Had dinner last night with a friend from Sarasota. He's a prof at New College. He has been at the front of an effort to allow people to have hens in their backyards in Sarasota for the last few years and they have just gotten the County Commission to give them a three year, experimental period for keeping urban hens. He told us about his success.
He named his group, CLUCK, for Citizens Lobbying for Urban Hens. He put together information from all of the cities in the US that allow urban hens, and there are a lot of them including New York, San Francisco, Kansas City, etc.
He was able to answer all of the objections, noise from roosters, smell, rats, loose chickens, slaughter, egg sales with objective experience from the other cities and was politically clever about the public hearings to get his victory for common sense.
Here is a link to their website:
http://sarasotacluck.blogspot.com/ (http://sarasotacluck.blogspot.com/)
There are a lot of "illegal" chicken keepers here in Jacksonville. Wouldn't it be great if we could join the other cities in the country and have our own, fresh, antibiotic, e-coli free eggs?
So let me get this straight. Sarasota, one of the most expensive locales in the state, welcomes chickens. But, somehow, the property-value obsessed social-climbers at SPAR convinced everybody they had to be rounded up and killed in Springfield because they were bad for the neighborhood? I guess I'll start putting in $50k offers on some of those million dollar waterfront houses in Sarasota, since according to SPAR they'll be worthless anyday now that they have those public menace chickens around.
I think it's a great idea.
I also think this is one of the better thread titles I've seen on MJ :)
Sustainable Springfield has been advocating for this too. Not only Sarasota, but MOST cities in the US have amended their codes to allow backyard hens (no roosters) and 2-3 dairy goats, in addition to zoning for community gardens and urban farms.
I posted this on the Springfield Forum the other day - its a Q&A on the entire topic. http://www.myspringfield.org/General/urban-agriculture-q-a-a.html (http://www.myspringfield.org/General/urban-agriculture-q-a-a.html)
I have also asked the urban core CPAC and SPAR for a letter of support, which they are going to discuss at their August Board meeting (my fingers are crossed). I have letters of support from the Childhood Obesity Coalition and Slow Foods First Coast. I have also been in touch with San Marco Preservation and am going to be reaching out to RAP next.
The Planning Dept is open to this the next step is getting city council on board. If you support these efforts (via annual permits, I think is the best strategy) WRITE YOUR CITY COUNCIL rep. You can cc us if you want so we can keep up with all the letters, sustainablespringfield@yahoo.com
We also have a paper and an online petition http://www.thepetitionsite.com/1/pro-hens-and-goats-and-we-vote/ (http://www.thepetitionsite.com/1/pro-hens-and-goats-and-we-vote/)
For those worried about property values, I say look at Seattle, who already amended their code and instead of repealing it because of "decreased property values" they just amended it to allow MORE food producing animals by residents.
An annual permitting process that sets limits on number of animals/lot size is the way most cities do it and ITS WORKING.
This zoning change would not affect communities with deed restrictions, of course.
Sarasota now allows up to four hens (CLUCK wanted six) and they must be kept in the back yard or a single family residence.
Pretty restrictive, but it's a start....a beak under the tent flap?
Someone off of Hendricks Ave near HAB has (or had, anyway, as of a couple years ago) an extremely vocal collection of chickens. I know there was a rooster and a couple hens at least. They were around for awhile so I can't imagine there were too many complaints. I think it'd be great if more people were allowed to keep hens. I wouldn't keep any but I'd buy eggs off my neighbors.
Whatever happened to the chickens that used to roam around MOSH?
We used to have 5 hens at our house in Riverside/Avondale until raccoons got into our coop and killed them all on Monday.
This the second such hit made on our coop and it's inhabitants.
My goal this weekend is to turn our coop into Fort Knox or at least "Raccoon proof" it.
Most cities do not allow roosters because of the noise and they aren't needed for eggs anyway. Hens are generally pretty quiet animals, as are dairy goats (uncastrated males are loud and generally not suitable for city living). I have 8 hens and 2 dairy goats on my 1/2 acre in Springfield and my neighbors love them. The kids come by and feed the goats all the time and try to get them to baaaa, but my goats are pretty quiet.
The only ones who mind my animals are the city, who is trying to make us get rid of them.
We give eggs to all of our neighbors, who are not so well off and probably would not buy organic free range eggs. So we are able to provide them with our overage of organic free range. The hens don't cost us anything. A local brewery gives us spent grain which I mix with whey from the cheese I make from the goats and I feed the girls that every morning. I clipped their wings and they roam the yard during the day and we give them kitchen scraps, which they love too.
They are great pets and have the bonus of being a "pet with benefits"
Those CLUCK folks have a saying about noisy crowing roosters (or hens): If It Crows, It Goes!
Agreeing to a condition as simple as this helped them get their city council approval.
I don't wanna live next to a noisy rooster or goat either! :)
Quote from: avs on July 08, 2011, 11:10:23 AM
The only ones who mind my animals are the city, who is trying to make us get rid of them.
The City just responds to complaints, and those complaints are coming from somewhere. I think we all know where.
SHHHH! Don't admit you have livestock in your garden. Let's just get it legal!
Quote from: Intuition Ale Works on July 08, 2011, 10:55:01 AM
We used to have 5 hens at our house in Riverside/Avondale until raccoons got into our coop and killed them all on Monday.
This the second such hit made on our coop and it's inhabitants.
My goal this weekend is to turn our coop into Fort Knox or at least "Raccoon proof" it.
Having lots of raccoons around is a bad side effect of the well intentioned "cat colonies" of spayed and neutered cats around. The raccoons live off the cat food. The catch, spay, neuter and release programs are gradually reducing the number of feral cats, but our birds are suffering in the meantime.
Real bummer about your chickens.
We have a neighbor who has been feeding some of the clipped ear cats on her front porch. A couple of weeks ago at night while sitting on her porch and talking on her cell phone, she reached down and absently petted one of the cats. The fur felt funny to her and she looked down to discover that she was petting a raccoon.
QuoteThe City just responds to complaints
We have had our animals for quite awhile. Then one day the code inspector was citing the house behind us, you can see directly into our yard from that hous's yard, and the next day we received a citation. I don't mind talking about it because the only way to get the ordinance changed is to talk to people and help educate people on small-scale food prodcing animal keeping.
http://www.myspringfield.org/General/urban-agriculture-q-a-a.html
There is an urban agriculture question and answer by Sustainable Springfield on myspringfield right now. It discusses hens and chickens.
From USAToday:
http://yourlife.usatoday.com/fitness-food/safety/story/2011-08-24/Salmonella-traced-to-backyard-chicken-farms/50128844/1 (http://yourlife.usatoday.com/fitness-food/safety/story/2011-08-24/Salmonella-traced-to-backyard-chicken-farms/50128844/1)
QuoteThe burgeoning trend of keeping chickens and ducklings in backyard farms may have brought a new problem home to roost: infections with salmonella.
By Elizabeth Weise, USA TODAY
Backyard chicken farming has become a popular practice as people try to get closer to food sources.
Twin outbreaks of salmonella linked to chicks and ducklings bought for backyard farms have stricken 92 people in 20 states as of Wednesday, the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC) reports.
The poultry were traced back to a mail-order hatchery in Ohio. The two outbreak strains, salmonella altona and salmonella johannesburg, have sickened 65 and 27 people respectively. Salmonella can cause diarrhea, fever, and abdominal cramps and more serious illness in the young and old.
Raising backyard chickens largely for egg production is a growing urban trend among people who want to get closer to their food, but CDC doctors warn that hobbyists may not realize how common it is for poultry to carry dangerous forms of salmonella.
The outbreak is ongoing and began in late February, says Casey Barton Behravesh, a veterinary epidemiologist with the CDC. The most recent person involved got sick on July 30.
The CDC is especially concerned about this outbreak because about 30% of those infected are children younger than 5.
The hatchery associated with the outbreak, Mount Healthy Hatcheries of Mount Healthy, Ohio, has hired a salmonella expert, and testing has found no illness in its breeder flocks, owner Robert O'Hara says. He says the problem might be at one of his suppliers but he has not been able to conclusively trace it back.
Salmonella is common in chicks, he says. "That's been going on since the beginning of time." What's changed is the number of novices raising chickens. "There's been a giant explosion of backyard flocks and unfortunately some people are raising them in their house for a certain period of time. You just can't do that. They're farm animals; they're not pets. Treat them as such."
He also thinks that children are seeing and handling chicks at feed stores which are selling to urban chicken owners and not washing their hands afterward.
With the growing popularity of urban and backyard chickens, it's important for people to know that live poultry can appear to be perfectly healthy and clean yet could be shedding salmonella.
Behravesh agrees the best way to reduce the risk of illness is to wash hands with soap and water after touching live poultry.
http://yourlife.usatoday.com/fitness-food/safety/story/2011-08-24/Salmonella-traced-to-backyard-chicken-farms/50128844/1 (http://yourlife.usatoday.com/fitness-food/safety/story/2011-08-24/Salmonella-traced-to-backyard-chicken-farms/50128844/1)
I thought this thread was about the University of Delaware football team.
Go Fighting Blue Hens!
I'm more worried about getting deseases from the citizens of this city than poultry...believe me...we carry soo many more deseases to worry about than anything from a chicken...and believe me i've spent enough time with chickens to able to say this....if good practices are kept...all is well...can't say that about humans though...
Tune to "Oh! Susanna"
I was born down south on a chicken farm near Nashville Tennessee
Weren't nobody there, but a sky full of air, 20 million chickens and me
And then one day, I said hey hey, I think I'll do a little LSD
And that was the day, the glorious day, that I set me chickens free.
OCKLAWAHA
Nothing funnier to see than a chicken running...reminds me of the way pheobe ran on "Friends"....just hilarious...
Was out at St Johns Boat Company this morning,Bronson Lamb III place on the river across from Mayport......heard a rooster......was I hearing things??
Sure enough,tucked in the corner of this working waterfront facility is a dandy chicken coop.
www.backyardchickens.com....all the info you need...
Too bad they won't let us be a bit more self-sufficient for those of us who choose not to eat the chemical laced Frankenfood in the supermarkets put there by your friendly neighbor big industrialized agriculture. Yeah, I guess we can go to Whole Foods & pay up the ass for an organic tomato like its some kind of elitist treat, but shouldn't they all be organic??
Cubans can grow their own food on their land (or abandoned land lots they've commandeered), anywhere (doesn't have to be a farm). Can be right in the city. Yeah, they have to give a lot of it to the Gov for distribution so others can eat (it is a communist country after all), but still. The option here would be nice & we could learn a thing or two from them.
It doesn't seem like our governments wants its people to be too far from their teet & wants us all to be reliant on their system for everything we do. There have been a lot of swat team raids lately on people's farms who are selling raw milk, cheeses & other items. I don't know the exact circumstances surrounding them, but they're def doing it.
So in the end, I think they may give us a chicken or two to shut some people up, but they'll never allow people to be 100% self-sustaining like they should. Watch the documentary Food Inc if you haven't already for an eye opener as to why.
Quote from: peestandingup on August 26, 2011, 07:05:39 AM
Too bad they won't let us be a bit more self-sufficient for those of us who choose not to eat the chemical laced Frankenfood in the supermarkets put there by your friendly neighbor big industrialized agriculture. Yeah, I guess we can go to Whole Foods & pay up the ass for an organic tomato like its some kind of elitist treat, but shouldn't they all be organic??
Cubans can grow their own food on their land (or abandoned land lots they've commandeered), anywhere (doesn't have to be a farm). Can be right in the city. Yeah, they have to give a lot of it to the Gov for distribution so others can eat (it is a communist country after all), but still. The option here would be nice & we could learn a thing or two from them.
It takes about 9 minutes to clean a chicken...from the yard to the oven in 14minutes with herbs and potatoes..mmm good....
It doesn't seem like our governments wants its people to be too far from their teet & wants us all to be reliant on their system for everything we do. There have been a lot of swat team raids lately on people's farms who are selling raw milk, cheeses & other items. I don't know the exact circumstances surrounding them, but they're def doing it.
So in the end, I think they may give us a chicken or two to shut some people up, but they'll never allow people to be 100% self-sustaining like they should. Watch the documentary Food Inc if you haven't already for an eye opener as to why.
If you are willing to do the work there are very few yards in jacksonville...other than apartments and condos..that can't be completely self sustaining...I'd be making my own cheese but cows are a bit big for riverside...but other than that i've replaced most all of the plants by veggies and permaculture...add a few bunnies and chicks then you're on your way....how would you like to have a Thyme lawn?...it's a great replacement for grass...
I think it is important to point out too, the outbreak came from a hatchery - this too is a form of industrial farming. It didn't come from healthy hens foraging in a back yard. The hens were infected when they arrived. Too many animals clustered in too close of an area isnt' good and that is where diseases occur. My 8 hens running around my 1/2 acre in Springfield are still way more safe any store bought eggs coming from God only knows where and exposed to God only knows what.
Same goes for my 2 sweet goats and the milk I get from them.
Roosters are legal in Miami, too, BTW
Quote from: avs on August 26, 2011, 08:57:34 AM
I think it is important to point out too, the outbreak came from a hatchery - this too is a form of industrial farming. It didn't come from healthy hens foraging in a back yard. The hens were infected when they arrived. Too many animals clustered in too close of an area isnt' good and that is where diseases occur. My 8 hens running around my 1/2 acre in Springfield are still way more safe any store bought eggs coming from God only knows where and exposed to God only knows what.
Same goes for my 2 sweet goats and the milk I get from them.
Roosters are legal in Miami, too, BTW
You are right about desease coming from battery type breeders...that's why a month of quarentine is good for any bird being introduced to it's new flock..that'll give time to see and clear any problems. Goats?...i need me some goats..lol....what did you say?..you need a few more roosters?....oh i can help you with that...how about a city chicken meet somewhere in jax?...i have'nt met too many keepers...it's nice to know i'm not alone.
There are LOTS of underground hen owners in Jax. I am meeting tons of people who have them. I want to do an underground coop pictorial. With the owners in masks standing next to their coops
That's a great idea...
LOL- Washing your hands is a good practice, even if you have not touched a chicken all day. Not enough people wash their hands, and not enough parents make their children do it, or do it right. My little one LOVEs her chicks and chickens and is the primary care giver (when she is not on vacation). She feeds, waters, a loves them. They sit on her lap and fly up on her shoulder. She gathers their eggs and cooks and eats them. She is also the coop cleaner (again when she is not on vacation!) She has not been sick once, of course she understands she has to wash her hands and stay clean.....you would think this would be common sense!
My hens are confused and seem to think they are parrots, they want to fly up and sit on our shoulders as we walk around...we love them and they give fabulous eggs, enough to share around with our neighbors!
Quote from: Garden guy on August 26, 2011, 08:08:59 AM
Quote from: peestandingup on August 26, 2011, 07:05:39 AM
Too bad they won't let us be a bit more self-sufficient for those of us who choose not to eat the chemical laced Frankenfood in the supermarkets put there by your friendly neighbor big industrialized agriculture. Yeah, I guess we can go to Whole Foods & pay up the ass for an organic tomato like its some kind of elitist treat, but shouldn't they all be organic??
Cubans can grow their own food on their land (or abandoned land lots they've commandeered), anywhere (doesn't have to be a farm). Can be right in the city. Yeah, they have to give a lot of it to the Gov for distribution so others can eat (it is a communist country after all), but still. The option here would be nice & we could learn a thing or two from them.
It takes about 9 minutes to clean a chicken...from the yard to the oven in 14minutes with herbs and potatoes..mmm good....
It doesn't seem like our governments wants its people to be too far from their teet & wants us all to be reliant on their system for everything we do. There have been a lot of swat team raids lately on people's farms who are selling raw milk, cheeses & other items. I don't know the exact circumstances surrounding them, but they're def doing it.
So in the end, I think they may give us a chicken or two to shut some people up, but they'll never allow people to be 100% self-sustaining like they should. Watch the documentary Food Inc if you haven't already for an eye opener as to why.
Have you tried Grassroots in Riverside? They've got organic, including meat without drugs.
I have...great resource and nice people.
Yes I have, Kay. Thank you. And I do like them a lot. I was mostly just using Whole Foods as the example because they're the prominent organic market that most people can relate to. But Grassroots are indeed expensive too. Not because they want to be, but because they have to be. Therein lies the problem.
I guess my point was that those places really shouldn't have to exist at all & that organic (natural foods free from pesticides, hormones, & God knows what else) should just be "the way". So not only is it not "the way", it costs an arm & a leg to actually eat REAL food these days. And to top it off, they won't let most people grow it themselves or have animals, so thats pretty f'ed up.
Giant corporations & big government really does run our lives. Its sad.
You are right about that...mom and pop grocers left us many years ago. My grand parents ran a small river grocery in the 30's and 40's and they were supplied by local growers...those days are long gone and probably will not every come back unless we start valuing things differently. A local small grower can't make any money selling fresh veg when the large corps have the price soo low...how does that change?
Speaking of growing and raising your own organic food in the backyard is not the same as even buying organic food at the local health food store. I shop there for certain items...but getting closer to your food and being ultimately more self sunstainable has nothing to do with the local health food store- good plug though :-)
Try raising and growing your own food- everyone should understand where it comes from and how it is done. It is educational, and cool :-)
Quotehow does that change?
The corps have government subsidies, the prices people pay for "organic" food are higher because small farmers don't get these subsidies. What you pay for food in small groceries like Grassroots is the REAL cost to produce that food, unsubsidized. Not to mention the cost associated with hauling organic tomatoes from California over here so people can eat organic tomatoes year round.
People have to put their money where their mouth is. If we want to eat organic then we have to pay the REAL cost associated with producing the food and/or pressure Washington to subsidize the smaller farmers. An alternative to all of this of course, is to grow our own (zoning laws amended - again, government has to be pressured to act in our interest) and/or purchase food from local farmers at farmer's markets. And when you buy from a farmer's market make sure you are buying from the farmer, not another middle man. There are several middle men still at some of the farmer's markets around town. Ask before you buy. If you buy directly from the farmer you will get a better quality, lower price, and you will be contributing to the local economy and your overall health. Also, open your pallet and eat seasonally. You will get better nutrition and your menu will change with the seasons opening up more creative menues.
I have'nt bought a veg from a store in several years...i can grow just about anything i want but it does upset me so to see these small farms just shutting down because they can't make money...subsidized farming is forcing farmers to grow nothing but corn and fuel crops...it's rediculous...the small guys are the ones that need the help...is'nt subsidizing corn growers like giving tax breaks for a mulitbillion dollar oil comany?....i guess it's the same thing as asking why do we give uneven tax breaks for only the most wealthy...just doesnt make sense...they say it's to help keep things stable but it does'nt and never has...i've got a bit of an attitude about growers who have gave in and take the cash help instead of doing the right thing and actually growing something we can eat.
BTW...i have a serama roo that needs a new home...he's about 3 months old and millefleur....any takers just let me know..
QuoteBTW...i have a serama roo
I guess if you have to ask you wouldn't be interested.
Quoteis'nt subsidizing corn growers like giving tax breaks for a mulitbillion dollar oil comany?
ain't that the truth
There's also another big problem with the system we have in place, and this is something not many people talk about. What if our economy got much worse, spiraled outta control & we fell into a deep dark depression where hyperinflation became so bad that a loaf of bread ended up costing like $10?? And don't say that could never happen. Its happened to all kinds of countries, even big ones. And if we keep going on our path of massive debt & unsustainability, it'll eventually happen to us too. Its just taking longer because we're such a big country & our currency is sorta the global standard.
Anyways, my point is that we'd be total f*cked because no one knows how to grow anything or do anything for themselves. At least during the Great Depression people knew how to take care of themselves, many MANY more things were local, etc. We sure don't have anything like that now.
I say we just get rid of the USDA and the FDA and let consumers buy what they want from whomever they want.
Quote from: urbanlibertarian on August 27, 2011, 12:27:35 PM
I say we just get rid of the USDA and the FDA and let consumers buy what they want from whomever they want.
And let Darwinism have its way?
Quote from: peestandingup on August 27, 2011, 09:44:25 AM
There's also another big problem with the system we have in place, and this is something not many people talk about. What if our economy got much worse, spiraled outta control & we fell into a deep dark depression where hyperinflation became so bad that a loaf of bread ended up costing like $10?? And don't say that could never happen. Its happened to all kinds of countries, even big ones. And if we keep going on our path of massive debt & unsustainability, it'll eventually happen to us too. Its just taking longer because we're such a big country & our currency is sorta the global standard.
Anyways, my point is that we'd be total f*cked because no one knows how to grow anything or do anything for themselves. At least during the Great Depression people knew how to take care of themselves, many MANY more things were local, etc. We sure don't have anything like that now.
You are right..we have a population who does'nt even what to touch dirt much less grow something. We have gone from 40% of our workforce having something or other to do with agriculture in the 30's and 40's to about 4% today. Large corporations have taken our food source and ruined it. Our cities have defunded public education so ag is'nt even taught in any schools...much less shop class. Yes...our population is completely unprepared to help itself as far as growing its own food. And oh..btw... Anyone with true Araucana out there?
QuoteAnyone with true Araucana out there
I have 3 Americanas, part Araucana. The interesting thing about those birds is that they won't lay in factory-like conditions. They HAVE to be outside in sunshine to lay. That is why blue/green eggs have never been commercialized - they can't be. But that is also how you know you are getting a truly free-ranged egg :)
I have an Araucana....she lays beautiful Blue eggs and quite tasty too. She is one of the prettiest birds we have.
we went to see the bee lady today too, it was fabulous. She has hundreds of thousands of bees, we tasted several different honey and honey combs, we had homemade honey dressing that was fantastic, and some home made mead that could curl you hair. We are going back for classes and she said she will be harvesting honey and honey comb next week and we are invited...I cannot wait to take these classes, raise my own bees, and make mead '-)
Bee keeping is awesome..it's pretty easy. With a bit of reading anyone can do it. It's not an expensive hobby at all and we have a great suipplier right here in jax...i just pulled about 40 lbs last week...have'nt made mead yet but what fun.
We put a hive in at the community garden this past spring. They spent most of the season building their brood and just in the past few weeks moved up into the first honey super. Hoping to get some honey in a few weeks!