From the Miami Herald:
http://www.miamiherald.com/2011/05/27/2245581/asian-casino-giant-wants-to-bring.html (http://www.miamiherald.com/2011/05/27/2245581/asian-casino-giant-wants-to-bring.html)
QuoteAsian casino giant wants to bring gambling to downtown Miami
An Asian casino giant wants to bring a resort to Miami where the Miami Herald now stands. If Florida says no to more gambling, Genting will build slowly.
By DOUGLAS HANKS
dhanks@MiamiHerald.com
When it comes to waterfront gambling, it’s hard to finder a bigger bet than the one Genting Malaysia made Friday in downtown Miami.
In paying $236 million for the 14 acres that house The Miami Herald, the Asian gaming giant envisions a luxury casino resort on Biscayne Bay even though Florida law forbids it. But people close to the deal say the Asian conglomerate has the patience to wait out the politics of casino gambling, and the deep pockets to stick with the venture if the slot machines and blackjack tables don’t materialize.
Put a casino on the shipyards property.
The shipyards property would be an excellent location. We go to Tunica, or Biloxi a couple of times a year and the casino parking lots are dominated by cars from Georgia and Florida. This state is turning its back on a huge amount of revenue.
Quote from: copperfiend on June 02, 2011, 03:16:30 PM
Put a casino on the shipyards property.
Yea,that could be just like Jacksonville for 'ya after all ..........
A hell of a thing to do to our gracious front porch.
Do that and the 'Stay In Jacksonville' bucket list that has recently overflowed will get kicked in the river.
If Duval must have casino-there are plenty of places for one other than waterfront.
Attempt to place casino downtown and watch First Baptist come out of the woodwork-earning it's keep after all of the criticism,loss.
Bumper Sticker: Florida's First Coast-where Miami begins!!
We just simply need a paddle wheel casino boat cruising the St. Johns...pickup/dropoff at the Landing. Preferably with great dining on board...sunset dinner cruising etc...
Quote from: RockStar on June 03, 2011, 03:14:10 PM
We just simply need a paddle wheel casino boat cruising the St. Johns...pickup/dropoff at the Landing. Preferably with great dining on board...sunset dinner cruising etc...
Outstanding concept- however the casino Industry imagined for Miami-and not yet even legally sanctioned- would entail considerable complex.
Downtown Miami has in fact grown,attracting many from the area's own South beach.And withoput the help of Casino,and there may be an ankling of Casino opposition in Miami
I want it east of the Gator bowl. I want actual downtown to be more residential than a casino area would be.
How about casino/convention center complex?
I wouldn't hold my breath waiting for an international developer investing $2 billion on any site in Jacksonville.....downtown or the Southside. Reading the article, they are betting on an environment that simply does not exist in a second tier regional city like Jacksonville.
QuoteEager for a U.S. foothold, it outbid rivals in New York last year for the rights to bring a casino to the Queens Aqueduct racetrack. In Miami, the company sees a flagship property in a city with international appeal.
“We view Miami as a very important gateway between the United States, Europe and Latin America,’’ Resorts World President Mike Speller said. “We are very, very excited to be here.’’
At a morning press conference, Speller outlined a massive transformation for an industrial site occupied by parking lots and a blocky 1960s building housing waterfront printing presses. In its place would rise hotels, entertainment venues, residential towers, commercial space and other amenities to make the area a “destination resort.’’ Santiago Calatrava, one of the world’s leading architects, appears to be the top pick to design the complex, said Miami Commissioner Marc Sarnoff, who was briefed Friday by developers.
The estimated cost: between $2 billion and $2.5 billion.
Speller said the project will go ahead whether or not Florida allows casinos to expand beyond Indian lands and selected race tracks and jai alai frontons. But a casino would allow a quicker return, and Genting would dramatically speed up its development timetable if Florida changes its gambling laws, Speller said in a statement.
Read more: http://www.miamiherald.com/2011/05/27/2245581/asian-casino-giant-wants-to-bring.html#ixzz1OQTNMb50
If casinos were already approved, and if Jacksonville would even consider allowing them, and if we could get the attention of a major player company like Genting, then we have a location that might be superior to that of Miamis. The old JEA site on the south bank is visible for miles from two directions, and virtually all traffic between the northeast and Florida rolls right by it. Miami, for all of it's first tier status, simply will NEVER have such a location because geography again favors Jacksonville. I agree with lakelander though if for no other reason then the fact that our heads are about 2' feet deep in the local sand and likely to stay that way.
OCKLAWAHA
I love Jax, but the Shipyards and JEA sites combined aren't superior to the Miami Herald site, for a casino/international resort. Its (Herald site) in a rapidly growing DT in an international city, already has fixed mass transit (which will be directly tied into MIA), a skip and a hop away from a major cruise port and a water taxi ride away from South Beach. Those are highly attractive environmental characteristics for a potential urban casino/resort site. The market and money is already there. All they need is the right to build and they've hit the jackpot.
Would a casino blend well with a convention center? If so, it could be a completely private venture.
I'd assume it would depend on the type of casino and convention center and the market desired for both. There could be cases of where they blend well and others where they don't.
Quote from: urbanlibertarian on June 05, 2011, 03:34:20 PM
Would a casino blend well with a convention center? If so, it could be a completely private venture.
it does in New Orleans...but IMO casinos are just another one-trick pony...they have done very little to revitalize Atlantic City....and now that they popping up everywhere, the returns are even less
^Hard Rock built and operates New Orleans' convention center?
Quote from: thelakelander on June 05, 2011, 03:01:48 PM
I love Jax, but the Shipyards and JEA sites combined aren't superior to the Miami Herald site, for a casino/international resort. Its (Herald site) in a rapidly growing DT in an international city, already has fixed mass transit (which will be directly tied into MIA), a skip and a hop away from a major cruise port and a water taxi ride away from South Beach. Those are highly attractive environmental characteristics for a potential urban casino/resort site. The market and money is already there. All they need is the right to build and they've hit the jackpot.
We're not the equal of Miami, we haven't been since about 1950, and today we're not even the equal of Orlando, or Tampa and we're at risk of falling behind Savannah, Mobile and Charleston... I won't dispute the charms of South Beach, MIA, Biscayne Boulevard etc. My point being, in spite of MIA, South Beach, et al when it comes to impulse stopping, and freeway tourist traffic, the ONLY location that could beat ours might be on I-75 somewhere north of the Wildwood Turnpike/I-75 split. Miami might have more net tourists in a day then we have pass through on 95, but they don't have more tourists entering the city from the north on the super slab. That single point would make the JEA site very attractive to a tourism type resort, casino, or hotel as it is highly visible and on a high tourist trafficked freeway.
I tend to agree with TUFSU though that as the casino phenomena spreads it dilutes itself and eventually will have virtually no impact at all. OCKLAWAHA
Gotcha. However, I figure most fly right into South Florida instead of driving down I-95 through Jax.
Check out this Atlantic City photo thread on Skyscraperpage. It looks pretty run down.
http://forum.skyscraperpage.com/showthread.php?t=191401
Quote from: Lunican on June 06, 2011, 08:27:11 AM
Check out this Atlantic City photo thread on Skyscraperpage. It looks pretty run down.
http://forum.skyscraperpage.com/showthread.php?t=191401
Doesn't look run down to me.
Quote from: north miami on June 03, 2011, 02:55:13 PM
Quote from: copperfiend on June 02, 2011, 03:16:30 PM
Put a casino on the shipyards property.
Yea,that could be just like Jacksonville for 'ya after all ..........
A hell of a thing to do to our gracious front porch.
Do that and the 'Stay In Jacksonville' bucket list that has recently overflowed will get kicked in the river.
If Duval must have casino-there are plenty of places for one other than waterfront.
Attempt to place casino downtown and watch First Baptist come out of the woodwork-earning it's keep after all of the criticism,loss.
Bumper Sticker: Florida's First Coast-where Miami begins!!
I second that. There is no way that a casino would be able to set up shop without some resistance from the usual suspects!
You definitely have to be careful with a casino. You don't want one that isn't a full blown resort. You need something that can sell vacation packages.
Quote from: Lunican on June 06, 2011, 08:27:11 AM
Check out this Atlantic City photo thread on Skyscraperpage. It looks pretty run down.
http://forum.skyscraperpage.com/showthread.php?t=191401
Speaking of Skyscraperpage, Jacksonville's list of tall buildings is inaccurate.
Destination casino bills to be filed in the 2012 session of the legislature:
http://www.thefloridacurrent.com/article.cfm?id=24749131&utm_source=not_lt_user&utm_medium=article_link&utm_campaign=current_email
Our state legislators need to handle this as passed in Ohio a couple of years ago. If the industry wants to open in our state you pass a law that says you must open one casino in Miami, Orlando, Tampa, and Jacksonville. It is all or nothing if you want to do business in our state. This way all of the state would benefit from this industry not just south Florida. Currently casinos are being built in Toledo Cleveland , Columbus and cincinnati as a result of the Ohio law. Florida is a much bigger destination than Ohio needless to say so if they want to come here make them play by our rules and benefit all of the state.
Our state has a standing contract with the Seminole over exclusive casino gaming rights, as well as a ban on non-tribal gaming and a desire, at least in some quarters, to not renege on our explicit contract and screw over the tribes just to make a few potential-but-not-empirically-certain dollars. At least we did until the Miami pork train rolled in.
But if we do go back on it. Then let all of the state should at least have the opportunity to benefit. Two separate issues. This would only be applicable if they agree to override the tribal contract. We just need it to be required to allow all of state to be involved if it happens.
^The true issue is that we shouldn't welch on our contract just to make some Monopoly money, no matter where said Monopoly money is going.
http://jacksonville.com/opinion/blog/403455/matt-dixon/2011-11-16/destination-resorts-get-first-legislative-hearing?cid=hp-justin
The last thing downtown Jacksonville needs is some sleazy casino. Detroit's Greektown now has ugly hulking casinos that don't create street life, but in fact keep people in those buildings.
Putting casinos in should be viewed as a last resort thing, when all else fails. Everything that gets built or gets done in Jacksonville gets built/done with a whole lot less money or thought than the same thing built/done somewhere else, our casinos would be no different. Imagine eye sores with a lack of thought and respect for the community.
^I think for a casino, Detroit's Greektown Casino came out pretty nice. It's set back from the street, allowing the historic strip to remain in place and directly ties into a people mover station. The recent hotel addition was okay as well being a piece of modern architecture in a dated environment.
Personally speaking, I would be an example of someone who has visited the casino who has dined multiple times in the mom & pop restaurants surrounding the place. Now I park in the casino's garage on just about every trip into downtown Detroit, grab a bite to eat at a local restaurant and go to the casino to get my parking validated. If that casino didn't offer the free parking, I'd most likely would avoid the surrounding restaurants and businesses on my trips to Detroit. I'd probably spend more time in Midtown where parking is free, the restaurants are just as good, the walkability is decent and its easier to get in and out.
(http://photos.metrojacksonville.com/photos/594999989_fdozA-M.jpg)
(http://photos.metrojacksonville.com/photos/594974069_LUzAE-M.jpg)
(http://photos.metrojacksonville.com/photos/594974239_PDFK5-M.jpg)
Out of the three casinos in downtown Detroit, I'd say it turned out the best. The other two don't integrate at all with their surrounding environment. With that said, if anyone is thinking that a casino is going to bring downtown back, they are mistaken. There really is no one trick pony that can.
The Dade county complex sprouted on the fringe of the designated Everglades is an eyesore evident from the interior Glades as far as Twenty Mile Bend.
funny how an entity once absolutely forbidden gains acceptance,step by step,typically via " conservative" political players so quick to warn of slippery slopes elsewhere........
back to Jacksonville and the core of this thread,where in fact are the Duval county sites under consideration?
I'm so sick of this so called 'underground teflon GOB network' like First Baptist for example, that forever supposedly has a stranglehold on everything concerning Jax, like we're some freaking Mayberry. So I guess that the teflon dons in FBC have approved on some progressive things in this city like the Jags, The Super Bowl etc by coincidence? I don't buy that.
well nm....the Miami example you mention is owned and operated by a ribe...so if the Seminoles, Miccosukees, or any other tribe owned land in Jacksonville they might be able to build one.
Now of course there is a push to allow gaming in south Florida beyond what the tribes and parimutuels have....for now it is limited to south Florida to protect the agreement the state has with the Seminoles, but I would suspect that it will eventuially be opened up to the state as a whole.
Pennsylvania is a good example, where I believe they allowed for 5 locations in the state....there was much jockeying for the positions but in the end they got spread throughout....so if Florida followed suit, I could see 3 in southeast Florida, 1 in southwest Florida, 2 in central Florida, 1 in northeast Florida, and 1 in northwest Florida.
and here's an article w/ the latest
http://www.thefloridacurrent.com/article.cfm?id=25442665&utm_source=not_lt_user&utm_medium=article_link&utm_campaign=current_email
I don't think you can have an honest discussion about opening more gaming facilities in Florida, until you close down the illegal 'sweepstakes' operations that currently litter the state.
City council dropped the ball on this, BIG TIME, here locally.
^That's part of what the casino-pushers are saying, field. They want to create a state gaming commission to regulate gambling. In reality the state and local governments are perfectly equipped to regulate gaming and deal with illegal gambling, whether or not they actually do anything about it; the commission is just another level of bureaucracy to justify this change we don't need.
Quote from: I-10east on November 17, 2011, 07:37:10 AM
I'm so sick of this so called 'underground teflon GOB network' like First Baptist for example, that forever supposedly has a stranglehold on everything concerning Jax, like we're some freaking Mayberry. So I guess that the teflon dons in FBC have approved on some progressive things in this city like the Jags, The Super Bowl etc by coincidence? I don't buy that.
underground teflon GOB network or not, we generally behave like Mayberry. So it really doesn't matter either way.
Quote from: tufsu1 on November 17, 2011, 08:34:08 AM
well nm....the Miami example you mention is owned and operated by a ribe...so if the Seminoles, Miccosukees, or any other tribe owned land in Jacksonville they might be able to build one.
Well, for one thing, there aren't any other tribes in this state; the Seminole Tribe of Florida and the Miccosukee Tribe of Indians of Florida are the only federally recognized tribes. The state's compound was worked out with the Seminole, but the Miccosukee Tribe explicitly receive any rights the Seminole get.
You are right, though - the tribes could build a casino here, and have looked into it in the past. The primary reason they haven't (besides some local resistance) is that they don't have land here and it's far from their reservations. They have also looked into Orlando, but expect the Mouse and associates to let that happen in a similar timeframe as legal bordellos and hash bars.
If we really wanted a casino in Jacksonville the easiest way to do it would be to work with the Seminole on building one. That wouldn't require major changes to state law, a new gaming commission, or a $2 billion pricetag.
Quote from: tufsu1 on November 17, 2011, 08:34:08 AM
Now of course there is a push to allow gaming in south Florida beyond what the tribes and parimutuels have....for now it is limited to south Florida to protect the agreement the state has with the Seminoles, but I would suspect that it will eventuially be opened up to the state as a whole.
Pennsylvania is a good example, where I believe they allowed for 5 locations in the state....there was much jockeying for the positions but in the end they got spread throughout....so if Florida followed suit, I could see 3 in southeast Florida, 1 in southwest Florida, 2 in central Florida, 1 in northeast Florida, and 1 in northwest Florida.
You are probably right. Once we've opened the door for the Miami Pork Machine, investors will likely pressure the legislature into further reneging on our contract so they can build sleazy eyesores all over the state.
How about just a nice, paddlewheel casino boat, cruising the St Johns, with a really nice restaurant. Pick up at the Landing every hour or so...
Now the paddle boats would be a cool idea. They can't do that in Miami or Orlando. It could be unique to Jacksonville.
(http://photos.metrojacksonville.com/Learning-From/Savannah-November-2011/i-gDLsdz4/0/M/P1520187-M.jpg)
^Savannah this past weekend. Unfortunately, tourist don't confine themselves to state lines. The paddle boat thing can and already occurs in just about every Southern city with a river.
Wouldn't it be cool if the Seminole tribe partnered with the Hyatt or Toney Sleiman or someone else to put a casino/convention center on the old courthouse site and there was no public money involved? You know, a private-private partnership.
Quote from: avonjax on November 17, 2011, 10:18:35 AM
underground teflon GOB network or not, we generally behave like Mayberry. So it really doesn't matter either way.
Thanks for the obligatory negative feedback; It wouldn't be MJ without it.
Quote from: urbanlibertarian on November 17, 2011, 12:47:07 PM
Wouldn't it be cool if the Seminole tribe partnered with the Hyatt or Toney Sleiman or someone else to put a casino/convention center on the old courthouse site and there was no public money involved? You know, a private-private partnership.
For one thing, if it was a true Class III casino the Seminole would have to be the outright owners, or it would breach the compound. We'll see how interested they are in building downtown casinos now that Class III gaming is legal - assuming that the state doesn't breach its part of the contract first.
Interesting article from 2003, an opinion piece on gambling in cities:
Quote
Lack of arts funding hobbles Atlanta's growth
Date: Monday, December 8, 2003
Wasn't it just a few years ago that we envisioned Atlanta becoming an international city? With a proposal to approve gambling it seems our focus has changed ["Pitts will ask state to OK gambling," Oct. 24].
Does a single true international business city exist that has gambling as a key component of its identity? Have our reputation and situation become so eroded that we should follow Detroit and Mississippi as examples?
If Atlanta is to be an important city, we must be an intelligent city. Together we must keep the big picture in spite of our harsh reality.
This is the only way to create a place where we wish to live and invite the world to be our guests.
Thinking big means knowing our resources and advantages; it also means contemplating what it takes to be successful. I maintain that Atlanta cannot fully compete in the global marketplace by simply being a transportation and business hub. We have to offer a distinct, vibrant and indigenous arts culture to the world.
To do this, we have to develop that culture by supporting the arts. Great cities have been and always will be tied to their unique perspectives and contributions to culture.
Atlanta Business Chronicle recently reported on the study by the Regional Task Force and Research Atlanta, "Funding for the Arts: Earmarked Taxes and Options for Metropolitan Atlanta" [Special Section, Sept. 26]. The study explored options and benefits to the arts received by other cities through taxes. It is good to see that our business leaders are considering the necessity and various approaches for support of the arts.
Charles Green expressed another point of view in his recent article, "Creative thinking, not taxes, needed for arts" [Oct. 24]. He noted our looming bills for infrastructure and the laggard economy, and suggested that taxes are not only a long shot, but also perhaps the laziest way to fund the arts.
http://www.bizjournals.com/atlanta/stories/2003/12/08/editorial4.html