Not a bad list to sit atop of. It seems surprising that Jax Beach has 2x as many visitors as Myrtle Beach or Ocean City, however - maybe because they're more seasonal(?).
QuoteWhat do Miami, Clearwater and Daytona Beach all have in common? They are ranked lower than Jacksonville Beach in popularity, according to one national publication.
The Daily Beast used data from the United States Lifeguarding Association to put together its Top 20 list, which found Jacksonville Beach in the top spot.
Jacksonville Beach earned the spot because of the metrics used in the calculations, which involved the number of people who visited the beach in 2010 and the number of people who live there.
Nine million people reportedly visited Jacksonville Beach in 2010, and just over 22,000 call it home.
The formula is not cut and dry, however. From The Daily Beast:
Total visitors and a metric of visitors divided by residents were weighted equally to determine the overall rank.
The Number 2 beach, Ocean City, Maryland, had 4 million visitors versus just under 7,000 residents.
Miami ranked third, with over 14 million visitors and 88,000 residents
http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2011/07/31/most-popular-beaches-in-the-u-s.html
http://www.firstcoastnews.com/news/article/213276/3/Jacksonville-Beach-is-the-Nations-Most-Popular-Beach-According-to-the-Daily-Beast
Wow, I didn't know that Jacksonville Beach (22 sq miles, 22,000 residents) is larger than the City of Miami Beach (18.7 sq miles, 88,000 residents) in land area. I guess there is a room for future Jax Beach growth.
plenty of room for growth...especially if you can get past that pesky height ordinance the residents pushed through a few years back
Quote from: thelakelander on August 02, 2011, 01:17:27 PM
Wow, I didn't know that Jacksonville Beach (22 sq miles, 22,000 residents) is larger than the City of Miami Beach (18.7 sq miles, 88,000 residents) in land area. I guess there is a room for future Jax Beach growth.
I wonder if it might have to do with the fact that Miami Beach has more high rises compared to Jax Beach making it more dense. Most of Jax is fairly low density once you get west of 3rd Street and even more so in some of the neighborhoods west of Penman. It doesn't seem like there are a lot of empty lots around.
Quote from: tufsu1 on August 02, 2011, 01:50:59 PM
plenty of room for growth...especially if you can get past that pesky height ordinance the residents pushed through a few years back
I agree. The resident's of Jax Beach are the ones who are holding back the growth. I remember they stated, " we dont want it turn into Miami Beach." I guess its that small town thinking that plagues the entire city of Jacksonville.
QuoteI guess its that small town thinking that plagues the entire city of Jacksonville.
I don't think Jax Beach is being plagued by any small town thinking. In fact their goverment has made quite an effort to enhance and promote its downtown. Their downtown is far more vibrant than DT Jax. Perhaps they just didn't want half empty high rises blocking everyone's view of the ocean. There's always Panama City Beach if that's what your into.
Quote from: cline on August 02, 2011, 01:51:20 PM
Quote from: thelakelander on August 02, 2011, 01:17:27 PM
Wow, I didn't know that Jacksonville Beach (22 sq miles, 22,000 residents) is larger than the City of Miami Beach (18.7 sq miles, 88,000 residents) in land area. I guess there is a room for future Jax Beach growth.
I wonder if it might have to do with the fact that Miami Beach has more high rises compared to Jax Beach making it more dense. Most of Jax is fairly low density once you get west of 3rd Street and even more so in some of the neighborhoods west of Penman. It doesn't seem like there are a lot of empty lots around.
The highrises have something to do with it but Miami Beach is pretty dense at street level throughout. The majority of the city has buildings at this scale and density:
(http://www.metrojacksonville.com/photos/thumbs/lrg-3779-p1070793.JPG)
(http://www.metrojacksonville.com/photos/thumbs/lrg-3780-p1070751.JPG)
(http://www.metrojacksonville.com/photos/thumbs/lrg-3770-p1070742.JPG)
Over time, I could see Jax Beach developing with a similar density and scale east of Third Street.
sure lake...but these are pics west of Collins/Washington in Miami Beach....saying that Jax. Beach gets there east of 3rd is doable...
But Miami Beach density is higher because east of Collins/washington are high rises....and Jax. beach is lower because west of 3rd is predominantly single family.
Quote from: duvaldude08 on August 02, 2011, 01:54:11 PM
Quote from: tufsu1 on August 02, 2011, 01:50:59 PM
plenty of room for growth...especially if you can get past that pesky height ordinance the residents pushed through a few years back
I agree. The resident's of Jax Beach are the ones who are holding back the growth. I remember they stated, " we dont want it turn into Miami Beach." I guess its that small town thinking that plagues the entire city of Jacksonville.
I disagree. Personally, I don't want Jax Beach to be littered with half empty/half built condo towers like Miami, Daytona, Clearwater and other Florida beaches. Jax Beach has some charm. I think they have done a good job of allowing useful and smart developments without sacrificing the reason people like the beach to begin with.
I am impressed with the development off of third that houses the yoga studio and Dick's Wings. Parking on the roof!!
I was in South Florida two weeks ago and went to South Beach two days out of 10. I don't think Jax Beach will ever look like Miami Beach. Miami Bch has more shops while Jax Bch has more residential. The buildings would have to be demolished for us to have that type of density.
On a side note, between Espanola Way and 5th St., they have 3 streets (Washington Av, Collins Av, and Ocean. Dr) full of just shops and hotels. Jacksonville also has 3 streets (1st St, 2nd St, and 3rd St) also. The density could be created but a lot would have to happen first.
Quote from: tufsu1 on August 02, 2011, 03:09:01 PM
sure lake...but these are pics west of Collins/Washington in Miami Beach....saying that Jax. Beach gets there east of 3rd is doable...
But Miami Beach density is higher because east of Collins/washington are high rises....and Jax. beach is lower because west of 3rd is predominantly single family.
Miami Beach is denser simply because its an urban city and has been so for decades. In fact, the population was greater than Jax Beach is today, back in 1940 (28,000) and it has declined since it's 1980 peak of 96,000). Strange enough, the majority of its highrises have been built since 1980 and the city has lost 8,500 residents since.
Oh, I wasn't referring to Jax Beach ever resembling Miami Beach in terms of highrise development. Jax Beach couldn't achieve that even if it wanted to. We don't have that type of market or interest from international developers. However, Jax Beach can grow to become a walkable community similar to what the core of Miami Beach is and has historically been.
Quote from: cline on August 02, 2011, 02:23:53 PM
QuoteI guess its that small town thinking that plagues the entire city of Jacksonville.
I don't think Jax Beach is being plagued by any small town thinking. In fact their goverment has made quite an effort to enhance and promote its downtown. Their downtown is far more vibrant than DT Jax. Perhaps they just didn't want half empty high rises blocking everyone's view of the ocean. There's always Panama City Beach if that's what your into.
It's more preservationist thinking than small town thinking. All three of the Beaches have put heavy emphasis on managing their growth wisely, including limiting sun-blotting condo and hotel high rises while still building up their town centers and keeping the area pedestrian and bike friendly. They've been more successful in checking the overtures of developers than nearly anywhere else on the First Coast, including putting a stop to the overbuilding of residential mid- and high rises even before the housing market crashed. And that's saying something considering they're one of the biggest draws in this part of the state. Neptune even successfully fought of a Wal-Mart. A
Wal-Mart.
If only the rest of the city had this kind of thinking.
Quote from: thelakelander on August 02, 2011, 03:41:22 PM
Quote from: tufsu1 on August 02, 2011, 03:09:01 PM
sure lake...but these are pics west of Collins/Washington in Miami Beach....saying that Jax. Beach gets there east of 3rd is doable...
But Miami Beach density is higher because east of Collins/washington are high rises....and Jax. beach is lower because west of 3rd is predominantly single family.
Miami Beach is denser simply because its an urban city and has been so for decades. In fact, the population was greater than Jax Beach is today, back in 1940 (28,000) and it has declined since it's 1980 peak of 96,000). Strange enough, the majority of its highrises have been built since 1980 and the city has lost 8,500 residents since.
Oh, I wasn't referring to Jax Beach ever resembling Miami Beach in terms of highrise development. Jax Beach couldn't achieve that even if it wanted to. We don't have that type of market or interest from international developers. However, Jax Beach can grow to become a walkable community similar to what the core of Miami Beach is and has historically been.
As for the density, the Miami area in general is much denser than Jacksonville, and Miami Beach is significantly closer to the city center than Jacksonville Beach is. Jacksonville Beach also took longer to grow. I don't remember exactly, but I don't think it hit even 20,000 people until this century.
Quote from: copperfiend on August 02, 2011, 03:19:12 PM
I disagree. Personally, I don't want Jax Beach to be littered with half empty/half built condo towers like Miami, Daytona, Clearwater and other Florida beaches. Jax Beach has some charm. I think they have done a good job of allowing useful and smart developments without sacrificing the reason people like the beach to begin with.
I am impressed with the development off of third that houses the yoga studio and Dick's Wings. Parking on the roof!!
I think Jax Beach's architecture is pretty horrible but that goes for our city in general, with a few exceptions. With that said, I'd love to see more infill development like that Dick's Wings retail center. Anything to make it less autocentric at pedestrian level is good, imo.
Quote from: Tacachale on August 02, 2011, 03:43:01 PM
Neptune even successfully fought of a Wal-Mart. A Wal-Mart.
If only the rest of the city had this kind of thinking.
I could have sworn Walmart actually won that battle and almost bankrupt the city in the process?
Quoteespecially if you can get past that pesky height ordinance the residents pushed through a few years back
Been sounding that horn for awhile, and even city officials are now saying they wish they had more mixed used high density development like the building that houses Chicago Pizza. I was a Jacksonville Beach resident at the time and made a comment at a public meeting stating 'be careful what you wish for'. Ahem well...
QuoteI am impressed with the development off of third that houses the yoga studio and Dick's Wings. Parking on the roof!!
I often site this development in regards to the Park View Inn site in downtown.
However that development was actually meant to have condos above the retail... another high density victim of the height limits.
QuoteIn fact their goverment has made quite an effort to enhance and promote its downtown.
I would agree with you on that very much so. Downtown Jax certainly can learn a lot from Jax Beach. Jax Beach was NOT a great place when I was growing up. However...
QuoteIt doesn't seem like there are a lot of empty lots around.
That is not true. There is a glut of PRIME empty property in Jax Beach. Many projects did not go through(before the bottom fell out) specifically b/c of the height limits. I am actually not totally against height limits in theory(Daytona Beach was the most oft cited referance at all the public debates, not so much South Beach)... however Jax Beach still falls very short of its potential IMO b/c there isn't the type of density a place like say downtown Naples has. You don't have to have 20 story condos to create density, but you have to give some developers the landscape in where high density mixed use developments become profitable(and not just turning a 2 million dollar investment into 2.5 million dollars, the risk of failure is too great for that little of a gain)... otherwise they'll pour their money into communities elsewhere.
QuoteNeptune even successfully fought of a Wal-Mart. A Wal-Mart.
To be fair, that was the Aqua East family that really 'fought off' Wal Mart. Wal Mart technically won but b/c of the backlash Regency properties wound up just making Publix the anchor tenant instead. It's not really too much better than the original site plan for WalMart to be honest, but whatever. Pretty remarkable though that the original owner of Aqua East had the foresight in the 70's to protect their set back limits in the way that they did.
I do love the beaches. I was a Jax Beach and Neptune Beach resident at one time. I always say you have to live at the beach at least once in your life. Your Jacksonville experience is not complete without that IMO. I will buy another place out there eventually again.
Quote from: thelakelander on August 02, 2011, 03:59:11 PM
Quote from: Tacachale on August 02, 2011, 03:43:01 PM
Neptune even successfully fought of a Wal-Mart. A Wal-Mart.
If only the rest of the city had this kind of thinking.
I could have sworn Walmart actually won that battle and almost bankrupt the city in the process?
Neptune did successfully shut them down but you are correct, they almost went bankrupt. However publix moved from the shopping center at the corner of Atlantic and Penman to the shopping center the previously held Scotty's (and I think the indoor flea market after that).
What is the Hotel that was proposed for the SE corner of the Beach Blvd-3rd Street intersection?? The lot is huge. is the project dead or just hibernating??
Quote from: cline on August 02, 2011, 04:12:15 PM
Neptune did successfully shut them down but you are correct, they almost went bankrupt. However publix moved from the shopping center at the corner of Atlantic and Penman to the shopping center the previously held Scotty's (and I think the indoor flea market after that).
Funny thing is I did the preliminary site plan for that Publix shopping center (Seminole Shoppes) at my last job (Regency was the client), not that I'm a fan of the layout. You can lead a horse to water but sometimes they just don't drink and you have to give client what they want and are willing to pay for.
Quote from: Captain Zissou on August 02, 2011, 04:20:44 PM
What is the Hotel that was proposed for the SE corner of the Beach Blvd-3rd Street intersection?? The lot is huge. is the project dead or just hibernating??
Dead.
I should take a picture this Sunday of all the projects killed.
Get ready to spend a full day. I worked in Ponte Vedra when the height limits were put in place and the economy was bustling. There are a ton of them at the beaches that died.
Quote from: cline on August 02, 2011, 04:12:15 PM
Quote from: thelakelander on August 02, 2011, 03:59:11 PM
Quote from: Tacachale on August 02, 2011, 03:43:01 PM
Neptune even successfully fought of a Wal-Mart. A Wal-Mart.
If only the rest of the city had this kind of thinking.
I could have sworn Walmart actually won that battle and almost bankrupt the city in the process?
Neptune did successfully shut them down but you are correct, they almost went bankrupt. However publix moved from the shopping center at the corner of Atlantic and Penman to the shopping center the previously held Scotty's (and I think the indoor flea market after that).
It was a combination of community factors that fended off the Wal-Mart. The first and foremost factor was that residents and neighborhood business owners just didn't want it there (though they wanted something in the spot). Due to the huge outcry the city blocked Wal-Mart's application and then fought it in mediation.
Wal-Mart did win in the mediation, but it's not true it bankrupted the city. Wal-Mart was supposed to pay the city's legal fees; it only didn't pay because it didn't build. It didn't cost the city to fight Wal-Mart; it only cost when Wal-Mart pulled out, which is what everyone wanted. And it's still nothing compared to the amount of tax money that would have been spent on roadwork to handle the traffic a Super Center would have generated. Plus the damage it would have done to small businesses.
Then there was the aforementioned property issue involving Aqua East Surf Shop. Because of the original contract of sale on the property, nothing with its back side facing Aqua East could be built there without duking it out with them. By that time the economy was in the tank, and residents and business owners were still hating on Wal-Mart. Rather than keep going, Wal-Mart finally pulled out. I think it's fair to say the community at various levels was instrumental in there not being a Wal-Mart in Neptune Beach today.
QuoteWal-Mart did win in the mediation, but it's not true it bankrupted the city.
Well it did cost them 100k, which for a city that size is not chump change. But you're right, in the end they don't have a Wal Mart, which is a good thing for that area. Although I would venture to guess that there are quite a few citizens who just drive up Atlantic to the Wal Mart across the bridge at Kernan.
My favorite quote from an editorial was printed during that fight against wal-mart. It was something along the lines of "we don't want Wal-mart coming in here and taking business from the small businesses in the area like the K-mart".
I am still having trouble beleiving Jax beach had more visitors than Ocean City, Miami and Honolulu. Its a good beach, but Ocean City has a world famous boardwalk, Miami is also world known. Do that manay people actually come to Jax beach, when there are really not too manya ttractions and no boardwalk?
It didn't. Miami Beach had 14 million to Jax Beach's 9 million. Also, no ideal what Miami's numbers would look like with the rest of the beaches down there added to it. However, I'm sure it would be many more than the numbers Jax Beach would pick up with the addition of the adjacent beach communities.