I have never been there, but I think this is terrible. I believe our City Council is losing their minds.
http://www.news4jax.com/news/29016982/detail.html
Lol, all for $200k in savings? They could immediately save over $800k by simply not rebuilding Monroe Street in front of the courthouse.
This is the silliest thing I've ever heard.
Hey, the baseball grounds aren't making as money as they could if the Suns advertised better. Let's not work with them on that, just close down the park.
And you know what's a big money loser? Sewers and drainage. Shut them down.
I hear we're spending millions on beach renourishment projects every decade or so. We could save a ton of money by just locking the beach up.
Sheesh.
Well I pose this question. What purpose has the Equestrain Center served since it has been there? I have never been there, nor do I ever here of anything being hosted there? I may sound crazy, but what is it exactly? I may sound Naive. Somebody school me please :)
Actully this reminds me of the thread about the median enhancements.
The city agreed, assumed, understood with another agency that if they built it, someone would come in a maintain it. Yet, all of these jobs seem to be without takers.
I'm all for agreeing on a job with a nod and a handshake, but shouldn't a municipality have a something a little more substantial, you know, like a contract before starting all of these projects.
$25M to build, $400k/yr O&M - Let's shut it down to save $200k/yr. Really? How much are you going to put in it to bring the building back to snuff after 3-4 years of decay? I say a lot more than the $800k you saved by keeping it occupied.
On a side note, maybe someone should go back through the contract and really find out who's on the hook for the maintenance. Or maybe they could really push for a public/private and find a way to get an organization into the building.
Quote from: fsujax on August 29, 2011, 03:36:51 PM
I have never been there, but I think this is terrible. I believe our City Council is losing their minds.
http://www.news4jax.com/news/29016982/detail.html
came up last year too...as long as we're having budget problems, it will come up every year (like the skyway)
Here's an archive from the TU with background info on the center:
http://jacksonville.com/tu-online/stories/072104/met_16150777.shtml (http://jacksonville.com/tu-online/stories/072104/met_16150777.shtml)
QuotePublished Wednesday, July 21, 2004
Jacksonville center to host Equestrian Celebration
By MARY KELLI PALKA
The Times-Union,
Jacksonville-area horse lovers are hoping a fall entertainment event at the new Jacksonville Equestrian Center will bring in enough money to upgrade the center while also raising awareness of the Northeast Florida horse industry.
The first Florida Equestrian Celebration will be held Nov. 20-21 at the center, on Normandy Boulevard. In addition to clinics about horses and horse training, the weekend's events include demonstrations and a concert featuring country music star Chris LeDoux.
Mayor John Peyton listens to the announcement Tuesday of the inaugural Florida Equestrian Celebration scheduled for November at the Jacksonville Equestrian Center. RICK WILSON/The Times-Union
Organizers hope the celebration will become an annual event. It benefits the Northeast Florida Equestrian Society, which is raising money for upgrades to the city equestrian center.
Henry H. Graham Jr., who started the non-profit Florida Equestrian Celebration, said if there's no net profit, the group will still consider making a contribution to the society.
Alberta Hipps of the equestrian society said proceeds will go toward new barns. The city has built the first permanent barn and plans to convert a couple of temporary barns into permanent ones. Center Director Lesa Williams said the center has been popular already and has had to turn down larger events because there wasn't enough capacity in the barns or enough parking.
Private donations were supposed to pay for additional barns and other features at the center. So far, those donations have reached about $800,000, Hipps said.
Mayor John Peyton, who was on hand for the announcement of the November event, said he thinks the equestrian center "will be an example of a very successful public-private partnership."
The Jacksonville Equestrian Center and accompanying recreational center cost $32.4 million to design and build. Of that, about $29 million came from a voter-approved tax funding the Better Jacksonville Plan and the remainder from other city funds.
Quote from: stephendare on August 29, 2011, 04:10:11 PM
pretty major horse shows, and about the best damn public swimming pool in the entire county. The JTA unfortunately doesnt see fit to run a bus within two miles of this public facility which is pretty much out in the deep westside----so the public doesnt get to use it very much.
I know I would spend a hella lot of time there if there was anyway to get there without a car.
You realize, of course, that this obligates a reposting of your Death Race bus adventure.
Quote from: Wacca Pilatka on August 29, 2011, 04:58:00 PM
Quote from: stephendare on August 29, 2011, 04:10:11 PM
pretty major horse shows, and about the best damn public swimming pool in the entire county. The JTA unfortunately doesnt see fit to run a bus within two miles of this public facility which is pretty much out in the deep westside----so the public doesnt get to use it very much.
I know I would spend a hella lot of time there if there was anyway to get there without a car.
You realize, of course, that this obligates a reposting of your Death Race bus adventure.
I was *JUST* about to suggest that as well!
Quote from: stephendare on August 29, 2011, 04:10:11 PM
Quote from: duvaldude08 on August 29, 2011, 04:06:17 PM
Well I pose this question. What purpose has the Equestrain Center served since it has been there? I have never been there, nor do I ever here of anything being hosted there? I may sound crazy, but what is it exactly? I may sound Naive. Somebody school me please :)
pretty major horse shows, and about the best damn public swimming pool in the entire county. The JTA unfortunately doesnt see fit to run a bus within two miles of this public facility which is pretty much out in the deep westside----so the public doesnt get to use it very much.
I know I would spend a hella lot of time there if there was anyway to get there without a car.
It was a very bright idea to have it out in the middle of no where. This is something that definately should have been in the urban core. Oh well. But thanks for the info stephen
Here's the map of the facility:
http://www.jaxevents.com/events/jec/EquesAreaPlan.pdf
Most of the facility space is barns and arenas, plus a very large area for the horse trailers, not to mention an rv lot, and regular parking. It's pretty well placed in the more rural area where it is than it would be downtown.
The only problem with the center, such as it is, is that the previous city government never prioritized establishing the public-private partnership so that it could achieve its full potential. But even still, the maintenance costs were built into the budget before ground even broke. It's not like this is an out-of-the-blue expense. And now they're saying "it hasn't reached its full potential, let's shut it down completely". Just silly.
Wonder if Littlepage will leap to the defense of where his wife works?
Quote from: duvaldude08 on August 29, 2011, 05:33:45 PM
It was a very bright idea to have it out in the middle of no where. This is something that definately should have been in the urban core. Oh well. But thanks for the info stephen
yes....because a horse park fits so well in the urban core
From the article, it sounds like they're just talking about closing the actual equestrian center part, not the pool. I don't imagine they'd close the pool/rec center part, isn't it used for a lot of competition stuff? I've been there several times and it stays pretty busy, even at $1/person or whatever they charge now, I don't think it would lose that much money- it seems to usually be staffed by kids that I'm guessing aren't paid and are getting their community service credits for school or whatever.
I'm having a hard time feeling real bad about the actual equestrian center though, I think the equestrian community should've been more active in helping to fund it- having a horse isn't like having a dog or cat, it's very deliberate and costly and honestly kinda exclusive thing, if they weren't willing to support it financially, I'd rather see the money maybe used for school sports or something more people can take advantage of.
Building it near the sports and entertainment would have made more sense. Then there is the part where the value engineered the HVAC out. Now they makes a ton of sense in Florida!
Quote from: duvaldude08 on August 29, 2011, 05:33:45 PM
Quote from: stephendare on August 29, 2011, 04:10:11 PM
Quote from: duvaldude08 on August 29, 2011, 04:06:17 PM
Well I pose this question. What purpose has the Equestrain Center served since it has been there? I have never been there, nor do I ever here of anything being hosted there? I may sound crazy, but what is it exactly? I may sound Naive. Somebody school me please :)
pretty major horse shows, and about the best damn public swimming pool in the entire county. The JTA unfortunately doesnt see fit to run a bus within two miles of this public facility which is pretty much out in the deep westside----so the public doesnt get to use it very much.
I know I would spend a hella lot of time there if there was anyway to get there without a car.
It was a very bright idea to have it out in the middle of no where. This is something that definately should have been in the urban core. Oh well. But thanks for the info stephen
Why do you think horse trails should be in the urban core of Jacksonville?
Quote from: DuvalHusky on August 29, 2011, 10:11:02 PM
Building it near the sports and entertainment would have made more sense. Then there is the part where the value engineered the HVAC out. Now they makes a ton of sense in Florida!
Don't believe I've ever seen an airconditioned horse barn or horse arena. The animal barns at the Duval and Clay Fairgrounds are not airconditioned. Maybe Medevil Knights in Central Florida but not in the real world.
Quote from: Overstreet on August 29, 2011, 10:56:41 PM
Quote from: duvaldude08 on August 29, 2011, 05:33:45 PM
Quote from: stephendare on August 29, 2011, 04:10:11 PM
Quote from: duvaldude08 on August 29, 2011, 04:06:17 PM
Well I pose this question. What purpose has the Equestrain Center served since it has been there? I have never been there, nor do I ever here of anything being hosted there? I may sound crazy, but what is it exactly? I may sound Naive. Somebody school me please :)
pretty major horse shows, and about the best damn public swimming pool in the entire county. The JTA unfortunately doesnt see fit to run a bus within two miles of this public facility which is pretty much out in the deep westside----so the public doesnt get to use it very much.
I know I would spend a hella lot of time there if there was anyway to get there without a car.
It was a very bright idea to have it out in the middle of no where. This is something that definately should have been in the urban core. Oh well. But thanks for the info stephen
Why do you think horse trails should be in the urban core of Jacksonville?
I have never been to the center, so I have no idea how it is set up. It was just a thought.
I am not a horse person to be sure. However spectators like HVAC in the dead of summer for equestrian and concerts (yes, concerts). The lack of HVAC has been sighted for the difficulties in booking the venue.
As for trails, the EQ Center has seating for thousands and was intended to be a regional center for equestrian activities. This is tough to do when your rival facilities offer better, climate controlled amenities.
Trails for horses have little to nothing to do with the EQ center and hosting events.
Quote from: DuvalHusky on August 29, 2011, 11:41:15 PM
I am not a horse person to be sure. However spectators like HVAC in the dead of summer for equestrian and concerts (yes, concerts). The lack of HVAC has been sighted for the difficulties in booking the venue.
As for trails, the EQ Center has seating for thousands and was intended to be a regional center for equestrian activities. This is tough to do when your rival facilities offer better, climate controlled amenities.
I don't know much about competing equestrian centers, but if this is the case, it's another example of Jacksonville doing something half-assed, expressing surprise when the facility is underused, then trying to close it to save a few bucks.
Also along the lines of the community median and landscaping improvements. Put it in but don't think about what it's going to cost to maintain.
How could they close such a huge property...sounds like jax though...pour huge amounts of cash into something and then just because things are'nt perfect they close it down...i say we dismantle the jaguar stadium...why not..they rarely win anything...so...lets just close them down and tear down the stadium...
The Cecil Field complex is comprised of thousands of acres of undeveloped woodland,much of it slated to remain so,managed by the Division of Forestry.Cecil Field open space,trails contiguous to Jennings State Forest,Northeast Florida Timberland Reserve and therefore Osceola National Forest/Camp Blanding/OcalaNational
Forest Corridor.(O2O)
Not within 'urban core',certainly our " Green Hedge".
This is an outstanding lifestyle,promotional feature for Jacksonville
A key need for the Center has long passed-a hotdog on a stick to garner Better Jacksonville support.
Quote from: DuvalHusky on August 29, 2011, 10:11:02 PM
Building it near the sports and entertainment would have made more sense. Then there is the part where the value engineered the HVAC out. Now they makes a ton of sense in Florida!
The center is too large to fit in the stadium district. It wouldn't fit in the fairgrounds area even if you demolished the parking garage adjacent to the arena and the Jaguars practice field. As for the HVAC, I believe they hold most of the actual horse shows and events during the spring and fall rather than the middle of summer. The center is a great asset to Jacksonville. I swim at the pool quite often and it is a great facility. It would be a shame to see them close the Equestrian Center.
The equestrian center fits great for where it is. It's in close proximity to an area of the state where horse farms are prevelent and has access to major highways. Moving it to the urban core is like saying that we should start the Kingfish Tournament at the marina adjacent to River City Brewing Company.
I for one think the best thing the city can do is let the Agricultural Fair takeover the space. They do a much better job at marketing events than SMG has done booking shows at the Equestrian Center.
I believe they would have that place humming in no time.
QuoteThe center is a great asset to Jacksonville.
I
100% agree.
A couple of things about the equestrian center:
First, the center has both an Equestrian Center and a Recreation Complex including the pool facility. The council is only talking about shuttering the Equestrian Center.
Second, the plan was not just to build an equestrian center somewhere, it was always to build it out there. It was either there, or it wasn't getting built with by the Better Jacksonville Plan. A huge facility featuring horse arenas, barns, and trailer parking is better suited in a more rural area than it would be in an urban setting. And this isn't really in the middle of nowhere considering what it is, as Field says.
Third, the the city budgeted for the maintenance costs when planning the center, as they did for all public buildings at the time. Additionally, the Northeast Florida Equestrian Society was supposed to raise $5 million to add the barns and other facilities as part of Phase 1. They never came up with the money, and the previous administration never prioritized working a public-private partnership to cover it. They ended up building the barns themselves out of the city's budget. Additionally, they reallocated the maintenance money and other reserves to other things.
Fourth, the council's complaint is NOT that the Equestrian Center is underused (it's not). It's that the city is spending too much annually to keep it open. A fair point in this economy, but it ignores the fact that this situation was and is avoidable.
Which is why I ask again: Why does there never seem to be any wording in the contracts requiring these 'outside' companies to commit? How is it that the city is always left on the hook?
I'm referring to what I've read here about the Eq Center and the various Median Upgrades.
Well, it wasn't intended to come all from one place, and it wasn't a company, was the Equestrian Society. They've just really dropped the ball, and the administration didn't do anything to see that the slack was picked up (beyond contributing more of the city's own money). And of course they made it worse for themselves in moving the maintenance money.
Is the space used by the public schools at all? Are there horse programs at any of the school?...if it's city property should'nt it be used as much as possible?...personally i feel every school should have an AG program and this property is perfect.
Quote from: Tacachale on August 30, 2011, 09:19:05 AM
Second, the plan was not just to build an equestrian center somewhere, it was always to build it out there. It was either there, or it wasn't getting built with by the Better Jacksonville Plan. A huge facility featuring horse arenas, barns, and trailer parking is better suited in a more rural area than it would be in an urban setting. And this isn't really in the middle of nowhere considering what it is, as Field says.
That's make sense. But what doesnt is how they expected anyone to get all the way there? Jacksonville is HUGE. Does JTA even run anywhere near the center? (is it walking distance from a bus stop atleast)
Quote from: tufsu1 on August 29, 2011, 09:50:22 PM
Quote from: duvaldude08 on August 29, 2011, 05:33:45 PM
It was a very bright idea to have it out in the middle of no where. This is something that definately should have been in the urban core. Oh well. But thanks for the info stephen
yes....because a horse park fits so well in the urban core
There is as much open grazing land downtown at the moment as about any other place in the city that I can think of.
Maybe we need a few herd of cattle down there, it would keep the weeds down.
***** Cows in the Core *****
;D
I don't think we could rival Pamplona's running of the bulls, but at least it would give JSO something to do....
http://www.youtube.com/v/rV85vYnDdkI?
Quote from: duvaldude08 on August 30, 2011, 10:46:07 AM
Quote from: Tacachale on August 30, 2011, 09:19:05 AM
Second, the plan was not just to build an equestrian center somewhere, it was always to build it out there. It was either there, or it wasn't getting built with by the Better Jacksonville Plan. A huge facility featuring horse arenas, barns, and trailer parking is better suited in a more rural area than it would be in an urban setting. And this isn't really in the middle of nowhere considering what it is, as Field says.
That's make sense. But what doesnt is how they expected anyone to get all the way there? Jacksonville is HUGE. Does JTA even run anywhere near the center? (is it walking distance from a bus stop atleast)
and just how many horse riders do you think are JTA patrons?
Crescimbeni is about to introduce legislation which will force the city to have a private maintence agreement in place before money is released on such projects.
I like him. The fact that he has a moustache that rivals Magnum P.I. and answers his OWN phone when you call him makes me like him even more.