Learned today that 7-11 wants to rent the space currently occupied by the Magnificat Cafe, on the corner of Laura St. across the street from the Main Library, facing Hemming Plaza. They want to put an "urban 7-11" there.
The Cafe's lease is up and the owner doesn't know if he can meet the rent offered by 7-11. 7-11 is a Japanese company that has lots of money and is obviously expanding by opening new stores.
Do we need another convenience store downtown? Would there be a better location for a 7-11 downtown?
11E location. where the old Starbucks used to be! better visibility.
I doubt 7-11 would consider this if it didn't think it could be successful downtown. Having another business downtown is certainly not a bad thing. It would be preferable if they'd take a currently unoccupied space rather than push out an existing business, but I don't know the Magnificat's situation.
Quote from: Dog Walker on August 10, 2011, 03:27:17 PM
Do we need another convenience store downtown? Would there be a better location for a 7-11 downtown?
well realistically the only other one is Scotty's (unless you count the Shell station)....and 7-11 works more like a Gate store....many have food, whcih would work well for downtown workers and visitors to the library
Why push out a successful small business owner (serving food to downtown workers) to put in a 7-11?
7-11 has also made an offer the the Firefighter's Union for the old church they own on the corner of Rosselle and Stockton Streets in Riverside. They want to tear down all of the buildings on that property and put in a really big 7-11. That location is directly across the street from the Gate station on Stockton.
The building is listed as a contributing building to the Riverside/Avondale Historic District so they might have an uphill fight to tear it down. Evidently they have made a really top dollar offer to the Union which has some pull in the City Council.
7-11 is taking the Jacksonville market very seriously, it seems.
I'd love a 7-11 in DT. Scottie Stores doesn't offer much selection. BTW, I'm about to go visit a new store in DT LA to take some pics to share with MJ.
Quote7-11 has also made an offer the the Firefighter's Union for the old church they own on the corner of Rosselle and Stockton Streets in Riverside. They want to tear down all of the buildings on that property and put in a really big 7-11. That location is directly across the street from the Gate station on Stockton.
The building is listed as a contributing building to the Riverside/Avondale Historic District so they might have an uphill fight to tear it down. Evidently they have made a really top dollar offer to the Union which has some pull in the City Council.
I understand that they have purchased the Avondale land as of Monday and are working with the Fireman's Union which is VERY willing to sell. You're right, it seems as though getting the ok to get that building demo'd through council is going to be an easy sell.
I think they are going to have a fight on their hands in order to demo that building, especially since there is a Gate convenience store directly across the street. They will have a problem trying to justify a need for their store in the area when it involves the demolition of a contributing building.
I am not anti 7-11 but I do want to see RAP make sure they operate up to the standards that have been so successful for riverside.
They should put one in San Marco too. Man if they build east san marco with a urban 7-11 that would be awesome.
How large is the old church building? I wonder if they'd be willing to open a store within the sanctuary instead of demolishing it? Also, send them to Springfield. There's lot of vacant property on Main.
^Which building is the church building? It's not one that can be moved, is it?
Quote from: thelakelander on August 11, 2011, 10:59:51 AM
How large is the old church building? I wonder if they'd be willing to open a store within the sanctuary instead of demolishing it? Also, send them to Springfield. There's lot of vacant property on Main.
It's very big.
They want that location to be a typical suburban-style gas station.
That's actually quite a good spot for them to do it to be 100% honest. BUT, tearing down that old church is not something I am in favor of at all.
RAP and the HPC is going to fight that tooth and nail, but the reality is Council is going to have a much different opinion on the matter.
Quote from: Tacachale on August 11, 2011, 11:00:50 AM
^Which building is the church building? It's not one that can be moved, is it?
There are actually a couple of buildings on the property. The old church, which is raised over a half basement and could not be converted and a new, brick meeting hall behind it which is not a contributing building. The church building is the one closest to the streets. There is also an attached Sunday school building that looks as if it was built at the same time as the church.
Any building can be moved, but I don't think that one could be done economically.
It has been neglected by the union and is looking rundown, but has some unique architectural elements to it. It looks as if was a pretty grand church in its day.
If 7 Eleven goes in the Magnificat space, any idea where Magnificat will go?
Quote from: thelakelander on August 11, 2011, 10:59:51 AM
I wonder if they'd be willing to open a store within the sanctuary instead of demolishing it?
+1
That would be very cool, and I'm sure would earn the goodwill of RAP. I for one would hate to see that old church torn down to build a future convenience store/gas station or anything really--once it's gone, it's gone forever. What the hell, why not just tear down the old fire station tower too while they're at it?
I'd much rather see that BP or Gate gas station bought out and replaced with a 7-Eleven.
I'm actually looking forward to patronizing 7-Eleven if and when they come back to Jacksonville, but if they mess up and replace contributing structures in the historic district, they're really going to piss off a lot of people. It's not like there isn't ANY off-ramp stucco strip mall (in soothing "Jax Beige") real estate available in town.
Quote from: Wacca Pilatka on August 11, 2011, 12:31:09 PM
If 7 Eleven goes in the Magnificat space, any idea where Magnificat will go?
Probably out of business. It's a thin-profit family operation. They actually sold their house eight years ago and rented it back to raise the capital to open the Cafe. Moving a restaurant is expensive and moving it too far away would mean building up the clientele all over again.
From the tone of the original posts in this thread, it appears they won't be around long regardless of what 7-11 decides to do.
What a shame to see a nice place like that go. Here I was excited about a net addition of businesses to downtown.
Quote from: thelakelander on August 11, 2011, 02:49:51 PM
From the tone of the original posts in this thread, it appears they won't be around long regardless of what 7-11 decides to do.
???????
You said his lease is up. That would mean what happens at this point is totally up to the property owner and not the business. If he does have to go, the JEDC, DVI, etc. should help them find another location, imo.
I wonder if the old coffee shop space in the library would be suitable. The Cafe needs a full kitchen. Did the coffee shop have space for one?
Quote from: Dog Walker on August 11, 2011, 05:05:04 PM
I wonder if the old coffee shop space in the library would be suitable. The Cafe needs a full kitchen. Did the coffee shop have space for one?
That is quite possibly one of the worst locations in downtown(the old Shelbys). Hundreds of people walk past it every day but no one knows it's in there.
Downtown is about to get TWO more really good signings.
The deals that are being offered now are a VERY good thing for small business and downtown in general. Expectation of rent is finally in line with a reasonable market rate.
I agree. I wonder how difficult would it be for the city to allow signage and a full separate entrance for the old Shelby's spot?
Quote from: fieldafm on August 11, 2011, 05:09:21 PM
Downtown is about to get TWO more really good signings.
The deals that are being offered now are a VERY good thing for small business and downtown in general. Expectation of rent is finally in line with a reasonable market rate.
Is this one? http://jacksonville.com/entertainment/food-and-dining/2011-08-11/story/fionn-maccools-open-jacksonville-landing
My prayers have been answered. I hope it's like the 7-11s back home where they sell donuts!
I'm going to re-sign my lease for another year.
Hello Slurpee my old friend.
Quote from: thelakelander on August 11, 2011, 05:28:44 PM
I agree. I wonder how difficult would it be for the city to allow signage and a full separate entrance for the old Shelby's spot?
the library could not even figure out the security/alarm issue...which would allow the business to be open at different times than the library
Quote from: John P on August 11, 2011, 05:57:04 PM
Quote from: fieldafm on August 11, 2011, 05:09:21 PM
Downtown is about to get TWO more really good signings.
The deals that are being offered now are a VERY good thing for small business and downtown in general. Expectation of rent is finally in line with a reasonable market rate.
Is this one? http://jacksonville.com/entertainment/food-and-dining/2011-08-11/story/fionn-maccools-open-jacksonville-landing
yep...that's the one I had heard rumored....of course, I guess this negates the Irish pub that supposedly going in last year in the old Twisted Martini space
To have an existing business such as Magnificate forced to endure a very expensive move is very unfortunate, and could cause its demise. They have always had excellent food for the lunch crowd, with a nice ambiance. I hope that 7-11 can find a location other than the corner of Laura and Monroe. What if 7-11 leased one of the spaces in the Elk's building? We need net additions to the businesses in downtown, not harmful disruptions to existing businesses.
I've wondered about the nature of the 7-11 concept; that is, its ultimate impact in the downtown area. Would having a 7-11 provide, over the long run,a net positive or a net negative for the downtown area? Do we need these mini-Walmarts covering all product areas in a mediocre way, or do we ultimately want the downtown consumer needs to be filled by full blown retail shops providing excellence for our downtown consumers?
It reminds me of the Walmart concept, but on a smaller scale. In other words, would the 7-11 store result ultimately in slowing the natural process of encouraging other retail opening; the types that cover consumer needs perhaps better, but only in limited product areas. For example, someone mentioned earlier the idea of wishing for donuts within any new 7-11. Would the fact of having donuts in the 7-11 ultimately slow down or prevent the entry of a full blown donut shop in the core area? This idea could be said for the sandwiches offered by 7-11.
It seems better to have several full blown retail operations downtown, excelling in their specialization, than to have something like a 7-11, which offers a broad range of items, and of less quality; and this, simply because 7-11 cannot afford the space, nor the expertise to achieve excellence in all the products it has; an excellence that can be achieved by businesses dedicated to only one, or just several products.
I would rather have a full blown donut shop, providing excellence, than to have mediocre donuts supplied by a segment of a 7-11. I would rather have a quality sandwich shop, than to have mediocre sandwiches shelved in a 7-11. Although I don't smoke, I would rather have a full blown tobacco / pipe shop in the core, than to have several such items in a 7-11. I would rather have a full blown package / lounge, selling a large spectrum of the evil alcohol, than to have a 7-11 selling only beer to go.
Would a successful 7-11, operating in our city center, retard by subtle pressures, the future openings of other retail businesses?
Ron, you make some good points. But it's not like that donut store, sandwich place, smoke shop, or liquor store are in the offing. Downtown's dance card is empty at present. If the lady won't dance with a respectable suitor like 7-11, she may not get to dance at all.
The 7-11s in DT San Diego and Orlando have not hampered their redevelopment. Judging from our peer cities, I'd say there's room for anyone willing to offer a quality product and service (although it would be nice to have an entity help with location selection). Let's add some mobile food trucks while we're at it.
+++++ MOBILE FOOD TRUCKS!!
Quote from: John P on August 11, 2011, 05:57:04 PM
Quote from: fieldafm on August 11, 2011, 05:09:21 PM
Downtown is about to get TWO more really good signings.
The deals that are being offered now are a VERY good thing for small business and downtown in general. Expectation of rent is finally in line with a reasonable market rate.
Is this one? http://jacksonville.com/entertainment/food-and-dining/2011-08-11/story/fionn-maccools-open-jacksonville-landing
Nope, that deal was signed two weeks ago.
These two potential deals are new.
I have repeated it often the last few months... downtown is really starting to get small business interest b/c market expectations of rent are finally starting to look realistic.
Quote from: Jimmy on August 12, 2011, 08:39:52 AM
Ron, you make some good points. But it's not like that donut store, sandwich place, smoke shop, or liquor store are in the offing. Downtown's dance card is empty at present. If the lady won't dance with a respectable suitor like 7-11, she may not get to dance at all.
Quote from: thelakelander on August 12, 2011, 09:39:58 AM
The 7-11s in DT San Diego and Orlando have not hampered their redevelopment. Judging from our peer cities, I'd say there's room for anyone willing to offer a quality product and service (although it would be nice to have an entity help with location selection). Let's add some mobile food trucks while we're at it.
I see what you are saying. I sometimes attempt to fit certain idealistic principles where the fit is lacking. BTW, from a reliable source, I discovered that the 7-11 will not be coming into the Magnificat location. In any case, when I imagine a 7-11 type of store in the beautiful, prime location at Magnificat, I cringe. What a waste of an excellent location. I must get used to the idea that the only place for a 7-11 is in some depressed area of the county, were it really makes sense to stock so many "essentials" for the surrounding homes.
But... if a 7-11 can survive in or near the city center..... why not. Hopefully we will have more mainstream retail, of all types, entering the area soon. If that happens, and the 7-11 is pushed out, so be it.
Mobile Food Trucks??? My initial reaction is, I hope they don't increase, as we need permanency... solid places, here to stay; not transient images, as would be at a flea market. But.... again, we might say that we need "anything" that can survive at this point. Okay, so I was being too idealistic, too controlling or restrictive.
I see mobile food truck courts as an important segment of the tactical urbanism movement. We've got so many surface parking lots and dead spaces down here that it would take decades for them to fill in with permanent development. Located in the right spots, these concepts can help fill in the gaps with activity. Also, there an innovative way to support small business growth. As far as competition, I'm a believer of the free market and choice. Not everyone wants a sit down restaurant for every meal and not everyone wants a street vendor at all times either. However, having a choice is one of the great characteristics of urban living and the longer we keep and add regulations in place to stop choice and change from happening, the longer and more expensive the revitalization process will be.
As for 7-11, this past week (Im in LA right now), I've personally seen and photographed enough store locations to visually prove that these places can successfully exist and enhance any Jax specific environment.
QuoteBTW, from a reliable source, I discovered that the 7-11 will not be coming into the Magnificat location. In any case, when I imagine a 7-11 type of store in the beautiful, prime location at Magnificat, I cringe. What a waste of an excellent location.
That is good news indeed! Now maybe Benoit can sleep at night again. He was pretty stressed.
Even if an existing business is pushed out of a location they can still set up elsewhere. Look at Lomax Lodge and Underbelly.
Quote from: fieldafm on August 12, 2011, 11:55:31 AM
Quote from: John P on August 11, 2011, 05:57:04 PM
Quote from: fieldafm on August 11, 2011, 05:09:21 PM
Downtown is about to get TWO more really good signings.
The deals that are being offered now are a VERY good thing for small business and downtown in general. Expectation of rent is finally in line with a reasonable market rate.
Is this one? http://jacksonville.com/entertainment/food-and-dining/2011-08-11/story/fionn-maccools-open-jacksonville-landing
Nope, that deal was signed two weeks ago.
These two potential deals are new.
I have repeated it often the last few months... downtown is really starting to get small business interest b/c market expectations of rent are finally starting to look realistic.
Hint??
Avondale fought off 7-11 because they didn't want the kind of traffic that it might bring. Seems like there is more than ample mini marts at the gas stations in this area. I would hate to see a 7-11 be put in over a family business that could help better the community.
I think 7-11 has already purchased their lot and are moving forward with the conceptual design for a store on it in Avondale.
Are you sure that the 7-11 has purchased the lot? Property appraiser still shows the original owner. That site seems to up date pretty quick, my house was in my name on there in 2 days.
About dang time...A Slurppee sounds good right about now
The 7-11s in Japan are awesome. They are mini-grocery stores, not just chips, soda, and cigs. In fact, the candy and soda are very limited in the Japanese stores, and they have items like sushi, fresh made teas.
I suppose its too much to hope they do that here, huh....
^^^ probably, because that's not what the majority likes (sushi, tea). Americans like candy, chips and soda.
I'm just wondering why the beer vending machines never caught on here.....
(http://images.travelpod.co.uk/users/meganchan/japan_-_04-05.1100524080.vending_machine_beer.jpg)
Quote from: Non-RedNeck Westsider on September 07, 2011, 08:52:26 AM
^^^ probably, because that's not what the majority likes (sushi, tea). Americans like candy, chips and soda.
I'm just wondering why the beer vending machines never caught on here.....
The simple answer is that United States, unlike the rest of the America's has a long standing need to control personal and consumer behavior and to criminalize anything that goes beyond some preconceived notion of social morality. Ask anyone from Latin America if drinking is a problem among the youth in their countries... NOT AT ALL. No restrictions, equals no attraction to rebellious children. Here, the rule is drinking a beer or smoking a cigarette as a teen is paramount to ripping off the national treasury and brings instant hero status. Just goes to show that we could learn a lot from 'our poor backward neighbors.'OCKLAWAHA
^Well, partially. There are cultural factors as well. Binge drinking is much more common across the Anglosphere than it is in certain other parts of the world. The UK, Ireland, Canada, Australia, and New Zealand have basically the same patterns and problems that we do, despite each country having quite different approaches to handling it. It's a deep cultural issue that won't be dealt with in one fell swoop.
^Super civilized Iceland has a huge incidence of youth binge drinking too. Maybe it's a Viking heritage thing. Rate of alcoholism in Mediterranean peoples, including Jews, is much lower than among Northern Europeans. Given the problems among Native Americans and Aboriginal people in Australia, there must be a genetic component to it as well.
7-Eleven is not a Japanese company. They have been headquartered in Dallas, Texas since 1925, and remain there. They are, however, the largest chain of markets in Japan. The convenience store format is extremely popular with the Japanese.
Quote from: Demosthenes on September 07, 2011, 08:47:04 AM
The 7-11s in Japan are awesome. They are mini-grocery stores, not just chips, soda, and cigs. In fact, the candy and soda are very limited in the Japanese stores, and they have items like sushi, fresh made teas.
I suppose its too much to hope they do that here, huh....
Just got back from Tokyo, and I think, even if I didn't buy anything, I walked into a 7-11 at least once a day.
Quote from: GatorGrowl on March 23, 2012, 10:38:23 AM
7-Eleven is not a Japanese company. They have been headquartered in Dallas, Texas since 1925, and remain there.
maybe so, but they are a wholly owned subsidiary of a Japanese company.
Per Wiki: 7-Eleven is part of an international chain of convenience stores, operating under Seven-Eleven Japan Co. Ltd, which in turn is owned by Seven & I Holdings Co. of Japan.[2]