Metro Jacksonville

New Commuter Train Project Takes Shape:
Orange Blossom Express Would Connect Lake, Orange Counties

POSTED: 4:22 pm EDT June 7, 2011


ORLANDO, Fla. -- Local train service could be rolling sooner than first expected, and its name is not SunRail.
U.S. Rep. John Mica, R-Fla., announced a commuter rail service called the Orange Blossom Express, which could be up and running before SunRail begins operation and serves Lake and Orange counties from roughly Tavares, through Apopka and into downtown Orlando, with a spur to Winter Garden.

When a Colorado railcar rolled into Orlando in 2002, Mica thought it may be the first local commuter train system.  But attention was shifted to SunRail, which is supposed to connect Volusia, Seminole and Orange counties by 2014.  "I like to catch people by surprise," Mica said. "You can’t stay stuck in neutral when it comes to transportation initiatives."

Mica is doing just that, delivering news on the Orange Blossom Express, a commuter train that would share tracks owned by Florida Central Railroad, a freight company.  A new company, U.S. Railcar, bought Colorado Railcar, and said it could cheaply, quickly, begin shuttling folks between Tavares, Mt. Dora and Apopka to downtown Orlando.

"It’s already to go, and so it would take us anywhere from 18 months to 24 months to produce the cars," U.S. Railcar Chairman Barry Fromm said.  Fromm said the system could begin operating before SunRail service begins. Mica predicted government approvals will have the Orange Blossom Express running a close second to SunRail and possibly connect to it. He said the big sell to the public is that only a fraction of taxpayer money would be needed -- about $20 million for minor track improvements and a ridership study compared with the $1.2 billion SunRail project.

"That’s what I like about this. There’s not a lot of taxpayer money, but what we have is a cost-effective alternative," Mica said. "An existing private rail line to not only move passengers but also more freight more safely and economically."  The Florida Department of Transportation has already agreed to pay three-quarters of the cost, so communities would split roughly $5 million in costs. Apopka will be deciding its share as soon as this month.

Gov. Rick Scott, who is traveling in Canada on a trade mission, is expected to make a decision about SunRail by July.



http://www.wesh.com/news/28160897/detail.html

Costs and time-line on this proposal I don't understand.  Appears to my novice eyes to be very cost attainable. 

Whatever factors are at play here...is something similar, somehow, on some line, in Jacksonville replicable?

Thanks. 

while this is a great opportunity for Orlando, it will have very little bearing on whether we get commuter rail here...this is a short-line track that doesn't carry much freight right now....basically all they need to do is buy some cars and do some minor track upgrades...they need almost no environmental analysis, as the private company will likely run the operation.

So, the only way that transfers to jax. is if CSX or FEC are interested in running passenger rail

We can all forget about commuter rail while the republicans rule Florida..they are against anything that will help the public live it's life better....

Quote from: Garden guy on June 08, 2011, 08:27:19 AM
We can all forget about commuter rail while the republicans rule Florida..they are against anything that will help the public live it's life better....

Mica is a Republican  ::)

Nashville's commuter rail service is also operated on a short line: Nashville and Eastern, I think. 

All of the CSX lines into Nashville have too much freight on them.

Quote from: Shwaz on June 08, 2011, 08:34:47 AM

Quote from: Garden guy on June 08, 2011, 08:27:19 AM
We can all forget about commuter rail while the republicans rule Florida..they are against anything that will help the public live it's life better....

Mica is a Republican  ::)

Yeah, and he is shilling for the former Colorado Railcar company AGAIN!! Now called U.S. Railcar.

U.S. Railcar no doubt got the same no-bid contract as it previously was able to get:
http://beta2.tbo.com/news/nation-world/2008/jul/20/na-railcar-deal-missing-key-component-the-tracks-ar-148371/

Another prime example of corporate welfare!

I don't mind corporate welfare the same as I don't mind personal welfare as long as the goal is for community good.

Quote from: FayeforCure on June 09, 2011, 09:59:02 AM

Quote from: Shwaz on June 08, 2011, 08:34:47 AM

Quote from: Garden guy on June 08, 2011, 08:27:19 AM
We can all forget about commuter rail while the republicans rule Florida..they are against anything that will help the public live it's life better....

Mica is a Republican  ::)

Yeah, and he is shilling for the former Colorado Railcar company AGAIN!! Now called U.S. Railcar.

U.S. Railcar no doubt got the same no-bid contract as it previously was able to get:
http://beta2.tbo.com/news/nation-world/2008/jul/20/na-railcar-deal-missing-key-component-the-tracks-ar-148371/

Another prime example of corporate welfare!

Faye, Garden Guy, I understand your ire and in fact have been pretty pissed with these guys myself. I think you need to understand a bit more of this before launching in the wrong direction.

Corporate Welfare for U.S.Railcar? Hardly. The fact is they ARE the US Rail passenger industry...all of it! With the "buy American" strings attached to transit projects there isn't really a choice for new equipment. All of the other builders are merely "plants" turning out cars for foreign builders. Our freight car industry leads the world, but our passenger car industry has completely vanished for all practical purposes.


My own experience is the rail car is WAY too dependent on plastic and airplane like construction. I ran one at 80 mph down in Miami and was amazed that it sounded like it was flying apart. Let's hope US Railcar has fixed that. Otherwise the ubiquitous RDC (Rail Diesel Car) from the 1950's is still chocking up the miles from Dallas to Deese Lake, Moosonee to Kicking Horse. EVERYWHERE. These are basically the same cars you would see on the Silver Meteor streaking alongside Roosevelt Avenue only they are self propelled. Their operating data is superior to the U.S.Railcar, and they were originally American made in Red Lion, PA. by the Budd Company. The US Railcar gets less mileage and the Budd's obtain 9 mpg easily, and as much as 12-14 mpg when running in tandem. There is a Canadian Company that has collected a fleet of some 30+ RDC cars and they are re-manufacturing THEM to new condition. (Rebuilding involves replacing any worn parts, and basically fixing anything that is broken, re-manufacturing involves taking the cars down to the bare frame and building a "new" railcar on the bones). This gets a bit personal as my family (The Mann Boudoir Car Company) owned most of the patents that became a little thing called "The Pullman Company," thus a subject I've learned a bit about.  

(COL. WILLIAM MANN, 9 Jan 1872 received patent on sleeping car divided by transverse partitions into compartments. USPat 122,622: doors in side of each room like in europe/ small toilet each compartment, seats convertible to beds running crosswise to direction of travel. 8 Jan 1878 invented corridor car & car vestibule used on train built in England for use in Russia. USPat 198,991 / car had corridor length of car, communal restrooms, one sex each end vestibules were closed -- forerunner of present-day (1957) compartment cars)


We need to get a copy of any agreement with the Florida Central and toss it at the Florida East Coast Railway to see if we can make it fly here. The Florida Central Railroad trains would connect with Sunrail at Church Street Station in Orlando, and Amtrak at Sligh Boulevard, they have trackage rights over the CSX from Church Street down to Taft Yard. Again, this goes with what I've been saying about Commuter Rail and PORT RAIL being one and the same in Jacksonville, if we'd buy the former F&J (Yulee-Springfield Yard) and add the link to Jacksonville Terminal. Lease back that freight operation to the highest bidder and use that cash to retire the debit and then to pay for the commuter services.  I'd be amazed if the Florida Central only "needs" $20 million in track repairs, I rode over it a couple of years ago and it would damn near bounce you out the windows at 12 mph. We wouldn't have that problem in Jacksonville.

OCKLAWAHA

Quote from: Ocklawaha on June 09, 2011, 03:04:11 PM

Quote from: FayeforCure on June 09, 2011, 09:59:02 AM
Yeah, and he is shilling for the former Colorado Railcar company AGAIN!! Now called U.S. Railcar.

U.S. Railcar no doubt got the same no-bid contract as it previously was able to get:
http://beta2.tbo.com/news/nation-world/2008/jul/20/na-railcar-deal-missing-key-component-the-tracks-ar-148371/

Another prime example of corporate welfare!

(http://m1.ikiwq.com/img/xl/HmJXMFmD5wtpS8MnQfHwMd.JPG)
US RAILCAR

Faye, Garden Guy, I understand your ire and in fact have been pretty pissed with these guys myself. I think you need to understand a bit more of this before launching in the wrong direction.

Corporate Welfare for U.S.Railcar? Hardly. The fact is they ARE the US Rail passenger industry...all of it! With the "buy American" strings attached to transit projects there isn't really a choice for new equipment. All of the other builders are merely "plants" turning out cars for foreign builders. Our freight car industry leads the world, but our passenger car industry has completely vanished for all practical purposes.



OCKLAWAHA

Hey Ock, if even the Toyota Prius is American made, so are Siemens railcars American made if their plant is in the US and they use more than 50% supplies from the US in addition to American labor. Why the heck are all these foreign companies eager to set up plants in the US if the government won't buy their product?

It definitely was a no-bid contract:

QuoteColorado Railcar was the only bidder for the contract advertised in February. That's because the state wrote the solicitation narrowly, and no other company qualified.

One of Colorado Railcar's most ardent supporters is U.S. Rep. John Mica, R-Winter Park. Mica is also a major proponent of the Orlando area commuter system.

QuoteMica began promoting Colorado Railcar (nine) years ago. It had just announced production of its new, crash-resistant DMU but hadn't sold one. A longtime member of the House Transportation and Infrastructure Committee, Mica took credit for getting a $4 million congressional earmark in 2003 that helped the company sell that first vehicle - to South Florida's Tri-Rail.

An earmark is a provision in a bill that directs money to be spent on a specific project. The 2003 bill with the railcar earmark didn't name Colorado Railcar, but it required that the money be used for DMUs that were manufactured in the United States and could run on tracks with freight trains. At the time, only Colorado Railcar met the criteria.

Congress approved a second earmark in 2004 for $5 million, after Colorado Railcar hired the lobbying and law firm Greenberg, Traurig. The Florida Department of Transportation pitched in $11 million in state tax money so it could buy six cars.

Now, the state plans to pay Colorado Railcar $4.5 million apiece for the 10 vehicles.

Mica said that although he supported Colorado Railcar, he did not talk to DOT officials about giving the company the state contract.

http://beta2.tbo.com/news/nation-world/2008/jul/20/na-railcar-deal-missing-key-component-the-tracks-ar-148371/

BTW, Ock, a huge thanks for being honest about the poor quality of the Colorado Railcar you checked.

I understand about the foreign builders assembling in this country Faye, trouble is they are not FRA COMPLIANT. This means a Siemens DMU could NOT operate on track shared by CSX or FLORIDA CENTRAL freights. If Orlando wanted to rewrite the bid about the only thing they could do would be consider an embargo on all freight movements during the hours the commutes operate. I highly doubt that Florida Central or CSX would bite on that apple.

Personally I think FDOT, TRI-RAIL, SUNRAIL, HART or JTA are absolutely STUPID if they don't grab up those "new" RDC cars. I'd love to see JTA move toward Commuter Rail by purchasing the first 6 cars from the Canadian re-manufacturer.

The way I see it Faye, the whole industry went to hell after Uncle William died!


OCKLAWAHA

Wow talk about Karma, I just came across this reprint from Railfan and Railroad Magazine. Let's hope JTA and FDOT read this in detail. It validates EVERYTHING I've been telling y'all about the DMU train.


OCKLAWAHA