7-Eleven: Can Convenience and Aesthetics Co-exist?
(http://photos.metrojacksonville.com/photos/1429763069_mhxL4nx-M.jpg)
With more than 40,000 stores in operation, 7-Eleven is making plans to agressively enter the Jacksonville market, including the Urban Core. A month ago, 7-Eleven's interest in the Shoppes of Avondale sparked a facebook debate on "Should convenience trump aesthetics?" Here is a new question for Jacksonville: Can convenience and aesthetics co-exist?
Full Article
http://www.metrojacksonville.com/article/2011-sep-7-eleven-can-convenience-and-aesthetics-co-exist
I've been to the Petco park location, really nice.
Still no record of any sale at the supposed Avondale location.
I have been to the one on Broadway and 12th Street. I was impressed by the cleanliness of the store and how it did blend into its surroundings. I was able to pick up a newspaper and a drink while I waited for my streetcar. There was nothing garish or tacky about the store.
My first post - a very informative site. Thank you. Photographs depict a new generation of stores. Is the supply chain improved? I wonder if their suppliers operate 18-wheelers navigating narrow neighborhood streets to service them. It is always painful to watch a large cab and trailer inch through intersections, strip branches from trees, run over storm drains, sidewalks, and landscape to reach their destinations.
These photos prove that strong community guidelines work. But....are Jacksonville's downtown codes strong enough to make it happen here?
We can't even keep stores from plastering ads all over their windows despite the pleas for worker safety and crime reduction by keeping good visual connections to the outside.
If this is the case, then the solution is to not rail against private development. It's to change land use and zoning policy at city hall. While we can't control the market, we certainly can control how private development fits into our communities and contributes to our quality of life and it costs us not a dime more than what we already pay in taxes today.
With that said, if the new administration keeps Bill Killingsworth, a part of the the mobility plan is to go back and revise land use and zoning to facilitate sustainable growth and developments that add to the quality of life of our communities.
Is there anything to say for the fact the examples don't entail a gas station component? How could that ever work on a city street corner? I think w/o they could easily co-exist in our downtown, but will ignore the chain's more recent function of a gas station, which I think a lot of people would like to see here.
There are some pretty innovative gas station designs out there as well. The key is to simply design a structure that treats all modes of mobility as equal priorities and respects the development pattern of the surrounding context. In short, the building should front and open up to the sidewalk. Auto oriented uses should be located on the side or rear of property.
Hmm... like this... ? http://milwaukeestreets.blogspot.com/2007/04/urban-gas-station.html (http://milwaukeestreets.blogspot.com/2007/04/urban-gas-station.html)
QuoteI wonder if their suppliers operate 18-wheelers navigating narrow neighborhood streets to service them
First off, welcome!
Secondly, would you be opposed to this development solely based on the fact that trucks drop off merchandise to the store? How is that any different than the Sysco truck dropping off items on Ingleside at Brick next door, or along Margaret Street for O'Brothers/Mossfire?
QuoteStill no record of any sale at the supposed Avondale location
A sales contract has been signed on the property... it is now in the due dillegence stage, as is my understanding.
This is great. I was just in Tarrytown, NY. and they had a 7-11 blend right in with the whole small town main street look. I had to point it out to the people I was with. They didn't believe me at first.
Here is a link to the google maps picture. They've actually changed the signage since then, and it's way more subtle. Actually looks like it's a boutique.
http://maps.google.com/maps?q=7-11+tarrytown+ny&ll=41.076326,-73.858294&spn=0.010158,0.026157&oe=utf-8&client=firefox-a&fb=1&gl=us&cid=0,0,10454077500883803203&z=16&vpsrc=0&layer=c&cbll=41.076254,-73.858303&panoid=4EISpLNUIYqyCnHlClKjqA&cbp=12,253.42,,0,-3.93 (http://maps.google.com/maps?q=7-11+tarrytown+ny&ll=41.076326,-73.858294&spn=0.010158,0.026157&oe=utf-8&client=firefox-a&fb=1&gl=us&cid=0,0,10454077500883803203&z=16&vpsrc=0&layer=c&cbll=41.076254,-73.858303&panoid=4EISpLNUIYqyCnHlClKjqA&cbp=12,253.42,,0,-3.93)
HA! I was just about to point out the Publix in Columbia, SC. as another example of this, but when I googled for a picture, the first and best picture that came up was a link to an article here on Metrojacksonville.
Keep up the great work.
Your point is made by your pics, Lake. Clearly 7/11 is willing to mesh its stores with their surroundings, we just need to hold them to it.
.I moved to Los Angeles, September of last year from Green Cove Springs and I have seen all 3 locations posted in Los Angeles. There are all within a 4 block radius of each other, and all of them are drenched with people. Unfortunately because they are all downtown, where in Los Angeles..the homeless tend to dwell. All locations pictured do not offer alcohol whatsoever. Surprisingly enough, all locations have been kept very clean and it's extremely convenient when you just want to grab something quick on the go. Downtown Los Angeles is very much like Downtown Jacksonville. A city with such beauty, but a horrible central business district!
Quote from: SarahTay on September 02, 2011, 10:21:03 AM
Hmm... like this... ? http://milwaukeestreets.blogspot.com/2007/04/urban-gas-station.html (http://milwaukeestreets.blogspot.com/2007/04/urban-gas-station.html)
Or the one on E Colonial Drive in Orlando just east of I-4. It's got a 'fake' wall fronting the street with 'windows' through which you can see the usual gas pump islands.
None of those pictures looks even remotely like the quiant setting of The Shoppes of Avondale.
I walked from my home up and around that location tonight and thought as I walked past that corner lot, "This will not improve the Shoppes. That is such a special area in the Historic neighborhood. This is
not an improvement."
Sorry that's my humble opinion.
So you're saying that its impossible to make a 7-Eleven look like and address the sidewalk like The Brick? If I had the time and energy, I'd play around with some exterior examples in photoshop. From an architectural standpoint, they both would have some sort of exterior skin (brick perhaps?), windows, signage, an entrance and outdoor seating. We as a community have complete control over what these things can look like.
The Parker's in Savannah -- http://parkers19.com/ (http://parkers19.com/) - Would be a great addition to the Shoppes.
It was said in the other thread on this subject.
There is a myriad of hot foods, great wine selection, and gifts that you wouldn't see in a normal convenience store.
I really think the model would thrive and add to the neighborhood, if that's how 7-11 does it.
Anyone who has been into the Parker's there on Drayton would agree imo.
Sure a fountain would be great and aesthetically pleasing, but why does that owner have to sacrifice his property for what a few consider the greater good?
If the proposed development isn't what the neighborhood wants., why not all of the other Shoppes owners, and concerned neighbors help RAP purchase the property and let the neighborhood decide what goes there?
Here are some chain stores with Avondale curb appeal.
(http://media.povo.com/D/3252/1/3/8/533x400/7_Eleven-_Charles)
(http://farmingtonhillsrealestatehomes.com/image_store/uploads/7/0/8/9/8/ar124901011489807.jpg)
I hope they build the most appropriate structure they can there. I hope it is beautiful and "connects" from 'town to The Brick. I am not opposed to development of that lot, I just wish it was not a 7-11.
I remain hopeful that I will be impressed and glad that it gets done quickly and by a local builder/contractor who has a great reputation. One thing is for sure, in a year or two we will know.
I think we all would prefer a perfect little bodega with some convenience items.
all manner of viable influences have been flung towards RAP and rejected over the decades.
it's not about "modern 7 11" but rather more about us.
Now if a new age Avondale Seven 'leven will somehow boost property values I would be all in favor....it is apparent we are going to have to get all we can get in order to sell and move to preferred better place.
Quote from: thelakelander on September 02, 2011, 09:43:53 PM
So you're saying that its impossible to make a 7-Eleven look like and address the sidewalk like The Brick? If I had the time and energy, I'd play around with ......
Lake,you have your affections,hands on the pulse of too many subjects.
Leave this corner of Duval County alone please.
Quote from: JeffreyS on September 02, 2011, 10:06:49 PM
I think we all would prefer a perfect little bodega with some convenience items.
If only the former owners of the Convenience store two addresses down (present day Prudential Reality,past pet store)had known of the winning business plan
I am not proposing that NM my point was more that your don't always get your absolute first choice. I guess I should have referenced some of my earlier posts to make it clear.
Quote from: north miami on September 02, 2011, 10:35:12 PM
Lake,you have your affections,hands on the pulse of too many subjects.
Leave this corner of Duval County alone please.
lol, my passion for Jacksonville is too deep now to just stand quietly on the sidelines.
Quoteit's not about "modern 7 11" but rather more about us.
This is what I'm trying to point out here. It is about us....and what we have control over. 7-Eleven is only being used as an opportunity to make a point. We as residents and the city don't control the market. However, we do have 100% control over how private development is built, designed and layed out within our municipal boundaries. I hope for the day that we can recognize this as a whole and address ALL projects with a holistic approach. If we applied half the energy we put in fighting things we can't control in modifying and enforcing policy, Jacksonville would be on another economic tier by now.
If a development is not what the neighbourhood wants, then the development code should be changed to reflect the community's desires. Of course, then the community has to ensure that weak-kneed politicians so not try to over-ride adopted community plans.
Urban real-estate comes with restrictions (zoning codes) and opportunities (concentrated consumer bases). Owners know what they are getting when they buy a property. Communities do not have to buy out unhappy owners, just educate them on the possibilities their property offers.
We have an excellent example here in San Diego of a new, Von's supermarket finally under construction after 20-years of corporate attempts to bypass the Uptown Community Plan's urban design guidelines. The company wanted a supermarket surrounded by a parking lot and a 150 foot loading dock fronting Washington Street (a reviving pedestrian corridor). They finally saw that the community was not going to budge, and now a large, modern market with enclosed parking and a line of new shop spaces along Washington Street is under construction and scheduled to open in early 2012. The lesson is to formulate your community plan and stick to it.
California communities typically exhibit that certain something difference,outlook and empowerment.
Why can't Jax? Why must we as residents continue to accept the minimum?
.because Jacksonville will and always will be a GOP city...a big "ole" elephant!! Lazy, really large, and scared of something so little
Quote from: thelakelander on September 02, 2011, 09:43:53 PM
So you're saying that its impossible to make a 7-Eleven look like and address the sidewalk like The Brick? If I had the time and energy, I'd play around with some exterior examples in photoshop. From an architectural standpoint, they both would have some sort of exterior skin (brick perhaps?), windows, signage, an entrance and outdoor seating. We as a community have complete control over what these things can look like.
Lake, I do not understand your last sentence. Just how does the community "have complete control over what these things can look like."? When there are so many examples of this not being the case here in Jacksonville. As long as the developer meets the zoning code, they can do what they want. As an example example - the poker room in the old Garden Ridge on Monument. The owner has said they will work with the community on the exterior, but they have the zoning, they are only doing it because they want to be good neighbors. Actually, so far, they are just promising to work with the community, the actual cooperation has not begun yet. It remains to be seen how much they actually do use community input. If they
really listened to community input, they would abandon the site - a lot of folks don't want a gambling house there.
We control zoning. If we don't like our City's zoning requirements, we should work to change them.
Quote from: GayLA on September 03, 2011, 12:58:09 AM
.because Jacksonville will and always will be a GOP city...a big "ole" elephant!! Lazy, really large, and scared of something so little
Wrong more democrats here than GOP and the Dems have become more engaged lately. It is a pretty mixed bag that in the past has been dominated by conservatives. When put to a vote we decided we were a fairly progressive city by passing the better Jacksonville plan. More taxes for QOL improvements.
Quote from: thelakelander on September 02, 2011, 11:33:55 PM
Why can't Jax? Why must we as residents continue to accept the minimum?
It is about the public.Propensity.
I have seen that critical,empowering certain something exhibited in California,Denver/Beltway Northwest quadrant,Alachua County Florida,Lake Asbury Clay County.
Common theme is long established leanings towards stewardship and somehow a process,energy that builds a high level of function.
Some areas simply commit to less "potential".
During the past twenty years or so there were discussions among the Conservationist community to the effect that Northeast Florida,Duval population growth would certainly interject that certain new blood,outlook.
I have witnessed outmigration from neighborhoods,sectors,regions by discerning citizens in the face of undesired pending change.The effect being the areas left behind loose The Stewards,newcomers not as discerning,involved,and unaware or unconcerned with the change,tone and feel.
Quote from: fieldafm on September 02, 2011, 10:28:18 AM
QuoteI wonder if their suppliers operate 18-wheelers navigating narrow neighborhood streets to service them
... would you be opposed to this development solely based on the fact that trucks drop off merchandise to the store? How is that any different than the Sysco truck dropping off items on Ingleside at Brick next door, or along Margaret Street for O'Brothers/Mossfire?
It seems to me the basis for/against the 7-11 is more complex (which isn't the question I posed :)). Safe to say some businesses call upon more city services than other community residents.
I was born and raised in Michigan and 7-Eleven's are all over the place. Know for their BIG GULP sodas and SLURPPEES (way better than a sno-cone)...I personally have no complaints about them coming to JAX, I think it would be great. However when I got to JAX I was bummed out that the closest one was in Daytona and I wasnt driving that far for a Slurpee...
Can you provide pics of great 7-11 designs that include gas stations?
How abouty this....shows how a gas station/convenience store can be designed to address the street context....and this is nothing special!
http://www.metrojacksonville.com/article/2010-apr-downtown-gas-station-plans-revised
Quote from: sidewalker on September 05, 2011, 10:10:06 PM
Quote from: fieldafm on September 02, 2011, 10:28:18 AM
QuoteI wonder if their suppliers operate 18-wheelers navigating narrow neighborhood streets to service them
... would you be opposed to this development solely based on the fact that trucks drop off merchandise to the store? How is that any different than the Sysco truck dropping off items on Ingleside at Brick next door, or along Margaret Street for O'Brothers/Mossfire?
It seems to me the basis for/against the 7-11 is more complex (which isn't the question I posed :)). Safe to say some businesses call upon more city services than other community residents.
Well then I guess I completely missed your point. You seem to be concerned about how re-supplying the store will impact the surrounding neighborhood. What is it then you are trying to ask?
Quote from: Kay on September 06, 2011, 07:48:54 AM
Can you provide pics of great 7-11 designs that include gas stations?
Just from a quick 5 minute google search....
(http://www.flickr.com/photos/rllayman/247403266/)
(http://i55.photobucket.com/albums/g130/bzorch/barcelona_gas_station1.jpg)
Here is one in nearby Orlando:
(http://i55.photobucket.com/albums/g130/bzorch/orlando_gas_station1.jpg)
(http://photos1.blogger.com/img/102/2411/320/standardoil.jpg)
(http://www.curatorofshit.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/05/spanish-colonial-gas-)
(http://www.curatorofshit.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/05/spanish-colonial-filling-station.jpg)
(http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_uxksHLXhZg0/TMGeFoJo8gI/AAAAAAAAAWc/W4ZhrRQt1as/s1600/Gas+Station+with+Liner+Building+Added+to+Corner.jpg)
(http://www.rochestersubway.com/images/photos/milwaukee_new_urban_gas_station.jpg)
(http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3029/2513081621_d3190ba98f.jpg)
(http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_-LvpBoDIt4Q/TLcD_JUZTTI/AAAAAAAAIwk/8MzCeHniveE/s1600/Gas+station+in+sidewalk3.JPG)
Here's a good link:
http://forum.skyscraperpage.com/showthread.php?t=175122 (http://forum.skyscraperpage.com/showthread.php?t=175122)
Here is another good example:
Somewhere in Milwaukee. Corner location with pumps located behind convenience store building facing the main street.
(http://www.cyburbia.org/gallery/data/507/medium/DSCN5273.JPG)
http://www.cyburbia.org/forums/showthread.php?t=26300
Btw, Milwaukee would be a great peer city to study their land use and zoning code. They have a few good examples, which suggest the city must be requiring gas stations to laid out a certain way on urban properties.
This is just a sketch, but a good illustration of how to improve an existing suburban station.
(http://img641.imageshack.us/img641/9932/reburbiasprawlrepair3.jpg)
http://www.simtropolis.com/forum/files/file/24240-suburban-series-gas-station-design/
It would be pretty easy to mix the concepts shown above into the Orlando 7-Eleven example (DT Orlando, corner of Colonial & Magnolia) that Field posted.
(http://i55.photobucket.com/albums/g130/bzorch/orlando_gas_station1.jpg)
As shown in the images above, simply build the convenience store section at the street corner and extend sculptural walls along the sidewalks to stop the pump area from breaking up the urban street edge. If the Orlando example had done this, the street corner would be an active storefront instead of blank stucco wall.
Also, Ottawa, CA has an urban design guidelines manual for gas stations:
http://ottawa.ca/calendar/ottawa/citycouncil/occ/2006/05-24/pec/Gas%20Stations%20_May_small.pdf#search=%22ottawa%20%22urban%20design%22%20canopy%22
(http://photos.metrojacksonville.com/photos/459272151_QTJ3b-M.jpg)
This last one wouldn't be suitable for any of our historic neighborhoods, but it was interesting to see. Its a mixed use project near DC's Dupont Circle that features an Exxon gas station with a green roof at street level. Here, the entire neighborhood is highly urban, but the gas station would fit better into its context if it at least had an Orlando style structural wall on the corner.