Inside the John Gorrie Lofts
(http://photos.metrojacksonville.com/photos/1342875277_vLhqJRs-L.jpg)
Here is a sneak peek inside Riverside/Avondale's latest residential loft conversion development.
Full Article
http://www.metrojacksonville.com/article/2011-jun-inside-the-john-gorrie-lofts
In a word...... Stunning.
Beautiful building and the units look great.
My favorite part....... FUTURE RESIDENTIAL AND RETAIL in the lot to the East long Stockton street. This is the first place I have officially seen it planned out. Stockton Street is on its way.
It is beautiful but i am still against any public school being sold and turned into privat property when our schools are stuffed. Just me.
I hope they sell at those prices. One can get way better deals on a full house, condo , or town home almost anywhere you look.
Man they did a great job. Garden guy, in this town, it is amazing they managed to save this building from the wrecking ball. It's beautiful. They've taken what was surely to become another demolished eyesore and turned it into an amazing living space.
I hope they sell too, Dapperdan. I paid less for my 2700 sq ft 1950s brick home. But I think this is in a fairly desireable area which might drive the prices up.
Prices start at $102,000 for a studio on up to $312,000 for the largest two-bedroom town home. Most of the two bedroom units fall between $171,000 to $247,000.
Whoa! Is it 2006 again?
wow. looks a little different than when I was there for 7th grade in 1990-91. Nice job.
Quote from: Garden guy on July 01, 2011, 07:35:06 AM
It is beautiful but i am still against any public school being sold and turned into privat property when our schools are stuffed. Just me.
We can't afford to pay many of the teachers we already have, what makes you think we could staff up an entirely new school?? I think it's better that they sold off a school that wasn't in use to better fund the existing system. We need to sell off more of the School Board's properties (the riverfront headquarters) to help fund the ailing system.
QuotePrices start at $102,000 for a studio on up to $312,000 for the largest two-bedroom town home. Most of the two bedroom units fall between $171,000 to $247,000.
Whoa! Is it 2006 again?
I was thinking the same thing.
It is bad timing to start with those prices. Hopefully I am wrong, but I think there are way too many foreclosures and short sales competing with that. Maybe Riverside area is different.
Without the Weavers putting up their own cash, this project would have been DOA. I doubt they'll make much money at the prices they're offering. I don't think you guys realize how expensive it is to restore and convert a structure like this. Given the layout of the units I saw, I thought they were very efficient in that every space inside each unit was used to its maximum potential. I wish them the best of luck in this market but truly believe they took on this project for the betterment of the neighborhood.
Leasing them for several years then selling them (like the developers did with 1951 Market Street Lofts) maybe a better way to go. Make the cash on the back end. Not sure if their bank will allow it though
As comparables, studio lofts at 1951 Market (in Springfield) are selling now in the 70K-80K range fyi
According to the Times-Union, the Weavers will not turn a profit on this.
http://jacksonville.com/business/2011-06-30/story/condominiums-preserve-elements-closed-jacksonville-school (http://jacksonville.com/business/2011-06-30/story/condominiums-preserve-elements-closed-jacksonville-school)
When I was looking at houses a year ago Riverside/Avondale's prices seemed a lot more stable than most other parts of the city. I still think $312,000 might be a little high up there though. I looked at a house a block over on post for $100k that was at least 2500 sq ft, and with the $212k left over you could totally redo it however you wanted.... and be in a basically new house at the end.
The Weavers are community-minded people with a passion for preservation.
Well, prices are always negotiable. If they start too low they can't go back up. I'm sure the rates will be adjusted as they see the actual demand.
The exterior is A+ design and restoration. The interior is C+ in my opinion. There is too much drywall, carpet and suburban apartment complex feel. The Market Street Lofts and San Marco Lofts did not have as high-end finishes or proximity to places that people want to walk or bicycle to though, so the higher asking price for the JG units is understandable. Everything is negotiable.
The Weavers did this out of blue to save and preserve the school. What is the best way to keep school intact for a long time.... shops? no, it doesn't have the location or appeal like a storefront, and the shop can change over time. Home? yes, because people will stay there and continue to reinvest into the property. It has a higher chance of surviving through changes, and there will always be demand for human habitation.
Is it possible for The Weavers to advocate or support Springfield and other area causes beside the Riverside?
I wish there were certain neighborhoods would rise or improve at the same time. Right now The Riverside is the biggest and most dynamic area in Duval County, but there should be other neighborhoods should be equal like Springfield, Confederate Point, etc.
-Josh
Quote from: acme54321 on July 01, 2011, 09:00:40 AM
When I was looking at houses a year ago Riverside/Avondale's prices seemed a lot more stable than most other parts of the city. I still think $312,000 might be a little high up there though. I looked at a house a block over on post for $100k that was at least 2500 sq ft, and with the $212k left over you could totally redo it however you wanted.... and be in a basically new house at the end.
It just depends on what you're looking for and how much time/money you're willing to put into it. For example, the house would give you more space for your money and a private yard...if that's what you want. However, if you prefer your purchase to be move in ready with +14ft ceilings, large windows with shared amenities like a fitness center, the Gorrie may be a better deal for you.
However, at the end of the day, I think this project boils down to a couple taking on a non-profitable development like this just to make their neighborhood better. Without massive incentives (ex. Laura Trio), this project isn't feasible in today's market conditions or those from a few years back.
i guess i was hoping for a little more character on the inside, looks like a normal condo on the inside of most of these... meh the ones with exposed brick are nice
The Weavers did a great service for this city. This place looks great.
Quote from: John P on July 01, 2011, 09:06:01 AM
The exterior is A+ design and restoration. The interior is C+ in my opinion. There is too much drywall, carpet and suburban apartment complex feel. The Market Street Lofts and San Marco Lofts did not have as high-end finishes or proximity to places that people want to walk or bicycle to though, so the higher asking price for the JG units is understandable. Everything is negotiable.
Quote from: hightowerlover on July 01, 2011, 09:23:13 AM
i guess i was hoping for a little more character on the inside, looks like a normal condo on the inside of most of these... meh the ones with exposed brick are nice
Some of the exterior walls are exposed brick, while some are covered over...any idea why they didn't do all the exterior -facing walls in exposed brick? Also, what were the original interior walls? I imagine they rebuilt a good deal of the inside, but there doesn't appear to be anything exposed on the interior.
I agree that, with the couple exceptions of brick walls, it does look more like condos than lofts. It looks good, mind you, classy as hell, but not like lofts.
This is exemplary work. Kudos to the Weavers for their investment.
Quote from: PeeJayEss on July 01, 2011, 09:39:01 AM
Quote from: John P on July 01, 2011, 09:06:01 AM
The exterior is A+ design and restoration. The interior is C+ in my opinion. There is too much drywall, carpet and suburban apartment complex feel. The Market Street Lofts and San Marco Lofts did not have as high-end finishes or proximity to places that people want to walk or bicycle to though, so the higher asking price for the JG units is understandable. Everything is negotiable.
Quote from: hightowerlover on July 01, 2011, 09:23:13 AM
i guess i was hoping for a little more character on the inside, looks like a normal condo on the inside of most of these... meh the ones with exposed brick are nice
Some of the exterior walls are exposed brick, while some are covered over...any idea why they didn't do all the exterior -facing walls in exposed brick? Also, what were the original interior walls? I imagine they rebuilt a good deal of the inside, but there doesn't appear to be anything exposed on the interior.
I agree that, with the couple exceptions of brick walls, it does look more like condos than lofts. It looks good, mind you, classy as hell, but not like lofts.
i feel your conclusions are a bit relative, the use of the drywalls allow for spaces to inexpensively be sized so they can be affordable.
if you have huge ceilings, its 99% of the way of a "loft" condo, the phenomena of the 90s. The original lofts go back to the early 20th century with the working lofts in the sewing district of manhattan. These living lofts are geared towards residential occupation. If one is looking for the units that you mentioned here, it will be much more expensive, especially combined with amenities for living in. Im just speaking from my 1200sq ft loft condo in NYC (actually NJ). And the metropolitan lofts DT.
But one point i want to make about the drywall is sound/ noise from other units. You hear everything.
I think the John Gorrie lofts are an incredible value, but its really a question of if one wants to live a true urban lifestyle in Jacksonville.
Quote from: Garden guy on July 01, 2011, 07:35:06 AM
It is beautiful but i am still against any public school being sold and turned into privat property when our schools are stuffed. Just me.
Our schools aren't currently stuffed. Currently DCPS has many schools that are under populated, but are running into neighborhood backlash when it comes to redistributing students to balance out the schools' populations across the district. Instead of student redistribution, they continue to build new poorly designed and poorly constructed schools to help alleviate the over populated areas, which in turn exasperates their budget short falls by increasing their staffing and maintenance needs. In fact, trends show DSCP enrollment decreasing in the near future and continuing to decrease due to the mass exodus of people with children moving to the neighboring counties where the school systems are better funded and better rated. Unfortunately this means DCPS will have even more empty school buildings and under populated school buildings on their hands to deal with.
I am more bothered that DCPS would rather turn their backs on these great historic buildings in lieu of maintaining and updating them. Why keep building new schools when they can’t properly maintain the building stock they have and can’t properly redistribute the students to fill the current building stock that is under populated. But if they can’t, for whatever reason do this, I would rather they sell the historic building stock to someone who will give the building a new lease on life, rather than let it rot into the ground as we have seen with other historic school buildings in the Jacksonville area.
Quote from: PeeJayEss on July 01, 2011, 09:39:01 AM
Quote from: John P on July 01, 2011, 09:06:01 AM
The exterior is A+ design and restoration. The interior is C+ in my opinion. There is too much drywall, carpet and suburban apartment complex feel. The Market Street Lofts and San Marco Lofts did not have as high-end finishes or proximity to places that people want to walk or bicycle to though, so the higher asking price for the JG units is understandable. Everything is negotiable.
Quote from: hightowerlover on July 01, 2011, 09:23:13 AM
i guess i was hoping for a little more character on the inside, looks like a normal condo on the inside of most of these... meh the ones with exposed brick are nice
Some of the exterior walls are exposed brick, while some are covered over...any idea why they didn't do all the exterior -facing walls in exposed brick? Also, what were the original interior walls? I imagine they rebuilt a good deal of the inside, but there doesn't appear to be anything exposed on the interior.
I agree that, with the couple exceptions of brick walls, it does look more like condos than lofts. It looks good, mind you, classy as hell, but not like lofts.
I'm guessing that the exterior walls of a building that age where load bearing masonry with finish brick on outside and a plaster finish on the inside. They may have removed the plaster to expose the brick for aesthetic reasons. Areas where they weren't successful at removing the plaster without damaging the brick are probably the areas where you find the painted or other finish materials. Unfortunately old solid masonry buildings of that age usually had a fluid applied waterproofing membrane applied to the inside face of the brick prior to applying the plaster finish coat. Removing this plaster finish also means removing the waterproofing membrane. Thus creating vapor issues and ash/dusting issues of the the old mortar on the interior of the building. Hopefully this was thought of during the adaptive reuse of this building and won't become a problem for the people purchasing and living in the units.
Not to sound all negative. I applaud the Weavers for the efforts in saving a historic building in Jacksonville.
From the looks of things to me, where there was old brick and flooring that could be exposed, it was. In areas where old flooring was too damaged to save, they put in carpet. Also, this building was converted from a school into a large number of individual residential units. The dimensions of these residentials most likely are completely different from the dimensions of old class room spaces. In such a situation, new interior walls are constructed to separate each unit and for new spaces (such as bathrooms and closets). The brick exterior load bearing wall is still present in all units, meaning the bedrooms and living room typically have at least a wall or two with original exposed brick.
Everyone says that the Weavers live close. Where do they live? I wasn't aware they lived in the area...
I toured these two weekends ago, on father's day. they really are great condos. my parents have put a bid on one and i'll be looking to buy a smaller one in the next few months as well. it's really great because all of the condos have different lay outs. they aren't cookie cutter at all.
and innercitypressure, they live in the villa rive condos on riverside and stockton.
Quote from: Jimmy on July 01, 2011, 02:39:24 PM
They live in the Park Lane building. The historic apartment tower next to Memorial Park.
Thought the Weavers lived in Villa Riva?
Yep, I was completely wrong about that so I removed my post.
A beautiful, historic building was saved and the neighborhood revitalized. I say, "hats off" to the Weavers.
lopks good.
Quote from: Garden guy on July 01, 2011, 07:35:06 AM
It is beautiful but i am still against any public school being sold and turned into privat property when our schools are stuffed. Just me.
I would agree with you GG... however several are / have been decomissioned for some time , including Gorrie , although I am at a loss as to why that particular School.
It is better that this happen ,than to let the building stand empty and unused. Annie Lytle School's current condition is the result. 50 years it has sat unused...longer than it WAS used as a School.
I think the project is beautiful.
I am curious about the Price tag on the renovation costs of this project.
Anyone know what the monthly maintenance fees are like?
$0.25 per square foot.
Quote from: Timkin on July 01, 2011, 11:07:19 PM
I am curious about the Price tag on the renovation costs of this project.
$13 Million is the figure I read somewhere. There is no way that Ms. Weaver will make a profit on the project and I think she knew that going into it.
Wish they (the Weavers ) would take on Annie Lytle. Alot of the pre demolition has been done by 50 years of Vandals .
This will be another piece of the Weavers legacy in this area.
Quote from: Jimmy on July 06, 2011, 09:23:55 PM
Quote from: thelakelander on July 02, 2011, 07:09:38 AM
$0.25 per square foot.
Is that "good?"
If I recall correctly, I believe 1661 was something like $600 for a 2-bed (maybe 1800 sf), or about $0.33/sf. This would be ~$450 for the same size, so its better, but I don't know about "good."
There is a big event here this weekend on August 13 with special tours and raffles and speakers etc
Big turnout at the Gorrie event yesterday, despite the heat. A lot of folks were asking for realtor contact info, so let's hope this helps spur interest. I was told they've got six condos under contract in so far. Mayor Brown toured the building with the Weavers and the project's very first buyer, a (very attractive) single gal.
Quote from: Dapperdan on July 01, 2011, 08:21:00 AM
It is bad timing to start with those prices. Hopefully I am wrong, but I think there are way too many foreclosures and short sales competing with that. Maybe Riverside area is different.
Somehow I think this is relevant.
According to this article in today's Nashville Tennessean, there is a growing market for high-end rentals near downtown Nashville, and also in at least one of Nashville's affluent suburbs (Brentwood).
http://www.tennessean.com/article/20110814/BUSINESS02/308140024/Nashville-rentals-rally-developers-gain-trust-economy-s-turnabout?odyssey=tab|topnews|text|Business (http://www.tennessean.com/article/20110814/BUSINESS02/308140024/Nashville-rentals-rally-developers-gain-trust-economy-s-turnabout?odyssey=tab%7Ctopnews%7Ctext%7CBusiness)
In today's paper there is an article about the real estate market in this SMSA. 32204 was one of the three or four zip codes with an increase in prices and activity.
The article also made mention that the areas near the core of the city are doing better than outlying suburbs just like in Nashville.
Just toured The John Gorrie yesterday.VERY IMPRESSIVE. Great assortment of prices and sizes.
The 12 foot ceilings make 1200 sq ft units seem huge. Initial pricing is still the best in Riverside and the HOA is
lower than any of the comparables aka Chelsea Lofts and 1661 Riverside, and you get a decent onsite workout room with it. Water and sewer as well. Especially interesting are the two story loft units. They must have a 35 foot ceiling height. You have to see them to really appreciate how nice they are. Also, with 13 Gypsies, Bakery Moderne and Bold Bean right outside the door these are in a very good location.Anyone who wants to see a unit send me a Personal Message and I'll arrange it.
I took the tour a few weeks ago...very impressive. It's like any housing devleopment...this will not be for everyone. But I love seeing the building restored and put to good use. The Weavers have done a good thing for the city.
Gorgeous and would love one ASAP. Just not looking to buy right now. If someone swooped down, bought a few, and started renting them at reasonable rates...count me in.
QuoteIf someone swooped down, bought a few, and started renting them at reasonable rates...count me in.
Check the condo docs, from what I hear, Ms. Weaver has not released the control to the 5 owners yet, so who knows until then, but investors love uncertainty, RIGHT!
QuoteThe article also made mention that the areas near the core of the city are doing better than outlying suburbs
As a Realtor that specializes in the core, that is exactly what I have seen in the past several quarters intown. YEAH!
Had a couple conversations with the Listing Agents over at J Gorrie. The building has received preliminary
approval for the Historic Renovation tax abatement. This means the new unit owners will get a significant tax break
for the first 10 years of ownership.