June 21st.
http://www.metrojacksonville.com/forum/index.php?topic=9809.0
How grateful Preservation SOS is -- for the hard work that the Lisa Sheppard and Jason Teal put in on this proposed legislation.
We are so grateful that...
(http://i860.photobucket.com/albums/ab165/sheclown/billkillingsworth-1.jpg)
Bill Killingsworth went for a walk with us:
http://www.metrojacksonville.com/forum/index.php?topic=9848.0
and that the HPC set up a subcommittee to tackle the problem
http://www.metrojacksonville.com/forum/index.php/topic,9512.0.html
The journey starts the week before in the budget committee.
We will be keeping a close eye on this -- cheering it on as it makes its journey!
(http://i860.photobucket.com/albums/ab165/sheclown/116%20E%206th%20St/111East6th002-1-1.jpg)
We've had enough of this
Bravo Bill! Viva Springfield!
VIVA!
OCKLAWAHA
Whoot! Whoot!
Quote from: sheclown on May 31, 2011, 06:31:57 AM
June 21st.
http://www.metrojacksonville.com/forum/index.php?topic=9809.0
How grateful Preservation SOS is -- for the hard work that the Lisa Sheppard and Jason Teal put in on this proposed legislation.
We are so grateful that...
(http://i860.photobucket.com/albums/ab165/sheclown/billkillingsworth-1.jpg)
Bill Killingsworth went for a walk with us:
http://www.metrojacksonville.com/forum/index.php?topic=9848.0
and that the HPC set up a subcommittee to tackle the problem
http://www.metrojacksonville.com/forum/index.php/topic,9512.0.html
The journey starts the week before in the budget committee.
We will be keeping a close eye on this -- cheering it on as it makes its journey!
sheclown was there any heads up about the house on the corner of Washington and Beaver next to Hogans Creek? Its completely gone and leveled.
The grren one is the only one left.
Just thought that you may know.
Nope. We can hardly keep up with the ones in Springfield.
I'm sorry to hear about old homes getting knocked down, historic district or not.
Thanks for the response back.
Whats the Readers Digest version for having a building demolished?
Is there a Springfield list?
Just thought that structure had potential.
Where to start.
There is a list of "unsafe structures" for Springfield.
Other neighborhoods too.
Our list is huge, boasting over 130 homes.
Being on the unsafe structure list doesn't mean the house will get demolished, even though it sure seems like it.
MCCD can demolish a structure for safety reasons. Historic or not. Safety takes precedence over history.
The non-existent formal track destroyed MANY homes in Springfield: homes that owners forgot about, abandoned, and left uncared for that MCCD got tired of and abated the "nuisance" through demolition.
That is why we pushed for an inbetween alternative: mothballing.
An owner can request demolition. If it is historic it is supposed to go before HPC. If not, it's a gonner. Currently, MCCD does not need a COA for demolitions. Emergency demolitions are carte blanche.
That's the best Reader's Digest version I could do.
What is the address of the house? I can research and request information if you can pass it along.
Noone--usually someone wants it demolished. And it is our experience that when someone is pushing for it to go down, it goes.
Reasons:
1.) owner is being fined by the city b/c someone else calls COJ to complain, (see # 2-4)
2.) neighbors are tired of the eyesore and call city (see #1)
3.) social reasons -- can't get rid of the people around it or in it, so it gets knocked down.(see #1)
4.) there are future plans for that space so campaign begins against it (see #1)
Justification
1.) it is unsafe.
2.) it has been in the system for too long.
3.) owners are not cooperating
4.) structure is being used for illegal activity
And...regarding Justification #1 above, let's just say that some city department's definition of "unsafe" and a preservationist's definition of "unsafe" may differ wildly.
For example, one house was put on "formal track for demolition." Testimony said a piece of the tin roof was coming loose and flapping. That's unsafe? Really? Something that could be fixed with a handful of nails is a reason for a house to go down?
Another house has already been approved for demo mainly because of a hole in the roof. Much of it is over a back porch. It can be patched. But it's been approved for demo. It is in no danger of falling down. In fact, it's a fourplex that could be easily rehabbed into a beautiful little apartment building. We're looking like crazy for someone to buy it and agree to rehab it before the demo happens.
WOW! I truly have a greater respect and understanding for what you are trying to attempt. There is that part of me with property rights too. Finding the balance.
The building on Hogans creek was a 1959 1400 sq' duplex. Every time I would drive by I'd think of how cool to be upstairs and you could rent kayaks and give tours downstairs.
the real estate number is 0733440000 and the permit for demo was B11437138.
The permit was pulled May 13th and the demo finished May 26th
I understand that there will be a bus tour promoting vacancies and wanting people to move Downtown and open businesses and to Live, Work and Play. Its not happening on Hogans Creek. WHY?
Wait until I share with all of you the Gator permit issued by the Maxwell House Plant May 11 and the 6.5 gator pulled out on May 15th. I saw the trap. The Maxwell House Plant a 100 year old corporate presence and the first alligator permit issued to the company. WHY? Because too many people are having fun kayaking on a Downtown Urban Waterway Destination. Instead of promoting the wildlife lets promote my shopping cart depth meter chart. At least that's still there and the tire in the Mulberry tree. Who's next to paddle Hogans Creek? We'll make it a demo paddle. We'll sink a shopping cart.
Hope to see some of you at Art Walk.
(http://i145.photobucket.com/albums/r207/badgeroakwood/crossed-fingers.jpg)
JULY?
paperwork was submitted yesterday and hopefully, it will be introduced in August.
Recreation, Community Development, Public Health and Safety Committee Meeting, today at 2 p.m.
PASSED 6:1 (Schellenberg)
Land Use and Zoning Committee Meeting, today at 5 p.m.
PASSED 7:0
Bill Killingsworth, Lisa Sheppard, and Jason Teal are the Mothballing heroes for Springfield.
Thank you for all your support and hard work for this intervention.
2011-408 goes to Council Tuesday night.
(http://i860.photobucket.com/albums/ab165/sheclown/jason-1.jpg)
Jason Teal introduces mothball legislation to LUZ this evening.
Where this legislation stands at this point:
The legislation had to go through three committees before it could go to full council. The first committee met on Monday and it was deferred, but yesterday it passed easily through the remaining two committees (see above). If the members of the first committee will wave voting on it and send it to full council on Tuesday, it could be voted on and passed that evening.
Can you post, or is it posted somewhere, specifically what it says?
Quote from: sheclown on August 03, 2011, 06:10:04 AM
Where this legislation stands at this point:
The legislation had to go through three committees before it could go to full council. The first committee met on Monday and it was deferred, but yesterday it passed easily through the remaining two committees (see above). If the members of the first committee will wave voting on it and send it to full council on Tuesday, it could be voted on and passed that evening.
Is Gaffney a member of the committee that deferred it?
No. The committee deferred as they were new and inexperienced with Roberts Rules apparently. Gaffney is the one who is supporting that they will wave their vote so that it will push through Council Tuesday without hold up.
Quote from: iloveionia on August 03, 2011, 11:39:52 AM
No. The committee deferred as they were new and inexperienced with Roberts Rules apparently. Gaffney is the one who is supporting that they will wave their vote so that it will push through Council Tuesday without hold up.
Oh, well if he's already onboard, then you're 10 steps ahead of me. I was going to suggest contacting him for assistance, but it sounds like you already have it covered.
While SOS certainly ignited the fire for mothballing, Jason Teal, Lisa Sheppard, and Bill Killingsworth have truly made it happen. It was evident in the two meetings yesterday a lot of frontloading had been done by these 3 to allow mothballing to move forward, and it has been these folks that have worked in the last year to make it a reality.
Quote from: ChriswUfGator on August 03, 2011, 10:33:51 AM
Quote from: sheclown on August 03, 2011, 06:10:04 AM
Where this legislation stands at this point:
The legislation had to go through three committees before it could go to full council. The first committee met on Monday and it was deferred, but yesterday it passed easily through the remaining two committees (see above). If the members of the first committee will wave voting on it and send it to full council on Tuesday, it could be voted on and passed that evening.
Is Gaffney a member of the committee that deferred it?
I was told by a planning department staff member that Gaffney IS on the committee that deferred the legislation. However, he apparently did not show up for Monday's meeting. Nice that he's going to waive committee's vote but it would have been better to have seen him actively supporting the ordinance.
Quote from: avs on August 03, 2011, 07:10:16 AM
Can you post, or is it posted somewhere, specifically what it says?
this link should take you where you need to go:
http://cityclts.coj.net/coj/COJBillList.asp?Bill=2011-0408
also see: http://jacksonville.com/news/metro/2011-08-04/story/mothballing-crumbling-houses-could-save-jacksonville-homeowners?cid=hp-lede
Great article. However, the things being said in the TU's comment section are pretty insane.
seriously insane.
Quote from: thelakelander on August 05, 2011, 12:35:35 AM
Great article. However, the things being said in the TU's comment section are pretty insane.
Yes those are some insane comments and those are made by the conservative city in which we live in and it is those exact conservatives that voted in our wonderful conservative council that makes all of these decisions..blame eachother for this bs....we have the most conservative council in the south and noone is challenging them....they..our council are the ones to blame for most of the bs in our city...picket thier house for a while and maybe they'll think about their decisions more.
Dear lord, some of those people just bitch and moan about anything. Maybe someone should introduce a bill that cedes everything west of Cassat to clay county, they'd probably like that.
^^^I don't read the crap that people write. They should mind their own business. Mothballing is not a burden on the taxpayer and will likely HELP the city in many financial facets.
SOS is certainly the neighborhood face behind mothballing. However, without Bill Killingsworth's directive to write the legislation, and without Lisa Sheppard who tirelessly wrote the 30 page doc., without the support of Joel McEachin, Autumn Martinage, Samantha Paull, and Jason Teal mothballing would have just been a pie in the sky dream. They were the worker bees who believed in mothballing and spent their time making this happen for the good of our historic neighborhoods.
Truly the staff at HPC took us seriously and (I hope) appreciated the vote of confidence from a group of "gung-ho" slightly over bearing, neighborhood group of advocates.
PASSED!
In the end Dr. Gaffney strongly supported this. He said that he is very glad that this is one item that the neighborhood can agree on. (I think he whispered 'thank the Lord' under his breath, but not really sure).
They reduced the amount of mothballing time from five years to three years -- however, that is renewable if certain conditions are reached. A bit of disappointment given the amount of work it takes to restore a house, but not too bad and a logical compromise.
Schellenbrg was the only one who voted against. He felt it gives those who live in historic districts an unfair advantage.
SAMBA, SHEC and Preservation SOS all were there to speak on behalf of mothballing.
Its passing is the most hopeful thing to happen to this neigbhorhood in years, in my humble opinion. It also makes Springfield not just the problem child of the historic districts, but the leader of innovative ways to accomplish preservation in a challenging environment!
Johannes.
Yes. Johannes. And the other core folk and avid supporters of Preservation SOS.
Thanks Stephen for your kind words.
But truly, the workers behind this legislation deserve the credit:
Bill Killingsworth listened to SOS and moved forward with writing the legislation. I remember the phone call from Bill. I remember crying. Seriously. I was beyond estatic. I thought this would take years. It only took one. ONE!
Lisa wrote the legislation with the support of Joel, Autumn, and Sam. She worked her ass off doing this.
Jason supported the legislation through-out its process and rallied the troops to make this pass. In the end he became the voice behind mothballing.
These folks made it happen. Truly. The work they did to support mothballing legislation is remarkable. I am grateful they too care about Springfield and our other historic districts.
Kudos to the council for it's passage. Gaffney spoke twice, stating that "mothballing was proactive and that Springfield was a beautiful area and we needed to protect it." Kudos to the council members who continually spoke in favor about supporting this legislation. Last on the agenda of a 4 hour grueling meeting was well worth the night in council chambers. Gaffney and other council members were bid farewell by hugs from us and great big thanks, yes, literally.
What a great night for our old homes.
Whoooooooo Hooooooooo !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Whoooooooo Hooooooooo
and Hailing for speaking and putting up with us :) (in particular with Nicole)
Hailing was great last night.
Take the credit, guys! You earned it. Your passion and determination won the day! We are all so proud of you! Your names should be on a plaque in front of every home that survives from here on out!
QuoteCity Council backs 'mothballing' bill for Jacksonville historic districts
By Steve Patterson
http://m.jacksonville.com/opinion/blog/403455/steve-patterson/2011-08-09/city-council-backs-mothballing-bill-jacksonville
Quote from: Springfield Chicken on August 10, 2011, 12:50:15 PM
Take the credit, guys! You earned it. Your passion and determination won the day! We are all so proud of you! Your names should be on a plaque in front of every home that survives from here on out!
SG, just how many boorrriiinnngggg meetings did you attend and show your support? Including the initial meeting with Dr. Gaffney? You are there too sister.
So I heard a rumor through the grapevine (I was otherwise occupied and couldn't attend the meeting) that certain SPARbarians who'd been claiming support for the mothballing proposal as evidence of their newfound good behavior threw a fit over the final wording and tried to sink it by withdrawing their support at the last minute? Is there truth to this?
Don't know about that, but nobody from spar attended or spoke.... ::)
Quote from: Springfielder on August 10, 2011, 06:05:42 PM
Don't know about that, but nobody from spar attended or spoke.... ::)
No members of SPAR attended, or the organization itself did not formally send a representative?
I don't kow what John Snyder may have said. The concern expressed at the council meeting last night about the 450 number centered around the accuracy of that number, and that if it was accurate, could it endanger Springfield's historic designation status.
In the end, it was removed. Actually, it had been removed before it was brought up. The speaker just didn't know it had been. Although the number is important, it wasn't needed for the legislation to pass.
I have to say though, it came from our historic preservation office. Although I don't know all of the process that was used, I know they compared maps, and really did their homework. The number was well-researched.
However, let's not sweat it right now. It passed. It's a first step. And it won't be successful unless it's used. So we need to go get people enrolled in the program.
Well said Debbie. Whatever the number is, it is too big. If it is 350 or 450. But it was good to remove it as a piece of important legislation like this should not be stopped for it. Having 18 houses per year demolished is indeed plausible. We lost 12 structures last year, 2 of which where not strictly in the Springfield historic overlay. The problem is to find good numbers. There isn't always a COA involved, or an HPC decision. For example many of the houses we lost due to fire are demolished within a week of the fire. How many of these could have been saved is also a question I can't answer (and I don't think anybody can).
Lets not get hung up at numbers, but lets hang some boards on houses that need our energy more.
Quote from: sheclown on August 09, 2011, 09:27:46 PM
PASSED!
Congratulations! You all Made it Happen legislatively.
(http://i860.photobucket.com/albums/ab165/sheclown/Rudat/2011-08-17-1224-51-1.jpg)
KEY:
vacant lots are hatched
abandoned houses are checked
no mark means a viable house was sitting on it.
This survey, the R/UDAT was done in late 1985 a little over a year before the neighborhood was declared a historic district. It is easy enough to see for one's self the devastation which has occurred over the last 25 years.
Find your block and compare. Post your results here if you'd like.
wow, in 1985 my block (the infamous BP block) had all viable houses on it. Now it has (I hope I counted correctly): 7 empty houses and 2 vacant lots. That doesn't count the commercial on the back of my block, which is not in the historic district. It has 1 empty building and 2 torn down buildings, and of course, the BP.
avs. do you have any idea when the enclave on your alley was demolished?
No I don't. The couple who owns the commercial property behind mine told me about it. The wife apparently grew up in the house next door to me (Reggie's house now). She said she remembered them from when she was young. At some point, she and her husband owned the only one left, that faces the alley behind Reggie's house. It was joined with their commercial property and zoned commercial. Mark and I purchased the square parcel with the alley house on it several years ago and joined it with our property and had it zoned Residential again.
The couple are probably in the 80's now. But when she told us that it made sense to us because any where you dig in our yard if you go down far enough you will hit concrete slabs. There was a 1 car garage in our yard when we bought the house too. It was collapsing so we tore it down. It looked like it was built in the 40's or 50's. So I would guess the enclave was torn down before the garage was built.
I was told at some point that our house was the first on the block here, built in 1905. So maybe they were erected shortly after as this block developed and torn down 20 - 40 years later?
Looks like a lot of missing hatching on Ionia?
This map is from 1985, if it were updated to show today's abandoned homes and vacant lots Ionia would have a lot of hatching. Gloria, can you number each block and each of us take 5-6 and create an updated map?
That would be amazing. Let's do it
We've kinda sorta already done this? Uptown was taking lots of pics, myself, others and matching them to the plat map.
Well at least we started I meant to say.
This is the info that was posted in October of 2010. I believe I complied it from what you and others came up with. I don't know of anymore info being collected but for these four streets.? This data suggests that between 1985 and 2010, 79 houses were demolished on only four streets.
QuoteIonia Street ... 1985 ... 2010
Number of lots ... 80 ... 80
Number of abandoned houses ... 0 ... Est. 9
Number of vacant lots ... 8 ... 31
Percentage of houses lost prior to 1985 - 10%
Percentage of houses lost since 1985 - 32% - or now 39% of housing stock is gone.
So, if we assume that Ionia was 100% built out by 1920, it lost 10% of it's houses in the first 65 years, including about ten years of the worst history of Springfield for having crime, drugs and flop houses of all sorts and then it took only the next 25 years, about 10 of which were the most prosperous in Springfield in many decades, to lose an additional 32% of it's housing stock. Meaning, we lost fewer houses prior to being a protected historic district than we have with those protections in place. While some were of course due to things like fire, how many were due to social reasons rather than the house itself? How many have we lost unnecessarily due to "demolition by reckless policy?"
Interesting note - since this was done three more houses have been lost on Ionia. Two from fire and one just demolition? (And note that fire losses were often also "in the system" and on track to be demolished by MCCD anyway.) That is a 4% jump in less than a year! And if the info in the 1997/1998 study is correct (60 total houses demolished between 1985 and 1997) then most of the Ionia Street losses probably had to occur in the past 14 years!Quote… I looked at three more streets . The information I am quoting from is found on this forum as well as metro Jacksonville and the data I am quoting from 1985 comes from the R/UDAT study, which is the study that was used to apply for Historic Status.
Laura Street - This information came from a resident who physically counted the empties and we also count the in-fill newer than 1985 as an empty lot as it represents a lost house.
Total empty lots 1985 - 13 Total Empty lots 2010 - 29 - a 120% increase in empty lots since Historic Designation.
Walnut Street - There seems to be a question of whether there are 136 total lots or 131. We used the 136 as it was the number used in 1985.
Walnut Street ... 1985 ... 2010
Number of lots ... 136 ... 136
Number of vacant lots ... 7 ... 39
Percentage of houses lost prior to 1985 - 5%
Percentage of houses lost since 1985 - 24% - or now 29% of housing stock is gone
Carmen Street - some may not even know of this two block long street nor realize that the entire two blocks are indeed within the historic district. It is hard to tell what is residential and what is not as this street is on the fringe of the historic district sitting between normal residential and what is often called the warehouse district. The information below is my best guess based on available data.
Number of empty lots 1985 - 11
Number of empty lots 2010 - 19
Estimated total number of lots - 23
This means that the percentage of empty lots in 1985 was 47 % and by 2010 we had lost another 35%.
In fact, this street has lost all of its housing stock. It was zoned light industrial in about 2000 and what few structures remain are commercial and industrial buildings.
Quote from: iloveionia on August 18, 2011, 08:18:23 PM
Well at least we started I meant to say.
and now, maybe, is a good time to finish. I'd like to compare the R/udat map to a current one.
We have an excellent "thingy" available on iPhones which will help with any survey done. You simply stand in front of a house and click a photo which becomes part of the survey, answer a few questions as to the condition of the house, and it becomes part of the survey.
Any count in Springfield should begin and end with movedsouth's wonderful iPhone page...
http://www.metrojacksonville.com/forum/index.php?topic=11395.0
avs, let's do your block together! Whaddya say?
actually I was thinking the thingy could be a bit more better for the survey, but I could probably get a better thingy done. If you have any feedback as to how to improve it, let me know before you do too many blocks ;-)
Okay, Movedsouth, if it isn't a "app", what is it (I mean, other than a thingy)?