This in the TU Blog certainly sets the stage for a good old trip out to the wood shed for JTA. This is just one more in a series of failures over the years and as far as I can see the only common denominator is the planner.
PLEASE HELP OUR FRIENDS OVER AT THE TU GET THE INFORMATION THEY NEED!OCKLAWAHAQuoteLooking for people who use the Kings Avenue Parking garage
Submitted by Larry Hannan on July 19, 2011 - 10:08amOn the Road
The Florida Times-Union is looking for people who use the King Avenue Parking garage on the Southside.
Anyone who wants to comment can contact Times-Union staff writer Larry Hannan at (904) 359-4470 or e-mail him at larry.hannan@jacksonville.com.
This would include people who park in the garage now, and people who used to park. It can also include people who use the garage for sporting events, like Jaguar games.
What do you think of the garage? Do you park there and then take the Skyway to work? Or do you work somewhere on the Southside?
The Times-Union is working on a story about the lack of people using the facility. City Council members have criticized JTA for constructing and running the garage because of the cost of construction, and the fact that the garage has lost money over the ten years it has been operating.
Quote from: Ocklawaha on July 19, 2011, 12:02:55 PM
This in the TU Blog certainly sets the stage for a good old trip out to the wood shed for JTA. This is just one more in a series of failures over the years and as far as I can see the only common denominator is the planner.
PLEASE HELP OUR FRIENDS OVER AT THE TU GET THE INFORMATION THEY NEED!
OCKLAWAHA
QuoteLooking for people who use the Kings Avenue Parking garage
Submitted by Larry Hannan on July 19, 2011 - 10:08amOn the Road
The Florida Times-Union is looking for people who use the King Avenue Parking garage on the Southside.
Anyone who wants to comment can contact Times-Union staff writer Larry Hannan at (904) 359-4470 or e-mail him at larry.hannan@jacksonville.com.
This would include people who park in the garage now, and people who used to park. It can also include people who use the garage for sporting events, like Jaguar games.
What do you think of the garage? Do you park there and then take the Skyway to work? Or do you work somewhere on the Southside?
The Times-Union is working on a story about the lack of people using the facility. City Council members have criticized JTA for constructing and running the garage because of the cost of construction, and the fact that the garage has lost money over the ten years it has been operating.
I'm sorry, but no self-respecting journalist (and I'm not suggesting that Larry Hannan is such), goes into a story with the outcome already decided. When you announce that the FTU is working on a story "about the lack or people using the Kings Ave facility" you've already decided how that story will end - comments and facts be damned. So does anyone give a damn what the FTU reports when this is the kind of reporting it does?
Is the Kings Ave worth evaluating? Maybe. But you go in with a clean slate. Investigate. And report what you find. Well that's what a REAL journalist does. Weak Larry. Just weak.
exnewsman - Assignment: do a story about the Kings Avenue Parking Garage.
How would you frame the story? You certainly can't approach it from the angle that people are frustrated at not finding parking spaces inside. The story about that garage (and others DT) is the lack of use. Maybe by talking to people who use it - if they are positive - maybe more will use it?
Regardless of what people think about the Kings Avenue garage, we already have more parking spaces than people downtown on a daily basis. The abundance of parking is also one of the major things that keeps DT from being pedestrian scale or mass transit from being truly viable. Why are we including over 2,000 more parking garage spaces in the JRTC plan? It's like were sabotaging our own transit investments. Going forward, parking garage money will be better spent being used to upgrade and extend our fixed transit network into areas outside of DT. Because the concept of driving 20 miles to DT to park in a garage 1 mile from your destination, hop on the skyway for 500 to 1,000ft and walk another 500ft to your final destination really doesn't work. If you really want that suburban ridership, you're going to have to get them before they drive through the congestion.
http://jacksonville.com/news/metro/2011-07-20/story/south-jacksonville-parking-garage-struggles-business
How many other parking garages Downtown are mostly empty? I dont think I have ever seen a full one. To me it's more of a symptom than the problem. Point is we do not need any more parking garages built anywhere Downtown for say EVER!
Quote from: Charles Hunter on July 19, 2011, 09:34:39 PM
exnewsman - Assignment: do a story about the Kings Avenue Parking Garage.
How would you frame the story? You certainly can't approach it from the angle that people are frustrated at not finding parking spaces inside. The story about that garage (and others DT) is the lack of use. Maybe by talking to people who use it - if they are positive - maybe more will use it?
As Lake pointed out - we already have more spaces than people downtown. So why then pick out just one facility? Regarding your assignment... how has the addition of the two hotels affected parking at the garage? What about the mixed-use (residential and retail) complex that Mike Balanky (and others) was supposed to build next door to the hotels that never got started after the FDOT announced its I-95 bridge renovations project for San Marco? What were the parking expectations of that project? Why are people willing to pay twice as much at a downtown garage when they could park in Kings Ave and take the Skyway to downtown for a few minutes more?
Perhaps a better story would be why the city subidizes private downtown parking garages to ensure they make a certain percent profit (i.e - the new courthouse garage, the garage at the arena)?
I tend to agree with Charles, you go into the story with common knowledge.
1. We have more parking then we have people
2. The garage is very difficult to access
With that in mind, you do the story and try and answer a few questions.
Why was it ever put in that location knowing in advance there was almost no access?
Since it was built has usage increased, decreased or remained stable?
How are the hotels doing?
What is their vacancy rate?
What is the garages vacancy rate?
Will the new distributor lanes provide an exit to Kings Avenue?
Interviews
Why do you use it?
Is it more convenient then driving to ..... and parking?
Do you feel that it is a well maintined and secure environment?
Do you have a preferred route to get to the garage?
Is one route superior to another? Which?
Do you use the Skyway from the garage?
What do you think we could do to improve its usage?
Just maybe somebody has an answer.
That it has failed is pretty obvious to anyone that has ever tried to get to the place. It should NEVER EVER have been located where it's at. A garage at Atlantic with a full interchange (coming with the overland bridge rebuild) and Skyway access might have provided the frustration relief we sought to avoid downtown and filled the garage.
Hey JTA? I've got a location for you, let's build the next one in Amboy, California... Hey at least its on old route 66 and you can get to it in only 3 days.
(http://members.tripod.com/airfields_freeman/CA/Amboy_CA_02_w.jpg)
Amboy even has an airport!
OCKLAWAHA
Well - here's the story's headline (Today)
Turnaround for struggling South Jacksonville parking garage?
Kings Avenue lot, nearly empty most days, is recovering.
- Not too damning
http://jacksonville.com/news/metro/2011-07-20/story/turnaround-struggling-south-jacksonville-parking-garage
Quote from: exnewsman on July 20, 2011, 09:35:32 AMPerhaps a better story would be why the city subidizes private downtown parking garages to ensure they make a certain percent profit (i.e - the new courthouse garage, the garage at the arena)?
Combine this with "how is such a deal expected to make downtown more pedestrian friendly and viable?" and it would be a great story considering more money is going into subsidizing parking annually then skyway O&M.
Quote from: Ocklawaha on July 20, 2011, 10:07:32 AM
I tend to agree with Charles, you go into the story with common knowledge.
1. We have more parking then we have people
2. The garage is very difficult to access
With that in mind, you do the story and try and answer a few questions.
Why was it ever put in that location knowing in advance there was almost no access?
Since it was built has usage increased, decreased or remained stable?
How are the hotels doing?
What is their vacancy rate?
What is the garages vacancy rate?
Will the new distributor lanes provide an exit to Kings Avenue?
Interviews
Why do you use it?
Is it more convenient then driving to ..... and parking?
Do you feel that it is a well maintined and secure environment?
Do you have a preferred route to get to the garage?
Is one route superior to another? Which?
Do you use the Skyway from the garage?
What do you think we could do to improve its usage?
Just maybe somebody has an answer.
That it has failed is pretty obvious to anyone that has ever tried to get to the place. It should NEVER EVER have been located where it's at. A garage at Atlantic with a full interchange (coming with the overland bridge rebuild) and Skyway access might have provided the frustration relief we sought to avoid downtown and filled the garage.
Hey JTA? I've got a location for you, let's build the next one in Amboy, California... Hey at least its on old route 66 and you can get to it in only 3 days.
(http://members.tripod.com/airfields_freeman/CA/Amboy_CA_02_w.jpg)
Amboy even has an airport!
OCKLAWAHA
Ock - why is this even a story? What's the NEW element to it? Obviously the hotels are generating some parking revenue - that's new. But why THIS garage and why now? Hardly a news story unless your talking about Southbank development or overall downtown parking issues.
The excess of downtown parking is what the commuter rail consultant gave as a potential hindrance to rail ridership.
You have a new and interesting angle and this story lacks one.
I think the angle should be that DT has too much parking already and that we need to find ways to reduce the amount of spaces (instead of adding) if we want a vibrant core.
I think there is a story in this, "Another catastrophic JTA failure - Bring on The JRTC" Same pie-in-the-sky planner only now he's telling us all about mega developers that will souround the JRTC with TOD and fill the former Convention Center Box with a *mixed use development. Under the new mayor, fresh ideas are needed, what would make this white elephant trumpet victoriously?
I'd bounce it off of the new administrations slant on the JRTC and get a byte from someone about the garage failure, Skyway failure etc. Just say'in...
All of your profession aside, is there an answer to this dumb location? How about an access road that has some sort of entry/exit for a quick trip to Kings Avenue? Will the planned Atlantic interchange help? I know we have a rendering somewhere on MJ perhaps we should pop it up and try and figure out what we would/should do. We just can't allow this planning arm of JTA build another disaster, 1, 2, 3 strikes and your out... They've already knocked two over the foul line and are revving up their engine for the MONSTER OF MOBILITY. Might I suggest Amboy as a retirement location for these boys and girls? Don't worry JTA, my cabin is just over that range in the left of that photo... LOL
OCKLAWAHA
Given the state of parking availability in DT, I think its clear that if anything should come out of this, it's the elimination of structured parking at the JRTC. That alone with force the redesign of the JRTC and significantly drop costs.
Quote from: thelakelander on July 20, 2011, 12:35:27 PM
Given the state of parking availability in DT, I think its clear that if anything should come out of this, it's the elimination of structured parking at the JRTC. That alone with force the redesign of the JRTC and significantly drop costs.
How about putting an end to subsizing parking facilities downtown. And make the surface lot owners clean up their property.
I'm cool with that too. Let's do them all.
Politically, how do you overcome the perception of most of Jax that there is a lack of parking DT?
Easy. Better on-street parking, wayfaring and private lot/garage signage in addition to a relaxation with harsh parking enforcement tactics. Two-waying more streets would help reduce the confusion of navigating the area by car as well. After all, people don't come downtown to park. Thus, we need to make this secondary task of visiting downtown as thoughtless and painless as possible.
There is not enough easy or good parking in downtown. Try to find a parking spot near The Landing or the TU Center when there's an event happening and see how fun that is. No, those guys with the $10 event parking signs look like they are trying to rip me off so I'm not parking there! We're going to drive around in circles to find someplace that looks like they offer decent parking and go there. If we have a bad experience with that, no way I'm coming back to DT unless I have to!
Either way, chasing after parking is the wrong thing. If you want a good parking management, ask the people that run the SJTC. Their parking is better than DT.
A better solution would be that people who come to DT don't have to park! Offer them a strong mass transit option so they can leave their cars in the suburbs and ride all the way to DT!
All of this bitching about parking???? This is a big issue with jacksonville....lazy people...everyone wants to park at the front door and not pay a dime...lazy people you are...you all want a metropolitan city yet you have this "i gotta park at the front door or im not coming" mentality...i have never had a parking problem downtown..this is not your house..you've left your house..and no you can't always park at the front door..
If you want a spot near those events and don't want to pay, just park on the Forysth, Julia or Adams Street and walk two or three blocks. That distance is less to the front door of those places than half of spaces at SJTC are to their shops. As for transit into the burbs, that's an entirely different subject but one that also has to be dealt with.
Quote from: Garden guy on July 20, 2011, 04:22:24 PM
All of this bitching about parking???? This is a big issue with jacksonville....lazy people...everyone wants to park at the front door and not pay a dime...lazy people you are...you all want a metropolitan city yet you have this "i gotta park at the front door or im not coming" mentality...i have never had a parking problem downtown..this is not your house..you've left your house..and no you can't always park at the front door..
I don't think people are lazy. They have no problem parking blocks away and walking to the front door of Walmart, Target and SJTC. If placed downtown, Regency Mall would stretch from the river to Union Street. However, very few had a problem walking that distance before Avenues and SJTC opened. You have a perception and a street level "dead space" problem that people continue to ignore and address. Enhance building/retail integration with the sidewalks at street level and making parking in DT less confusing and you'll resolve most of the perceived problem.
Parking is in such abundance downtown (41,000 spaces) that it has prevented what transit we have from attracting "choice riders." Thus one effect on the transit system is to keep it in a position of transporting the impoverished, work release inmates, unskilled labor etc. and that creates a long lived image problem. It can quickly become a chicken and egg proposition as to weather or not to reequip the fleet, give the system a bath, new paint, new image, branding it first, or trying to close the headway gaps, hire new drivers, and double up on routes and services. Rarely is there a system that can afford to do both, and ours gets hobbled by the same bomb that is destroying downtown.
As for laziness and attractiveness, I think both factor in when its pouring down rain or we have clear sky's and 100 degree temperatures. Back in the day, many of our buildings, if not most had some sort of awning that shaded the walks and kept downtown pleasent even in the hottest weather. But then maybe Garden Guy is off his medication again?
OCKLAWAHA
Quote from: Ocklawaha on July 20, 2011, 05:52:10 PM
As for laziness and attractiveness, I think both factor in when its pouring down rain or we have clear sky's and 100 degree temperatures. Back in the day, many of our buildings, if not most had some sort of awning that shaded the walks and kept downtown pleasent even in the hottest weather. But then maybe Garden Guy is off his medication again?
This is how you deal with the elements:
Quote from: thelakelander on July 20, 2011, 04:24:57 PMEnhance building/retail integration with the sidewalks at street level and make parking in DT less confusing and you'll resolve most of the perceived problem.
Enhancing the pedestrian scale environment would involve things like shade trees, awnings, window displays, outdoor seating, etc. Make someone feel comfortable in the environment and they'll have no problem walking a block or two. Don't protect the pedestrian from our extreme natural elements or engage them a pedestrian scale level and they won't walk if they don't have to. It's as simple as that.
If you had to walk a block or two, what environment would you not want to do it in?
Deland:
(http://photos.metrojacksonville.com/photos/1382535622_25GJjpM-M.jpg)
Lakeland:
(http://photos.metrojacksonville.com/photos/944303105_kABRi-M.jpg)
Miami:
(http://photos.metrojacksonville.com/photos/1104791890_MW5e3-M.jpg)
Orlando:
(http://photos.metrojacksonville.com/photos/1138062232_zhcA3-M.jpg)
Jacksonville:
(http://photos.metrojacksonville.com/photos/1142458119_sbrAT-M.jpg)
(http://photos.metrojacksonville.com/photos/1165532296_zDXrD-M.jpg)