Main Street bridges? Ever wonder how we and Baltimore have spent funds on similar DT redevelopment projects but our DT still struggles? It all revolves around making/or not making those investments within a compact urban setting to stimulate synergy and pedestrian foot traffic.
In other words, if there is a plan to drop +$20 million in Metropolitan Park, reaching downtown vibrancy would be better served by shifting those amenity investments to compact urban locations like Hemming Plaza, the Courthouse Square or the Northbank riverwalk between CSX and the Landing.
Over time, as downtown reaches a certain level of vibrancy and expands out to Metropolitan Park, then things done in the Sports District will have a more significant impact on downtown vibrancy. Nevertheless, realistically speaking, we're a decade or two away from Metropolitan Park having a significant impact on downtown vibrancy (24/7 activity within a compact walkable setting).
Quote from: north miami on September 09, 2011, 09:29:13 PM
Quote from: thelakelander on September 09, 2011, 06:32:14 PM
Clustering complementing uses within a compact pedestrian friendly setting is the best way achieve vibrancy. Metropolitan Park is too isolated from the Northbank core to have a significant impact on DT revitalization.
Lake,we take a stand according to where we sit and having "sat" at this 'isolated' sector,so on the ground aware of the nearby "core" I respectfully disagree.
It floors me to think of this area as "isolated".I bet 'the public' would be in agreement.
Let's go back and look at my statement:
Clustering complementing uses within a compact pedestrian friendly setting is the best way achieve vibrancy. Metropolitan Park is too isolated from the Northbank core to have a significant impact on DT revitalization.I don't think anyone here would disagree that the key characteristic to a vibrancy downtown is being a pedestrian friendly setting. To be pedestrian friendly, your built environment must have a high level of walkability. So what is the definition of walkability?
One proposed definition for walkability is: "The extent to which the built environment is friendly to the presence of people living, shopping, visiting, enjoying or spending time in an area". Factors affecting walkability include, but are not limited to: land use mix; street connectivity; residential density (residential units per area of residential use); "transparency" which includes amount of glass in windows and doors, as well as orientation and proximity of homes and buildings to watch over the street; plenty of places to go to near the majority of homes; placemaking, street designs that work for people, not just cars and retail floor area ratio. Major infrastructural factors include access to mass transit, presence and quality of footpaths, buffers to moving traffic (planter strips, on-street parking or bike lanes) and pedestrian crossings, aesthetics, nearby local destinations, air quality, shade or sun in appropriate seasons, street furniture, traffic volume and speed. One of the best ways to quickly determine the walkability of a block, corridor or neighborhood is to count the number of people walking, lingering and engaging in optional activities within a space.http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Walkability
The walkability and pedestrian friendly built environment of downtown abruptly ends at Liberty Street, along the Bay Street corridor. That's 3/4 of a mile west of Kids Kampus. That 3/4 mile walk is characterized by parking lots, a jail, a factory with a blank wall at pedestrian level, vacant lots and an elevated expressway. In terms of a pedestrian scale environment, that 3/4 mile pedestrian hostile environment would qualify something on the other end as being "isolated" at the pedestrian level.
(http://photos.metrojacksonville.com/photos/868408626_LDU2V-M.jpg)
1. Ambassador Hotel, 2. Barnett/Laura Trio, 3. Jacksonville Landing and 4. Metropolitan Park. This image illustrates the distance between Metropolitan Park and "core" walkable area of downtown.http://www.metrojacksonville.com/article/2010-may-creating-synergy-history-the-landing-or-metro-park
Example 1: A vibrant urban area with a high level of pedestrian scale walkability.
(http://photos.metrojacksonville.com/Learning-From/Santa-Monica-Venice-Beach/i-86QZxf7/0/M/P1490854-M.jpg)
Example 2: Downtown Jacksonville core
(http://photos.metrojacksonville.com/Development/Urban-Construction-July11/i-h8bfDd2/0/M/P1470923-M.jpg)
Example 3: Kids Kampus/Metropolitan Park - the downtown skyline can be seen in the distant background
(http://photos.metrojacksonville.com/photos/678941349_fMCfg-M.jpg)
If the goal of the city is to make downtown a vibrant place, which example setting would serve as the more logical place for the investment of limited funds to achieve that goal (shown in example 1)? Example 2 or 3?
QuoteIf this was a State Conservation Land project MP would function as key component.
This statement is sort of an oxymoron. We're not talking about a rural undeveloped area. We're talking about a downtown core that everyone claims they want to be vibrant. Furthermore, I'd suggest my position that Metropolitan Park has a limited impact on the downtown is a fact, proven by Metropolitan Park already being in that location for 30 years. The park itself is proof that investing in an isolated park site a mile outside of the walkable downtown core isn't a logical move for a downtown revitalization plan. In fact, the park being there is a detriment to downtown vibrancy. It's a detriment because we search for ways to make it successful by locating events there that would have a better impact on downtown, if they were in the core themselves.
Dropping $30 million into it is just a repeat of the same sprawling failed urban public policies we've been doing since 1950. We already know this path does not lead to increased walkability, which is the central ingredient of a successful downtown. Why repeat the same expensive mistake again? Change course and place that desired kiddie water fountain, playscape or outdoor performance venue in or closer to the heart of the core instead.
(http://photos.metrojacksonville.com/Learning-From/Santa-Monica-Venice-Beach/i-DQJF9ms/0/M/P1490825-M.jpg)
Btw, this is what public spaces start to resemble when located within a compact setting. This image was taken two blocks west of the scene shown in Example 1.The images below are of Detroit's Campus Martius Park. All of our future urban park investments should be done in a manner that better integrates passive and recreational activity with the built environment around them.
(http://www.metrojacksonville.com/photos/thumbs/lrg-6015-p1140125.JPG)
(http://www.metrojacksonville.com/photos/thumbs/lrg-6006-p1140110.JPG)
(http://www.metrojacksonville.com/photos/thumbs/lrg-6000-p1140107.JPG)
(http://www.metrojacksonville.com/photos/thumbs/lrg-5999-p1140117.JPG)
(http://www.metrojacksonville.com/images/mainst_park/site_plan.jpg)
http://www.metrojacksonville.com/article/2008-sep-a-tale-of-two-parks
I think the tragic thing about the Kids Kampus fiasco is the fact that in a metro area of 1.4 million people we have next to nothing in the form of carnival, arcade, theme park, aka: children's attractions. Kids Kampus at least partially solved this dilemma. Then along comes our midget minded mayor who was weaned on concrete and gasoline and in one swoop he wrecks the whole place. His showing up at the charette and claiming "We need flex space in Jacksonville," (I'd translate that as him not thinking we have enough empty lots, cleared lots, surface parking and otherwise bombed out visual effects in downtown.
There isn't another city in the country with our rich landscape of City, State and National Parks, then again there probably isn't another city with such piss poor man made amenities. Sadly the few amenities we have are often stale or in a poor state of repair, its not like we can just throw away the little we have without doing damage.
I agree with Ennis, now that the damage is done, it's time to focus on downtown. In the fairly near future we might benefit from being able to "stretch out" our walkable core by centering along the Riverwalk. At least that extends the walkable part of downtown Jacksonville as opposed to a city like Orlando who's walkability must expand in concentric rings. Once we finally get a handle on downtowns core any expansion will likely go in the direction of Brooklyn and Southbank. Both Brooklyn and Southbank are located between very desirable residential and city center, there is simply nothing beyond the stadium/met park to drive organic infill.
OCKLAWAHA
well Ock...we do have Adventure Landing...and the City opened a splash park at Hanna Park this year that somewhat takes the place of Kids Kampus
They missed the boat on this one... should have laid down a big carpet of artificial turf. The initial cost would have been more than offset by the longevity of the material and the almost complete lack of wear and tear (nothing happening here, folks), saving big bucks on O&M.
How about teal colored shag carpet? Hell, at least we'd have something to point out and talk about. You can find acres of grass growing all over the once vibrant core.
OCKLAWAHA
Lake,thank you for your reviews.
We need more people like you.
Focus should be on DT not even sure why that needs to still be addressed at this stage. Kid Kampus another mistake just like having the school board building on prime river front land. It was mentioned before why worry about Met Park now when the Shipyards lay in ruins, which is a big void between DT and Met Park. Some landscaping to spruce things up is really not a bad idea though.
And what is truly disturbing, is most area politicians really do feel that there is nothing wrong with this move. I feel most of them do not even see a problem with the core aside from what the numbers show. You get rid of one clown and there seems to be a big line ready to take his place. I do feel that have some of these folks travel is a good thing. They do need to see that our core is indeed very unhealthy in comparison to most peer cities. Thanks Lake for posting this and you are absoluty right, but when will are politicians understand this?
Also- Could this money have gone to help restore the Laura Trio instead to make it more attractive to developers. I mean the amount to tear down one functional property to replace with a giant backyard kills me. Could this money have not been used for something of more importance in a district that it could impact more?
sure...they could have spent the $ on Laura St Trio...and continued to let the existing Kids Kampus rot away from lack of upkeep.
Any idea of what happened with the stuff removed from kids kampus? I wonder if salvageable equipment was relocated to other public spaces in the city.