With the passage of the New York Marriage Equality Act, the number of gay couples in the U.S. who are eligible to marry has now doubled. Approximately 9 million Americans are lesbian, gay, bisexual, or transgender (LGBT) -- slightly less than four percent of the population, according a recent study by Gary Gates of UCLA's Williams Institute. Approximately half of lesbians and gay men are members of same-sex couples, including an estimated 160,000 who are married, according to Gates' research. Nearly one in five same-sex couple households are raising children, compared to about 45 percent of heterosexual couple households, according to figures from the American Community Survey (ACS).
The list below, drawn from Gates' analysis of data from the ACS, shows the 15 metros that have the largest percentage of same-sex couples raising children under 18 years of age. The densest concentrations of such families are not necessarily in the places where you'd expect to find them. Especially surprising are the metros that don't make the cut -- like San Francisco and New York.
(http://www.creativeclass.com/creative_class/_wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2011/06/samesex.png)
http://www.theatlantic.com/national/archive/2011/06/top-metros-for-same-sex-couples-with-children/241113/?&utm_content=Google+Reader
Interesting. The New York Times reported on this in January.
http://www.nytimes.com/2011/01/19/us/19gays.html
Another interesting note is that same-sex couples raising children are more common in Southern states than elsewhere in the country. This is especially true of Florida, and even more especially true of Jacksonville. Additionally, the community is much more diverse than the stereotype suggests; black and Hispanic couples are twice as likely to be raising children as white couples.
Also interesting is the note that Jacksonville in particular is attractive to gay couples with children because of the proliferation of gay-friendly churches.
Hopefully Alvin Brown will step up and help pass the Human Rights Ordinance giving Jacksonville's gay and lesbian taxpaying citizens long-delayed equal footing. Did you know that in 2011, a person can be kicked out of a restaurant, bar or hotel in Duval County just because they are gay? Jacksonville's religious extremists have kept us way behind the eight ball on this one compared to other Florida cities. Alvin Brown had the gay community's full support, now lets see him return the favor.
http://eqfl.org/jaxequality/
Those talks are ongoing, ubben. A meeting last night laid out the strategy for getting from here to there.
The Mayor will need to hear from the community - the whole community - on this issue. We'll need 10 votes in the Council to send it to the Mayor for his signature.
I don't expect that much other than the budget will get the attention of the Council before October.
Quote from: finehoe on June 29, 2011, 02:29:54 PM
With the passage of the New York Marriage Equality Act, the number of gay couples in the U.S. who are eligible to marry has now doubled. Approximately 9 million Americans are lesbian, gay, bisexual, or transgender (LGBT) -- slightly less than four percent of the population, according a recent study by Gary Gates of UCLA's Williams Institute. Approximately half of lesbians and gay men are members of same-sex couples, including an estimated 160,000 who are married, according to Gates' research. Nearly one in five same-sex couple households are raising children, compared to about 45 percent of heterosexual couple households, according to figures from the American Community Survey (ACS).
The list below, drawn from Gates' analysis of data from the ACS, shows the 15 metros that have the largest percentage of same-sex couples raising children under 18 years of age. The densest concentrations of such families are not necessarily in the places where you'd expect to find them. Especially surprising are the metros that don't make the cut -- like San Francisco and New York.
(http://www.creativeclass.com/creative_class/_wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2011/06/samesex.png)
http://www.theatlantic.com/national/archive/2011/06/top-metros-for-same-sex-couples-with-children/241113/?&utm_content=Google+Reader
Yet another list Jacksonville should not be proud to be near the top of.
This is a great thing for our city to be associated with. As long as children are being loved and taken care of, our society should embrace whomever takes care of them.. Good for Jacksonville and hopefully a sign for things to come. More diversity, more acceptance and more celebration of differnces!
Best
This is actually great for Jacksonville. Growing up here, especially in the 80's and early 90's, being openly gay was well accepted here. Fast forward 30 years later, is nothing to see a gay couple walking in the mall, at the store, or down the street holding hands. As quiet as its kept, there is a enormous number of gay citizens in this city. Alot of them stay in the closet or are "dl" because they are afraid of not being accepted. Its past time for us to embrace diversity and stop beating everyone up with religion.
To me Jacksonville is one of the most gay-hostile cities, but that's just me. I suspect that we are at the top of the list for a variety of reasons:
a) Big family town no matter who you are and where you are in the town
b) There isn't really a "gay scene" so what else do you have to do?
c) Lots of guys with pre-marriages, kids, and then coming out of the closet...so a good chunk of these kids could be "baggage" because the man didn't feel comfortable being gay from the start
d) Super conservative city where if you don't have kids by the time you're 25 you're kind of considered odd...I guess even if you're gay LoL
In fact I don't really see any "gay" cities on the list. They are all kind of gay-hostile places not known for having large gay populations or scenes. Atlanta is in the deep south and it is not on the list. Oklahoma City is on the list. That should tell you something right there. It's not that gays don't want to have kids, but it's not like a traditional thing to do. I mean a third of gay couples have kids? That's a significant number. They should do formal studies on why so many of these couples in these cities have kids and what age they are and where they are from because if the reason is purely because they got past the partying stage, got married, and then adopted or had surrogacies then that would be one thing but if there is a story or the kids are "baggage" then that would explain it.
IT's all good now for those wanting children in this state...my partner and i tried for years to go through the state to adopt but our relationship was noted and we were turned down many times..this state and city has been so backward for so many years...now that im older and a bit wornout...kids are fading out of the picture i guess...good luck to all gay parents out there....we're jealous and it's really hard to believe that this state will allow gays to adopt. Three cheers for gay rights in the south.
Jacksonville is definitely changing. In the African American community, being gay is definitely frowned upon. However, over the past few years I have seen surge in straight urban clubs allowing us to use their club for a "gay" night. Which completely baffles me because 20 years ago that would not have happen. It has very successful, at the Skyline on Norwood avenue in particular. Friday's are their busiest nights.
Quote from: duvaldude08 on June 30, 2011, 09:17:46 AM
Jacksonville is definitely changing. In the African American community, being gay is definitely frowned upon. However, over the past few years I have seen surge in straight urban clubs allowing us to use their club for a "gay" night. Which completely baffles me because 20 years ago that would not have happen. It has very successful, at the Skyline on Norwood avenue in particular. Friday's are their busiest nights.
I'm your average white guy, but I work closely with the African American community on several projects in an artistic capacity. What I've noticed is that old prejudices fall by the wayside when people realize there's money to be made. I remember one person I was working with made an off-color comment and I replied, "you know, gay money spends just as well as straight money." Never heard another word from them about it after that.
Maybe not the most noble of reasons to open one's mind, but whatever it takes, right?
Quote from: Bativac on June 30, 2011, 09:39:50 AM
Quote from: duvaldude08 on June 30, 2011, 09:17:46 AM
Jacksonville is definitely changing. In the African American community, being gay is definitely frowned upon. However, over the past few years I have seen surge in straight urban clubs allowing us to use their club for a "gay" night. Which completely baffles me because 20 years ago that would not have happen. It has very successful, at the Skyline on Norwood avenue in particular. Friday's are their busiest nights.
I'm your average white guy, but I work closely with the African American community on several projects in an artistic capacity. What I've noticed is that old prejudices fall by the wayside when people realize there's money to be made. I remember one person I was working with made an off-color comment and I replied, "you know, gay money spends just as well as straight money." Never heard another word from them about it after that.
Maybe not the most noble of reasons to open one's mind, but whatever it takes, right?
EXACTLY!! I think they finally realize money is money and its kind of like "they are gay, but what the hell theyre not bothering me." Club Christophers has a gay night on Monday as well. It started like two months ago.
Quote from: simms3 on June 30, 2011, 07:30:08 AM
To me Jacksonville is one of the most gay-hostile cities, but that's just me. I suspect that we are at the top of the list for a variety of reasons:
a) Big family town no matter who you are and where you are in the town
b) There isn't really a "gay scene" so what else do you have to do?
c) Lots of guys with pre-marriages, kids, and then coming out of the closet...so a good chunk of these kids could be "baggage" because the man didn't feel comfortable being gay from the start
d) Super conservative city where if you don't have kids by the time you're 25 you're kind of considered odd...I guess even if you're gay LoL
In fact I don't really see any "gay" cities on the list. They are all kind of gay-hostile places not known for having large gay populations or scenes. Atlanta is in the deep south and it is not on the list. Oklahoma City is on the list. That should tell you something right there. It's not that gays don't want to have kids, but it's not like a traditional thing to do. I mean a third of gay couples have kids? That's a significant number. They should do formal studies on why so many of these couples in these cities have kids and what age they are and where they are from because if the reason is purely because they got past the partying stage, got married, and then adopted or had surrogacies then that would be one thing but if there is a story or the kids are "baggage" then that would explain it.
Well, it is a formal study, and it does discuss those things. The great thing about it is that it challenges a lot of stereotypes about gay people and where they live (including the stereotypes you mention). It challenges the idea that gays are mostly white, well-to-do, and live mostly in "gay cities" in the Northeast or California.
According to the report, gay black and Hispanic couples are twice as likely to be raising children than whites. Additionally, a large portion of children of gay couples are the product of an earlier heterosexual relationship. It's not a stretch to think that growing up going to church is an influence on this, especially churches that are particularly unfriendly to homosexuality, as many Southern churches are (and perhaps especially churches in minority communities).
There are other reasons as well. Gay men that have children, have them at an earlier age than do straight men, and demographics are changing; there are simply a higher proportion of blacks and Hispanics than in previous decades.
As for Jacksonville in particular, I'd imagine it's just got the right mix of traits. It's got the Southern element and a very large minority community, which may influence the phenomenon as I said above. But being in Florida it also has a lot of transplants and diversity, and therefore a strong moderate streak as well, which may make it an attraction. Most of the other Southern cities on that list are similar in that way.
Plus, as you say, it's a good family town for anyone. The NYT names community programs and churches that cater to gay couples raising families as attractions.
This is encouraging, but there's still a LOT more to do. It's depressing to think that there are families out there that are restricted from adoption and receiving full health care benefits by state law.
Quote from: Yossarianlives on June 29, 2011, 07:36:59 PM
This is a great thing for our city to be associated with. As long as children are being loved and taken care of, our society should embrace whomever takes care of them.. Good for Jacksonville and hopefully a sign for things to come. More diversity, more acceptance and more celebration of differences!
Absolutely agree.
This is a great category for Jacksonville to be number two in, and really dispels a lot of negative stereotypes people have about the city.
There is, of course, still much work to be done though.
Right! First we need to update our Human Rights Ordinance! That would be the first step. LOL
Yes, we've become conspicuous in our lack of inclusion in our Human Rights Ordinance. I mean, Volusia county just surpassed us.
Daytona Beach is more inclusive and welcoming than Jacksonville. This fall we have to address that. It would be great to have the support of everyone here, and of MetroJacksonville, as we work on it. Obviously we're expecting some vocal opposition from some segments of the community. But luckily big business is onboard. We'd like to have support from the Chamber, DVI, MetroJacksonville, all the big community players.
Even our gays are breeders.
It's how we do it in the south!
Quote from: buckethead on June 30, 2011, 02:50:09 PM
Even our gays are breeders.
It's how we do it in the south!
Yess! Bisexuals are always breeding. Male and Female :D
Quote from: stephendare on June 29, 2011, 07:24:18 PM
Quote from: RMHoward on June 29, 2011, 07:14:25 PM
Quote from: finehoe on June 29, 2011, 02:29:54 PM
With the passage of the New York Marriage Equality Act, the number of gay couples in the U.S. who are eligible to marry has now doubled. Approximately 9 million Americans are lesbian, gay, bisexual, or transgender (LGBT) -- slightly less than four percent of the population, according a recent study by Gary Gates of UCLA's Williams Institute. Approximately half of lesbians and gay men are members of same-sex couples, including an estimated 160,000 who are married, according to Gates' research. Nearly one in five same-sex couple households are raising children, compared to about 45 percent of heterosexual couple households, according to figures from the American Community Survey (ACS).
The list below, drawn from Gates' analysis of data from the ACS, shows the 15 metros that have the largest percentage of same-sex couples raising children under 18 years of age. The densest concentrations of such families are not necessarily in the places where you'd expect to find them. Especially surprising are the metros that don't make the cut -- like San Francisco and New York.
(http://www.creativeclass.com/creative_class/_wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2011/06/samesex.png)
http://www.theatlantic.com/national/archive/2011/06/top-metros-for-same-sex-couples-with-children/241113/?&utm_content=Google+Reader
Yet another list Jacksonville should not be proud to be near the top of.
Quite the contrary, although Im sure there are a few old bigots who feel otherwise.
Quite the contrary Stevie. Believing in man-woman unions raising children does not make you a bigot, it places you in agreement with the vast majority of Americans. This is similar to your slanted belief that when anyone disagrees with Obama, he must be a racist. You are predictably quick to call folks who disagree with you and your beliefs names like bigot, racist, etc. Its what you and your kind do.
I don't think opposing marriage equality makes you bigot. But it does put you in the minority, at least as far as the latest opinion polls go. Opposition to such marriages fall off at younger ages. Demographics are destiny = marriage equality will be a reality within the next decade or two, tops, throughout the whole United States.
RM, what's your view on single parents raising kids?
Yeah, it's great to see the tide turning so resoundingly. In just a few decades, this country has taken enormous steps towards real equality. Naturally there are bitter holdouts who resent losing their battle to discriminate--as seen by the small-minded posts that pop up here from time to time. But their temper tantrums seem almost lost in all the good news. We are closer than ever to living in a country where 'all men are created equal.' There's work to do to be sure, but there's no turning back now. High Fives all around to the men and women on Metrojax who believe in freedom and equality!
Quote from: RMHoward on June 30, 2011, 04:02:37 PM
Its what you and your kind do.
Stereotyping immediately after chastising someone for stereotyping is called hypocrisy. That and your little factoid on the "vast majority of Americans" is...not an overstatement...what's the word? A falsehood.
Religious conservatives are going to have to get used to being in the minority on this one.
As others have said, more Americans are for gay marriage than are against it. This finding was confirmed by at least four independent polls so far this year. The proportion has grown every year; don't expect it to get any smaller in the future.
http://pollingreport.com/civil.htm
Gay marriage is currently legal in six states and DC. Twelve more have some level of recognition and benefits for same-sex unions (including several that have civil unions that have the same rights). Of course many states have banned gay marriage, and some, including Florida, have banned all kinds of same-sex unions. But due to the various constitutional issues this brings up, don't expect it to last forever before the Supreme Court takes it up. And many will probably be repealed by state legislatures and referendums before that.
Before long we're going to be living in a country where gay unions are both legal and widely accepted by an easy majority of the public. It will be interesting to see how religious conservatives are going to deal with this.
Quote from: Tacachale on June 30, 2011, 01:58:14 PM
Well, it is a formal study, and it does discuss those things. The great thing about it is that it challenges a lot of stereotypes about gay people and where they live (including the stereotypes you mention). It challenges the idea that gays are mostly white, well-to-do, and live mostly in "gay cities" in the Northeast or California.
I have never heard of these notions that the gay community is wealthy and white. It's no secret that the AA community is less than friendly toward their own people if they are gay, but the big cities with large gay populations have extremely diverse gay scenes. Don't get up to Atlanta or DC much, eh? Also well to do? Ironically for not raising kids there are a lot of less than well to do gay guys. The only cities where I have heard of or met extremely wealthy gay men (who all know each other and travel with each other btw) are Miami/So FL, Atlanta to a smaller extent, New York, Chicago, and LA. And believe it not the only major gay cities in the NE are New York, Philly, and DC. Of course smaller coastal towns are very gay friendly and so is Providence, RI, but Boston and other cities aren't big with the gays.
And here in Atlanta which is still one of the largest gay cities (but shrinking), a lot of guys are moving to Chicago, DC, or New York. I know only one guy who wants to downsize to Birmingham or Charleston, but the traditionally gay cities are growing their gay populations (all except for Atlanta I guess :() and the smaller cities have always exported their gay guys to the large gay cities. There is no misunderstood notion that smaller cities don't have huge gay populations because they don't. When you visit a large area and see that 40% of the people (guys and girls...though guys are more city and girls are more suburban) are gay, then you'll realize that you are in a real gay ghetto. There are parts of Midtown Atlanta (like whole high rise buildings and housing sections where the population is 70-80% gay). Gay restaurants, gay coffee shops, gay bars, gay clubs, gay spas, gay gyms, gay realties, gay doctors (my doctor that I see has a practice with 5 other doctors, including a woman, and they are all gay), gay everything. When Jacksonville has a Pride attended by at least 100,000 people and the mayor and city council participate, then you can say a smaller city like Jacksonville has a large gay presence and embraces gay culture (or at least that side of it heh).
Quotebig·ot [big-uht]
â€"noun
a person who is intolerant of any differing creed, belief, or opinion.
Decide for yourselves if the shoe fits.
Quote from: finehoe on July 01, 2011, 08:10:30 AM
Quotebig·ot [big-uht]
â€"noun
a person who is intolerant of any differing creed, belief, or opinion.
Decide for yourselves if the shoe fits.
That's the definition for "progressive"!
QuoteReligious conservatives are going to have to get used to being in the minority on this one.
Not sure if them's the facts, Ma'am.
I also don't think it is relevant whether the majority of people believes in equal protection under the law.
It would be nice to get more people on board with that particular notion, however.
Quote from: buckethead on July 01, 2011, 08:11:46 AM
That's the definition for "progressive"!
And that^ is the definition of idiotic.
This is the definition of progressive: favoring or advocating progress, change, improvement, or reform, as opposed to wishing to maintain things as they are, especially in political matters
Conservative, by definition: disposed to preserve existing conditions, institutions, etc., or to restore traditional ones, and to limit change
One embraces change and difference, one does not. You simply have it backwards. Variety is the spice of life.
Quote from: Jimmy on June 30, 2011, 04:08:32 PM
I don't think opposing marriage equality makes you bigot. But it does put you in the minority, at least as far as the latest opinion polls go. Opposition to such marriages fall off at younger ages. Demographics are destiny = marriage equality will be a reality within the next decade or two, tops, throughout the whole United States.
Because my generation and the younger generations before that grew up with our gay friends because we understand and love them.
This is the key to the social changes lies in the future generation.-Josh
Quote from: wsansewjs on July 01, 2011, 10:08:49 AM
Quote from: Jimmy on June 30, 2011, 04:08:32 PM
I don't think opposing marriage equality makes you bigot. But it does put you in the minority, at least as far as the latest opinion polls go. Opposition to such marriages fall off at younger ages. Demographics are destiny = marriage equality will be a reality within the next decade or two, tops, throughout the whole United States.
Because my generation and the younger generations before that grew up with our gay friends because we understand and love them.
This is the key to the social changes lies in the future generation.
-Josh
Not to be callous - but some of us don't "support" gay marriage so much as we don't think it's any of the government's business. It's basically a legal agreement between two consenting adults. The government should have no say-so in it, just as they should have no say-so in which race or ethnic group uses which water fountain, goes to which school, etc. We're not going to be marching in any parades or anything but we don't think it's the government's place to make it legal or illegal - it's two adults of sound mind entering an agreement and there should be no restrictions on it.
There is always going to be a large segment of the population who disagrees with homosexuality, who thinks it's wrong, disgusting, immoral, whatever - and that's fine. It's their right to think so. Just like it was my dead grandmother's right to hate black people. But the government should not have any distinctions in place between straight people, gay people, white people, black people, etc. and how those people decide to live.
I think a lot of us younger folks are a lot less inclined to get involved with people's personal lives. It's less "wave your freak flag high!!" and more "Who cares what those people are doing? Are they paying taxes? Then leave 'em alone!"
Quote from: Bativac on July 01, 2011, 10:46:00 AM
Quote from: wsansewjs on July 01, 2011, 10:08:49 AM
Quote from: Jimmy on June 30, 2011, 04:08:32 PM
I don't think opposing marriage equality makes you bigot. But it does put you in the minority, at least as far as the latest opinion polls go. Opposition to such marriages fall off at younger ages. Demographics are destiny = marriage equality will be a reality within the next decade or two, tops, throughout the whole United States.
Because my generation and the younger generations before that grew up with our gay friends because we understand and love them.
This is the key to the social changes lies in the future generation.
-Josh
Not to be callous - but some of us don't "support" gay marriage so much as we don't think it's any of the government's business. It's basically a legal agreement between two consenting adults. The government should have no say-so in it, just as they should have no say-so in which race or ethnic group uses which water fountain, goes to which school, etc. We're not going to be marching in any parades or anything but we don't think it's the government's place to make it legal or illegal - it's two adults of sound mind entering an agreement and there should be no restrictions on it.
There is always going to be a large segment of the population who disagrees with homosexuality, who thinks it's wrong, disgusting, immoral, whatever - and that's fine. It's their right to think so. Just like it was my dead grandmother's right to hate black people. But the government should not have any distinctions in place between straight people, gay people, white people, black people, etc. and how those people decide to live.
I think a lot of us younger folks are a lot less inclined to get involved with people's personal lives. It's less "wave your freak flag high!!" and more "Who cares what those people are doing? Are they paying taxes? Then leave 'em alone!"
I never said anything about gay marriages. I was simply saying that the young generations are already accustomed and are already used to have their LGBT peers. When you have an entire generation completely influenced directly or indirectly, you already have a new social mold that is ready to push the old society out and put the new one in.
Quote from: Bativac on July 01, 2011, 10:46:00 AM
Quote from: wsansewjs on July 01, 2011, 10:08:49 AM
Quote from: Jimmy on June 30, 2011, 04:08:32 PM
I don't think opposing marriage equality makes you bigot. But it does put you in the minority, at least as far as the latest opinion polls go. Opposition to such marriages fall off at younger ages. Demographics are destiny = marriage equality will be a reality within the next decade or two, tops, throughout the whole United States.
Because my generation and the younger generations before that grew up with our gay friends because we understand and love them.
This is the key to the social changes lies in the future generation.
-Josh
Not to be callous - but some of us don't "support" gay marriage so much as we don't think it's any of the government's business. It's basically a legal agreement between two consenting adults. The government should have no say-so in it, just as they should have no say-so in which race or ethnic group uses which water fountain, goes to which school, etc. We're not going to be marching in any parades or anything but we don't think it's the government's place to make it legal or illegal - it's two adults of sound mind entering an agreement and there should be no restrictions on it.
There is always going to be a large segment of the population who disagrees with homosexuality, who thinks it's wrong, disgusting, immoral, whatever - and that's fine. It's their right to think so. Just like it was my dead grandmother's right to hate black people. But the government should not have any distinctions in place between straight people, gay people, white people, black people, etc. and how those people decide to live.
I think a lot of us younger folks are a lot less inclined to get involved with people's personal lives. It's less "wave your freak flag high!!" and more "Who cares what those people are doing? Are they paying taxes? Then leave 'em alone!"
Very well said.
Could not agree more.
Quote from: simms3 on July 01, 2011, 08:10:18 AM
Quote from: Tacachale on June 30, 2011, 01:58:14 PM
Well, it is a formal study, and it does discuss those things. The great thing about it is that it challenges a lot of stereotypes about gay people and where they live (including the stereotypes you mention). It challenges the idea that gays are mostly white, well-to-do, and live mostly in "gay cities" in the Northeast or California.
I have never heard of these notions that the gay community is wealthy and white. It's no secret that the AA community is less than friendly toward their own people if they are gay, but the big cities with large gay populations have extremely diverse gay scenes. Don't get up to Atlanta or DC much, eh? Also well to do? Ironically for not raising kids there are a lot of less than well to do gay guys. The only cities where I have heard of or met extremely wealthy gay men (who all know each other and travel with each other btw) are Miami/So FL, Atlanta to a smaller extent, New York, Chicago, and LA. And believe it not the only major gay cities in the NE are New York, Philly, and DC. Of course smaller coastal towns are very gay friendly and so is Providence, RI, but Boston and other cities aren't big with the gays.
And here in Atlanta which is still one of the largest gay cities (but shrinking), a lot of guys are moving to Chicago, DC, or New York. I know only one guy who wants to downsize to Birmingham or Charleston, but the traditionally gay cities are growing their gay populations (all except for Atlanta I guess :() and the smaller cities have always exported their gay guys to the large gay cities. There is no misunderstood notion that smaller cities don't have huge gay populations because they don't. When you visit a large area and see that 40% of the people (guys and girls...though guys are more city and girls are more suburban) are gay, then you'll realize that you are in a real gay ghetto. There are parts of Midtown Atlanta (like whole high rise buildings and housing sections where the population is 70-80% gay). Gay restaurants, gay coffee shops, gay bars, gay clubs, gay spas, gay gyms, gay realties, gay doctors (my doctor that I see has a practice with 5 other doctors, including a woman, and they are all gay), gay everything. When Jacksonville has a Pride attended by at least 100,000 people and the mayor and city council participate, then you can say a smaller city like Jacksonville has a large gay presence and embraces gay culture (or at least that side of it heh).
The stereotypes thing are what the NYT and the report said. At any rate it's clearly a misconception that gay people primarily live in "gay cities". There are of course cities with large gay communities, and that are gay-friendly, but not everyone lives in those places.
These statistics are specifically on gay couples raising families. It doesn't say that these cities have larger gay communities than other places do, only that within their gay communities, a higher percentage of them are raising children. That's another stereotype this report destroys - that gays are trying to undermine the traditional family. Hard to argue that, when a statistically significant number of them are raising families.
The report is clear that child-rearing by same-sex couples is significantly more common in the South than it is in other parts of the country, and that Jacksonville has a higher number than any other city besides San Antonio. The reasons for this aside, these families deserve the support of open-minded people in their communities.
Quote from: Tacachale on July 01, 2011, 12:22:21 PM
These statistics are specifically on gay couples raising families. It doesn't say that these cities have larger gay communities than other places do, only that within their gay communities, a higher percentage of them are raising children. That's another stereotype this report destroys - that gays are trying to undermine the traditional family. Hard to argue that, when a statistically significant number of them are raising families.
The report is clear that child-rearing by same-sex couples is significantly more common in the South than it is in other parts of the country, and that Jacksonville has a higher number than any other city besides San Antonio. The reasons for this aside, these families deserve the support of open-minded people in their communities.
I really think it's more common here for the same reasons I mentioned in my earlier post - live and let live.
I think more and more people - younger people, especially, but some older folks as well - are just less inclined to care what someone else is doing, as long as it's not hurting anyone. Two dudes are raising a kid? That's cool, are they maintaining their yard? Not playing loud music at 2 in the morning? Cool.
The media plays up the protests, and the pride parades, but I really think the vast majority of gay people are like the vast majority of everyone else - politically moderate and just wanting to live their lives and be left alone. That has something to do with why Jax is so high on this list, I think - Jacksonville is exactly the type of place where you can get a decent single family home at a fairly reasonable price and be left alone (as long as you maintain your yard and keep the music at a reasonable volume). People might whisper about you or crack jokes at your expense but they aren't (aside from a few busybodies) gonna rally the city council to "run them gays outa' town."
Honestly Jacksonville have became alot more gay friendly than it was 20 years ago. You will always have you ignorant folks that make rude comments, but for the most part Jacksonville is very laid back and really dont care what the other person is doing. Now in the Afirican Amercian community its a different story. My culture preaches STRONGLY against homosexuality, thus making things a little worse for us. But even within our community, as I stated early, we are finally becoming more open mided to same sex relationships well.
duvaldude, I think you hit the nail on the head there. To the extent possible, we need to encourage lgbt people of color to come out and be in dialogue with their faith leaders. It is getting better, but there is a lot more potential there for increased tolerance and understanding.
Quote from: Jimmy on July 01, 2011, 01:09:39 PM
duvaldude, I think you hit the nail on the head there. To the extent possible, we need to encourage lgbt people of color to come out and be in dialogue with their faith leaders. It is getting better, but there is a lot more potential there for increased tolerance and understanding.
I totally agree. I think sometimes Christians take th wrong approach. I been a devoted chrisitian my entire life, however I do NOT agree with alot of things. We tend to preach AT people and tell them what they are doing wrong, and that they are going to hell. Versus embracing and letting them know that they are loved, and show them the right way. Even if they decide not to change, atleast there is not any tension or divison amoungst us. At the end of the day, we have to life on this earth together, why not make it a pleasent experience?
Quote from: buckethead on July 01, 2011, 08:11:46 AM
QuoteReligious conservatives are going to have to get used to being in the minority on this one.
Not sure if them's the facts, Ma'am.
I also don't think it is relevant whether the majority of people believes in equal protection under the law.
It would be nice to get more people on board with that particular notion, however.
Them's the facts already; they're already in the minority on this issue. Currently more people are in favor of recognizing same-sex unions than are against it, and the number grows every year, especially among the younger generation. The two sides are close now, but ten years down the road, that won't be the picture. That combined with the fact that the Supreme Court is going to have to weigh in on the states' anti-gay-marriage amendments and the Defense of Marriage Act sooner or later, it's a hard rain a gonna fall.
Quote from: PeeJayEss on July 01, 2011, 09:52:50 AM
Quote from: buckethead on July 01, 2011, 08:11:46 AM
That's the definition for "progressive"!
And that^ is the definition of idiotic.
This is the definition of progressive: favoring or advocating progress, change, improvement, or reform, as opposed to wishing to maintain things as they are, especially in political matters
Conservative, by definition: disposed to preserve existing conditions, institutions, etc., or to restore traditional ones, and to limit change
One embraces change and difference, one does not. You simply have it backwards. Variety is the spice of life.
QuoteProgressiveâ€"noun
a person who is intolerant of any differing creed, belief, or opinion.Quote
See!
Another word to add to the repertiore: Misnomer
Quote from: Jimmy on June 30, 2011, 04:08:32 PM
I don't think opposing marriage equality makes you bigot.
I disagree.
Quote from: KenFSU on July 01, 2011, 11:05:58 AM
Quote from: Bativac on July 01, 2011, 10:46:00 AM
Quote from: wsansewjs on July 01, 2011, 10:08:49 AM
Quote from: Jimmy on June 30, 2011, 04:08:32 PM
I don't think opposing marriage equality makes you bigot. But it does put you in the minority, at least as far as the latest opinion polls go. Opposition to such marriages fall off at younger ages. Demographics are destiny = marriage equality will be a reality within the next decade or two, tops, throughout the whole United States.
Because my generation and the younger generations before that grew up with our gay friends because we understand and love them.
This is the key to the social changes lies in the future generation.
-Josh
Not to be callous - but some of us don't "support" gay marriage so much as we don't think it's any of the government's business. It's basically a legal agreement between two consenting adults. The government should have no say-so in it, just as they should have no say-so in which race or ethnic group uses which water fountain, goes to which school, etc. We're not going to be marching in any parades or anything but we don't think it's the government's place to make it legal or illegal - it's two adults of sound mind entering an agreement and there should be no restrictions on it.
There is always going to be a large segment of the population who disagrees with homosexuality, who thinks it's wrong, disgusting, immoral, whatever - and that's fine. It's their right to think so. Just like it was my dead grandmother's right to hate black people. But the government should not have any distinctions in place between straight people, gay people, white people, black people, etc. and how those people decide to live.
I think a lot of us younger folks are a lot less inclined to get involved with people's personal lives. It's less "wave your freak flag high!!" and more "Who cares what those people are doing? Are they paying taxes? Then leave 'em alone!"
Very well said.
Could not agree more.
That logic unfortunately fails when one considers that government already has something to do with it, and that this is about removing barriers already in place, rather than creating new ones. Last I heard the Defense of Marriage Act wasn't a reflection of the government's earnest and sincere desire to stay out of the institution of marriage. Reality being what it is, opposing gay marriage on psuedo-nonsensical libertarian grounds, when what people want in the first place is government barriers removed, is nothing more than thinly justified bigotry.
But you've also thrown in a dash of the "civil union" argument as well. I would point out that this is hardly the first time we've tried a "separate but equal" strategy in this country in an attempt to resolve bigotry, and the universal result has been failure. If it's separate or different, then how can it be equal. There is a SCOTUS opinion on this exact point.
I find the staight community that is against gays are just lost and cant look in the mirror...my partner and i have just past 12 years and so many of our straight friends were married had children and married again...so until staight people lea rn how to stay together they should keep thier mouths shut when it comes to gays. The staight people of america needs to keep their mouths shut until divorce rates drop...most couples can't stay together for 4 years....personally i'm not in it only when times are good...i'm in it for good. Find a mate...stick to it...it's not hard...just remember.."the world does not revolve around you"...that my marriage motto...it's about we not me...it works.
Quote from: ChriswUfGator on July 20, 2011, 07:55:18 AM
Quote from: KenFSU on July 01, 2011, 11:05:58 AM
Quote from: Bativac on July 01, 2011, 10:46:00 AM
Quote from: wsansewjs on July 01, 2011, 10:08:49 AM
Quote from: Jimmy on June 30, 2011, 04:08:32 PM
I don't think opposing marriage equality makes you bigot. But it does put you in the minority, at least as far as the latest opinion polls go. Opposition to such marriages fall off at younger ages. Demographics are destiny = marriage equality will be a reality within the next decade or two, tops, throughout the whole United States.
Because my generation and the younger generations before that grew up with our gay friends because we understand and love them.
This is the key to the social changes lies in the future generation.
-Josh
Not to be callous - but some of us don't "support" gay marriage so much as we don't think it's any of the government's business. It's basically a legal agreement between two consenting adults. The government should have no say-so in it, just as they should have no say-so in which race or ethnic group uses which water fountain, goes to which school, etc. We're not going to be marching in any parades or anything but we don't think it's the government's place to make it legal or illegal - it's two adults of sound mind entering an agreement and there should be no restrictions on it.
There is always going to be a large segment of the population who disagrees with homosexuality, who thinks it's wrong, disgusting, immoral, whatever - and that's fine. It's their right to think so. Just like it was my dead grandmother's right to hate black people. But the government should not have any distinctions in place between straight people, gay people, white people, black people, etc. and how those people decide to live.
I think a lot of us younger folks are a lot less inclined to get involved with people's personal lives. It's less "wave your freak flag high!!" and more "Who cares what those people are doing? Are they paying taxes? Then leave 'em alone!"
Very well said.
Could not agree more.
That logic unfortunately fails when one considers that government already has something to do with it, and that this is about removing barriers already in place, rather than creating new ones. Last I heard the Defense of Marriage Act wasn't a reflection of the government's earnest and sincere desire to stay out of the institution of marriage. Reality being what it is, opposing gay marriage on psuedo-nonsensical libertarian grounds, when what people want in the first place is government barriers removed, is nothing more than thinly justified bigotry.
But you've also thrown in a dash of the "civil union" argument as well. I would point out that this is hardly the first time we've tried a "separate but equal" strategy in this country in an attempt to resolve bigotry, and the universal result has been failure. If it's separate or different, then how can it be equal. There is a SCOTUS opinion on this exact point.
Excellent points. It's a nice thought to say "it's none of the government's business" to be involved with marriage, but in reality they are involved already, in issuing or recognizing marriage licenses, and in many cases, passing laws to avoid having to recognize some such licenses. There's a big step between simply feeling that it's not the government's business, and doing something about it.