Metro Jacksonville

Lots of things scare me.  This really scares me.   

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/08/07/us/politics/07prayer.html

Perry Leads Prayer Rally for ‘Nation in Crisis’By MANNY FERNANDEZ
HOUSTON â€" Standing on a stage surrounded by thousands of fellow Christians on Saturday morning, Gov. Rick Perry of Texas called on Jesus to bless and guide the nation’s military and political leaders and “those who cannot see the light in the midst of all the darkness.”

“Lord, you are the source of every good thing,” Mr. Perry said, as he bowed his head, closed his eyes and leaned into a microphone at Reliant Stadium here. “You are our only hope, and we stand before you today in awe of your power and in gratitude for your blessings, and humility for our sins. Father, our heart breaks for America. We see discord at home. We see fear in the marketplace. We see anger in the halls of government, and as a nation we have forgotten who made us, who protects us, who blesses us, and for that we cry out for your forgiveness.”

In a 13-minute address, Mr. Perry read several passages from the Bible during a prayer rally he sponsored. Thousands of people stood or kneeled in the aisles or on the concrete floor in front of the stage, some wiping away tears and some shouting, “Amen!”

The rally was seen as one of the biggest tests of Mr. Perry’s political career, coming as he nears a decision on whether to seek the Republican nomination for president. While the event will be sure to help Mr. Perry if he tries to establish himself as the religious right’s favored candidate, it also opens him up to criticism for mixing religion and politics in such a grand and overtly Christian fashion.

In many ways, the rally was unprecedented, even in Texas, where faith and politics have long intersected without much controversy â€" the governor, as both a private citizen and an elected leader, delivering a message to the Lord at a Christian prayer rally he created, while using his office’s prestige, letterhead, Web site and other resources to promote it. Mr. Perry said he wanted people of all faiths to attend, but Christianity dominated the service and the religious affiliations of the crowd. The prayers were given in Jesus Christ’s name, and the many musical performers sang of Christian themes of repentance and salvation.

Mr. Perry, a lifelong Methodist who regularly attends an evangelical megachurch near his home in West Austin, has been speaking and preaching in sanctuaries throughout Texas since he was state agricultural commissioner in the 1990s. Organizers for the event, called The Response: A Call to Prayer for a Nation in Crisis, estimated that more than 30,000 people were at Reliant Stadium when Mr. Perry spoke. The seating capacity is 71,500, and tens of thousands of seats in the upper decks were empty.

“I wish you could see what I see here,” announced Luis Cataldo, a leader of the International House of Prayer, a Christian ministry in Kansas City, Mo., as the event began at 10 a.m. “This is the body of Christ.”

While those on the stage avoided making overt political statements or expressions of political support for Mr. Perry, many in the audience made it clear in interviews that they would vote for the governor should he enter the presidential race.

Liz Lara, 62, who lives in La Vernia, Tex., drove about 200 miles to Houston with her daughter and two grandchildren to attend the rally. She said the family came to support Mr. Perry and pray for God’s help in solving the nation’s problems. “I believe that God has prepared Rick Perry for such a time as this,” she said. “I believe he will be our next president.”

At one point, Mr. Perry asked those in the audience to pray for President Obama. “Father, we pray for our president, that you impart your wisdom upon him, that you would guard his family,” he said.

Mr. Perry addressed the crowd nine days after a federal judge dismissed a lawsuit filed against him by a national group of atheists arguing that his participation in the rally in his official capacity as governor violated the First Amendment’s requirement of separation of church and state.

Members and supporters of that group, the Wisconsin-based Freedom From Religion Foundation, were among dozens of people protesting outside the stadium. Others included gay activists who criticized Mr. Perry for supporting the American Family Association, which organized and financed the rally. The association is a conservative evangelical group based in Mississippi that is listed as an antigay hate group by the nonprofit Southern Poverty Law Center.

Mr. Perry had invited his fellow governors to join him, but only Gov. Sam Brownback of Kansas, a Republican, attended. Gov. Rick Scott of Florida made a video statement that was played in the stadium.

Yes, there is an American Christian equivalent of the Taliban who would love to see their beliefs made into law and enforced on the rest of us.  Scary indeed.

What's scary is to see how far our country has turned away for the God that has blessed us for so long. God bless Gov. Perry.

Quote from: stephenc on August 07, 2011, 11:25:27 AM
What's scary is to see how far our country has turned away for the God that has blessed us for so long. God bless Gov. Perry.

Has some kind of god really blessed us?  Which one, as there have been many thousands through the centuries.  Apparently I've been too busy, and therefore unaware of this condition of being blessed.  How long has this been going on?  Do you have any evidence of this blessing activity?  Please place it upon this thread, as it seems to be a good thing, and I do not wish to miss any good thing.   

"A crowd of 30,000."    Let's see, Houston is the third largest population center in the US with about 12 million folks living in the greater metropolitan area, so 30,000 seems incredibly small to me. If they had offered free hotdogs it would have been full.................I don't think feeding hungry people is on their "TO DO" list.

Maybe they could just pray for rain. Then we could see some evidence of God hearing and then answering their prayers.

I love the way this is being presentred as a Republican event. This from the party that is opposed to free school lunches for poor students, that thinks that is a bad use of tax payers dollars, that wants to slash education budgets, that thinks unemployment insurance is used to pay for condos in Vail....................

But back to the topic, it was rather thoughtful to pray for President Obama. I guess if this event is succesful and God answers the prayers then we will come roaring out of this "recession," and Texas will again become the green and verdant place it was in the past. Oh yeah, and Obama is bound to be re-elected.   

Let me re-phrase my previous comment. 30,000 is pathetically small. Indivcative of Gov Perry's chances to become our next President. What is not mentioned is the 24/7 advertising this event received on many of the SuperPower Evangelical radio networks that stretch across our country and smother the geographical area that served this event. Those stations claim millions of listeners in their audience.  Were they busy, or on vacation?

Obama could have filled that stadium with 2 days notice.

"A Call to Prayer for A Nation In Crisis"?????  How about this: have every church in America simply pay real estate taxes on their real estate holdings? That would be a huge help for a Nation in Crisis!!!!!!!!!!!!!

The next President will be Obama or Romney. However Romney may not win the nomination. 

I wonder if we can force Texas to secede?.....that state is such an embarrassment.

You can view Rick Perry's stellar college transcript here: http://www.scribd.com/fullscreen/61684192

Too bad we can't view any files pertaining to his thievery of our government.

Funnny how you leftists are terrified of folks like Perry who have actually been successful at presiding over a government.  And yet the current US regime led by the talking suit doesnt bother you one bit. Texas, an embarrassment?  Thats idiodic.  You people compare tea party folks to terrorists, and now compare Perry's religious views to being similar to the Taliban.  Like one of those comedians said; "You can't fix stupid".  How true.  You cant argue with them either. 

Quote from: RMHoward on August 07, 2011, 02:11:15 PM
Funnny how you leftists are terrified of folks like Perry who have actually been successful at presiding over a government.  And yet the current US regime led by the talking suit doesnt bother you one bit. Texas, an embarrassment?  Thats idiodic.  You people compare tea party folks to terrorists, and now compare Perry's religious views to being similar to the Taliban.  Like one of those comedians said; "You can't fix stupid".  How true.  You cant argue with them either.

'current US regime'?  what about it is supposed to bother us?  for that matter, when you use the word 'regime', are you doïng so because ov the word's actual definition, or (as i suspect) because ov the implication ov authoritarianism?

...oh yeah, one more question:  can you define 'leftist' in any way more meaningful than 'anyöne who disagrees with you politically and distrusts republicans'?  because it's a dreadfully vague phrase, full ov implied invective, and i'd love to know at whom you're actually pointing it.

edit:  what the hell is this thread doïng in the downtown section?

Well, since you asked.  My definition of "leftist" especially as it pertains to this forum would be as follows:  If a Republican said the sky was blue, a leftists would argue tirelessly that the sky was any other color  than blue rather than be in the unenviable position of actually agreeing with the Republican.  A leftists would rather see the US fail at any endeavor led by a Republican President, whether it be war, economic health, etc. rather than see any credit given to that President, or his party.  A leftist will, in a heartbeat, call you a racist, homophobe or even a terrorist if you happen to disagree with this President's policies.  A leftists hates the thought of our international borders (especially the one with Mexico) being closed to anyone who wants to cross into our country.  A leftist will argue that: certainly the State of California should provide free college tuition (among other services) to the children of illegal immigrants just because they have been here forever, regardless of the fact that they 1.  cant afford it, and 2. its wrong, 3. the taxpayers foot the bill 4. children of legal immigrants are not given this.  A leftist will ignore the fact that unions in this country are out of control and hurting the competitiveness of our evil rich corporations.  Leftists will insist on continued exorbinate union benefits regardless of whether companies, states, local govts can afford them or not.  A leftist will insist on unending unemployment benefits for everyone.  If someone suggest otherwise, then they brand them as being uncaring or heartless. A leftist never accepts responsibility for his/her actions/policies and is skilled at shifting blame and will not hesitate to do so (talk to W about this).  There is no "the buck stops here" sign on current leftist desk.    So, now you hopefully have an idea of what my definition of what a leftist actually is.  Perhaps it doesnt match what you have been taught, or teach in your elitist circles.  And as for the word regime, I meant it in the negative way that it came across.  It fits nicely with the countless (how many) CZARs appointed by the talking suit that answer to no one and ride roughshod over all those evil wealthy corporations.

edit:  what the hell is this thread doïng in the downtown section?

Sorry about that.  It should have been in the politics section.  First mistake I've ever maad. 

Quote from: RMHoward on August 07, 2011, 03:27:16 PM
Well, since you asked...

by that definition, i'm pretty sure i've never met any leftists.  and i don't have an 'elitist circle', though i can't help but wonder why anyöne who's not ashamed ov their education is branded an elitist and treated with disdain, especially by republicans.  you guys gave us shit for jimmy carter because he was a (relatively) uneducated peanut farmer, then you turned around and gave us shit for obama because he has a better vocabulary than a third grader--what exactly do you want in terms ov education and intelligence?

regarding your usage ov 'regime', the past decade (longer, actually, but let's keep it reasonably recent) have shown that oversight is necessary, because those 'evil wealthy corporations' really do tend to behave in an 'evil' (or at least highly unethical) manner if left unchecked.  obama's administration hasn't done anything that interferes with my freedom, and i doubt it has done anything that interferes with yours.

Jimmy Carter actually had a Phd in physics.  Just because he had that red-clay, Georgia accent didn't mean that he was uneducated.  Rick Perry got a C in gym and that was one of his highest grades...the lunkhead.

And yes, Rick Perry and his evangelical followers at this rally would very much like to see their narrow, pin-headed religious views made enforceable law of the land.  That is exactly what the Taliban did in Afghanistan and what the Saudi King has done in Saudi Arabia.

     My objective in placing the NYT article about Perry was to illustrate the continuing pressure of religion into the political sphere where, if most intelligent individuals had their way, it would not be.  To attempt entering into a discussion about the left and the right, democrat and republican, liberal and conservative, and their definitions and dynamics of interaction, would leave me drowning in a sea of complexities I cannot begin to understand.  My attempt to do so would only show my ignorance, and would allow little profit to anyone. 

     In other words I find it difficult to believe that our political establishment is of such simplicity to allow for much credibility or sense to exist in what is often said in haste or rant about it.  And besides, there is so much said that is not true, that is said only for political gain at the expense of truth, so that I become confused as to what to believe, or how to interpret what is said; ultimately becoming discouraged about it all. 

     Our current political system seems to be a mix of greed, lies, self-centered lobbying, and power seeking; with only a few politicians of integrity, laboring through the hell of it all to make a difference in the direction of good for the common man.  It’s amazing that our judicial system, our government, cannot prosecute those individuals who, being worth perhaps 40 million dollars, are not satisfied with it, and in their machinations to be worth 40 billion, will screw over, by whatever possible means, the average man and woman who is strugglling week to week, just to pay the bills.

Quote from: Dog Walker on August 07, 2011, 10:05:54 AM
Yes, there is an American Christian equivalent of the Taliban who would love to see their beliefs made into law and enforced on the rest of us.  Scary indeed.

DW, really?  Are you really comparing Americans who publicly proclaim their religious beliefs to the Taliban?  I am sure that you would withdraw that statement if you think about it.

Quote from RMHoward : "Funny how you leftists are terrified of folks like Perry who have actually been successful at presiding over a government.  And yet the current US regime led by the talking suit doesn't bother you one bit. Texas, an embarrassment?  Thats idiodic.  You people compare tea party folks to terrorists, and now compare Perry's religious views to being similar to the Taliban.  Like one of those comedians said; "You can't fix stupid".  How true.  You cant argue with them either.

RM, Thank you for posting your opinion. After all that is what a blog is for. I believe you represent about 10% (at most) of the voting population, on the far right of the political spectrum. However it also places you outside of the mainstream of our population at large. I just want you to realize that the reason "the talking suit" won in 2008 is because of the horrible job 'W' did as president. That's right, "your guy" was so bad a "talking suit" actually beat John McCain, the best know Republican in America, with the largest amount of votes ever cast for a Winner in any election in the good old USA.  66,882,230 Americans in fact.  Or is that 66,882,230 Leftists?

The reason Tea Party members of Congress have been described as Terrorists is that they publicly put a gun to the head of our country's economy and said "Give me everything I want or I'll shoot."  That's why.

And Texas? If it weren't for oil, Texas would be the world's largest sunburnt cow pie.

Finally, if the citizens of this country wanted a conservative evangelical Republican to be President we would be talking about Pres Huckabee not the "talking suit." 

Just a reality check for you from a "leftist."

P.S. Will you be upset if the "talking suit" gets re-elected?

Whenever a candidate riles up the zealots, I smell pandering.

This time is no exception. I won't vote for him.

Would he be our first gay President?

Quote from: stephendare on August 07, 2011, 07:13:34 PM

Quote from: stephenc on August 07, 2011, 11:25:27 AM
What's scary is to see how far our country has turned away for the God that has blessed us for so long. God bless Gov. Perry.

I completely agree with this statement,  But we have made tremendous gains over the past century towards getting back to a more moral country.

We stopped segregating blacks and whites, despite the Baptists who protested desegregation.

We stopped treating women like second class citizens.

We stopped looking the other way when thugs killed people simply for being gay or lesbian.

We quit ostracizing women for divorcing their abusive husbands.

We started taking care of the poorest and weakest amongst us, and we started providing for our elderly.

All in all not bad for only 60 years of progress.

Hopefully we will stop discriminating against people based on bigotry, racism, and ignorance altogether in our lifetime.  Hopefully we will treat mental illnesses as a curable disease, health care will be a basic human right and all people will be entititled to housing the way that every set of scriptures in the world prescribes.

I share your vision, Stephenc.

It would be amazing if mankind suddenly started treating each other with love and respect and compassion, in such a way that honors our creator.

Has some kind of god really blessed us?  Which one, as there have been many thousands through the centuries.  Apparently I've been too busy, and therefore unaware of this condition of being blessed.  How long has this been going on?  Do you have any evidence of this blessing activity?  Please place it upon this thread, as it seems to be a good thing, and I do not wish to miss any good thing.

The above repeats my earlier post, to which I must ask.....  creator?  If you mean nature, or laws of the universe, then, yes I agree, as there are high values and behaviors to which mankind should strive, to which nature guides us, so that we might ultimately survive as a species, so that we might live better lives as individuals and as part of all humanity on this planet. 

These are natural laws, pressures from nature, arriving within us from our ability to reason, and having high levels of morality which encourage the pressure of love, respect and compassion.  As you have said, many scriptures prescribe these values, but these scriptures are unfortunately associated in most cases with irrational religious connections and belief systems that carry the baggage of believing in mythologies and untruths that should have been dumped by mankind long ago.

I prefer to gain the guidance to good behavior and to a productive life from sources such as the experience of living, and from those wiser than me, that exclude the necessity of engaging the absurd teachings of a system frequently abusive to its followers not only by the extraction of monies in the excess, but also by espousing fictions, mythologies, and absurdities which should only insult the intelligence of those within hearing distance.

Our current political and financial predicament cannot be cured by having more believers in the virtue of hope and faith in some imaginary god who has never once in many thousands of years shown any evidence of existence, a god that was created, of necessity at the time, by the mind of man according to his needs and his ignorance.

Our future security and quality of life depends on having more people who have the courage to think for themselves, to think and behave with good reason, with objectivity, as nature has given the ability; and this, so that they might act and vote with good sense.  The continued cultivation of a culture of belief systems that should have gone from our midst with the end of the middle ages only offers evidence of a large group of self serving charlatans who should be ashamed of themselves for perpetuating a system which dupes vulnerable minds into believing a scenario of absurdities as taught by most religious systems.  Shame on Joel Osteen.  Shame on Jimmy Swaggart and his son Donnie.  Shame on Oral Roberts and his son Robert.  Shame on Jim Bakker.  Shame on Ted Haggard..... Pat Robertson...... Jerry Fallwall......and others. 

Quote from: stephenc on August 07, 2011, 11:25:27 AM
What's scary is to see how far our country has turned away for the God that has blessed us for so long. God bless Gov. Perry.

In all seriousness, how do you know that Perry isn't simply exploiting the religious beliefs of this country, for his own political benefit?  I'm not saying he is, but it certainly wouldn't be the first time someone has.  Don't you think at least a mustard seed of doubt is warranted, at least for some period of time?

Quote from: NotNow on August 07, 2011, 06:01:35 PM

Quote from: Dog Walker on August 07, 2011, 10:05:54 AM
Yes, there is an American Christian equivalent of the Taliban who would love to see their beliefs made into law and enforced on the rest of us.  Scary indeed.

DW, really?  Are you really comparing Americans who publicly proclaim their religious beliefs to the Taliban?  I am sure that you would withdraw that statement if you think about it.

What I am saying is that there are religious zealots in this country who would like to impose their version of morality on everybody by law.  They would like the US to be a Christian theocracy.  They are not just "publicly proclaiming their religious beliefs" they are trying their best to get them enacted into law.

And yes, that is exactly what the Taliban did in Afghanistan, what the mullahs have done in Iran, and what the Kings have done in Saudi Arabia.  Muslims aren't the only people with an intolerant, bigoted, narrow-minded version of their religion.

StephenDare!,

Your reply is so...out of step...that I don't quite know how to reply.  If you have to go that far out of a discussion make some kind of point then perhaps it is not a good point.

DW,

While there certainly MAY be some Christians who wish to establish a Christian state, I am not aware of any organized movement to do so.  Since you seemed to be  referring to the article that leads off  the thread, I found your compariison (of the Christians referred to in the article) quite extreme.

To continue StephenDare!'s tone, I would hope that Christians (and all religions) can gather together and express their views without being called terrorist and other names in my lifetime.

I also find it interesting that a forum with many gay members continues to use homosexuality as a blunt instrument against others.  I find the tactic....reprehensible.

Quote from: stephendare on August 07, 2011, 07:04:46 PM
How would you define 'leftist'.

Quote from: RMHoward on August 07, 2011, 03:27:16 PM
Well, since you asked.  My definition of "leftist" especially as it pertains to this forum would be as follows:  If a Republican said the sky was blue, a leftists would argue tirelessly that the sky was any other color  than blue rather than be in the unenviable position of actually agreeing with the Republican.  A leftists would rather see the US fail at any endeavor led by a Republican President, whether it be war, economic health, etc. rather than see any credit given to that President, or his party.  A leftist will, in a heartbeat, call you a racist, homophobe or even a terrorist if you happen to disagree with this President's policies.  A leftists hates the thought of our international borders (especially the one with Mexico) being closed to anyone who wants to cross into our country.  A leftist will argue that: certainly the State of California should provide free college tuition (among other services) to the children of illegal immigrants just because they have been here forever, regardless of the fact that they 1.  cant afford it, and 2. its wrong, 3. the taxpayers foot the bill 4. children of legal immigrants are not given this.  A leftist will ignore the fact that unions in this country are out of control and hurting the competitiveness of our evil rich corporations.  Leftists will insist on continued exorbinate union benefits regardless of whether companies, states, local govts can afford them or not.  A leftist will insist on unending unemployment benefits for everyone.  If someone suggest otherwise, then they brand them as being uncaring or heartless. A leftist never accepts responsibility for his/her actions/policies and is skilled at shifting blame and will not hesitate to do so (talk to W about this).  There is no "the buck stops here" sign on current leftist desk.    So, now you hopefully have an idea of what my definition of what a leftist actually is.  Perhaps it doesnt match what you have been taught, or teach in your elitist circles.  And as for the word regime, I meant it in the negative way that it came across.  It fits nicely with the countless (how many) CZARs appointed by the talking suit that answer to no one and ride roughshod over all those evil wealthy corporations.

Rick Perry is basically GW Bush 2.0

RMHoward you scare the Hell out of me too!!!!!
(;         (I'm laughing uncontrollably as I write this)   
(Cuz you really don't scare me.)
But I do have a question. Why do you guys hate the poor so much?

Quote from: MusicMan on August 07, 2011, 12:41:30 PM
"A Call to Prayer for A Nation In Crisis"?????  How about this: have every church in America simply pay real estate taxes on their real estate holdings? That would be a huge help for a Nation in Crisis!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Charitable and religious organizations which receive a 501(c)(3) tax exemption have a clear and simple choice to make: they can engage in religious activities and retain their exemption, or they can engage in political activity and lose it, but they cannot engage in political activity and retain their exemption.

What sane person would not recognize that the religious right has become deeply embroiled within the politics of our country? Their tax exempt status should be challenged.

Quote from: Diderot on August 08, 2011, 04:20:51 PM

Quote from: MusicMan on August 07, 2011, 12:41:30 PM
"A Call to Prayer for A Nation In Crisis"?????  How about this: have every church in America simply pay real estate taxes on their real estate holdings? That would be a huge help for a Nation in Crisis!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Charitable and religious organizations which receive a 501(c)(3) tax exemption have a clear and simple choice to make: they can engage in religious activities and retain their exemption, or they can engage in political activity and lose it, but they cannot engage in political activity and retain their exemption.

What sane person would not recognize that the religious right has become deeply embroiled within the politics of our country? Their tax exempt status should be challenged.

So agree. What's the hold-up?

Seems like challenging the powerful and ultra-wealthy is taboo in the US, but picking on the needy, elderly, sick and disabled is super fine.

End the war spending, and make the powerful and ultra-wealthy do their patriotic duty: Pay their taxes!!

Voila, deficit reduction of 70% or more!!

Quote from: stephendare on August 08, 2011, 01:22:09 PM
so you would agree that there are different kinds of fundamentalists or are you trying to avoid that answer ?

Also, would you find it reprehensible that a person who is secretly a christian had been involved in efforts to make Christianity illegal?  What if you found out that they had even gone so far as to suggest that other christians should be imprisoned and/or beaten for practicing their faith?

What would you have to say to that kind of self hatred and loathing?

I am not trying to avoid anything.  Comparing a criminal act to what was going on in the news story is just stupid.  I would be interested in what Christian organization or church is involved in shooting congregants or establishing a "Christian" government.

Rather than dance around the gay issue, I would prefer we say things plainly.  Perry has clearly stated that he is opposed to legal gay marriage.  I am not aware of any stand that Perry has taken that calls for beating or imprisoning gays.  As for the claims that Perry is gay, I have already stated my opinion. 

I don't put any faith in our politicians generally, but I am constantly amazed at what political"opposition" will come up with.  This disgusting habit happens on both sides of the aisle.  I personally believe that our politicians deserve a modicum of respect, at least until they really screw up.  And scandals happen often enough that we don't have to make them up.

Do you miss RG yet? By comparison he seems like a Nobel Laureate. This year's crop is found wanting. Oh well, the quality of everything is in decline.

Whatever happened to RG anyway?

Hey......how can this guy be a Christian?
Hes GAY.
Christians under no circumstances can be gay.......NONE!
He either has to not be gay or he can't be a christian.
What is this country turning into, a bathhouse?

The Repubs are SCREWED this time around. The Tea Baggers HATE Mitt Romney and all the independants and swing voters are going to run like hell away from another evangelical Governor from Texas. There is no way they
are going to beat the Obama team. Love or hate his policies, he has at least been a Gentleman and a good family man. If he can find and kill Ayman al Zawahiri then this election is over.

Quote from: copperfiend on August 08, 2011, 02:26:08 PM
Rick Perry is basically GW Bush 2.0

Naw,, Obama is basically GW Bush 2.0 on steroids.  Despite rhetoric that suggests the contrary, President Obama’s economic policies are strikingly more of the same failed policies that Bush tried before him. This is unfortunate because, as New York Times columnist Paul Krugman claims, the last decade has seen declining private-sector employment and declining median household income.

Quote from: johnnyman on August 11, 2011, 10:00:39 PM

Quote from: copperfiend on August 08, 2011, 02:26:08 PM
Rick Perry is basically GW Bush 2.0

Naw,, Obama is basically GW Bush 2.0 on steroids.  Despite rhetoric that suggests the contrary, President Obama’s economic policies are strikingly more of the same failed policies that Bush tried before him. This is unfortunate because, as New York Times columnist Paul Krugman claims, the last decade has seen declining private-sector employment and declining median household income.

I know, he even started another war and boosted defense spending. I really think he Republicans ought to just go ahead and nominate Obama over his objections, you'd think they'd really love him. He's as bad as Bush.

Quote from: ChriswUfGator on August 12, 2011, 01:24:38 PM
I know, he even started another war and boosted defense spending. I really think he Republicans ought to just go ahead and nominate Obama over his objections, you'd think they'd really love him. He's as bad as Bush.

that's probably where a lot ov the racism allegations come from--noöne can come up with another reason why so many republicans hate him so much.

having said that, i don't think he's anywhere near that bad.  though i feel a bit let down, i don't regret voting for him.

With a congress as we have..the republicans leading...Obama has'nt been able to do a damn thing with the obstructionist group...they made that clear from the beginning..they'll bring this country to it's bloody knees just to make him fail....they should be arrested...

Quote from: Garden guy on August 12, 2011, 03:36:52 PM
With a congress as we have..the republicans leading...Obama has'nt been able to do a damn thing with the obstructionist group...they made that clear from the beginning..they'll bring this country to it's bloody knees just to make him fail....they should be arrested...

Yeah, well Congress didn't start the war with Libya. In fact, they're pretty pissed about it. I agree with Kuroi, I feel let down by Obama. Although the question of Obama vs. McCain and that scary thing he nominated as his VP is a no-brainer, just on the Palin factor alone. If McCain's plane crashed or something, the last thing we can take a chance on is having that big-haired buffoon running the country.

But yeah, I feel very disappointed in Obama. And I can't figure out WTF the conservatives are so upset about with him, he's done everything wrong that they would have done and then some. Extended the Bush tax cuts, gives corporate handouts, panders to special interests, starts another war and resultant boon in defense spending, kisses ass to the financial services industry, and on and on and on. I can say with a straight face that he's a better republican than any of the current crop of republicans is. Sadly, much to my chagrin.

Obama can only do what congress lets him. Congress never wanted him to succeed. They have worked against him the entire time he has been in office. So if anything, we should be disappointed with Congress. Their agenda has been to make him fail at any costs. I will keep my mouth close about why they want him to fail... Just know its more than just the fact he is a democrat.......

Quote from: duvaldude08 on August 12, 2011, 04:09:07 PM
Obama can only do what congress lets him. Congress never wanted him to succeed. They have worked against him the entire time he has been in office. So if anything, we should be disappointed with Congress. Their agenda has been to make him fail at any costs. I will keep my mouth close about why they want him to fail... Just know its more than just the fact he is a democrat.......

I admit I don't know alot about this stuff but wasn't congress run by the Democrats since 2007?  So Obama's own party were working against him?  That sux for him,,, I think they still let him spend a bunch of money though,, Keansian-style.

Here is how Bush and Obama are the same economically anyway.  I think everyone agrees they are both war mongers.

1. Bush passed a $3 trillion budget for 2009. Obama posted a $3.5 trillion budget in 2010. Bush doubled the debt to almost $6 trillion and Obama’s plans would leave us with an IOU of an additional $8.5 trillion by 2020.

2. Contrary to popular belief, defense and homeland security spending only made up about 40 percent of Bush’s new spending. He increased spending across most non-defense categories â€" like education, Medicare, Medicaid, income security and regional development â€" by four to six times the rate of inflation. In Obama’s first half year in office, as he demanded a departure from the “investment deficit” years under Bush, these budgets rose another 70 percent or 40 times the rate of inflation.

3. In 2001 and 2008, Bush spent billions on rebates to stimulate consumer spending. In 2009, Obama upped the ante with his $862 billion stimulus package.

4. Obama carried out Bush’s unpopular $700 billion bailout for failing corporations. Together, the presidents have bailed out over 600 businesses since Spring 2008.

5. Once again contrary to popular belief, President Bush was the biggest regulator since Richard Nixon. Under his leadership in 2007, the number of pages of regulation added to the Federal Register reached an all-time high of 78,090 â€" a 21 percent increase from Bush’s first year. And spending on regulatory activities rose to $42 billion in 2009 â€" a 62 percent increase. Since taking office, Obama has proposed a large and sweeping increase in regulation that many worry could lead to more financial crisis in the future.

And because of alot of this,, here is where we find ourselves:

US population: 308 million
2010 US GDP: $14.7 trillion
Current US Debt: $14.3 trillion or 97% of GDP
2010 US Fed Gov't revenue: $2.3 trillion or 16% of GDP
2010 US Fed Gov't spending: $3.6 trillion or 25% of GDP
2010 US Fed Gov't spending as a percent of revenue: 157%
2010 US Fed Gov't deficit: $1.3 trillion or 9% of GDP
June 2011 US unemployment 9.2%
US working workforce 154 million people or 50% of the population
US working individuals that pay federal taxes is 50% of workforce
Percentages of US Fed Spending 2010:
Discrentionary: 37%
Defense: 20%, Education: 3.8%, Energy: 8%, Ag/Science etc 5.6%
Entitlements: 63%
Health: 11%, Medicare 13%, Income security: 15.3%, Social Security 20.2%, VA: 3%

Therefore, 25% of the population pays 100% of the tax revenu for 157% expenditures

Again,, I am new at this but this seems like this dog won't hunt for much longer.

That figure you have for defense and homeland security doesn't include the cost of the two wars.  They are "off the books", remember?

Can I just say it out loud?

I've lived through 5 five presidents, although I've only been old enough to vote in two presidential elections. I still followed politics out of curiousity my whole life. I have never been more disappointed in a president than I have been in Obama. At least with Clinton, Bush I, even Bush II, you knew what you were getting, even if you didn't vote for it and really didn't like it. But Obama seemed like a one thing and then has turned into a something entirely different, he now has very little resemblance (other than physical) to Obama ca. 2008, in terms of politics and policies.

I'll say it again, he's a better republican than the actual #$%@ing republicans. But compared to the loony-bin full of alternate options that's come out of the woodwork so far, well, I just really don't like any of them, including Obama. I'm just disappointed.

QuoteI'll say it again, he's a better republican than the actual #$%@ing republicans. But compared to the loony-bin full of alternate options that's come out of the woodwork so far, well, I just really don't like any of them, including Obama. I'm just disappointed. I think we should enact an amendment waiving the normal term limit so Clinton can serve 1 more term.

I have to say I agree with you Chris.  I cannot even watch the circus that the reps are putting on in Iowa.  I could even take Clinton back... provided we pair him up with a rep congress like before...

Quote from: BridgeTroll on August 13, 2011, 02:27:12 PM

QuoteI'll say it again, he's a better republican than the actual #$%@ing republicans. But compared to the loony-bin full of alternate options that's come out of the woodwork so far, well, I just really don't like any of them, including Obama. I'm just disappointed. I think we should enact an amendment waiving the normal term limit so Clinton can serve 1 more term.

I have to say I agree with you Chris.  I cannot even watch the circus that the reps are putting on in Iowa.  I could even take Clinton back... provided we pair him up with a rep congress like before...

Republican,,, Democrat,,,,????  means nothing,,,, obscure ,,,,,,   we need another fiscal conservative like Slick.  Best Prez we ever had.  Hopefully Bush/Obama era is a nightmare of the past.  Please Democrats,, wake up,, run a qualified candidate this go around.

RICK PERRY CAMPAING SLOGAN:

"HEAVEN HELP US!"

I want someone pro health care, trying to figure out how to do education better not cheaper, anti free trade, anti sending our children out to die in stink holes around the globe and willing to have corporations actually pay at least a low rate of taxes.

So I am out of luck as both the Reps and Dems are corporate shills who couldn't care less if our service people are overseas being shot.

Quote from: JeffreyS on August 13, 2011, 08:54:28 PM
I want someone pro health care, trying to figure out how to do education better not cheaper, anti free trade, anti sending our children out to die in stink holes around the globe and willing to have corporations actually pay at least a low rate of taxes.

So I am out of luck as both the Reps and Dems are corporate shills who couldn't care less if our service people are overseas being shot.

+1  I don't have anything more to add.  Its nice to see others realize the truth.  Where's Code Pink,, NAACP, ANSWER,,,, Oh that's right,, they are just political shills tool

Perry indicted on two felonies

Texas Gov. Rick Perry, in the twilight of his 14th year in office and widely thought to be a 2016 presidential contender, was indicted Friday on felony charges arising from his effort to force the resignation of District Attorney Rosemary Lehmberg after she was arrested for drunken driving.
In a decision that could hamper Perry's presidential aspirations, a Travis County grand jury indicted Perry, 64, on two felonies: abuse of official capacity and coercion of a public servant.

http://www.statesman.com/news/news/state-regional-govt-politics/perry-indicted-on-two-felonies-after-veto-threat/ng35b/

Quote from: finehoe on August 16, 2014, 02:55:16 PM
Perry indicted on two felonies

Texas Gov. Rick Perry, in the twilight of his 14th year in office and widely thought to be a 2016 presidential contender, was indicted Friday on felony charges arising from his effort to force the resignation of District Attorney Rosemary Lehmberg after she was arrested for drunken driving.
In a decision that could hamper Perry's presidential aspirations, a Travis County grand jury indicted Perry, 64, on two felonies: abuse of official capacity and coercion of a public servant.

http://www.statesman.com/news/news/state-regional-govt-politics/perry-indicted-on-two-felonies-after-veto-threat/ng35b/

Even former adviser to President Obama, David Axelrod, and Ben White from Politico think the indictment is ridiculous. 

Silly

Quote from: fsquid on August 17, 2014, 12:25:00 AM
Silly

I do not know if the prosecutor had a political agenda but the indictment was brought by a grand jury so it should be taken seriously.

Quote from: JeffreyS on August 17, 2014, 10:42:07 AM

Quote from: fsquid on August 17, 2014, 12:25:00 AM
Silly

I do not know if the prosecutor had a political agenda but the indictment was brought by a grand jury so it should be taken seriously.

I can think a grand jury is dumb too.  You are correct though, Gov. Perry should take it seriously.

Next President?  No.

Quote from: JeffreyS on August 17, 2014, 10:42:07 AM

Quote from: fsquid on August 17, 2014, 12:25:00 AM
Silly

I do not know if the prosecutor had a political agenda but the indictment was brought by a grand jury so it should be taken seriously.

A grand jury does not have to shown exculpatory evidence, the prosecutor has sole discretion on what evidence the grand jury sees. 

Quote from: carpnter on August 18, 2014, 11:12:40 PM
A grand jury does not have to shown exculpatory evidence, the prosecutor has sole discretion on what evidence the grand jury sees.

And apparently they felt that evidence warranted an indictment.  What is your point?

simply a political move that is going to backfire for this AD. I'm sure he was hoping for a mugshot photo

QuoteI admit I don't know alot about this stuff but wasn't congress run by the Democrats since 2007?

Republicans controlled the White House from 2007-2009.  They have controlled the House of Representative since January 2011.  So no, it is not the Democrats that have undermined Obama at every turn.

Quote from: finehoe on August 19, 2014, 08:29:43 AM

Quote from: carpnter on August 18, 2014, 11:12:40 PM
A grand jury does not have to shown exculpatory evidence, the prosecutor has sole discretion on what evidence the grand jury sees.

And apparently they felt that evidence warranted an indictment.  What is your point?

One you obviously missed.  In a grand jury, the prosecutor has sole discretion to present the evidence in such a way that he will get the indictment he wants even if there is evidence that clearly shows that the person is innocent.

Quote from: fsquid on August 19, 2014, 08:40:09 AM
simply a political move that is going to backfire for this AD. I'm sure he was hoping for a mugshot photo

Yup. Disgraceful.